R1b L51-L11 Germanic Italo Celts: Rulers and conqueres of Bronze-Iron age west Europe

[Fire Haired]

Just saying Y DNA I and maybe some specfic very rare subclades of F and C are the only Y DNA haplogroups that were in Europe before 10,000ybp. So there is no way R1b has anything to do with Cro magnon or pre bronze age west Europe. This does not mean west Europeans ancestry is only bronze age or Neolithic. Y DNA is just a direct male lineage u can have R1b but be 99.999% Nigerian. Aust DNa tells ur full ancestry and in aust DNA Europeans are a unque ethnic group there defintley has been ancestry that was brought in the last 10,000 years but most of Europeans ancestry is from people who migrated from the mid east probably from around 35,000-50,000ybp.

[Harkonnen]

I've seen dna results from upcoming study on some bronze age remains. Based on those I'd say R1b is not Germanic at all. It probably spread later from south with peasants, merchants and serfs.

[Fire Haired]

I've seen dna results from upcoming study on some bronze age remains. Based on those I'd say R1b is not Germanic at all. It probably spread later from south with peasants, merchants and serfs.

what upcoming study are u talking about and what results do u have from it. There is no doubt R1b is connected with Germanic languages their branch is R1b S21/U106

[Fire Haired]

I forgot to add this on the thread. 3,500 year old clothing in Austria from early Italo Celtic Unetice culture had the same plaid tarten like design as what ancient Celtic and Germanic tribes wore and what modern Scottish and Irish ware. Romans say that the Gauls who in 390bc sacked Rome wore checkered paints and shirts. This type of clothing was extremly popular in Germanic and Celtic tribes and it was pretty ancient. The first Germanic Italo Celtic speakers 4,500-5,000ybp probably had this type of clothing. 3,000 year old iNdo Iranian tarium mummy in west china also had this form of clothing it could be from trade but since they were so far away from west Europe i doubt it was from trade. This is evidence that Plaid and tarten design is from very early Indo Europeans around Russia and Ukraine 5,000-6,000ybp. Scottish and Irish are just the last western Europeans to still wear it.

[Fire Haired]

I dont know if i made this clear in the Thread but Germanic Italo Celts reprsent a kind of forgotten time in western European history. In Geography and history class when i learn about Europe's history all i hear is Rome and Greece. The Germanic Italo Celts culture completely dominated Iron-bronze age Europe so from about 5,000-2,000ybp. They conquered and destroyed everyone they faced which is why almost 50% of west European direct father line goes back to them. They were one of the most dominate people groups in human history. I dont know about college history class and advanced high school classes but i think they should defintley be somewhere in it.

[Fire Haired]

Trying to figure out what languages are more related to each other can get very complicated and there will be many theories non are for sure. The fact is that R1b L51 came to western Europe probably in the last 6,000 years and that it breaks down into language families Germanic R1b S21 is the brother to Italo Celtic R1b S116. Corded ware culture spoke proto Balto Slavic they had R1a1a1b2 Scandnavia has a brother R1a clade to Slavic and Baltic branchses called R1b Z284 it came from corded ware culture.

Nordic Bronze age culture probably did not descend from Corded ware. Corded ware in Scandnavia was probably conquered by Germanics. Maybe they adopted the native language but if they did i think it would be more obvious Germanic is in the Balto Slavic language family just like it is obviosu Baltic and Slavic languages are related.

I am saying Germanic Italo Celts took a roue in south east Europe not areas around Corded ware culture. That is why Corded ware had R1a1a and Bell Beaker had R1b and why Germanic Italo Celts today are marked by R1b and Balto Slavs by R1a.

The Neloithic Y DNA i mentioned is added up all their samples from that website u should a link to. It totally defends my theory me and other people predicted that R1b L51 and L11 Germanic Italo Celts arrived in central Germany from south east Europe by 4,500-5,000ybp the Bell Beaker R1b is 4,600 years old. The R1b clades in western Europe come from a recent migration at the earliest 6,000ybp around the time Germanic Italo Celts. Also bell Beaker is the culture they first would ahve had conntact with and they would have quickley conquered it by destroying the paternal lineages in war. Sure the burail's were in the Bell Beaker culture but they were Bell Beaker people whp had begun to be conqauered by Germanic Italo Celts.

Archaeology and defning ancient cultures is really hard around 4,500-5,000ybp there were new cultures forming by conquering Bell Beaker Unetice is a good example.

[Fire Haired]

LOL. That's no argument.

I am not making an argument just a statment

[Fire Haired]

These people talking about Bell Beaker are going off skeky genetic information and use smart words for people to trust them. There is no way celtic languages spread from Iberia because Iberia does not have R1b P312 and does not show evidence that is where is spread from. One big signature of Indo Europeans is a kurgen burail which i doubt was in Iberia over 4,000ybp. All other Indo European languages seem to have spread from russia and Ukraine why would Celtic languages spread from the oppiste direction. the R1b in west Europe orignates from R1b eastward not westward in Iberia. We dont have enough mtDNA samples from bell beaker to make a conclusion their similar to Basque or whatever their going off of bad evidence.

[Gaijin]

Eupedia maps, contains non-academic content.
The map about Redheads in Europe, is further deficient.

[Fire Haired]

Kamane like i said before they are going off of weak evidence and making quick conclusions. They dont explain what they mean by genetic affintes with modern Iberias. All we have from Bell Beaker is 20 mtDNA samples and two Y DNA samples. 60% had mtDNA H most modern Europeans have around 40% but u have to look at subclades of H also modern Iberians have alittle more around 50% the small samples of mtDNA and the fact most Europeans have around 40% is not evidence. Also the two y DNA samples had R1b which like i said before can be explained by Germanic Italo Celtic migration. Even if that is not true R1b is west Europe comes from a migration from the east at the earliest around 6,000ybp there is almost no way it migrated from Spain.

Indo European culture began and spread from Russia, Ukriane, and Caucus. Spain would have had a very late arrival of R1b and Indo European languages. It gets annoying were the Basque get so much attention the Basque ancestors were the Aquitaine who according to Julis ceasar and Romans did not speeak a Gaulic or Celtic language but they were Celts by culture. Basque ancestors were Celts that is why they have 80% Italo Celtic R1b S116 P312 subclades. Most of Iberia spoke a Celtic language 2,400ybp or they were Celts by culture but kept the native language. The Aquitaine are one and there were others there are some sources of the non Celtic languages in Iberia non were Indo European if Celtic languages spread from Iberia how does that make sense when it seems the Celts were the invaders.