Sicilian, Italian, and Greek 23andme AC Results (Speculative) and Haplogroups.

[Scholarios]

I'm surprised you are more impressed by that than that a few of them cluster with Cypriots outside of the "Europe" cluster

But yes it is very interesting. I wonder why. It must be something very ancient, because as far as I know, Catania does not have much Norman input.

There needs to be more knowledge on how obscure haplogroups groups come up in isolated populations. This seems to be a theme recently in our discussions of Mediterranean populations. First, there is the mundane historical.. i.e. a family of patrilineal Norman, Viking, Gothic descent for some reason moves to the other side of the island... ends up being very "fruitful" and produces few females and more males (this is extremely likely in medeival settings).

Then there is the biological explanations that are not that interesting for us: bottlenecks, mutations, genetic biases that favor male descendants etc.

But the Finnish one is weird.

[alfieb]

New RF match.



3/4 Sicilian from Palermo and Trapani
1/4 Polish

The Polish either all or nearly all shows up as Eastern European, which means we can consider just about everything else as Sicilian.

Odd that he would have Finnish, French/German, and British, but no Scandinavian; odd that his Balkan would be so high. I wonder if it's Arbereshe or Greek.

The Ashkenazi is small enough that it could be from his Polish side, but the Northern European component is too large for it to be (at least solely) from his 1/4 Polish. I would speculate that the SSA also has to be from his Sicilian ancestry. Why would a Pole have SSA admix?

Both his paternal and mitochondrial ancestors are Sicilian. Y-DNA is J2a, mtDNA HG is H8. Both are highly likely to be Middle Eastern in origin.

[Sikeliot]

He might have some Arbereshe ancestry since most of them, as far as I know, do live in Palermo. Could be Greek as well but that'd surprise me more.

The haplogroup doesn't surprise me though. J2 is common everywhere in Sicily.

What we need to remember is these results show deviation from the population mean. "Italian" on there is Sicilian Americans anyway, so these scores show how much people deviate from it.

[Sikeliot]

I wonder if he looks something like me, given his origins.

[alfieb]

No photo on 23andMe, and I don't facebook stalk.

mtDNA HG H8 is said to be extremely rare in Europe.

I had thought that "Italian" on global similarity was merely Southern Italian (including Sicilians), but "Italian" elsewhere on the site was for the entire country.

[Sikeliot]

No photo on 23andMe, and I don't facebook stalk.

mtDNA HG H8 is said to be extremely rare in Europe.

I had thought that "Italian" on global similarity was merely Southern Italian (including Sicilians), but "Italian" elsewhere on the site was for the entire country.

mtdna H8 is common in the Caucasus. It might support, as I always suggested, an Armenian-like origin for Elymians.

"Italian" on 23andme means southerners. So this guy does have the usual mixtures that southerners have (West Asian/Neolithic/etc) but it is hidden in the Italian cluster because the reference population is far southerners.

What is the highest French + German score (assuming it's the one indicative of Normans) that you have seen?

[alfieb]

Only F+G? The half-English/half-Palermitan 12% you posted.

But of full-blooded Sicilians, I'd imagine it's the 10.3% I posted.

I stopped sharing with non-relative finder people when I gave my grandmother access to my account, and that was before ancestry composition was added.

[Peyrol]

So, ''italian'' in 23and me is only a term for sicilian and calabrese?

Cool, i'd like to see my results then...maybe next winter i'll get the test.

[alfieb]

So, ''italian'' in 23and me is only a term for sicilian and calabrese?

Cool, i'd like to see my results then...maybe next winter i'll get the test.

One of my Italian relatives on 23andMe is mostly Udinese, and he's over 95% Italian on ancestry composition. I don't know where it said that Sicilians and Calabrians were only used for the Italian source population, but I don't buy it.

[Sikeliot]

One of my Italian relatives on 23andMe is mostly Udinese, and he's over 95% Italian on ancestry composition. I don't know where it said that Sicilians and Calabrians were only used for the Italian source population, but I don't buy it.

Maybe Italians from every region were used then, so that no matter where you come from in Italy, you will get a high percent of it?

The most telling thing is Global Similarity. The 10% German + French guy, where does he plot on Global Similarity?

I was told it was Italian Americans as the reference population, i.e. Sicilian and Calabrese.