Genetically "Most" and "Least" Proto-Indo-European influenced IE speaking peoples in Europe

**Prisoner Of Ice** · 09-12-2013, 07:01 AM

As far as language goes that seems about right but honestly for phenotypes it just makes no sense. I am betting the solutrean in iberia are where r1b comes from and that r1a comes from east europe and has about the same borders as now for a long time (maybe formerly more).

I know the counterarguments, I just think they are wrong, being based on junk science of molecular clocks and and a couple ancient DNA samples from neolithic farmers that didn't turn out to be r1b. Whatever. There's just no way that the celts turned iberia into r1b, if anything more like the other way around.

**Swearengen** · 09-12-2013, 07:09 AM

Honestly who cares. Although I agree that they probably had a high west asian component.

and r1a in ukraine is ~50%.

**Grace O'Malley** · 09-12-2013, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Horatio

I mean phenotypically. And actually, i'm not including France either.

Could you please explain how the Irish are phenotypically different than the English, Scottish and Welsh?

**Smeagol** · 09-12-2013, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Alice

Could you please explain how the Irish are phenotypically different than the English, Scottish and Welsh?

English, and Scottish have much more of a Germanic influence.

**Prisoner Of Ice** · 09-12-2013, 08:38 PM

There's some pretty good nordic influence too especially in scottland, but there's at least a little in Ireland too.

**Roy** · 09-12-2013, 08:45 PM

Most: Eastern Europeans + Swedes
Least: Basques, Sardinians, South Italians

**Benacer** · 09-12-2013, 08:47 PM

Iberians are most likely among the least influenced.

**Grace O'Malley** · 09-13-2013, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Horatio

English, and Scottish have much more of a Germanic influence.

Is this Germanic influence noticeable in the phenotype? Britain and Ireland cluster together in every autosomal study I've seen. Also though the Irish are not Germanic they are more blue eyed than Britain. So what does it mean to be Germanic? I'm very interested if there are any differences between the Irish and British but it appears by dna analysis and phenotype they are not much different.

Genetic Differences Between 5 European Populations - Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Bulgaria and Portugal. Look at how similar the Irish and Scottish populations are. The Irish red lies under the Scottish green.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20616560

**Graham** · 09-13-2013, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Horatio

English, and Scottish have much more of a Germanic influence.

The difference isn't so clear cut. It's more South-East England is quite possibly different to Ireland, & they still will over-lap. England isn't 100% anglo-saxon.