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Thread: Gloucester body 'is Goth warrior'

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    Default Gloucester body 'is Goth warrior'



    A late Roman period body unearthed in Gloucester has stunned experts after tests suggested it was a Goth warrior from eastern Europe.

    The man, aged 25 to 30, who was dug up north of Kingsholm Square in 1972, had always baffled archaeologists.
    His elaborate silver belt fittings, shoe buckles and inlaid knife were believed to be from an area between the Balkans and Southern Russia.
    Chemical tests now prove he was from east of the River Danube.
    This has led historians to suggest he was a Goth mercenary in the Roman Army.

    Pirate warden?

    The large bones date to about 400AD, just 10 years before Rome itself fell to Visigoth invaders, and tests showed he was mostly vegetarian.
    They were discovered in a mausoleum, suggesting he was a man of high social status.
    David Rice, archaeology curator at Gloucester City Museum, said: "Archaeologists have always wondered who he was and what he was doing in Gloucester.
    "We've discovered he came from way outside of the Roman Empire, from the other side of the Danube."

    It was possible to detect he lived in very cold regions as a child, before moving west, he said.
    Mr Rice added: "To have such an unusual person in this city means that Gloucester was a more important place in Roman times than we've previously thought.
    "Perhaps there were pirates coming up the River Severn?"

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    About 10 yrs ago my company were working near Qedgley on the old Bristol road, a JCB unearthed a limestone coffin with a lead inner shell.
    The site itself was on top of a Villa that had been excavated.
    We all watched a team of Gloucester archeologists swoop down on site to investigate the find, the skeleton was complete except for the two patella's.
    The grave was a very high status burial, and the body was confirmed to be of a woman.
    Of all the places to be working in, i was very lucky to be there at the right place and the right time to see a little bit of old history being unearthed.
    The find is still on show in the Roman section at the Gloucester museum.
    Have you noticed that if you rearrange the letters in ‘illegal immigrants’, and add just a few more letters, it spells, ‘Go home you free-loading, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, baby-making, non-English-speaking ********* and take those other hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-f*****g raghead c***s with you.?

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    I've been trying to find the paper, I mean it is nice to read that based upon isotopic research they found out he was a from the Danube region. However how to know it was a Goth? Ok the skull looks (very) Nordid, but thats not enough these days. And the only other report I could find is the earlier announcement that they were researching it.

    Archaeologists keen to trace origins of Roman skeleton
    Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 08:05

    A ROMAN skeleton which was found in Kingsholm is being investigated by archeologists who are keen to trace his origins.

    Spoiler!


    ■ For more information visit www.bgas.org.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Prince View Post
    I've been trying to find the paper, I mean it is nice to read that based upon isotopic research they found out he was a from the Danube region. However how to know it was a Goth? Ok the skull looks (very) Nordid, but thats not enough these days. And the only other report I could find is the earlier announcement that they were researching it.

    I'll see if I can find it tomorrow--I have access to such things sometimes.

    And yes, this looks to be a robust Nordoid type skull, eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson View Post
    I'll see if I can find it tomorrow--I have access to such things sometimes.

    And yes, this looks to be a robust Nordoid type skull, eh?
    Thanks, that would be great. up

    And yup, from the two pics I've seen sofar (here's another small one) it seems really typical as in the way Coon described them.


    Goth warrior skull with archaeology curator David Rice standing next to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Prince View Post
    Thanks, that would be great. up

    And yup, from the two pics I've seen sofar (here's another small one) it seems really typical as in the way Coon described them.


    Goth warrior skull with archaeology curator David Rice standing next to it.
    How did Coon describe them?

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    Superb. No pictures of his burial accoutrements, such as might help pinpoint his origins even further?

    But might he not as likely be a Vandal? Fits in nicely with Stilicho sending trusted men over to keep an eye on things in Britannia Prima...

    Claudian's panegyric, 'On the Consulship of Stilicho', delivered early in 400:

    "Next spoke Britannia, dressed in the skin of some Caledonian beast, her cheeks tattooed, her sea-blue mantle sweeping over her footsteps like the surge of Ocean: "I too, when on the point of death at the hands of neighbouring tribes, found in Stilicho protection, when the Scots roused all Ireland and the sea foamed beneath hostile oars. His care ensured I need not fear the missiles of the Scots, nor tremble at the Picts, nor watch on all my shores for Saxons to arrive with every shifting wind.""

    Claudian, writing in 402, implies that Stilicho removed a legion from Britain to assist in his defence of Italy against the Visigoths.

    "There also came the legion set to guard the furthest Britons, the legion that curbs the savage Scot and scans the lifeless patterns tattooed on dying Picts."

