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Thread: 24,000 year old Y DNA R AND MTDNA U FOUND IN SIBERIA!!!!

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    Melon head what your saying is totally wrong. Y DNA is just a direct male line. Almost 100% of R1b in west Europe is under deep subclade R1b1a2a1a L11 which is estimated to be just 5,000-6,000 years old. 31 y DNA samples from Neolithic west Europe not one had R1b. R1b1a2a1a L11 probably originated in central Europe and its main subclades P312 and U106 spread mainly in the last 4,000 years. It is definitely also the spread of Germanic and Italo Celtic tribes. 50% of west European men direct male line was in Caucus, Near east, or Anatolia just 8,000 years ago. But that is just direct male line R1b in no way defines Europeans.

    Autosomal DNA which takes ancestry from all lines not just direct maternal or paternal. There are Dodecade K7b, K12b, and globe13 results from 5 Europeans from Mesolithic, Neolithic, and copper age. All definitely non R1b and R1a and non Indo European. They show that the genetic makeup in modern Europeans was there and R1a, R1b, and Indo Europeans don't define Europeans at all. What the results show is that North Euro in globe13 and K12b is from pre Neolithic Europe and may descend from people who came tow Europe from the Near east over 30,000 years ago. It also shows that Meditreaen, west Asian, and southwest Asian came to Europe with spread of farming.


    mtDNA and autosomal DNA of European hunter gathers seems to say that in pre Neolithic Europe people in Sweden, Spain, Italy, France, Russia, Germany, England all were very united genetically they had the same common ancestry that came to Europe in the Palaeolithic maybe over 30,000ybp.The spread of farming from the near east brought many new mtDNA and Y DNA haplogroups and new autosomal ancestry. Since really the Neolithic there have been constant migrations of different people mixing conquering's tons of stuff. All of this created the crazy mix's that are everywhere in Europe today and major differences between different Europeans also in Physical appearance.

    You simplify race you cant base everything on physical appearance you have to be base it on DNA. The Oceania have black skin and nappy hair pretty much completely identical to sub sahran Africans but are very unrelated. It is hard to connect Y DNA direct male lines to certain human races. We know through Autosomal DNA that Europeans, north Africans, and middle easterns are in the same family or race. Since Y DNA I is very diverse in Europe and a very old age in Europe probably 30,000 years or so and same for y DNA J I the middle east. It makes sense that their father y DNA IJ did exist over 40,000ybp in Caucasians in the Near east. Probably same for y DNA F and C.
    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...es-from-Iberia

    Read and weep, FH, You could not be more wrong.

    The retarded fantasy that H spread into europe from the east is now utterly destroyed. Considering basques are 80% r1b and 80% H as well, the idea r1b came along with it is now in the same category with phlogistonite, and good riddance.

    I know you think I am somehow biased in wanting r1b to come out of iberia (lol) but it's more that this is the only thing that made any sense. Maybe it originates in north africa or something but at any rate it's been there a long time and the basques have been right where they are a long time as well.

    This theory has always been wholly internet psuedoscience with no paper to back it up so really this should be no shock.
    Out Of Africa Theory is a lie.
    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...88#post3431588
    And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blogen View Post
    Yes, once time the CM was a swarthy type too (R time), but the Cromagnoids (and the Lapponoids) are indigenous and pale skinned at this time in the Mesolithic Europe and the Cromagnoids were in Eastern Europe and maybe Western Siberia originally and they moved to East (Altay, Mongolia) slowly. They are attached to the R1a type presumably. The swarthy neolithic newcomers (R1b) are the Mediterranids, the proto-Nordics, the Dinarids and Taurid forms, etc. Later a part of theirs are depigmented too, like the Cromagnoids and Lapponoids earlier
    1. which part is related with yamna R1b?
    2. So it was impossible for yamna R1b to migrate to the Afanasievo of Paleoeuropoid R1b. right?

    The Central Asian Proto-Europids and Europo-Mongoloids:

    "38 men’s and 16 women’s skulls obtained from the burials of Maslyakha 1 and 2 (Krutikha district, Altaj kraj) burial grounds have been investigated. The latter have been referred to the Kamenka archaeological culture and dated to the 3rd–1st centuries В.С. Аnalysis of the craniological materials showed that in the said chronological period the territory of North Altaj was inhabited by the Eurasian population in which a Mongoloid admixture could be traced. The Eurasian stratum is related to the proto-European type to be present in the Andronovo population of the Bronze Age. The Моngoloid admixture is heterogenous: one of its parts is of the Central Asian origin while the other is of the forest West Siberian origin. Following ethnogenetic relations, one can trace relationship of the Kamenka culture population with the Sakas as well as with bearers of the Sargatka culture and Savromatae-Sarmatian groups."
    Ryikun M. P.: Materials on Craniology of the North Altay population in the Early Iron Age (Kamenka culture) - Bulletin of Archeology, Anthropology and Ethnography, 1999 Vol 2

    "In the late 3rd to early 2nd millennium B.C. the Afanasievo Culture emerged in northern Mongolia. The Afanasievo Culture had a cattle breeding economy mainly known from the kurgan cemeteries in the Minusinsk Basin and in the Gorny Altai region. Sites in both areas have been studied extensively. In Mongolia, Afanasievo cemeteries have been discovered on both the western and eastern slopes of the Hangai Mountains in the vicinity of Altan Sandal (Gold Chair) and Shatar Chuluu (Stone Chest).

