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Thread: Religious Persecution in modern times

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    Lady Josephine Sheba of Lancaster Apricity Funding Member
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    Default Religious Persecution in modern times

    A question I have pondered for a while and I can write personally about, since it has happened - and still continues to happen, largely through ignorance.

    My story goes like this:

    I was raised as a Roman Catholic, went through the motions of Communion and confirmation, confession, pasternoters and catechisms. When I was at school there was a distinction with the separate religions that I was aware of. If you weren't a Catholic you were looked down upon.

    At 15, I began questioning the value of religion in my life. I was going out with a Scottish bloke who was a Protestant and he made it perfectly clear to me that Catholics and Protestants were enemies. I thought WTF, I didn't even know what the term Protestant meant, my life was sheltered in regards to what other religions were about.

    At 19, I embarked on my spiritual path when I met a bloke who I now know to have been in the OTO, he certainly had a bent for Aleister Crowley. In the 26 years since, I have steadily moved towards the more traditional practises of my forebears. I have practised what would be referred to as Celtic Paganism for a number of years and I have since incorporated the more Norse Germanic practises - I am a dual traditions Heathen. Truth to tell, I have always had a fascination for the Faery (Fae or Sidhe) folk, myths, folklore and Polytheism.

    About four years ago, I ran into a bit of trouble within a meditation group with whom I was working. A woman meditated about seeing a black bird, and another woman had coughed non-stop and needed to go to the bathroom. I psychically followed her with the intent of helping her. I received her permission to help her. I laid my hands on her and black smoke was coming out of her. When the meditation ended, I told her what I did to help her. Didn't that open a can of worms! I had no idea what was to come afterwards. I also told the woman who saw the blackbird that seeing one means to honour your shadow side, we're not all sweetness and light after all.

    I got a phone call later that day from the woman who conducted the group, accusing me of being evil and in need of a priest! I was shattered at this, because it didn't occur to me that I had done any harm. I counted this woman as a friend! It was clear that these ladies spoke about me afterwards and formed this opinion. I confronted one of them the following day when I was out shopping. I apologised for the misunderstanding, to which she said it was okay. I said, well actually it isn't okay. I'd been accused of being something that I'm not and walked off. I realised soon after that I shouldn't be so worried about this, because I don't believe in God or the Devil, I don't adhere to the forces of good versus evil, I am simply a human who has the traits of positive and negative attributes.

    In retrospect, this incident has been a blessing for me, because it reinforced for me the path that I'm now on. However, it has been one of the hardest lessons I've ever gone through. My family and I live in a small town and I feared the repercussions, because the community is largely Christian. I don't know of any other Pagans or Heathens like myself, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find if they are around, they simply choose to keep their mouths shut.

    In that time, the subject has been brought up in passing when I mention briefly what I am. All I ever seem to get from these ignorant people are "Isn't witchcraft evil?" or this one "Do you believe in the devil's mark 666, do you worship Satan?" blah blah blah. Then there is this kicker: "You're a White Witch, right?" Ye fucking Gods! I'm a Shaman, somebody who walks between this world and the otherworlds. I don't talk about this stuff in real life, except amongst those of us with whom I practise. One of my sisters tried to approach the matter recently and she asked in such a negative fashion (as I always get, regardless of who in the family) that I changed the subject. I couldn't be bothered explaining myself, and I don't.



    This forum has been a great outlet for me to speak to those of like mind to myself. Personally, I don't give a shit as to what another person's religion is. What pisses me off is when someone comes along and preaches pages of sermons and bible passages (that I know back to front mind you!) as a way of suggesting that I'm a lost soul who needs to be steered back to the path of righteousness. A so-called friend of mine from years back tried this tactic with me, after she became a born again. I thought, okay that's fine for you but don't have a constant go at me for the path I choose. I don't speak to her any more. I'm not the type who goes around converting people to my religion. I'm actually secure enough in myself to know that it isn't necessary - you certainly don't make, let alone keep, any friends that way.