    At this point, an episode not specifically mentioned by Gildas has to be inserted into his narrative:

    ". . . when the consuls were Arcadius for the sixth time and Probus(406), the Vandals had joined forces with the Suebi and the Alans, overrun the trans-Alpine regions and destroyed the peoples. Having wrought much slaughter, they became formidable even to the armies in Britain, which, being afraid they might march against Britain, they drove to the point of choosing tyrants . . ."
    Zosimus

    ". . . they proclaimed Marcus as tyrant. Afterwards, however, they slew Marcus, and proclaimed Gratian. Within four months subsequently they killed Gratian, and elected Constantine in his place, imagining that, on account of his name, he would be able to reduce the empire firmly under his authority . . . Constantine passed over from Britain to Bononia (Boulogne), a maritime city of Gaul; and after inducing all the troops in Gaul and Aquitania to espouse his cause, he reduced to obedience the inhabitants of the regions extending to the mountains which divide Italy from Gaul, and which the Romans have named the Cottian Alps."
    'The Ecclesiastical History of Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus'

    Stilicho sent a force, commanded by Sarus, against Constantine. Sarus enjoyed initial success, killing both of Constantine's generals:

    "Constantine now appointed Ediovinchus, a Frank, and Gerontius, a Briton, as his new generals, men for whose military experience and courage Sarus had respect. . . Constantine's generals ran out after him (Sarus) with all their might and main, and it was only with great difficulty that he escaped. . . Constantine was establishing garrisons in the Alpine regions, so that they (the legitimate Roman forces) might not have free access into Gaul. He also was setting safeguards along the Rhine, which had been neglected since the reign of the Emperor Julian. . . he despatched to Spain the elder of his two sons, Constans, having decked him out in the dress of a Caesar. For he wanted to bring all the Spanish nations under his sway so as both to extend his rule and to wipe out the dynasty of Honorius’ kinsmen there. Indeed, he was growing fearful lest these latter might some day collect a force of soldiers there, cross the Pyrenees and attack him while the Emperor Honorius simultaneously might dispatch his armies from Italy, encircle him on all sides, and remove him from his tyranny."
    Zosimus

    In 409, Constantine sent emissaries to Honorius. Honorius, under severe pressure from the Visigoths, lead by Alaric, was in a weak position (he had also executed Stilicho the previous year), and he seems to have recognised Constantine.

    ". . . a report having been spread that he had conspired against the emperor, and had formed a scheme, in conjunction with those in power, to raise his son to the throne . . . Stilicho himself was slain by the soldiers at Ravenna. He had attained almost absolute power; and all men, so to speak, whether Romans or barbarians, were under his control. Thus perished Stilicho, on a suspicion of having conspired against the emperors. Eucherius, his son, was also slain."
    'The Ecclesiastical History of Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus'
    From the excellent British-focussed site;
    http://www.dot-domesday.me.uk/maximus.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjólf View Post
    How did Coon describe them?
    The Danish Iron Age crania form a homogeneous group. They belong definiiely in the same class with the other Iron Age Nordics of Lausitz Urnfields inspiration, and more particularly the purely long-headed element in the Keltic blend, for the low vault and cylindrical transverse profile of the Keltic crania are also common here. Except for the lesser breadth of head and face, and greater vault length, they closely resemble the Keltic crania of Gaul and of the British Isles, and those of the Scythians, while they are virtually identical with the Armenian Iron Age skulls discussed in the last section. The Danish Iron Age crania, then, are probably the same as those of the ancestral proto-Kelts before their arrival in southwestern Germany, and of the ancestors of the Scythians and eastern Iranians. These Danes were a tall people, however, for the stature of 25 males was 171.5 cm. This agrees with that of the earlier peoples of the same region, and with that of the Scythians.

    In this Danish series there was, without doubt, a selection on the basis of differential methods of disposal of the dead; the numerous Bronze Age population, compounded of Megalithic, Borreby, and Corded elements, could not have disappeared completely. After the various elements in the Danish population have had time to blend, we shall see them reappear.

    The Swedish population of the Iron Age, best represented by a smaller group of 14 males72 (see Appendix I, col. 40), was essentially the same as that in Denmark. There are, however, a few differences - the vault is higher, the face wider, the upper face shorter. Perhaps these more peripheral Scandinavians showed a little of the older blood.

    During the Iron Age, Norway was, for the first time, definitely settled by people comparable in civilization to those in Denmark and southern Sweden; it is likely that many of the earlier inhabitants of Jutland and the Danish archipelago had fled to the southwestern corner of that country, while other migrations came across from southern and central Sweden.

    The most extensive Iron Age series from Norway is that of Schreiner, which contains 27 male crania.73 (See Appendix I, col. 41.) These are quite different from those of either Denmark or Sweden. They are larger and much more rugged, with heavy browridges and strong muscular markings. Metrically, they approach the Upper Palaeolithic series of Morant; and they could fit easily into the range of the central European Aurignacian group. The Mesolithic crania of Stångenäs and MacArthur's Cave would not be out of place here. Yet in most dimensions, they fall a little short of the Upper Palaeolithic mean.

    ...

    Although there is not much data concerning the physical type of these eastern Germans, there is enough to enable us to come to some definite conclusions. A series of Goths from the Chersonese north of the Black Sea, dated between 100 B.C. and 100 A.D., includes three male and eight female skeletons.76 All of these are long headed, and they belong to a large, powerful Nordic type which reflects their Swedish origin, for they are no different from the Swedish Iron Age crania which we have already studied.

