Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Admixture between Ashkenazi Jews and Central Europeans

  1. #1
    Who Dares Wins
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Online
    05-27-2010 @ 06:17 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Russian
    Country
    Russia
    Gender
    Posts
    1,126
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5
    Given: 0

    0 Not allowed!

    Default Admixture between Ashkenazi Jews and Central Europeans

    Admixture between Ashkenazi Jews and Central Europeans
    When distinct populations inhabit the same geographic space, culture often acts to restrict random mating in our species, while at the same preventing complete genetic privacy. The residency across Central Europe by the Ashkenazi Jews over the last thousand years is such a case. HLA typing from bone marrow donor registries in Israel, Poland and Germany were utilized to measure admixture between central European host populations and Ashkenazim. Inferred high resolution HLA A-B-DRB1 haplotype frequencies were generated from each population. A total of 1,676 Polishorigin- Ashkenazim and 13,556 Polish haplotypes were analyzed, along with a similar sample of ~5 million German haplotypes. The informativeness of HLA haplotypes is shown by the A-B-DRB1 haplotype 0101-0801-0301, the most common haplotype found in northern Europe. HLA B*0801 bearing haplotypes are present in the Near East, but those B*0801 haplotypes carry the HLA C allele Cw*0702 instead of the Cw*0701 found in 0101-0801- 0301. The 100 most common haplotypes constituted 53% of the total Ashkenazi, and 45% of the Polish, and 43% of the German samples, reflecting the sizeable total fraction of very rare haplotypes familiar in population samples of the diverse HLA system. The most common Ashkenazi haplotype had a frequency of 6.14% (n = 102.9) and the 100th haplotype was present at 0.29% (n = 4.86). Comparable values for the Polish sample were 5.83% (n = 790.3) and 0.13% (n = 17.6), respectively. Haplotypes from one population compared to those haplotypes in a second could be classified into three categories: less frequent, statistically identical or more frequent. In the graph of the ordered 100 Polish haplotypes, the less frequent Ashkenazi haplotypes supply a possible signature of admixture from the Poles into the Polish Ashkenazim, while the haplotypes more frequent in Ashkenazim than Poles are candidates for movement of genes from the Ashkenazim to the Poles. The averaged frequency differences between these categories give an indication of population admixture. The analysis showed that 1.8% of Polish haplotypes may be of Ashkenazi origin and 0.6% of Ashkenazi of Polish origin. The sample from Germany, in which the initial generations of Polish- Ashkenazi history was spent, was useful in demonstrating consistency of haplotype frequencies by rank order. The results show clear evidence of admixture occurring in both directions between two largely HLA-distinct populations.

  2. #2
    Benevolent Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Fortis in Arduis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    03-17-2018 @ 02:18 PM
    Location
    Somerset
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celto-Germanic
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    England, Scotland, Pan-Germania and Spanish Gypsies (Gitanos)
    Country
    England
    Region
    England
    Taxonomy
    sub-nordic
    Politics
    Co-operative Economics, Direct Democracy
    Hero
    The Absolute
    Religion
    Advaita Vedānta
    Age
    36
    Gender
    Posts
    7,653
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,469
    Given: 8,126

