Why Russia's enemies hate Putin

[Atlantic Reptilian]

What I noticed is some posters argument is based on their personal baggage. It has nothing to do with 21st century geopolitics.

Depends on. Many people have good reasons for wanting to avoid the east European/Russian hegemony. It was because people wanted autonomy, and the Soviet Union (in the past) was an antagonist to that; things would've been controlled by the Kremlin. As you can see, today, most countries of the eastern block got independence.

As for the personal baggage, the same applies for the pro-Russian side.

I'm no fan of Russia but I am a fan of objectivity.

Oh, really? What about the skeletons you have in your closet?

That is the reality. This conflict has nothing to do with people's personal family history. Dragoon is Polish and I'm sure he has some issues with Russia/Soviet Union historically but he's living in 2023 and can make the distinction. Different people and different agendas than a century ago. Most people can't see past their own personal baggage.

But the thing is that people's history was decided by other people, and those are the people others want to avoid. This is the case whether you are talking about Western or Russian empires. Since some politicians are very good at convincing others, and of those being convinced are gullible enough to fall for it, it will happen.
It's called rhetoric; speaking of things that touch people's heart, their reason and instills credibility.

The way to dismantle someone's beliefs is to go to the core. If core is unstable, then you have an abnormality, and probably a fallacy - or someone who can't explain their reasoning at the moment.

[Aila]

The more you talk, the more you reveal about yourself....and your own inner hatred and bitterness. Russophobia is truly destructive to the soul, it eats you up on the inside and makes you a nasty, vengeful person. It's of the devil.

I have got no idea, whatsoever - what you are talking about.
You really seem to live in your own dreamworld. I recommend mindfulness meditation.

Of course - my “baggage” - both positive and negative, comes from the “Republic of Karelia” where ¾ of my ancestry came from.
The Azov fighter just totally threw me, because born in Finland and also amongst the family, I was never-ever taught hatred towards Russians – but this Azov fighter potentially could be a distant relative IF he is a descendant of the old Russian nobility:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denys_Prokopenko
Why they now hate Russians – perhaps Lemmi could explain ….?

Psycho-spiritually being more Saami than anything, we just do not have the fighting spirit, which actually is quite pathetic, so opposites attract & I really admire the spunk this dear Turk - Annihilus possesses.

[Aspirin]

Whoever loves Russia move to Russia. End of story.

[Alenka]

Whoever loves Russia move to Russia. End of story.

Whoever loves Ukraine move to Ukraine. End of story.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Depends on. Many people have good reasons for wanting to avoid the east European/Russian hegemony. It was because people wanted autonomy, and the Soviet Union (in the past) was an antagonist to that; things would've been controlled by the Kremlin. As you can see, today, most countries of the eastern block got independence.

As for the personal baggage, the same applies for the pro-Russian side.

As is usual, this is all irrelevant to the point I made or to the conflict in Ukraine. It's about national interests. Russia made it clear that the West should not meddle in Ukraine or Georgia and while we can all cry about national autonomy the US does same with nations in its backyard. This isn't a 'whataboutism' argument. It's pointing out the reality that you don't fuck with powerful nations when it isn't necessary. I don't want the US to get dragged any further in a war over Ukraine with Russia. Ukraine is irrelevant to US national interests and yet we created this current conflict to undermine Russia. This is another neo-Con war by proxy. All the same people who pushed for war in ME are the same ones pushing for conflict against Russia and it goes to show it doesn't matter if it's a Dem or a Rep in office.

Well, I guess there shouldn't have been a coup in 2014 Ukraine because people were so anti-Russian they wouldn't have needed the extra push. I remind you that international monitors had said the evil pro-Russian side that chose not to take a loan (which would have placed them in debt) from the West had been elected legitimately.

I don't see Russians posters, supporters, or people pointing out how nations behave in their interests referencing irrelevant historical information.

Oh, really? What about the skeletons you have in your closet?

Lolz, what skeletons are those? You're mad because I blew you off over the article on Bosnia that discussed the intelligence report because I didn't want to waste my time with you. What do I have to gain for painstakingly finding every excerpt (from well over two thousand pages) only for you to be the typical 'Muh people didn't do nuffin'" which you have consistently done on this forum. I'm not wasting my time. Go do a victory dance over me not catering to your needs. I already knew your response before you made it. I'm very familiar with muh people didndu nuffin' types.

But the thing is that people's history was decided by other people, and those are the people others want to avoid. This is the case whether you are talking about Western or Russian empires. Since some politicians are very good at convincing others, and of those being convinced are gullible enough to fall for it, it will happen.
It's called rhetoric; speaking of things that touch people's heart, their reason and instills credibility.

The way to dismantle someone's beliefs is to go to the core. If core is unstable, then you have an abnormality, and probably a fallacy - or someone who can't explain their reasoning at the moment.

You didn't address what I said but I appreciate you letting me know what you learned in class recently.