    The Afanasievo cultural ties were primarily with the west. Censer bowls found in Afanasievo burials are completely analogous with those from the southern Russian Catacomb burials. According to physical anthropologists the Afanasievo population was Paleo-European, descending from the Cro-Magnon people of Paleolithic Europe. It appears that the carriers of the Mongolian Afanasievo Culture were the easternmost Europoid tribes which populated Inner Asia at the dawn of the Bronze Age.

    As mentioned previously, the Afanasievo-type populations found in the Altan Sandal and Shatar Chuluu burials at Khangai have Europoid skulls. The people belonged to one of the most eastern and most ancient groups of Europoid tribes to inhabit Inner Asia. They also contrast sharply with the Paleo-Asiatic groups found in the Late Neolithic or Eneolithic complexes of eastern Mongolia. 9 This leads to the conclusion that cultural and anthropological differences between two groups, one in eastern and the other in western Mongolia, appear to have developed at the onset of the Bronze Age."

    "The physical appearance of the Saka in eastern Kazakhstan is essentially the same as that of the previous Bronze Age population (Ismagulov, 1965). However, some skulls of the Saka Period display Mongoloid admixture, particularly prominent among the female skulls. This has led the anthropologists to conclude that Europoid and Mongoloid admixture had occurred only recently (Ginzburg and Trofimova, 1972, pp. 119,125,129,132)."

    "The distinct Mongoloid admixture found in the early Saka population in the lower Syr Darya River area seems to be strong evidence of eastern genetic ties. Moreover, archaeological evidence also confirms cultural contacts with the eastern
    regions. The lower Syr Darya Saka populations shared common cultural and genetic components with the steppe populations of Central Asia, Kazakhstan, and the Southern Siberian steppes dating from the Bronze Age which accounts for the strong contacts during the Early Iron Age."

    "People of similar physical appearance as those from the Tumek-Kichijik Cemetery formed the basis of the Bronze Age population who occupied the lower Volga River and southern Ural steppe areas. The second craniological variation is characteristic of the cemeteries of the Sakar-Chaga highland. These skulls are mesobrachiocephalic with moderately broad and relatively high faces. Some skulls are marked by flatness of their facial bones, exhibiting typical Mongoloid racial features. Skeletal material found in the contemporaneous Uigarak Cemetery is of a similar type. It is noteworthy that skeletal remains from the population groups dating to the Late Bronze Age and occupying areas of Southern Siberia and the Altai Mountains carried similar physical traits."

    "In physical appearance the Saka population of the Tien Shan and the Altai Mountains were not homogeneous (data summary: Ginzburg and Trofimova, 1972). In general, the Saka of the Tien Shan Mountains belong to the brachycephalic Europoids with a slight Mongoloid admixture found primarily among the females. The Saka of the western Altai Mountain range, northeast of the Pamir Mountains and south of the Tien Shan Mountains, had narrower crania and relatively small facial bones. They were more representative of the Europoid race with only a small Mongoloid admixture. The anthropological base of the Tien Shan Saka populations appears to have descended from Bronze Age steppe tribes originally from Kazakhstan and Southern Siberia, while, in contrast, the cranial variation of the Altai population is similar to that which is characteristic of contemporary Semirechiye tribes. In the eastern Pamir Mountains, the homogeneous Saka population were dolichocephalic Europoids with narrow and very high faces. Little doubt remains about the origin of the Pamir Saka. According to V. Ginzburg, they were carriers of the Mediterranean complex of cranial traits. The distinct physical differences between these tribes, and their contemporary neighbors occupying the Semirechiye and regions to the north, testify to the biological, but not cultural, isolation of the Pamir Saka."
    Jeannine Davis-Kimball (Editor), Vladimir A. Bashilov (Editor), Leonid T. Yablonsky: Nomads of the Eurasian Steppes in the Early Iron Age - Berkley, 1995
    7. In 3-2 milleniums B.C. in steppe zone of Eurasia from Dnieper to Altaye-Sayan region the similar in appearence to Paleoeuropoid type was widespread.
    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...oeuropoid-type
    Last edited by johen; 01-03-2017 at 05:52 PM.

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