    The one thing that annoys me about this forum right now is how some of the more hard line Christians think it's their god-given right to prattle on their nonsense about what they believe to be Heathenism - all the while throwing in the Christian diatribe - in the Heathen section! Honestly, what is your problem here? Do you see any of us converging on any of the Christian fora in an effort to spew out all the revisionist Heathen works like those few of you attempt to do in our fora? NO! You can ridicule our religion all you want, but you have no right to cross the bounds of hospitality when you approach our fora with such a negative attitude - along with an ignorant mindset - berating our beliefs and practises right under our bloody noses!

    Now, since this is a religious persecution thread, I'm not worried in the least about the can of worms I'm about to open. This is the internet, and this forum has given me the springboard to allow myself - and others - the right to speak freely. I still am made to feel as if I have no real value to what I uphold in real life. By the way, those friends who I do have, they don't live around here. The two friends who I do have here that know, are of the Uniting Church and have no such qualms about what I do. This goes both ways, I am equally accepting of their faith. I know there are exceptions to the rule but they are few and far between. It's better for me to keep my mouth shut.

    Comments are appreciated - badmouthing a person and firing personal insults aren't!

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    I don't really have anything to add; just that I know where you're coming from. I just got out of a devout Catholic town and now find myself in a devout Baptist one. Atheists are unheard of here, much less heathens. I once met a heathen couple, though, and that was only in passing but they left quite an impression on me.

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    Bryn your a witch. and you really nead to find your self a priest or it'll be purgatory for you..Oh no they changed their mind on that one didn't they

    More seriously, in my personal life I haev not come across such problems, As a child my grandmother tries to make me go to a C of E church, and I eventually ended up attending a brethren chapel in the village. Mainly because the only other children in the village of my age went there. My mother is wiccan although she would never class herself as such. And my stepfather while nominally an atheist will absolutely kill anyone he considers to be practising witchcraft (used to be head choir boy at Winchester Cathedral).
    My friends at school were led by a girl named Ceridwyn whose parents were Celtic heathens. So I gained quote a lot of my still existing belief in the wee people then. After living away from home for some time, I was looking for a faith that fit, and I read an awful lot about wicca, druidry and Heathery and other eclectic pagan paths. Heathery fits, I have the connection and I like the world view of the folkish Heathens. Going back to my brethren days, the girl who was the same age as me, is married and has two children and lives with her husband in Ireland, he is an Australian Korean mixture even though their whole church in the village was native, this is why I could never be a Christian, they're religion does not believe in any form of racial preservation whatsoever.
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    Don't you worry, we have plenty of stakes left for you and I am stockpiling barrels of gasoline for the big bonfire on the Day of Reckoning.
    Brother, these Americans are shopkeeper souls stinking to heaven. Dead for all spiritual life, totally dead. The nightingale is right that it does not come to these wretched existences. To me it is of serious, deeper meaning that America has no nightingale at all. To me it seems to be poetic justice. A Niagara voice is necessary to preach to these crooks that there are higher Gods than those coined in the mints."

    (Nikolaus Lenau, 1833)

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    The earless Dionysus Lutiferre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrymheim View Post
    he is an Australian Korean mixture even though their whole church in the village was native, this is why I could never be a Christian, they're religion does not believe in any form of racial preservation whatsoever.
    How pathetic to take one example and pretend it means that Christianity, as a religion does not believe in "racial preservation". Christianity has no dogma about it, because Christianity is a religion, not a secular ethnopolitical party.

    It corresponds to me taking the example that there are black Germanic reconstructionists or reconstructionists with interracial partners and pretend it means that Germanic reconstructionists as a "religion" do not believe in racial preservation.

    Non-sequitur.
    A man who fights for a cause thereby affirms the cause of the fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutiferre View Post
    How pathetic to take one example and pretend it means that Christianity, as a religion does not believe in "racial preservation". Christianity has no dogma about it, because Christianity is a religion, not a secular ethnopolitical party.