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hors View Post
    Admixture between Ashkenazi Jews and Central Europeans
    When distinct populations inhabit the same geographic space, culture often acts to restrict random mating in our species, while at the same preventing complete genetic privacy. The residency across Central Europe by the Ashkenazi Jews over the last thousand years is such a case. HLA typing from bone marrow donor registries in Israel, Poland and Germany were utilized to measure admixture between central European host populations and Ashkenazim. Inferred high resolution HLA A-B-DRB1 haplotype frequencies were generated from each population. A total of 1,676 Polishorigin- Ashkenazim and 13,556 Polish haplotypes were analyzed, along with a similar sample of ~5 million German haplotypes. The informativeness of HLA haplotypes is shown by the A-B-DRB1 haplotype 0101-0801-0301, the most common haplotype found in northern Europe. HLA B*0801 bearing haplotypes are present in the Near East, but those B*0801 haplotypes carry the HLA C allele Cw*0702 instead of the Cw*0701 found in 0101-0801- 0301. The 100 most common haplotypes constituted 53% of the total Ashkenazi, and 45% of the Polish, and 43% of the German samples, reflecting the sizeable total fraction of very rare haplotypes familiar in population samples of the diverse HLA system. The most common Ashkenazi haplotype had a frequency of 6.14% (n = 102.9) and the 100th haplotype was present at 0.29% (n = 4.86). Comparable values for the Polish sample were 5.83% (n = 790.3) and 0.13% (n = 17.6), respectively. Haplotypes from one population compared to those haplotypes in a second could be classified into three categories: less frequent, statistically identical or more frequent. In the graph of the ordered 100 Polish haplotypes, the less frequent Ashkenazi haplotypes supply a possible signature of admixture from the Poles into the Polish Ashkenazim, while the haplotypes more frequent in Ashkenazim than Poles are candidates for movement of genes from the Ashkenazim to the Poles. The averaged frequency differences between these categories give an indication of population admixture. The analysis showed that 1.8% of Polish haplotypes may be of Ashkenazi origin and 0.6% of Ashkenazi of Polish origin. The sample from Germany, in which the initial generations of Polish- Ashkenazi history was spent, was useful in demonstrating consistency of haplotype frequencies by rank order. The results show clear evidence of admixture occurring in both directions between two largely HLA-distinct populations.
    Rivetting.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Online
    11-04-2018 @ 05:43 PM
    Location
    Miami
    Ethnicity
    Cuban
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Florida
    Hero
    Tony Montana
    Gender
    Posts
    22,745
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 9,295
    Given: 26,310

    1 Not allowed!

    Default


  4. #4
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 08:34 PM
    Location
    Pole position
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Country
    Poland
    Y-DNA
    R1b
    mtDNA
    W6a
    Gender
    Posts
    21,462
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20,923
    Given: 18,998

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Jews lived mostly in towns and I checked how East Slavic were towns in Eastern Poland (now Ukraine/Belarus/Lithuania) before WW2. It turns out that there was not a single town over 15,000 inhabitants with majority East Slavic or/and Lithuanian population. All towns were >50% Polish-Jewish inhabited, so I suppose that any limited intermarriage between Jews and Christians in Eastern Poland before WW2 was mostly between Jews and Poles, rather than Non-Polish minorities.

    Percent of Polish and Jewish population in towns over 15,000 inhabitants in Former Eastern Poland (1931 census):

    Town / Population / Polish-speaking % (number) / Yiddish % (number) / Hebrew % (number) ===> Total % of Poles & Jews

