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Probably live-in maids and garden boys.Originally Posted by Desert Fox
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BECAUSE it is such a small community, it takes one family moving in to make a big difference to population and growth.You should move there and have many white babies ?
Well jokes aside, I think its 9% growth rate is pretty good for such a small community.
Yeah. Until 20 years ago we had one.Imagine an Afrikaner state in the future
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BECAUSE it is such a small community, it takes one family moving in to make a big difference to population and growth.
Yeah. Until 20 years ago we had one.
Some nationalists are proposing this,
if they get possible will you move? do you think it can happen?
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Seems like a nice idea. It's their private land and they're free to do whatever they want there. Such communities are basically one of the main ideals of libertarianism.
But personally I can't even imagine living in a small backwater place like this. I feel miserable outside of megalopolises like LA/London/Moscow. Even Rome/Warsaw is a stretch.
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Public opinion surveys:Some nationalists are proposing this,
if they get possible will you move? do you think it can happen?
In January 2010, Die Beeld, an Afrikaans newspaper, held an online survey. Out of 11019 respondents, 56% (6178) said that they would move to a Volkstaat if one were created, a further 17% (1908) would consider it while only 27% (2933) would not consider it as a viable option. The newspaper's analysis of this was that the idea of a Volkstaat was doodgebore (stillborn) and that its advocates had been doing nothing but tread water for the past two decades, although it did suggest that the poll was a measure of dissatisfaction among Afrikaners. Hermann Giliomee later cited the Beeld poll in saying that over half of "northern Afrikaners" would prefer to live in a homeland.
Legal basis:
Section 235 of the South African Constitution allows for the right to self-determination of a community, within the framework of "the right of the South African people as a whole to self-determination", and pursuant to national legislation. This section of the constitution was one of the negotiated settlements during the handing over of political power in 1994. The Freedom Front was instrumental in including this section in the constitution. No national legislation in this regard has yet been enacted for any ethnic group, however.
International legislation presents a recourse for the establishment of a Volkstaat over and above than what the South African Constitution offers. This legislation is available to all minorities who wish to obtain self-determination in the form of independence. The requirements set by international legislation are explained by Prof C. Lloyd Brown-John of the University of Windsor, Ontario as follows: "A minority who are geographically separate and who are distinct ethnically and culturally and who have been placed in a position of subordination may have a right to secede. That right, however, could only be exercised if there is a clear denial of political, linguistic, cultural and religious rights." The rights awarded to minorities were formally enshrined by the United Nations General Assembly when it adopted resolution 47/135 on 18 December 1992. However, it is questionable whether this applies to Afrikaners, as there is no municipality in South Africa in which white, Afrikaans-speaking citizens represent a majority, so Afrikaners are not "geographically separate".
Movements for the Volkstaat:
The Freedom Front has been the major political driving force for the formation of a Volkstaat. This Afrikaner-focused political party has representation in the national Parliament as well as several Provincial legislatures in South Africa. Support for this party has however decreased to just under 140,000 votes, being less than 1% of the total votes cast (approximately 20% among registered Afrikaner voters) by the 2004 National elections. The Freedom Front advocates following the Belgian, Canadian and Spanish models of granting territorial autonomy to linguistic minorities, believing it the only way to protect the rights of Afrikaner people. Under this policy, it proposes the creation of an Afrikaner homeland, comprising the area that lies in the North Western Cape between the West Coast and the Orange River.
The Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging made headlines in March 2008 for their re-activation and plans of establishing an independent Boer state. Plans include a demand for land, such as Stellaland and Goshen, that they claim is legally theirs in terms of the Sand River Convention of 1852 and other historical treaties, through the International Court of Justice in The Hague if necessary.
Die Boeremag (Boer force/power) was a violent Boer separatist organisation. Most of its members were arrested in 2003, and are currently facing charges of treason. Similar violent methods towards Volkstaat were employed by the Orde van die Dood in the 1980s.
Governmental response:
On Thursday 5 June 1998, Mohammed Valli Moosa (then minister of constitutional development in the ANC government) stated during a parliamentary budget debate that "the ideal of some Afrikaners to develop the North Western Cape as a home for the Afrikaner culture and language within the framework of the Constitution and the charter of human rights is viewed by the government as a legitimate ideal".
