Guns: Should ordinary citizens have them?

[Lysander]

I can't speak about the rest of the world.

In Greece, if ordinary citizens had them (Gods forbid), and given their temperament, impulsivity and Balkan "macho" attitude, then they'd manage to wipe each other out in less than two weeks, over road rage disputes.

That's argument enough to make me vote yes for liberal gun laws!

Edit: on a more serious note. Yes we should, without them we have nothing to defend ourselves with against the monster government.

[Óttar]

The people have a right to overthrow the government if it becomes corrupt. In this way, the government doesn't have the right to strip the population of firearms. This was a policy of tyrants in Japan which made it illegal for anyone, but samurai to carry swords. I think however that there should be a regulation of gun shops in the ghetto, where the gunshop owners are merely there to get fat off of the spilled blood of disenfranchised and marginalised citizens. We need to maintain an enlightened right to bear arms.

"A well-organised citizen militia being necessary for the defense and maintenance of the State, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed."

[Svarog]

Hell no, gun control should be put on even higher standard, and penalties for possessing guns with no permit should be way more severe than they are at the moment.. why? Yes, please put a gun to every moron's hands that asks.

[Taciturn]

Fact: An increase of gun ownership among civilians will always result in a higher proportion of gun crime and deaths. This is really a pitiful and lamentable situation.

Obviously it only naturally follows that more guns will mean more gun usage. I fail to see the relevance of this to the present discussion, however. People just use knives and other implements instead, if they don't have guns.

US School shootings

School shootings are statistically insignificant to the point of irrelevance; 150,000+ people die every single day of the year. Were you to add up every single death throughout history which has been caused by "school shooting" massacres, the combined death toll wouldn't even add up to 1/10 of the deaths that occur on a typical day of the year. This applies to gun crimes and deaths in general, as well (not word for word, obviously, but certainly in a more general sense with regards to "statistical insignificance").

[Germanicus]

:quote Anonymaus:
although shotguns are the vastly preferred home defense weapon.


In a modern home like my own, an intruder who got inside would find no hiding place, a shotgun is the ultimate close weapon.
The awesome power of a shotgun is ball bearings leaving the end of a barrel in a 12ft from end to barrel, but travelling at 1,450 feet per second, hitting the target like a super hammer blow.
Plaster board walls would be useless cover for the intruder, or a tooled up burglar.

In Britain i would not like to see the law abiding Asian population carrying guns,as the weapons would undoubtably end up on the streets, a tooled up Muslim community sends shivers down my spine.

[Loki]

Obviously it only naturally follows that more guns will mean more gun usage.

Sure, but how is this good? More dead people, more gunshot wounds. All in all, leads to a more dangerous society.

In addition, having a firearm gives a false sense of security. You're not always going to carry your firearm with you, and at the point where you really need it, you may not even have it with you. Or, your reactions may be too slow.

In South Africa I owned two pistols, a shotgun, a high-calibre hunting rifle and an automatic army-issued rifle. All this didn't help a thing when I was a victim of an armed robbery at work, since I was not allowed to carry my handgun in the office. In all the years that I owned firearms in SA, I only used a pistol once to deter an aggressor on our property. It wasn't very serious in any case.

Owning firearms gives one a false sense of security, mostly. It does help to drive away your fears, though, and make you feel like a tough guy. And, it is fun to shoot at ranges and maintain your firearms. I loved mine.

[Taciturn]

Sure, but how is this good? More dead people, more gunshot wounds. All in all, leads to a more dangerous society.

I never said it was good. My point was that the distinction being made between gun crime and (non-gun) violent crimes is pointless, and that the higher rates of gun crime in the US bear no relevance to a discussion such as this.

Besides...

"Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[Loki]

I never said it was good. My point was that the distinction being made between gun crime and (non-gun) violent crimes is pointless, and that the higher rates of gun crime in the US bear no relevance to a discussion such as this.

It is not pointless, it is very relevant. If life is not important, then what is?

[Taciturn]

It is not pointless, it is very relevant. If life is not important, then what is?

I never said life isn't important. What I said is that distinguishing between gun homicides and non-gun homicides is pointless, since lack of guns will only mean more non-gun homicides.

[Loki]

I never said life isn't important. What I said is that distinguishing between gun homicides and non-gun homicides is pointless, since lack of guns will only mean more non-gun homicides.

No. Why? Because guns are more lethal than fists or even knives, and thus will result in more serious injuries and more fatalities.