View Poll Results: Should citizens have guns?

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  • Yes

    70 76.92%
  • No

    11 12.09%
  • Unsure

    10 10.99%
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Thread: Guns: Should ordinary citizens have them?

  1. #31
    Numinous Theurgist Apricity Funding Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll's Puzzle View Post
    I've worked for government before, you know
    And I work for the government, sweet cheeks. Your point?
    "Free, do you call yourself? Then I would hear your ruling thought, and not merely that you have escaped from a yoke. Are you one of those who had the right to escape from a yoke? Many a one has cast away his last worth when he has cast away his servitude. Free from what? What does that matter to Zarathustra! But your fiery eyes should tell me: free for what?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra


  2. #32
    Veteran Member The Lawspeaker's Avatar
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    Anyways, Troll- I am still waiting for you to make your case because apart from you lobbing poorly spelled personal insults at people: I have seen no real reason why they should remain banned ?



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawspeaker View Post
    Anyways, Troll- apart from your poorly spelled personal insults to people: I have seen no real reason why they should remain banned ?
    too proetect teh innercent !

    mroe poeple dye bie gunn mudur in USA thun in herrr. Dat bad! no want I!

  4. #34
    Veteran Member The Lawspeaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll's Puzzle View Post
    too proetect teh innercent !

    mroe poeple dye bie gunn mudur in USA thun in herrr. Dat bad! no want I!
    Now in English, please ?



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll's Puzzle View Post
    LOL - you completely don't understand what I said.

    You even say yourself - 'it's not as common out in the sticks'....
    thankyou, I am proven right
    Thank you oh so very much for not using my whole quote, it's because of the lower population density that it's not as common. Per capitia it's probably quite close because people are people everywhere.

    Also - I was only saying guns are less dangerous in that kind of environment. Not that they shouldn't be there or there is no crime at all (lol) or you won't have use for one.
    Only that it's less gun-dangerous than a modern city. Cities always have higher crime, more shootings, etc. Not jsut because of gun laws. I thought this was known by everyone.
    Really, it certainly didn't translate that way. And please leave the condensending tone in the loo mmkay? It's annoying, and counterproductive.



    didn't say it was a bad luck charm. or that it's doom, or someone can't use a gun to save their lives, more than once, and live a long and happy life. It's possible.

    But, you are right about correlating factors. after all you read this study which really does say people with guns = more likely to be shot.

    of course the omniscient all wise lawspeaker knows this research in a professional medical journal was just 'propaganda', without even reading the full text. No bias on his part either, obviosuly
    You're not giving it much of a chance though are you? You blithely claim that gun ownership implies that your going to be a victim of gun crime, and that you're not safe. If you don't want us to think that that is what you are saying, learn to construct your paragraphs better. Plus, isn't violent crime still just that? Violent crime? In the end, it doesn't really matter what was used to either hurt or kill you, it still did that job. You can kill someone with a screw driver, or an axe, what are we supposed to do, outlaw these tools? And I'll head off that argument of guns only being used to kill humans. Guns are able to be tools as well. You can save your life in the wilds with shooting an attacking animal, or use it as a signal for being in distress, and you are being rescued.

    Guns in the hands of rational citizens just gives them the edge to fend off an attacker who already has the advantage from the aggression and adrenaline. Victims need all the edge they can get, and a handgun is that best advantage. Plus, the numbers of a professional study can be doctored in any way to give you the results you want, with nothing more printed then the facts, but presented in a deceitful way. Just because it is a true study does not mean that it tells the whole truth.


