Is a Greek-Bulgarian alliance more natural than Greek-Serbian alliance?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I will never understand why the ties between us was precisely that the Greeks had to align with Serbians to divide Macedonia and shaft us as a result. This alliance I actually view as unnatural and unholy because weak Serbia actually offered very little compared to the much more numerous and militarily powerful Bulgaria.

It is despicable that our ties had to break down so badly especially in the Church dispute between us and the previously on-going dispute over who should control Macedonia. I am very sure we were capable of reaching an amicable deal that would have had satisfied both sides without considering an unholy alliance with Serbia, and the prime minister that created Macedonism and as a consequence continues to haunt Greece today.

Not only that, but the sacrifice in relations, had terrible consequences for Greece in Greek Asia Minor. Greece was certainly unable to take on Turkey all by herself to retake Hellenic territories still occupied by Turks today. But if the ties between us had been good? If we had achieved somewhat close to San Stefano Bulgaria and we were allies? Keep in mind by 1913 even with much reduced territories we still had the most powerful land army on the Balkans that the Serbians could not even dream of matching.

You would have had our help in your fight against the Turkish menace terrorizing Hellenic land and people in Hellenic Asia Minor. And the Turks would have had been defeated with most certainty and Kemal sent to hiding in Ulaanbaatar or hung at a proper execution if he was caught.

Unfortunately, that did not happen, no alliance between Greeks and Bulgarians occurred and the result of that has been utterly devastating for both sides.

How devastating exactly?

For us, the Bulgarians;

- The loss of 700,000 ethnic Bulgarians in Vardarskaya Macedonia to Frankenstein Stojan Novakovic-created Macedonism
- Stojan Novakovic created Macedonism as a stepping stone for the ultimate Frankenstein Serbianization of ethnic Bulgarians in Macedonia. What methods did he use to achieve this? The funding of Serbofil Bulgarians who eventually recanted views like Krste Misirkov and the creation of the Association of Serbo(fil)-Macedonians(Bulgarians) who published ridiculous pieces of literature like Macedonian Voice
-A much diminished territory than could have been achieved if we had worked together and came to an amicable agreement that would have benefited both sides and ensured the strength of Bulgarian and Greek people in the region. Ex. Regions like South Morava would have been returned to Bulgaria following a decisive military victory over Serbia as a consequence of our alliance.
- An alliance between both sides were natural because we had the most powerful land army, and you, Hellenes, had the most powerful navy in the Balkans. Put one and one together? You get the most powerful land army and the most powerful navy. A perfect storm for us to decide our fates in the Balkans without Serbian or Turkish interference.

For Greeks;

- The Greek-Serbian alliance resulted in a much weakened Bulgaria; and Serbia was still pathetically weak in comparison to Bulgaria. We have had always had better soldiers and armies and in the 1885 war when we were still a very young state, defeated the Serbs quite embarrassingly that the Austrians had to threaten us to stop our march towards Belgrade.
- The failure to come to an agreement between us and form a powerful Balkan axis made impossible for you to have a powerful ally who could help you defeat the Turks and regain Hellenic territories and people who were living under Turkish yoke in Hellenic Asia Minor and Constantinople.
- Macedonism would have never occurred as a defeated Serbia would realize that such ideology is impossible in firmly-controlled Bulgarian Vardarskaya Macedonia whose ethnic Bulgarians would be repudiated at any interference by repulsive Serbs who try to erase our ethnic consciousness for a Frankenstein Serbian one.

[Trun]

Greeks were fucking hypocrites.

[legolasbozo]

greeks has dignity, why they should care with you? İf you need money, and put some patrol to your Turkish borders. So you can get bribe and make your economy better.

[poiuytrewq0987]

greeks has dignity, why they should care with you? İf you need money, and put some patrol to your Turkish borders. So you can get bribe and make your economy better.

This doesn't concern you one bit.

[legolasbozo]

This doesn't concern you one bit.

sorry but i have some greco-anatolian roots

[Turkophagos]

When Bulgarian nationalists realise that St Stefan treaty is history and that they need a more down-to-earth kind of nationalism (like f.e. manage to maintain their current lands since there's the danger to be the first modern european nation to disappear because of demographics) they are most welcome to join a serbia-romania-bulgaria-greece alliance. As for Malakadonia, they can split it with Serbia so everybody is happy, including Greeks.

[Incal]

As for Malakadonia, they can split it with Serbia so everybody is happy, including Greeks.

LMAO!

[Novi Pazar]

Thraex, the great Greek people made the RIGHT choice, you cannot deny this. Unfortunately, the Bulgarian Exarchos (1872 - 1912) and other powers at the time used the Bulgars to influence the Ex-Serbian Fyromians for their own INTERESTS! The Rutherian *Venelin* aroused the dead Bulgarian people with his fantastic fairy tales, whom Rakovski and Verkovic expanded upon, like the mythical Veda Slovena or other stupidities like Botsaris, Karaiskis, Kanaris, Miaulis etc...were pure Bulgars LMAO

PS Please save us from your dead Bulgarian propaganda pieces!

[Linet]

No

[Linet]

Ok, i ll try to be serious (i said try, dont take it for granted ).

The problem i believe is big and small at the same time.
Is big because it seems that the relationship of the two countries never really gets good and small because the reasons for this dislike could be fixed, if some effort was put to it.
Greeks do not dislike Bulgarians, if we did, that would be the lucky case. Greeks dont respect Bulgarians. The lack of respect i think is alot worse than dislike since is close to pity. When someone says he is Bulgarian you already feel sorry for him for the bad luck of his birth , you dont dislike him at all.

The reason is history. We consider Fyrom to be nothing else but Bulgarians in denial. Thats why many times we call it FyroB with B standing for Bulgaria.

First of all they use your heroes claiming them as theirs. They consider Samouel to be theirs and up to us, Samouel was the king-general of the Bulgarians (997-1014AD). When Samouel lived, there was no such thing as Slavomacedonians. Macedonians were Greeks, Samouel was Bulgarian and they were mortal enemies. So how can he be their hero if they are anything else but Bulgarians? I suppose i dont need you to give you the rest of the story since as i am sure you know it...

Second in the start of 1900 Bulgarians were trying to seize control over Macedonia in order to have access to the Aegean. For that they have slaughtered the Greek populations of Macedonia and were bringing people to inhabit into the Greek territory in order to secure rights to it.

The same happened. although, in less degree at the second world war when they sided with Axis.

So up to us, Bulgarians are the responsible for our crazy problem now with Fyrob. They have a Bulgarian population bitching for rights in our lands with no historical or blood relation to those lands.

To us Fyromians are not disliked they are....pitied in a very wrong way. I mean....we consider them really low, with no self esteem or self respect people that try to get some importance into the planet by stealing another nations history. I understand the need of them to feel like they have something. I understand that they have Albania next to them and also 30% of their country is Albanian so they need to feel different if they want to continue as a nation and so they desperately need a history to unite them. I understand that if they say they are Bulgarians you can always claim them so they dont want that either. But stealing the Greek history in order to create a base for their country and obbtain some feelign of nationality, just wont do.
But since we consider them Bulgarians, that reflects on you....and we cant like a nation we dont respect. Actually we cant like and we cant dislike either. For Greeks, Bulgaria just a exist...