The Volkstaat Council was an organisation of 20 people, created by the South African government, via the Volkstaat Council Act in 1994. This was in accordance with sections 184A and 184B of the 1993 South African Constitution, which state: "The Council shall serve as a constitutional mechanism to enable proponents of the idea of a Volkstaat to constitutionally pursue the establishment of such a Volkstaat…". The members, all sympathizers of the volkstaat idea, were: Johann Wingaard, a retired industrialist and chairman of the council, Dirk Viljoen, a town planner (vice-chairman), Anna Boshoff, daughter of Hendrik Verwoerd, her son Carel, the nuclear scientist Wally Grant, Chris de Jager, Mars de Klerk and Hercules Booysen, three jurists, Ernest Pienaar, former general in the South African Defence Force, "Natie" Luyt, Piet Liebenberg, Chris Jooste and Pikkie Robbertze, four academics, Koos Reyneke, an architect, Douw Steyn, a senior member of the civil defence system, Herman Vercueil from the Transvaalse Landbou-unie, Kobus Visser, a former head of the CID, Flip Buys, an executive of the Labor Union Solidariteit, Duncan du Bois, a local politician in Durban and Riaan Visagie, a teacher.
The council's funding was terminated in 1999, without the council being formally disbanded. The council produced a final report, making three key recommendations:
That areas with an Afrikaner majority should enjoy "territorial self-determination". Areas identified included the region around Pretoria, and a region of the Northern Cape Province.
That the government establish an "Afrikaner Council", as an advisory board to the government. "Representation in parliament, where numerical power is all that mattered, was not seen as a democratic system for minorities."
That the government create legislation enacting the other two points. Draft legislation for the Afrikaner Council was provided.
The provisions in the constitution allowing for formation of the council were removed in 2001, by the Repeal of Volkstaat Council Provisions Act, in accordance with the original act.
Johann Wingard, chair of the council, expressed the view in 2005 that he doubted if any government official ever opened any of the reports to read them. Additionally, he stated that only a "civil war" would ever enable Afrikaners to gain independence in any part of South Africa. The opposite is suggested, however, by the fact that then deputy president, Thabo Mbeki, and then Minister of Home Affairs, Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi, quoted figures from Volkstaat Council reports in a report to parliament in 1999. Nelson Mandela, the president at the time, specially requested that the delivery of the report be delayed until he could attend its presentation personally.
Subsequent to the disbanding of the Volkstaat Council, the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities was established in 2003. This committee is charged with the protection of the rights to cultural identity of all self-identifying groups in South Africa, including Afrikaners. The committee includes an Afrikaner, JCH Landman, who is also a member of the Afrikaner Alliance. The reports from the Volkstaat Council were to be handed over to this committee.
The ANC government formalised their stance on the issue in 1998-1999, when they declared that they would not support a Volkstaat, but would do everything they could to ensure the protection of the Afrikaner language and culture, along with the other minority cultures in the country.
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Yeah, apparently they've been wanting it for 20 years now. And they will want it for the next 200 years but it won't happen. 20 000 people in Orania which is on someone's farm, yes. Not all Afrikaners support this nonsense. In fact, MOST of them don't because the greater majority of them are not far rightists. It's only some the far right who want something like this. If Orania was so fantastic, why are only 20 000 people living there? If it is such a great concept, why is there only ONE Orania and not many more?Some nationalists are proposing this,
if they get possible will you move? do you think it can happen?
For those who want to live in Orania, fantastic. If it makes them happy, then who am I to argue. Anyone can do with their own private land what they want to, like in the case of Orania. Is the state just going to give such a large piece of land a few thousand? Not going to happen.
This is Orania. Lovely climate.
If they like the climate in Orania, no wonder they want the Northern Cape! That's why the Northern Cape is so already so overpopulated. You can see in the pictures just how crowded it is there.
Would I go live there? If it was just the Northern Cape without the Right Wing Nationalist Afrikaners, yes. I wouldn't move to a seaside resort for free if it was full of them.
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That's a bit of an oxymoron as they are a nation completely fixated on the past! Even to this day there is strong resentment towards English South Africans due to the Boer War and that was over 110 years ago! Little thought is given to the fact that they have fought in three major conflicts since then (WW1, WW2, and the border war of the 70's and 80's). An Afrikaner state of the future would not be that much different to what they had before - ultra-conservative, macho patriarchal, dominated by the "state" church doctrine preaching a rather skewered belief in them being gods chosen people. They are not tolerant of change in most senses of the word and anything they don't understand they are automatically against and see it as a threat to their "Afrikanerdom".Imagine an Afrikaner state in the future
It will be cold day hell when the new government gives them all that land to form their little "volkstaat" - especially now that there might be millions of dollars worth of natural gas right in the middle of it!!!
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what exactly do you want to be discussed in this thread ?
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