I'll tell you what I tell every ignorant person I encounter on this topic: click my signature. Mersheimer will assist you.

[Lemminkäinen]

I have got no idea, whatsoever - what you are talking about.
You really seem to live in your own dreamworld. I recommend mindfulness meditation.

Of course - my “baggage” - both positive and negative, comes from the “Republic of Karelia” where ¾ of my ancestry came from.
The Azov fighter just totally threw me, because born in Finland and also amongst the family, I was never-ever taught hatred towards Russians – but this Azov fighter potentially could be a distant relative IF he is a descendant of the old Russian nobility:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denys_Prokopenko
Why they now hate Russians – perhaps Lemmi could explain ….?

Psycho-spiritually being more Saami than anything, we just do not have the fighting spirit, which actually is quite pathetic, so opposites attract & I really admire the spunk this dear Turk - Annihilus possesses.

I am not aware of the Ukrainian history enough to see why someone hates Russians as much they seem to do, but Karelians lost they homes after the Winter War. 400000 Karelians moved to Finland after the Karelia was ceded. For West Finns the last serious war impact happened 300 years ago, but it was then enough to keep us far away from the Russian influence, if not in peace then through crosshair if necessary. Czar Peter the Great carried out a genocide. He wanted to empty vast areas to prevent Swedish army to get support from local people. So it was in his logic better to kill people. This said, I don't hate Russian people, only the Russian administration, because it repeatedly returns to same expansion politics.

[Foghorn]

You're just repeating the lies of Western propaganda, and their assets (i.e. Navalny) about Putin.

I have lived in Russia, so I am fairly familiar with how things work right now.
Genuine question - Do you believe that current Oligarchs are indeed best people to handle Russia's natural resources, or that they have been given that using some different criteria? Do you believe that Oligarchs ( and they do exist in Russia right now, no one can deny it ) are good thing for Russians and their people ?

I think otherwise.

[Foghorn]

You are honest. I appreciate you for that.

It is not about honesty, it is about reality.
As long as west is heavily focused on arming Ukraine, they are less likely to arm our enemies ( Bosnian Muslims, Albanians ) and their grip on Balkans is growing weaker.
China realized this long ago, and that is why Chinese money is flowing to Serbia left and right ( I am against it principally , but practically it is a good thing ) and they are buying old and ruined companies, restarting production in old copper/coal mines and steel plants.

So I hope this thing in Ukraine drags on as long as possible, until westoids ( people ) actually start to suffer and force their bloody governments to take care of their own and stop with interventionism.

[Loki]

I have lived in Russia, so I am fairly familiar with how things work right now.
Genuine question - Do you believe that current Oligarchs are indeed best people to handle Russia's natural resources, or that they have been given that using some different criteria? Do you believe that Oligarchs ( and they do exist in Russia right now, no one can deny it ) are good thing for Russians and their people ?

I think otherwise.

More lies! Putin dealt with most of the evil oligarchs long ago. Why is a rich person in the West called a "businessman", fully accepted by the likes of you, but in Russia it's called an "oligarch", automatically evil? And how about the evil oligarchs controlling Ukrainian economy? Remember Ukraine never had a Putin-like leader who cracked down on corruption. The Ukrainian regime itself is corrupt. Don't always project Ukraine's failures onto Putin.

You're definitely a troll.

[Aila]

I am not aware of the Ukrainian history enough to see why someone hates Russians as much they seem to do, but Karelians lost they homes after the Winter War. 400000 Karelians moved to Finland after the Karelia was ceded.

Yes, which is why, in the collective subconscious, we the descendants even - still love and foolishly sometimes feel duty of care nostalgia towards the old ancestral homelands going back to the Novgorod times (which I still think was a good system at its time) and beyond, plus stayed faithful to the old Orthodox Church.

Of course, this is the collective baggage people carry, but instead of stewing in some old bitterness, which Loki in his propaganda insists we must have, relatives engaged in programs to clean and fix the environmental problems and jointly with Finns were into construction, activity which only stopped now because of the war.

Therefore, the Karelian Azov fighter’s hate and bitterness baggage totally threw me, because I couldn’t understand where it was coming from. Having never been taught hatred and overcoming the bitterness of the past by all these positive co-operative programs for a better future; - building and mending bridges …. His attitude just made no sense. But he was not born in Finland, so his family must have been the ones who had stayed behind. And if he is a distant relative, then the other side of his ancestry might have been the ones who came from people with lots of nobility titles. Perhaps the people who in the past had belonged to noble families with entitlements have carried this bitter wound around since the revolution (?)
I can only guess.

I like this guy’s vlog:

Yes, he is very critical – but you just cannot fix the problems which you are not willing to acknowledge, which I think is the sole intent of this guy’s videos.

Pretending that everything is fantastic in Russia and everybody must hate Russians, just isn’t constructive.