How different do Albanians and Greeks look?

[Scholarios]

to be honest kastrioti, I don't know we can say for certain what are ancient epirote customs, or that such customs were uniform. I do know Albanian invasions into Epirus are recorded in the Middle Ages. In addition, if Tosks are descendants of Illyrians as Ghegs, then there should be Illyrian toponyms in Greece, especially in Epirus, but there aren't. Ok, maybe 2 or 3... but otherwise, there are far more Thracian toponyms in Greece than Illyrian. Furthermore, we know that Halstatt culture of Illyrians does not transfer to Epirus, at least not the territories of what are today Greek Epirus and Albanian "Northern Epirus".



...Nor was this Greek speech derived from the Corinthians and Corinthian colonists; for the dialect of the inscriptions was not Corinthian Doric (indeed even the alphabet was not Corinthian). It was evidently their own traditional Greek, probably West Greek, as some recorded inquiries as Dodona seem to show.
p. 434, The Cambridge Ancient History, by D. M. Lewis,John Boardman,Simon Hornblower,M. Ostwald ,1994]



Now, since some here define everything solely by blood, I do not deny that Tosks clearly have Epirote "blood"...but that the culture of ancient Epirotes was distinctly Greek, not Illyrian. I guess I am willing to stand corrected on this, but I do think the evidence is stacked against it.

[Kalimtari]

I don't regard Greeks as bad looking. They enjoy enough food/nutrients, good health care + that special "Mediterranean pep" in their look. Younger generations are quite handsome in general.

[el22]

Stick to licking Enver Hoxha's balls.

This only shows your poor character, and the ghetto mentality of those who found it worthy of a thumbs up.

[Kalimtari]

to be honest kastrioti, I don't know we can say for certain what are ancient epirote customs, or that such customs were uniform. I do know Albanian invasions into Epirus are recorded in the Middle Ages. In addition, if Tosks are descendants of Illyrians as Ghegs, then there should be Illyrian toponyms in Greece, especially in Epirus, but there aren't. Ok, maybe 2 or 3... but otherwise, there are far more Thracian toponyms in Greece than Illyrian. Furthermore, we know that Halstatt culture of Illyrians does not transfer to Epirus, at least not the territories of what are today Greek Epirus and Albanian "Northern Epirus".





...Nor was this Greek speech derived from the Corinthians and Corinthian colonists; for the dialect of the inscriptions was not Corinthian Doric (indeed even the alphabet was not Corinthian). It was evidently their own traditional Greek, probably West Greek, as some recorded inquiries as Dodona seem to show.
p. 434, The Cambridge Ancient History, by D. M. Lewis,John Boardman,Simon Hornblower,M. Ostwald ,1994]



Now, since some here define everything solely by blood, I do not deny that Tosks clearly have Epirote "blood"...but that the culture of ancient Epirotes was distinctly Greek, not Illyrian. I guess I am willing to stand corrected on this, but I do think the evidence is stacked against it.

would like to ask you your opinion about the origin of ancient Epirotes, because there is a debate between Greeks and Albanians about this issue, and I have confused. I have read the arguments of Greeks and Albanians about the origin of ancient Epirotes.

The arguments of Greeks
1. Herodotus, the father of History, wrote that ancient Epirotes were Greek Dorians.
2. Archeologists have found ancient transcripts in Epirus written in Greek Dorian. So ancient Epirotes were Greek and their language was Greek.
3. Ancient Epirotes worshiped in ancient Greek gods.
4. Ancient Epirotes had Greek names.
5. The coins of ancient Epirotes were Greek.
6. All the modern historians, linguists and archeologists accept that ancient Epirotes were Greeks.
7. The majority of the population of Epirus in 19th century AD were Greeks, and these people were descendants of ancient Greek Epirotes.
8. Greeks lived and still live in north Epirus, but Albanians have eliminated them now.

