R1b1c (R-V88) and R1b1a1 (R-M73) were they spread by Caucasians

[ButlerKing]

Haplogroup R1b.

[Sky earth]

I think that y-DNA Haplogroups are heavily addicted to mtDNA Haplogroups. Bashkirs are almost half Mongoloid/Caucasoid on the maternal side and so it's their pheontype. Another theory could be that few Caucasoid Bashkir men mixed with many Mongoloid women in this area. mtDNA Haplogroups correlate always better with phenotypes than y-DNA Haplogroups. The same goes for the Hausa people with their high frequent of R1b in Africa.

[Damião de Góis]

As i was saying, "R1b" is very vague, so the map above is very misleading. My haplogroup is limited to:

[ButlerKing]

I think that y-DNA Haplogroups are heavily addicted to mtDNA Haplogroups. Bashkirs are almost half Mongoloid/Caucasoid on the maternal side and so it's their pheontype. Another theory could be that few Caucasoid Bashkir men mixed with many Mongoloid women in this area. mtDNA Haplogroups correlate always better with phenotypes than y-DNA Haplogroups. The same goes for the Hausa people with their high frequent of R1b in Africa.

Intermixture happened very long ago, they are theorized to be related with Andronovo people of Kazakhstan and Siberians Mongoloid.

Yes they have about 33% Mongoloid mtDNA on average in some region 45% they also 16% Mongoloid Y-DNA haplogroup N don't know if it's Yakuts or Finno ugric, and if we add Q a total of 19%, this happenned long before the introduction of C3 and O3. So basically Baskhir Tatar was not effected by Mongol invasion.

As for the Hausu people with R-V88, I don't get why they have such high frequencies while Caucasian population at such low frequencies

[ButlerKing]

Here are Bashkir Tatar genetics but it depends on some regions.


http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/bashkirs.html

R1b1b2 (R1b1b2-M269) and 13.2% to R1b1b1. R1a1 (R-SRY10831.2) was found among 26.3%, and 17% had N1c (N1c-Tat). Less common were haplogroups like E-M35, C-M48, G-P15, L-M20, N-P43, O-M175,

Here are only some regions of Baskhorstan, not all the location was sampled in this study.

[ButlerKing]

As i was saying, "R1b" is very vague, so the map above is very misleading. My haplogroup is limited to:

Trust me, I know.

I was referring to the origin of my types of R1b not yours.

[Sky earth]

Intermixture happened very long ago, they are theorized to be related with Andronovo people of Kazakhstan and Siberians Mopngoloid.

Yes they have about 33% Mongoloid mtDNA on average in some region 45% they also 16% Mongoloid Y-DNA haplogroup Q, and if N in Bashkir Tatars is from Yakuts than a total of 19%, this happenned long before the introduction of C3 and O3. So basically Baskhir Tatar was not effected by Mongol invasion.

As for the Hausu people with R-V88, I don't get why they have such high frequencies while Caucasian population at such low frequencies

I know that Bashkirs were not genetically effected by the Mongol invasion like the Chuvashs, Tatars and Finno-Ugrians in this area. Ancient cultures in Siberia show genetically almost always Caucasian men who mixed with Eurasian women.

[ButlerKing]

I know that Bashkirs were not genetically effected by the Mongol invasion like the Chuvashs, Tatars and Finno-Ugrians in this area. Ancient cultures in Siberia show genetically almost always Caucasian men who mixed with Eurasian women.

That's what I mean, the mixture properly happened during Neolithic times where there was only a few hundred people, just like how European Jews are descended from only 4 women or how the Finns paternal marker are only descendants of few Haplogroup N from Eastern Siberia. Later these hybrids intermarried among themselves and created this ridiculously high genetic drift.


Here are Tatars haplogroup.

Татары. Объем выборки- 450.

N1b- 21,0
R1a- 19,0
I1- 13,2
N1c- 13,0
J2- 8,1
R1b1b2- 6,0
E1b1a- 4,0
O- 3,0
I2a- 2,8
C- 2,7
I2b- 1,8
G- 1,0
J1- 1,0
L- 1,0
Q- 1,0
T- 1,0

Rootsi 2007, Tambets 2004, Balanovsky in prep., Wells 2001

Источник: "Балановский О.П., Пшеничнов А.С., Сычев Р.С., Евсеева И.В., Балановская Е.В. Y-base: частоты гаплогрупп Y хромосомы у народов мира, 2010; www.genofond.ru"

[ButlerKing]

So it seems other Tatars have low frequencies of R1b

[Sky earth]

That's what I mean, the mixture properly happened during Neolithic times where there was only a few hundred people, just like how European Jews are descended from only 4 women or how the Finns paternal marker are only descendants of few Haplogroup N from Eastern Siberia. Later these hybrids intermarried among themselves and created this ridiculously high genetic drift.


Here are Tatars haplogroup.

Татары. Объем выборки- 450.

N1b- 21,0
R1a- 19,0
I1- 13,2
N1c- 13,0
J2- 8,1
R1b1b2- 6,0
E1b1a- 4,0
O- 3,0
I2a- 2,8
C- 2,7
I2b- 1,8
G- 1,0
J1- 1,0
L- 1,0
Q- 1,0
T- 1,0

Rootsi 2007, Tambets 2004, Balanovsky in prep., Wells 2001

Источник: "Балановский О.П., Пшеничнов А.С., Сычев Р.С., Евсеева И.В., Балановская Е.В. Y-base: частоты гаплогрупп Y хромосомы у народов мира, 2010; www.genofond.ru"

Wow I'm surprised that Tatars have so much N. I thought they were mostly R1a.
I have the mtDNA of Volga Tatars here and fits to their phenotype better

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten...65.short?rss=1