    Lwów (Lviv) / 312231 / 63.5% (198,212) / 21.6% (67,520) / 2.5% (7,796) ===> 88%
    Wilno (Vilnius) / 195071 / 65.9% (128,628) / 24.4% (47,523) / 3.6% (7,073) ===> 94%
    Stanisławów (Ivano-Frankivsk) / 59960 / 43.7% (26,187) / 34.4% (20,651) / 3.8% (2,293) ===> 82%
    Grodno (Grodno) / 49669 / 47.2% (23,458) / 39.7% (19,717) / 2.4% (1,214) ===> 89%
    Brześć (Brest-Litovsk) / 48385 / 42.6% (20,595) / 39.3% (19,032) / 4.7% (2,283) ===> 87%
    Borysław (Boryslav) / 41496 / 55.3% (22,967) / 24.4% (10,139) / 1% (399) ===> 81%
    Równe (Rivne) / 40612 / 27.5% (11,173) / 50.8% (20,635) / 4.7% (1,922) ===> 83%
    Tarnopol (Ternopil) / 35644 / 77.7% (27,712) / 11.6% (4,130) / 2.4% (872) ===> 92%
    Łuck (Lutsk) / 35554 / 31.9% (11,326) / 46.3% (16,477) / 2.2% (790) ===> 80%
    Kołomyja (Kolomyya) / 33788 / 65% (21,969) / 19.3% (6,506) / 0.9% (292) ===> 85%
    Drohobycz (Drohobych)/ 32261 / 58.4% (18,840) / 23.5% (7,589) / 1.2% (398) ===> 83%
    Pińsk (Pinsk) / 31912 / 23% (7,346) / 50.3% (16,053) / 12.9% (4,128) ===> 86%
    Stryj (Stryi) / 30491 / 42.3% (12,897) / 28.5% (8,691) / 2.9% (870) ===> 74%
    Kowel (Kovel) / 27677 / 37.2% (10,295) / 39.1% (10,821) / 7.1% (1,965) ===> 83%
    Włodzimierz (Vladimir) / 24591 / 39.1% (9,616) / 35.1% (8,623) / 8.1% (1,988) ===> 82%
    Baranowicze (Baranavichy) / 22818 / 42.8% (9,758) / 38.4% (8,754) / 2.9% (669) ===> 84%
    Sambor (Sambir)/ 21923 / 61.9% (13,575) / 22.5% (4,942) / 1.7% (383) ===> 86%
    Krzemieniec (Kremenets) / 19877 / 15.6% (3,108) / 34.7% (6,904) / 1.7% (341) ===> 52%
    Lida (Lida)/ 19326 / 63.3% (12,239) / 24.6% (4,760) / 8% (1,540) ===> 96%
    Czortków (Chortkiv) / 19038 / 55.2% (10,504) / 22.4% (4,274) / 3.1% (586) ===> 81%
    Brody (Brody) / 17905 / 44.9% (8,031) / 34% (6,085) / 1% (181) ===> 80%
    Słonim (Slonim) / 16251 / 52% (8,452) / 36.5% (5,927) / 4.7% (756) ===> 93%

    The only town in Former Eastern Poland with over 15,000 inhabitants that was close to being majority East Slavic, was Kremenets.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last Online
    09-24-2022 @ 05:26 AM
    Location
    Judea
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Homo-Judeas
    Ethnicity
    500% Judean
    Ancestry
    1000% Judean
    Country
    Antarctica
    Y-DNA
    Abraham
    mtDNA
    Sarah
    Taxonomy
    100% Judean
    Politics
    Judean
    Hero
    Moses
    Religion
    Judea-ism
    Relationship Status
    Happily married with 4 matriarchs
    Gender
    Posts
    2,636
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,348
    Given: 722

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Jews lived mostly in towns and I checked how East Slavic were towns in Eastern Poland (now Ukraine/Belarus/Lithuania) before WW2. It turns out that there was not a single town over 15,000 inhabitants with majority East Slavic or/and Lithuanian population. All towns were >50% Polish-Jewish inhabited, so I suppose that any limited intermarriage between Jews and Christians in Eastern Poland before WW2 was mostly between Jews and Poles, rather than Non-Polish minorities.

    Percent of Polish and Jewish population in towns over 15,000 inhabitants in Former Eastern Poland (1931 census):

    Town / Population / Polish-speaking % (number) / Yiddish % (number) / Hebrew % (number) ===> Total % of Poles & Jews