    A later group of Gepidae dated from the fifth or sixth centuries in Hungary shows the persistence of this same type; despite historical blending with the Huns, of eight skulls at our disposal, all but three fail to show definite traces of mongoloid mixture, and in these three the non-Nordic traits are not manifested metrically. One is forced to the conclusion from this series, as from that of the Goths in the Chersonese, that the East Germanic peoples who took part in these wanderings preserved their original racial characteristics so long as they retained their political and linguistic identity.

    The same conclusion results when one examines the Visigothic skulls from northern Spain which date from the sixth century A.D.77 Here a series combined from several cemeteries shows us exactly the same Nordic type, with tall stature and with a high-vaulted skull, a long face, and a broad law; in this respect resembling, in a sense, the earlier Hallstatt crania, but more particularly those of the western Germanic group, especially the Hannover Germans and the Anglo-Saxons.

    The western branch of Germanic-speaking peoples, while historically less spectacular, was destined to be far more important in the eventual peopling of Europe. This included the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxons, of the Frisians, and of the Germans proper. Among the latter may be listed the Franks, the Alemanni, the Bavarians, the Thuringians, and the Chatti, whose descendants are the Hessians. Under the Franks may be listed the ancestors of the Flemish- and Dutch-speaking peoples whose closely related languages are a mixture of low Franconian and Saxon elements. All of these peoples worked their way southward, and in some cases westward, gradually and without ostentation; the Alemanni to Switzerland and Austria, the Bavarians to the principality which bears their name, the Thuringians to Bohemia as well as to Thuringia, and the Franks to the upper Rhine country, Belgium, and France. The Burgundians, members of the eastern branch of Germans, sophisticated like the Goths from contact with the Roman Empire, crossed the Rhine ahead of the Franks, and occupied Rhenish Gaul at the same time that the Vandals were admitted under Roman sanction.

    The prototype of the western German peoples who migrated from the region about the mouth of the Elbe is well represented by a series of skulls from Hannover which includes 41 male crania.78 (See Appendix I, col. 42.) Metrically, these differ from the Danish Iron Age skulls in being slightly longer, somewhat broader, and considerably higher. The foreheads are broader, and the face is wider, and in many cases a bit longer. These skulls deviate from the normal Nordic type of central European origin with which we are familiar in their greater size and roibusticity, and particularly in their greater vault height.

    The skulls of the Anglo-Saxons who invaded England in the fourth and fifth centuries of the present era79 (see Appendix I, col. 43) are almost identical with this Hannover group. It is to this same specific category that the Spanish Visigothic skulls to which we have already referred belong. To it must be added two series of old Frisians from northern Holland,80 which are identical in every respect. The skulls of these old Saxons, old Hanoverians, and old Frisians differ in a number of ways from those of other Nordics which we have studied. They arc larger than the Aunjetitz group and the Danes, and in fact any other series of Indo-European speakers that we have met, except the Norwegians. They lack the low vault and sloping forehead common to the earlier Nordics of Denmark, the Gauls, and the Scyths. The vault is moderately high; while the cranial index is on the border of dolicho- and mesocephaly. Compared with the other Nordics, the forehead is relatively straight, the browridges are greater, the muscular markings more pronounced, the cranial base wider, the face longer and somewhat wider.

    The type represented by these three groups and by the Visigoths seems to be a variant of the Nordic type to which the early Indo-European speakers belonged. Its difference is one of size, and it appears to have attained this distinction through a mixture, in southern Scandinavia and Germany, between the older local population, consisting of a combination of Megalithic, Corded, and Borreby elements, and the purely Nordic Danish Iron Age group. The resultant type approaches in some respects, but does not even approximate in size, the coastal Norwegian population which we have already studied, and it deviates far less from the central European Nordic than does the Norwegian group.

    This physical type is accompanied by tall stature, of about 170 cm., and by a considerable heaviness and robusticity of the long bones. The bodily build was clearly heavier and thicker set than that of the previously studied Nordics. That it was characteristically blond is attested by the pigmentation of living examples as well as by numerous early descriptions. This type, being a mixed variety of central European Nordic combined with old northwestern European elements, is not a true Nordic in the sense in which the word has been used in this work, and its common and exclusive designation as Nordic in popular parlance as in scientific works is responsible for much of the confusion prevalent in the identification of that racial type today. Since it is found among both West and East Germans of the period of dispersal, it is essentially the Germanic or Teutonic racial type. The eccentric linguistic position of the Germanic peoples in the total Indo-European family has its racial connotations.

    Source: C. Coon, TROE (1939)
    I highlighted the parts about Swedes, East-Germanics and West-Germanics.

    With the term typical I meant that judging from this pic this individual indeed looks as one of these Germanic types or is inbetween. Coon (as a splitter) uses various North-European subtypes to describe it, Von Eicksted (more a lumper) just used the term Nordid. However the description concerning the shape, broadness et such is ver good and understandable.

    The series noted down are the average per populations, it does not mean that every man within that population looked the same as the average type offcourse.. every population has its Laurel and Hardy .

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    Hardly surprising to find an Anglo-Saxon skeleton buried in England, is it?


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