The arguments of Albanians
1. The ancient Greek historian Thoucydides wrote that Epirotes were barbarians. The term barbarian means that they didn't speak Greek and they were not Greeks.
2. The ancient geographer Strabo did not consider Epirus as a part of Greece.
3. Other ancient Greek geographer wrote that the first Greek city was Acarnania, and that this city located after Epirus.
4. An ancient geopgrapher wrote "After Illirians and Epirotes, Greeks exist''. So Epirotes were not Greeks.
5. The Greek transcripts in Epirus does not prove that Epirotes were Greeks. Epirotes were Illyrians/Albanians and they were influenced from the Greek Corinthians, a Dorian tribe of south Greece, who colonized Epirus. So Epirotes learnt Greek and adopted to ancient Greek religion.
6. If Epirus was a Greek land, why ancient Greeks made colonies in Epirus?
7. Descendants of Illyrians are Chams Albanians, who lived in south Epirus. Chams were the majority of the population in south Epirus, and especially in Chameria. Modern Greeks expelled them, they brought Greeks in these territories and in this way Epirus became Greek.

What do you think? Who is right?
In Wikipedia it says that ancient Epirotes were Greeks.


...


First of all it is irrelevant what Greeks and Albanians say in forums. Modern politics have nothing to do with archaeology and linguistics. You just stick to what the mainstream academia and logic says.

Now, lets start with the basics:

1) Greece was not originally a place of Greek-speakers

There were language(s) of the neolithic era that were spoken in Greece such as Minoan or whatever is rendered in Linear A and Cretan hieroglyphics. North Western Greece has now documented findings of such a culture.

2) Proto-Indoeuropean ancestors of the Greek, Phrygian and Armenian speakers settled in the Balkans (Northern Greece, South-East Albania, South FYRO Macedonia) between 2400-2200 B.C. Illyrians didn't reach the current Greek borders before 900 B.C. If Epirus had other ethinicities except from Greek-speakers, there are other hotter candidates than the Illyrians.

3) There's a dialect group of Greek called North-Western Greek which is undecided whether it is a subgroup of Doric or a separate group. The dialects that are included in North-Western Greek are: Epirotan,Acarnanian,Aetolian,Locrian,Phocian,Elean . All of those dialect are well documented nowadays and date from archaic years. There's no doubt they are Greek.

4) Initially V. Georgiev placed proto-Greek mainly in Epirus. This is the common accepted view today amongst linguists. Minor modifications on the original model have been made in relation to the total area proto-Greek spread initially.

Click the image to open in full size.

5) Eleans were named barbarians most of the times by other Greeks, nevertheless, they spoke a vulgar Greek dialect and they were the ones to decide if your ass was Greek enough to participate in the Olympics. Foreign mother? Sorry dude, you're not Greek enough according to the Eleians.

6) It is highly improbable that such a religious sanctuary as Dodone, would be placed outside the Greek world.

7) The placename Ήπειρος - ɛːpeiros and the ethnic Ἠπειρῶται - ɛːpeirɔːtae are an exact match in Greek and mean "mainland" - "inhabitants of the mainland".

8) The name Molossos, is a pre-Greek name. It is neither Greek or "Illyrian". Most people called Molossos are attested in Asia Minor. All the -ssos, -ssa, -ssia, -nthos, -arna etc placenames are pre-Indo-European, shared between Greece and Western Anatolia.


http://historum.com/ancient-history/...albanians.html

[Ushtari]

This is how Kosovar Albanians look

A crowd video from Prishtina

[Kastrioti1443]

This is how Kosovar Albanians look

A crowd video from Prishtina

That vidio is a good representation, I saw a lot of faces that look like my cousins or relatives, but There are a lot of non-ethnic albanians there since Prishtina is a capital, these 3 vidios where you have only ethnic albanians are much more of better examples:

[Ianus]

Albanians are more Alpine,Dinarid and Pontid, Gheg Albanian look more Borreby/Dinarid/Pontid.

[Linebacker]

Albanians are pred Neolithic farmers with all that E1b(EV13)there,Greeks have a good amount of E1b too but significantly less.

If Albos claim to be the "Ancient Illyrians" which is about as legit as Fyromians being ancient Macedon,they would have no problem being typical in a Greek crowd.

[Dukagjini]

Tbh I don't think Albanians and Greeks look all that similar. I can distinguish a Greek from an Albanian, fairly easily. There is some overlap though, which both Greeks and Albanians can't deny.