    Lwów (Lviv) / 312231 / 63.5% (198,212) / 21.6% (67,520) / 2.5% (7,796) ===> 88%
    Wilno (Vilnius) / 195071 / 65.9% (128,628) / 24.4% (47,523) / 3.6% (7,073) ===> 94%
    Stanisławów (Ivano-Frankivsk) / 59960 / 43.7% (26,187) / 34.4% (20,651) / 3.8% (2,293) ===> 82%
    Grodno (Grodno) / 49669 / 47.2% (23,458) / 39.7% (19,717) / 2.4% (1,214) ===> 89%
    Brześć (Brest-Litovsk) / 48385 / 42.6% (20,595) / 39.3% (19,032) / 4.7% (2,283) ===> 87%
    Borysław (Boryslav) / 41496 / 55.3% (22,967) / 24.4% (10,139) / 1% (399) ===> 81%
    Równe (Rivne) / 40612 / 27.5% (11,173) / 50.8% (20,635) / 4.7% (1,922) ===> 83%
    Tarnopol (Ternopil) / 35644 / 77.7% (27,712) / 11.6% (4,130) / 2.4% (872) ===> 92%
    Łuck (Lutsk) / 35554 / 31.9% (11,326) / 46.3% (16,477) / 2.2% (790) ===> 80%
    Kołomyja (Kolomyya) / 33788 / 65% (21,969) / 19.3% (6,506) / 0.9% (292) ===> 85%
    Drohobycz (Drohobych)/ 32261 / 58.4% (18,840) / 23.5% (7,589) / 1.2% (398) ===> 83%
    Pińsk (Pinsk) / 31912 / 23% (7,346) / 50.3% (16,053) / 12.9% (4,128) ===> 86%
    Stryj (Stryi) / 30491 / 42.3% (12,897) / 28.5% (8,691) / 2.9% (870) ===> 74%
    Kowel (Kovel) / 27677 / 37.2% (10,295) / 39.1% (10,821) / 7.1% (1,965) ===> 83%
    Włodzimierz (Vladimir) / 24591 / 39.1% (9,616) / 35.1% (8,623) / 8.1% (1,988) ===> 82%
    Baranowicze (Baranavichy) / 22818 / 42.8% (9,758) / 38.4% (8,754) / 2.9% (669) ===> 84%
    Sambor (Sambir)/ 21923 / 61.9% (13,575) / 22.5% (4,942) / 1.7% (383) ===> 86%
    Krzemieniec (Kremenets) / 19877 / 15.6% (3,108) / 34.7% (6,904) / 1.7% (341) ===> 52%
    Lida (Lida)/ 19326 / 63.3% (12,239) / 24.6% (4,760) / 8% (1,540) ===> 96%
    Czortków (Chortkiv) / 19038 / 55.2% (10,504) / 22.4% (4,274) / 3.1% (586) ===> 81%
    Brody (Brody) / 17905 / 44.9% (8,031) / 34% (6,085) / 1% (181) ===> 80%
    Słonim (Slonim) / 16251 / 52% (8,452) / 36.5% (5,927) / 4.7% (756) ===> 93%

    The only town in Former Eastern Poland with over 15,000 inhabitants that was close to being majority East Slavic, was Kremenets.
    Check more cities in Polesia. Intuitively, they would've been filled with Poleschuks. Also, does the distribution during the Second Polish Republic reflect the one during the Russian Empire and the Commonwealth? Either way, almost all of the intermarriage would've been during the Commonwealth period, if not earlier, with the presence of West and East Knaanic Jews.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2023
    Last Online
    09-05-2023 @ 04:41 PM
    Location
    LandOfNevermind
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Semitic
    Ethnicity
    Canaanite Mizrahi Jewish
    Ancestry
    Jewish, Phoenician, Canaanite, proto-Semitic
    Country
    Israel
    Region
    Kvarner
    Y-DNA
    The tribe of Judah
    mtDNA
    The tribe of Dan
    Taxonomy
    Armenized Gracile/East Med
    Politics
    Liberal
    Hero
    Moses, Noah, Stalin, SpongeBob, Jacob
    Religion
    Judaism
    Relationship Status
    In a relationship
    Age
    21
    Gender
    Posts
    372
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 116
    Given: 371

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Ashkenazim = half Mizrahim and half German/Russian
    Sephardim = half Mizrahim and half south European

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •