Why aren't Southern Italians and Sicilians allowed to claim Greek ancestry?

[Sikeliot]

Even as a mixed Sicilian, her Sicilian ancestors never mixed with Turks, Georgians, Serbs, or Bulgarians. More than you can say.

Well her ancestry is from Palermo, so she may be more Phoenician. BUT.. she still has Greek ancestry of course whereas many people from mainland Greece have been mixed with other Balkans, Pontic Greeks (who are Hellenized Armenians/Laz), etc.

[alfieb]

Well her ancestry is from Palermo

Trapani, from what she told me. But, Northeastern Trapani, so it may as well be Palermo.

[riverman]

probably because it isn't just Sicilians who have greek ancestry...... they may have greek ancestry on average moreso than other groups, but ancestry is individual also, it isn't just determined by country of origin.

[wvwvw]

Far be it from me to get involved in a cat fight / pissing contest, but she obviously has ancient Greek ancestry. Probably more than some Greeks.

Even as a mixed Sicilian, her Sicilian ancestors never mixed with Turks, Georgians, Serbs, or Bulgarians. More than you can say.

I find it amusing that you equate the Greeks of Asia Minor with Turks, but you don't equate the Greeks of Sicily with Berbers or Moors.

[Ianus]

We clearly have some Greek ancestry. This is especially true of those in Eastern Sicily.
Why is it Sicilians are given no credit for the ancient Greek empire? Because it is not considered a part of modern Greece? Genetics show that many Sicilians are of Greek heritage

What do you mean for "allowed to claim Greek ancestry"?

[Sikeliot]

Trapani, from what she told me. But, Northeastern Trapani, so it may as well be Palermo.

Either way I disagree with Raine that Sicilians are "Italians with substantial Greek ancestry" -- by the time Italy existed, Sicilians' genes were already well intact, and the only Italians they cluster with genetically are the Calabrese and Lucanians.

Either way some of the Greeks I share with on 23andme cluster way far north, some even further north than me. The idea that they are "pure" Greeks and someone from Messina or Enna is an "Italian with substantial Greek ancestry" is laughable.

And for the record, Anatolian Greeks, Aegean islanders, and Sicilians cluster together. It's other Greeks that cluster further north of that.. and Pontians don't cluster with Greeks but with Armenians.

[alfieb]

I find it amusing that you equate the Greeks of Asia Minor with Turks, but you don't equate the Greeks of Sicily with Berbers or Moors.

I've never denied that we have MENA ancestry, but we don't consider our neighbors in Tunisia or Libya to be our enemies, and Palermitans are genuinely from Palermo, Catanese are genuinely from Catania, etc. Greece is filled with Greek refugees with foreign ancestry, and people who migrated from one part of Greece to another. Much of that foreign ancestry being Bulgarian (essentially, FYROMian) and Ottoman-era Turkish.

Ancient Greeks didn't know what a Slav or a Turk was. They certainly knew what a Phoenician was.

[Sikeliot]

I've never denied that we have MENA ancestry, but we don't consider our neighbors in Tunisia or Libya to be our enemies, and Palermitans are genuinely from Palermo, Catanese are genuinely from Catania, etc. Greece is filled with Greek refugees with foreign ancestry, and people who migrated from one part of Greece to another. Much of that foreign ancestry being Bulgarian (essentially, FYROMian) and Ottoman-era Turkish.

Ancient Greeks didn't know what a Slav or a Turk was. They certainly knew what a Phoenician was.

We should explain this another way. Since ancient times (2000 years or so), there has been relatively little genetic influx into eastern Sicily (eastern coast plus Enna, and southern Caltanissetta) -- and the only groups who moved there were Lombards who have retained their own communities. Greece has not been so isolated, and people have moved around, and into Greece, more.

[alfieb]

We should explain this another way. Since ancient times (2000 years or so), there has been relatively little genetic influx into eastern Sicily (eastern coast plus Enna, and southern Caltanissetta) -- and the only groups who moved there were Lombards who have retained their own communities. Greece has not been so isolated, and people have moved around, and into Greece, more.

Not true.

Catalans/Spaniards migrated to Eastern Sicily in small numbers during the Aragonese era (the capital of the kingdom was in Catania for that period) and there were Albanian communities in the East as well. It's just that they didn't survive with their native culture intact. Only the Palermitan ones successfully resisted the urge to go native. However, there were far greater numbers of Albanians in Palermo, so it's Palermitans who usually have minor Albanian admixture.

[Sikeliot]

Not true.

Catalans/Spaniards migrated to Eastern Sicily in small numbers during the Aragonese era (the capital of the kingdom was in Catania for that period) and there were Albanian communities in the East as well. It's just that they didn't survive. Only the Palermitan ones successfully resisted the urge to go native.

In small numbers being the operative. Nothing compared to the influx of Pontic "Greeks", Albanians/Arvanites, and Slavs into Greece.