View Poll Results: Samurai

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  • They were Yayoi

    4 66.67%
  • They were Jomon

    2 33.33%
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Thread: Samurai society decent from Ainu? Yayoi or Jomon ( claimed by American anthropologist )

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    Default Samurai society decent from Ainu? Yayoi or Jomon ( claimed by American anthropologist )

    I've read tons of Ainu history. One must remember that it was the Japanese who conquered Jomon of North Japan 1500 years ago and than the Hokkaido of Ainu in 1868. It was the Japanese who called them " hairy barbarians". So it's possible that the Japanese who conquered the Ainu later become Samurai however it also claimed that Samurai started only around 700 AD.


    Supporting a Jomon origin.

    American anthropologist claimed that ancient Samurai were Jomon
    http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf065/sf065a01.htm

    Findings by American anthropologist C. Loring Brace, University of Michigan, will surely be controversial in race conscious Japan. The eye of the predicted storm will be the Ainu, a "racially different" group of some 18,000 people now living on the northern island of Hokkaido. Pure-blooded Ainu are easy to spot: they have lighter skin, more body hair, and higher-bridged noses than most Japanese. Most Japanese tend to look down on the Ainu.

    Brace has studied the skeletons of about 1,100 Japanese, Ainu, and other Asian ethnic groups and has concluded that the revered samurai of Japan are actually descendants of the Ainu, not of the Yayoi from whom most modern Japanese are descended. In fact, Brace threw more fuel on the fire with:

    "Dr. Brace said this interpretation also explains why the facial features of the Japanese ruling class are so often unlike those of typical modern Japanese. The Ainu-related samurai achieved such power and prestige in medieval Japan that they intermarried with royality and nobility, passing on Jomon-Ainu blood in the upper classes, while other Japanese were primarily descended from the Yoyoi."
    The reactions of Japanese scientists have been muted so. One Japanese anthropologist did say to Brace," I hope you are wrong."

    The Ainu and their origin have always been rather mysterious, with some people claiming that the Ainu are really Caucasian or proto-Caucasian - in other words, "white." At present, Brace's study denies this interpretation.

    (Wilford, John Noble; "Exalted Warriors, Humble Roots," New York Times, June 6, 1989. Cr. J. Covey.)

    Supporting a Yayoi origin

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai

    Wikipedia claimed the Idea of Samurai started only around 700 AD.

    Following the Battle of Hakusukinoe against Tang China and Silla in 663 AD that led to a Japanese retreat from Korean affairs, Japan underwent widespread reform. One of the most important was that of the Taika Reform, issued by Prince Naka no Ōe (Emperor Tenji) in 646 AD. This edict allowed the Japanese aristocracy to adopt the Tang Dynasty political structure, bureaucracy, culture, religion, and philosophy.[3] As part of the Taihō Code, of 702 AD, and the later Yōrō Code,[4] the population was required to report regularly for census, a precursor for national conscription. With an understanding of how the population was distributed, Emperor Mommu introduced a law whereby 1 in 3–4 adult males was drafted into the national military. These soldiers were required to supply their own weapons, and in return were exempted from duties and taxes.[3] This was one of the first attempts by the Imperial government to form an organized army modeled after the Chinese system. It was called "Gundan-Sei" (軍団制) by later historians and is believed to have been short-lived.[citation needed]

    ALSO



    The Ainu race (Aino jinshu) is an inferior race, while our Japanese race (naichi jinshu) is a superior race. The superior race say that the inferior Ainu race will naturally die out
    Last edited by ButlerKing; 05-20-2013 at 07:06 PM.

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    Heihachiro black/white picture



    Heichachiro in the flesh




    Hirohito in the painting


    Hirohito in the flesh

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    The Ainu were not Caucasian and that theory has been completely abandoned. In fact, the Ainu are genetically more distant from Caucasians than Mongoloids themselves. Some anthropologists describe them as Australoid but that claim has not been substantiated enough either.

    In any case, they have been facing harsh discrimination in Japan for a long time and are social outcasts.

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    Painting of the last Samurai Saigo Takamori



    His original face

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABest View Post
    The Ainu were not caucasian and that theory has been completely abandoned. In fact, the Ainu are genetically more distant from Caucasians than Mongoloids themselves. Some anthropologists describe them as Australoid but that claim has not been substantiated enough either.

    In any case, they have been facing harsh discrimination in Japan for a long time and are social outcasts.
    I know Ainu are not Caucasian I also know Ainu are not Australoid.

    What I'm trying to say is the Samurai upper class, were they descended from Jomon or Yayoi. I have a feeling it's Yayoi, it doesn't make sense that Ainu were around in mainland Japan in 700 AD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ButlerKing View Post
    I know Ainu are not Caucasian I also Ainu are not Australoid.

    What I'm trying to say is the Samurai upper class, were they descended from Jomon or Yayoi.
    I have read they were mostly Ainu. They were still harshly discriminated against by the Japanese society anyway.

    And I agree, they are not Australoid. But some people have tried to present them as such, unsuccessfully.

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    Oops, I voted Yayoi accidentally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABest View Post
    I have read they were mostly Ainu. They were still harshly discriminated against by the Japanese society anyway.

    And I agree, they are not Australoid. But some people have tried to present them as such, unsuccessfully.
    The thing I don't get is if Samurai were mostly Ainu why do Japanese discriminate Ainu and call them hairy barbarians? Ainu throughout Japanese history had been treated as uncivilized and inferior.


    A Japanese historian said

    " The Ainu race (Aino jinshu) is an inferior race, while our Japanese race (naichi jinshu) is a superior race. The superior race say that the inferior Ainu race will naturally die out "

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    Original land of Ainu




    Ancient Ainu ( before Japanese conquered of Hokkaido island )


    Ancient Ainu bowing down as slaves to the Japanese Samurai in medieval period

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    Quote Originally Posted by ButlerKing View Post
    The thing I don't get is if Samurai were mostly Ainu why are Japanese discriminating Ainu and call them hairy barbarians. Ainu throughout Japanese history had been treated as uncivilized and inferior.


    A Japanese historian said

    " The Ainu race (Aino jinshu) is an inferior race, while our Japanese race (naichi jinshu) is a superior race. The superior race say that the inferior Ainu race will naturally die out "
    I only know the basics of Japanese history, so I wouldn't know. Maybe because they were confined to warfare and never engaged with culture. Thus, maybe they were not seen as people of intellect but rather as aggressive warriors.

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