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Thread: How Celtic Are You?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    I very much doubt it.

    Anyway, if we want to talk of Celtic migrations there was one - of the Belgae into southern England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahson View Post
    What is the purpose of this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    Anyway, if we want to talk of Celtic migrations there was one - of the Belgae into southern England.
    Fir BOLG!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osweo View Post
    Fir BOLG!
    ...is corrupted folk memory of the actual post-LGM and subsequent settlements of Britain in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    ...is corrupted folk memory of the actual post-LGM and subsequent settlements of Britain in my opinion.
    In IREland?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osweo View Post
    In IREland?
    I meant to say British Isles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    I meant to say British Isles.
    But why go on about glaciations in the case of the Fir Bolg? It's a pretty straightforward case of recentISH Iron Age folk memory, n'est pas?

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    Stange map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthropologique View Post
    Stange map.
    I don't think so, it makes some sense to Dan Bradley's R1b projections it also correlates to the Kurgan hypothesis and help explain R1b. the came from the caspian sea, then there was the LGM so R1b's retreated to the penisula, and then after expanded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osweo View Post
    But why go on about glaciations in the case of the Fir Bolg? It's a pretty straightforward case of recentISH Iron Age folk memory, n'est pas?
    I highly doubt that it is so, Iron Age migrations were largely insignificant - especially in Ireland. As you may be able to tell, no I don't support that the Irish came from Galicia.
    I go with the theory that Q-Celtic came first and then changed to P-Celtic over much of its range due to contact between the Celtic tribes of these areas.

    I think the Irish settlement myths explain more than just the Iron Age, I think they start after the LGM and end at the Iron Age with the arrival of the Belgae in England.

    A casual analysis:

    Before the flood
    Flood of water or ice (glaciation)? Britain was inhabited before the last "Ice Age" as we all know.

    A second tradition, a variant of the Cessair legend he found in the Book of Druimm Snechta, said that the first inhabitants of Ireland were led by a woman called Banba, who gave her name to the island. She came with a hundred and fifty women and three men, who lived there for forty years before they all died of plague, two hundred years before the flood. Another tradition he records, but does not source, is that Ireland was discovered by three fishermen from Iberia who were washed there by a storm. They returned to Iberia, brought their wives and settled in Ireland a year before the flood, when they were drowned
    Iberia: Post-LGM re-settlement of Britain was mainly from Iberia.

    Flood: Rising sea levels after LGM. Most importantly, folk memory of the Storegga Slide (which anhialated Doggerland and caused an incredible Tsunami).

    He also says that, according to "some of our authors", the Fomorians, led by Cichol Gricenchos, settled in Ireland a hundred years after the flood and lived there for two hundred years until they were defeated by Partholón and his followers in the Battle of Mag Ithe. The Fomorians are said to have lived on "fish and fowl",[7]
    Hunter Gatherers who settled Britain after the LGM who would have had a similar diet and existence to the tribes of British Colombia and in some places maybe permanent settlements too.

    and Partholón is said in the Lebor Gabála to have introduced cattle and houses to Ireland:
    Arrival of farming with a few immigrants, early Megaliths?

    Said to have been a descendant of Magog, son of Japheth, son of Noah, Partholón is said to have sailed from Greece, via Sicily, to Iberia, and from there to Ireland. He landed at Imber Scéne (Kenmare, County Kerry). His four oxen were the first cattle in Ireland. One of his followers, Brea, was the first to build a house, and another, Samailiath, was the first to brew ale
    Farmers

    Four more plains were cleared during Partholón's lifetime, and seven lakes burst from the ground. He and all his followers – five thousand men and four thousand women – died of plague in a single week, with one exception – Tuan mac Cairill, who, like Fintan, survived through a series of transformations and told the story of his people to St Finnian.[9]
    Deterioration of climate. Climate becomes colder and wetter which we know happened.
    The British Isles climate peaked at a warm temperature range and then declined from there leading to the spread of moorland, bogs ('seven lakes burst from the ground') and rough grassland (plains).
    We also know of this because Lime trees stopped germinating in large numbers in England, they need some warmth.
    Plague would have been set on by overpopulation and famine caused by the deterioration of large areas of the country leading to food shortage.

    Thirty years later another group, led by Nemed, arrived. The Lebor Gabála describes them as Greeks from Scythia, and says they sailed with forty-four ships, but only one ship survived to reach Ireland. Four lakes burst from the ground in Nemed's time, twelve plains were cleared, and three battles won against the Fomorians. Nemed eventually died of plague, and his descendants were subjected by the Fomorian leaders Morc and Conand, who demanded two-thirds of their children, wheat and milk as tribute.
    Beaker culture and small migrations?

    The next invaders were the Fir Bolg, who first established kingship and a system of justice in Ireland. One of their kings, Rinnal, was the first to use iron spear-points[citation needed]. According to a controversial theory of T. F. O'Rahilly, they represent a genuine historical people, the Builg or Belgae, associated further with the Iverni.
    Arrival of a few Celtic immigrants who spread the culture to Ireland (which would have fused with the native one).

    The Fir Bolg were displaced by the Tuatha Dé Danann or "Peoples of the goddess Danu", descendants of Nemed, who either came to Ireland from the north on dark clouds or burnt their ships on the shore to ensure they wouldn't retreat. They defeated the Fir Bolg king, Eochaid mac Eirc, in the first Battle of Magh Tuiredh, but their own king, Nuada, lost an arm in the battle. As he was no longer physically perfect he lost the kingship, and his replacement, the half-Fomorian Bres, became the first Tuatha Dé High King of Ireland.

    ...

    The Tuatha Dé are said to have brought chariots and druidry to Ireland.
    Internal migrations of tribes between Britain and Ireland - Galloway and Ulster and England or Wales and Leinster (Brigantes).

    The Tuatha Dé Danann were themselves displaced by the Milesians, descendants of Míl Espáine, a warrior who travelled the ancient world before settling in Iberia. Míl died without ever seeing Ireland, but his uncle Íth saw the island from a tower and led an advance force to scout it out. The three kings of the Tuatha Dé, Mac Cuill, Mac Cecht and Mac Gréine, had Íth killed. After his body was returned to Iberia, Míl's eight sons led a full-scale invasion.
    Roman adventurers who establish tribes and petty kingdoms. (Compare to Normans) Yup, controversial eh?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythological_Cycle

    Those are just my casual observations anyway, no doubt you'll pick fault.

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