Protection Or Peril?

**Liffrea** · 10-01-2009, 03:28 PM

Gun Possession Of Questionable Value In An Assault, Study Finds

In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0930121512.htm

**The Lawspeaker** · 10-01-2009, 03:29 PM

Propaganda. Meant to disarm the people by coercion rather then outright force.

**~~Ulf~~** · 10-01-2009, 03:37 PM

I don't even... sigh

That article made me rage.

[YOUTUBE]n1yfRbU6HmU[/YOUTUBE]

**~~Troll's Puzzle~~** · 10-01-2009, 04:30 PM

yeah that's it guys! down with this study! it must be propaganda! *sticks fingers in ears and starts whistling*

I'd imagine it's got some truth in. I can't imagine having a gun is much use to protect yourself if you don't already have the draw on someone. Unless you're a highly trained professional killer;
[youtube]3Q2Il86-38A[/youtube]

it also helps to be slender and nimble: (unlike most americans

)
[youtube]cPMEVzv0AO4[/youtube]

I guess the 4.5x higher chance of being shot was due to the chubby yankee fingers fumbling in their belt trying to emulate the guy above while someone had a gun on them

for the average civilians I don't understand how having a gun could help you if someone has their out already - IE, someone who is trying to rob or rape (or kill, but if someone really wanted to kill you you wouldn't have any chance)

Guns aren't for sale here and I feel safe

I'm not going to be shot and noone in nearby schools is going to be shot (the latest psychological export from america

). America has highest deaths per head of any 'western' country from firearms, ie. europe (where most countries have stronger controls). case closed?

The line about '...then only criminals will have guns' is true but so what? I don't associate with criminals and armed robbers are not common here. It is not common for criminals to kill random people anyway, mostly they kill each other. The above 'crazy man shoot out clip' -> doesn't happen either since crazies can't get guns easily as in america. It could happen but never as frequent as it happens in america. and apparently even in america guns didn't stop this guy shooting up a whole resteraunt (did noone there have one?)

I especially don't buy the paranoid US survivalist 'govt. disarms the people to protect itself' (like the woman said 'protect us from you guys' wtf?) nonsense either, what bunch of survivalists are going to take on the govt. and win with their pop-guns? none of them. Just ask the guys at waco. oh wait, they died.

**Skandi** · 10-01-2009, 04:36 PM

I think it is probably true too, if I'm a criminal with a gun I am unlikely to shoot you if you can't shoot back, but if I think you can, then I will shoot you just incase.

**Liffrea** · 10-01-2009, 04:47 PM

A gun would be next to useless for me, never held or fired one, I might throw it at you but that’s about it......

**~~Ulf~~** · 10-01-2009, 04:48 PM

No one's going to be shot in Europe, you'll just get stabbed. When us fat Americans get stabbed we just shrug it off and hit the next McD's, it's our body armor.

Yes, the 2nd Amendment is for defending ourselves from our government.

I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, as most hoplophobes can't be convinced of the need for firearms. Disarm yourself and submit to your gov't and criminals if you wish.

**~~Frigga~~** · 10-01-2009, 04:54 PM

Well, I'd rather have a gun (oh wait, I already do!

) then be unarmed. There are differing gun laws that vary state by state, so the statistic of gun crime and gun deaths need to be broken down by state, and not the country as a whole. You can legally conceal carry in many states without a permit, and those are the states with the lowest gun crime. Washington DC has a total ban on firearms, and they have one of the highest crime rates in the country. I would rather have peace of mind with being able to legally own and carry a gun then to be prevented from carrying a tool which could save my life, and the lives of those that I love.

Criminals do not obey laws, so why should you feel so much safer with firearms being banned? They're on the black market anyway, and it just means that the law abiding civilians are unable to fight back on equal terms. Butcher knives and pitchforks against a shotgun? I think that the shotgun would win. Just because you feel safe does not mean that you are. There have been murders in sleepy little towns all over the world. Just because there is not a prevalance of armed murders and robberies in your area should not mean that you should wholly depend on law enforcement to come to your aid. They may not get there in time. There have been many instances where the bad guy got his because there was an armed citizen. I am glad that we can legally own firearms in America. I feel badly for you guys in countries that cannot, as that is a disadvantage for you.

Also, the stereotype of obese Americans really doesn't have any bearing on defending yourself, so why bring that up? Why mock Americans for wanting the right to defend ourselves with saying that we're all just a bunch of lard asses? Please stick to the subject matter.

**Liffrea** · 10-01-2009, 04:54 PM

There’s plenty of chances of being shot in England, where I live there have been (let me think) two drive by shootings in the area, one lad got gunned down on a street a few hundred yards from where I live, and a whole house got shot up by some gang or other all in about the last three years. In nearby Nottingham shootings happen nearly every week. I could acquire an uzi, several types of shotgun and a few handguns within a few hours (both legally and otherwise). Guns are prelevent in the UK, we just don’t have a tradition of legal ownership and most folks are like me, ignorant of firearms.

Of course there are laws on gun ownership but, strangely enough, criminals don’t give a shit about laws…..

**~~Troll's Puzzle~~** · 10-01-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ulf

No one's going to be shot in Europe, you'll just get stabbed. When us fat Americans get stabbed we just shrug it off and hit the next McD's, it's our body armor.

Yes, the 2nd Amendment is for defending ourselves from our government.

I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, as most hoplophobes can't be convinced of the need for firearms. Disarm yourself and submit to your gov't and criminals if you wish.

LOL. the same goes for you in reverse ('you're already convinced of your need for firearms'). In fact it goes for almost all debates (especially religious ones, ask lutifiere or w/e he's called

). That's 'cognitive dissonance'. The difference is, the numbers are on my side.

some Homicides rates via firearms:

Germany 0.21
Romania 0.12
Hungary 0.47
Spain 0.19
UK 0.13
Poland 0.27
Austria 0.53
Czech Rep 0.92 (more liberal guns than most of europe)
USA: 6.24

re. Knives: yes, i'd much rather our criminals have knives instead of guns. I do agree with you