Are Europeans in Denial of the EU?

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Ibex
and the fact is that there hasn't been any war within its borders for more than half a century, and that is highly significative from a historical point of view, even if people find this fact unimportant.

I don’t personally find it unimportant, I just don’t see it as that important (Europe’s been at relative peace for longer periods in it’s history) nor do I see it as thanks to the EU. The EU (militarily) is impotent. After WW2 European states de-militarised quickly, true because they were sick of conflict, more so because they abdicated responsibility for their defence to the USA. Without the American umbrella it is tempting to wonder just how long it would have taken Soviet forces to reach Trafalgar Square….

The coming of the euro is also another important factor.

Maybe.

It is still a Europe of the states, and not of the peoples, anyway.

Well yes, the EU will never effectively destroy ethnic identity, but that’s not really the issue is it? I’m not worried about losing my identity, I am interested in how I am governed, who I pay my taxes to and what for. I’m an advocate of devolved government to as greater degree possible, it’s easier to cut people’s balls off…

And well, I don't know if this makes me a chauvinist, but I love this continent.

A healthy attitude.

[007]

After all, it was born out of a desire of cooperation after wars,

That's just marketing. It's always been intended as a United States of Europe.

[Comte Arnau]

Well yes, the EU will never effectively destroy ethnic identity, but that’s not really the issue is it? I’m not worried about losing my identity, I am interested in how I am governed, who I pay my taxes to and what for.

Well, isn't that appliable to state governments too?

I’m an advocate of devolved government to as greater degree possible, it’s easier to cut people’s balls off…

I'm also an advocate of as little and as local a government as possible. But macrostructures can be useful for a number of reasons, and I consider the Schengen Area and the euro as positive examples in this regard.

That's just marketing. It's always been intended as a United States of Europe.

I don't think so, even if some may have conceived it that way. It can never be, and even if called like that, the structure of it will always be different for many reasons. The Europen Union has no real precedent, therefore it can't be compared. And the fact that other areas want to imitate it (African Union, UNASUR, the Gulf) say a lot about it.

[Matritensis]

The coming of the euro is also another important factor.

I'm of the same opinion,traveling between European countries has never been this easy.The euro is definitely an improvement.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Ibex
Well, isn't that appliable to state governments too?

Of course, personally I have no allegiance to any government or state. I care not a jot for the United Kingdom, what I do care about is the effect of a political establishment on my life. If the EU offered me a better deal than the UK I would be a Europhile over night (politics isn’t my identity). I have nothing to gain from supporting the continuation of the British state but I suspect I have a fair bit to lose if the far more distant EU starts to impact even more on my life. I haven’t liked what I have seen so far, I can only envisage it being a good deal worse.

I'm also an advocate of as little and as local a government as possible. But macrostructures can be useful for a number of reasons, and I consider the Schengen Area and the euro as positive examples in this regard.

In fantasy land the state should serve the interests of the people. In reality it all comes down to how much you're prepared to bend....

[SwordoftheVistula]

The Euro certainly does make it easier for us tourists, but it also hampers the ability to make monetary policy decisions, as some countries may desire an inflationary/low interest rates policy and others may desire the opposite.

[Anthropos]

The Euro certainly does make it easier for us tourists, but it also hampers the ability to make monetary policy decisions, as some countries may desire an inflationary/low interest rates policy and others may desire the opposite.

... or just the power to handle these things and not leave it up to a bank, the real purposes of which we may only be able to take guesses about.