    I never understood this argument. Is it better for these nutters, the 'most violenet ever' underclass says oswiu, to have more guns or jsut knives and blunt weapons? not hard to think about here.
    why not then have m4's and tanks to the public as well? we can appear on TV after the devestation and say 'tanks don't kill people, people kill people'
    Um, yeah, what an intelligent argument. And no, I'm not trying to say that the civilians need military weapons.

    fine. I already said I can understand wanting to 'protecting against the nasty rapist'. I already said that's not the same as the 'nutjobs...' bit. Did you comprehend ? (I know you must have, but it seems you wanted to talk anyway )
    Please do not try to insult my intelligence. It gets on my nerves. I got your meaning, but felt that your argument needed to be dissected, it was full of flaws and fantasies. And there's no need for the ad hominems that you've been flinging about towards everyone either. Keep it to the subject, and to the point.


    yes today's world is really the same as that isn't it?
    muskets firing at a range of yards
    why not mention peasant revolts in medievel europe too. Militias were good then as well

    not anymore
    I find your lack of faith in the power of the common man disheartening.

    yes, I know.
    semper fi
    Well, I'm glad that you seem to understand our pride.
    Last edited by Frigga; 10-05-2009 at 03:43 AM.

  6. #36
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    The democratisation of gun ownership has not been a problem for safe, secure Nazi-proof Switzerland.

    We have to ask ourselves whether we want a militarised civilian population or not.

    I voted 'Unsure', but I am tending towards 'Yes'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll's Puzzle View Post
    Too much paranoia definately a bad thing.
    So are your childish and repetitious spelling errors.

    Did you use the word 'thing' because you could not think of anything else?

    Such infantile use of language.
    Last edited by Fortis in Arduis; 10-05-2009 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Can somebody please exterminate these retards?

  7. #37
    The Old Guard Smaland's Avatar
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    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

    Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
    Commander-in-Chief, Japanese Combined Fleet during World War II

  8. #38
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    I'd say that ethnonationalism rules out the idea of private citizens owning firearms designed for military porposes (fully automatic assault rifles, etc.), since ideally they would not need them.

    In real life, the situation is of course much more complicated. But rifles and shotguns for hunting purposes and handguns for target practice and self defense should always be available no matter what.

    Btw here's an interesting article by the notorious and controversial Jussi Halla-aho, written in the aftermath of the Jokela school massacre. His English is iffy at times, but I'm sure English-speaking readers can get the idea of what he's saying.

    http://www.halla-aho.com/scripta/inter_arma_eng.html

  9. #39
    Formerly 'Cythraul' Freomęg's Avatar
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    I think the fact that some of us are opposed to gun-ownership just demonstrates our willingness for serfdom. As it stands, the people must fear the government whilst the government must not fear the people. Sort of solidifies the big turnaround from government being servants - as they should be, to overlords - as they are.

    To this Troll guy - you can snigger at 'paranoid conspiracy theorists', but the US Constitution took the matter of government tyranny very seriously and set the right-to-bear-arms as a result. Think times have changed? You just wait a few years. There's nothing outlandish about people having to defend themselves from a rogue government.

    The arguments have all been made - the criminals are already armed, legal or not etc. And despite what Absinthe says, I truly do believe that the otherwise peaceful and law-abiding are little more likely to harm someone - unprovokedly - when in possession of a gun. Guns are a tool, they do not transform sane men into murderers.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Should any citizen have access to firearms? And if so, why? To what end?
    The way you phrase your question betrays a fundamental difference in opinion that we're bound to have over the basic function of government. It is not, IMO, the place for a government to grant you rights to do things. The basic place of a government is to place as few limitations on your God given liberty as is necessary for the society it is governing to be relatively safe from violence, both foreign and domestic. Rather than asking if there are any reasons for us to be allowed to have guns, you should ask if there are reasons for that liberty to be taken from us and whether those reasons outweigh the theft of that portion of our freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I think it's irresponsible of a government to allow every nutjob and his cousin the right to have assault rifles and stuff like that. What are they going to use it for anyway? Columbine massacre anyone?
    According to this site, assault weapons were used in less than .20% of all violent crimes in the US. Yes, .20%. Are you seriously going to argue that something as statistically insignificant as .20% is a reason to strip from us the right to own assault weapons?

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