Celtic Vs British

[McLean]

What does it actually mean to be "Celtic"? As far as I'm aware there is no distinct genetic group for "Celtic", it is largely a linguistic and cultural label and since the original Celtic tribes resided in mainland Europe would we not expect some genetic overlap between them if it truly was a genetic group?

From what I can tell, Celtic groups i.e. Irish, Scots, and Welsh can be identified simply because they became isolated and began to diverge resulting in small identifiable changes unique to their populations.

Is it the case that all populations on the British Isles are largely the same genetically? Originally seeded from the Bell-beaker people? Even the Anglo-Saxon tribes are largely much the same as "Celtic" tribes from mainland Europe too?

One distinction I've noticed being made is that Ireland seems to have more admixture from the Iberian peninsula than other populations? Other than that what does it actually mean to be British genetically (if we are following migration patterns, not within the last century of course)?

I'm just a Layman, but very interested to know the answers. Is there a current consensus?

[Leto]

The Neolithic British inhabitants were largely displaced by the Bronze Age invaders who were probably Indo-European speakers. The people that are now identified as Celts colonized the British Islands during the Iron Age, I guess sometime between 1,000 and 500 BC. And finally, the Anglo-Saxons came there from Western Europe sometime after 500 AD or so. That's all I know.

This is a good video:

[Sikeliot]

All of the British and Irish have more ancestry from people who once spoke Celtic languages on their islands, than from recent newcomers from continental Europe. Of the latter type of ancestry the English and Scottish do have more Germanic input than do the Irish and Welsh.

However, much of continental western and central Europe once did speak Celtic languages too, and now instead speak Romance or Germanic languages. So the linguistic lines do not neatly correspond to genes.

[Grace O'Malley]

Here's a breakdown of the Irish and British. This is from the Irish DNA Atlas.



West Scotland1 is basically the same as the Irish clusters. Irish, West Scots and Orcadians have a higher Norse component with the other Scots also having more than the English and Welsh. The Irish have the lowest of the German/Danish input whilst the English have the highest. On the PoBI they interpreted this German/Danish input as an Anglo-Saxon signal. S Wales III has the highest French and then the Irish. This French component is mostly comprised of NW French i.e. Breton. In the Irish DNA Atlas they have called this a Celtic signal. Also of interest in these studies is that they found the western seaboard in both Ireland and Britain have the most diversity whilst the eastern seaboards of both countries have been somewhat homogenised due to more mixing. This is especially true of the eastern coast of England and to a lesser degree Ireland. So yes there are more differences between the Celtic groups. This obviously makes sense because they are more separated and generally live in more isolated pockets.

[Grace O'Malley]

What does it actually mean to be "Celtic"? As far as I'm aware there is no distinct genetic group for "Celtic", it is largely a linguistic and cultural label and since the original Celtic tribes resided in mainland Europe would we not expect some genetic overlap between them if it truly was a genetic group?

From what I can tell, Celtic groups i.e. Irish, Scots, and Welsh can be identified simply because they became isolated and began to diverge resulting in small identifiable changes unique to their populations.

Is it the case that all populations on the British Isles are largely the same genetically? Originally seeded from the Bell-beaker people? Even the Anglo-Saxon tribes are largely much the same as "Celtic" tribes from mainland Europe too?

One distinction I've noticed being made is that Ireland seems to have more admixture from the Iberian peninsula than other populations? Other than that what does it actually mean to be British genetically (if we are following migration patterns, not within the last century of course)?

I'm just a Layman, but very interested to know the answers. Is there a current consensus?

I think the largest input into both Britain and Ireland were the Bell Beakers. British and Dutch Bell Beakers are largely indistinguishable. Although calling them "British" and "Dutch" is just to identify the lands they were found in. I do think that Irish, Scots and Welsh are very similar populations along with the English. Regarding a larger "Celtic" ethnicity I don't believe there is really such a thing but then all "Germanics" aren't the same either.

[Bobby Martnen]

Celtic = Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Manx, Cornish, and Breton people

[Fantomas]

Celtic = Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Manx, Cornish, and Breton people

Today they do speak English, so they're Germanic

[Bobby Martnen]

Today they do speak English, so they're Germanic

They're the 6 Celtic nations, even if they've been linguistically shifted.

[Fantomas]

They're the 6 Celtic nations, even if they've been linguistically shifted.

Half of Europe was shifted linguistically as well. So language is not the adequate criterion for topicstarter

[Grace O'Malley]

Today they do speak English, so they're Germanic

I think they can be called "Insular Celtic" which has a very specific meaning. They didn't originally speak a Germanic language like the Anglo-Saxons and it is only in recent historic times that they don't speak Celtic in the majority. There are still populations in Ireland, Wales and the Western Isles of Scotland that have spoken Celtic languages uninterrupted to the present day. In both Wales and Ireland the Celtic languages are still official languages of the countries.

All Americans speak a Germanic language but they aren't all "Germanic".