    It corresponds to me taking the example that there are black Germanic reconstructionists or reconstructionists with interracial partners and pretend it means that Germanic reconstructionists as a "religion" do not believe in racial preservation.

    Non-sequitur.
    I can find millions of examples. All over the globe, there is little need to look hard, but I don't see Heathen circles importing sub Saharan blacks to the UK but I know of several church groups who do. As Christianity has no us and them ethos, only a save everybody it cannot help preserve a community in today's world.
    when travel was less it could help the community pull together and stay separate from the heretics next door, but it no longer does.
    Cattle die, kinsmen die,
    the self must also die;
    but glory never dies,
    For the one who is able to achieve it.

    Sayings of the High One.

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    The earless Dionysus Lutiferre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrymheim View Post
    I can find millions of examples.
    There are two billion Christians. If you find "millions of examples", then it is because there are billions of Christians, many of whom are simply following the ethnopolitical mainstream, and theres probably not even a half hundred million heathens. On the other hand, there are even many heathens who, too, simply follow the ethnopolitical mainstream. I know of Asatru groups in Denmark that are pro-multiculturalist.
    A man who fights for a cause thereby affirms the cause of the fight.

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    Bryn, my only comment is this: I applaud your restraint at the hands of people who would attack your faith and I admire your forthright honesty in dealing with people. It takes a certain level of experience and maturity to be able to stand for your faith against all comers and to explain it to those who would learn more and to ignore or put off those who would attack it. Bravo!

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    To be fair the Bible has very nationalist/folk based passages within it, I tend to treat Christians as a faith separate from the Church, which may have its own agenda (especially the Church of England, which is little more than a PC mouth piece no wonder its dieing a slow and painful death when even the Priests seemingly havent read the Bible and dont believe a word of it anyway).

    As for the thread Ive never been attacked because of my faith, most people havent got a clue about Odinism, I think in England its more relaxed, there is no Bible belt and we have a history of sticking two fingers up at religious authority, we tend to laugh at pretension. The average Englishman believes in something but thats as far as their metaphysical inquiry goes, as long as youre not preaching they tend to be fine. I dont preach, my beliefs are my own.

    My folks have never been religious, Ill correct that my father has such an ego that he believes God has singled him out for persecution, in the past he trained to be a Jehovahs Witness, then had a crisis of faith, my mother died (which didnt help) now I think he looks forward to the day he can strangle God. My two brothers are the far side of atheist, one is a Dawkinite (great scientist, lousy theologian, Dawkins not my brother) the other is just dense. The later tries to take the piss but given he cant argue I feel embarrassed showing how stupid he is, the former at least doesnt start an argument just for the sake of it.

    Then there is me, came to Odinism via a circular route, well via science really, but I was never reconciled to the scientific method being the sole definition of reality. Im not anti-Christian (I actually enjoy reading the Bible and I love old Churches) I just never really connected with Christianity, where as with Odinism there was an instant click. Im probably not your typical Odinist (if there is such a thing) I think Odinists have a lot more leeway to develop or wander given we are usually the only one of our kind for several miles, I think that was part of the attraction I didnt feel I was going to be forced into accepting things I didnt actually believe.

    I walk out of my house each day with my hammer clearly visible (then I do my flys up) sometimes I get a look, most of the time I get a rock on hand sign, if they only knew my opinion of the average heathen band! My next door neighbours but one lads have started wearing hammers as well (both are metal heads) I may never be a visionary or prophet for Odins nation but I seem to be setting a fashion trend. So far I have resisted tattooing my body with runes and Celtic/Germanic designs, oh and I keep my hair cropped short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liffrea View Post
    To be fair the Bible has very nationalist/folk based passages within it
    It does, but those only pertain to Jews, which is probably why so many Western Christians believe that ethnic homogenity and preservation is a good thing for "God's Chosen," but not for them.

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