Britain is more French than it thinks

**Roy** · 10-21-2013, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Uhtred

Interestingly the Welsh cluster close to the French. I wonder why, Cambro-Normans were not numerous.

Because of Brythonic people who migrated to Brittany in France.

**Prisoner Of Ice** · 10-21-2013, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Loki

No it isn't. Britain is less French than people generally think. People go on about 1066 and the Norman influence, but the Normans were a small number of ruling class people, and they did not immigrate en masse to Britain at all. In fact I reckon they have a very small genetic impact, almost negligible.

What you say about normans is true but the genetic similarities come before that, and likely gauls were same as celts to begin with. York was a viking kingdom just like normandy was, for example, but people completely forget about it. So you have a lot of the same influences. If you cut out south then it would be even more similar.

**Loki** · 10-21-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jackson

Yes from a genetic point of view, the French influence is extremely small, but culturally and linguistically, they had a rather significant impact. True we can speak without many or any French or Latin based words if we want, but we don't. In terms of politics, we were heavily intertwined for centuries, due to our overlords. We haven't really had home-grown rulers for a long time, ones that come from the elite extension of the base culture that is.

Yes, the influence was mostly cultural, not genetic.

**Rudel** · 10-21-2013, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Melonhead

What you say about normans is true but the genetic similarities come before that, and likely gauls were same as celts to begin with. York was a viking kingdom just like normandy was, for example, but people completely forget about it. So you have a lot of the same influences. If you cut out south then it would be even more similar.

After a few generations, the only thing Viking left about the Normands was their customary laws. They never immigrated in vast proportions anyways.

**Prisoner Of Ice** · 10-21-2013, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rudel

After a few generations, the only thing Viking left about the Normands was their customary laws. They never immigrated in vast proportions anyway.

Well, I know that's not completely true because of quebecois. It's mainly settled by normans with nordic genetics. It seems like the whole group came over en masse.

**Loki** · 10-21-2013, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Well, I know that's not completely true because of quebecois. It's mainly settled by normans with nordic genetics. It seems like the whole group came over en masse.

Interesting.

**Smaug** · 10-21-2013, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Roys

Because of Brythonic people who migrated to Brittany in France.

They are a minority concentrated in Brittany.

**WOOHP** · 10-21-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Uhtred

They are a minority concentrated in Brittany.

Oddly enough, Bretons don't strike me as very British looking. Not even particularly Welsh/SW English. But on the other hand they don't look very Norman either despite sharing border.

**Smaug** · 10-21-2013, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by WOOHP

Oddly enough, Bretons don't strike me as very British looking. Not even particularly Welsh/SW English. But on the other hand they don't look very Norman either despite sharing border.

They mixed with Gallo-Romans. Do they look French? I remember that in a conversation with Anthropologique you said Bretons were darker than Normans.

**WOOHP** · 10-21-2013, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Uhtred

They mixed with Gallo-Romans. Do they look French? I remember that in a conversation with Anthropologique you said Bretons were darker than Normans.

They do look like Atlanto-Alpinid Frenchmen, as a group though there's definitely something more odd about them. But I've said this before: the boundary between Normandie and Brittany is the strongest one within France.
There's both a Breton and a Norman thread here I think.