Portuguese accent Celtic-influenced?

[2Cool]

I suggest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlZfo...feature=relmfu

It's a public performance of Molière & Lully's Bourgeois Gentilhomme, entirely made according to original conditions, with baroque instruments, only candle light, and French pronounciation of Louis the 14th era (strongly rolled r's, only half-nasals, most final consonants pronounced etc.).

You can skip the overture and hear the comedians' speech from 8.30.

Welcome to the time machine!

Interesting. What's really interesting is that some communities, usually small towns in Quebec, speak/spoke with rolled Rs. Sometimes you'll see older folks that speak like that. I guess that comes from old French.

[Ouistreham]

What's really interesting is that some communities, usually small towns in Quebec, speak/spoke with rolled Rs. Sometimes you'll see older folks that speak like that. I guess that comes from old French.

Yes. Uvular 'r' became standard in French in the early 19th century but still in the mid-20th many people routinely rolled their r's, especially in some provinces like Burgundy, Berry, Maine and Lower Normandy, as well as the whole South-West.

But at some point this became stereotyped and ridiculed as peasant speech, in the 60/70's (*). Now rolled 'r' is in terminal decline in France. A similar evolution started short after in Quebec.

(*)Two songs from that era, making fun of farmers and common countryside people:

[youtube]R0yjtl_sZJo[/youtube]

[youtube]mQ-EBbjmkLk[/youtube]

[Anthropologique]

Oh come on! Languages don't just vanish of the face of the earth, at the very least it would have left lots of dialect words in the local version of broken Latin.

A lot of rural areas can be conservative, a lot of these words would have survived in my opinion.

I agree.

No question Gaulish survived in Brittany, at the very least, residually after the migrations from southern Britain. At least one other French person contributing to the thread who is knowledgable on the subject concurs.

Bottom line: it's likely that Breton was impacted in some way by Gaulish.

[Wulfhere]

I agree.

No question Gaulish survived in Brittany, at the very least, residually after the migrations from southern Britain. At least one other French person contributing to the thread who is knowledgable on the subject concurs.

Bottom line: it's likely that Breton was impacted in some way by Gaulish.

Why is there "no question"?

It would appear that the last surviving pockets of Gaulish were in the far north-east of France, and in the centre. Both a very long way from Brittany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaulish#History

Celtic culture in Brittany is an import from Britain (there's a clue in the name, you see). An unpalatable fact for some, no doubt, but true nevertheless.

[Anthropologique]

Why is there "no question"?

It would appear that the last surviving pockets of Gaulish were in the far north-east of France, and in the centre. Both a very long way from Brittany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaulish#History

Celtic culture in Brittany is an import from Britain (there's a clue in the name, you see). An unpalatable fact for some, no doubt, but true nevertheless.

I'm certainly not at all bothered by the origins of Celticity in Brittany. The point that I am stressing is that the Breton language could have been influenced by Gaulish in some way since it was spoken in parts of Brittany prior to the migrations from England.

[Ouistreham]

the last surviving pockets of Gaulish were in the far north-east of France, and in the centre. Both a very long way from Brittany.

Wrong!

Roman presence was (logically) intense in the Mediterranean part of France, and more generally in the Southern half of the country (except for the mountainous districts of Auvergne), and was very important too in the North-East, for obvious strategical reasons, in front of the Germanic build-up along the Rhine.

But in the West/Northwest (Brittany, Maine, Anjou, Touraine, Normandy, Picardy, that weren't of any strategic value) there was little to no Roman presence. Consequently, if there was any region able to retain some Celtic culture for a longer time than elsewhere, it had to be there.

Thanks for playing, try again, good luck next time.

[Peter Nirsch]

It sounds like Brazilian

[Vasconcelos]

It sounds like Brazilian

Do you realize how insulting that is for Portuguese?
Not to mention false, both accents are clearly different

[Apina]

(I didn't read all the pages so what I say may have been suggested already)
I think that if any other language did influence the nasalisation of Portuguese it was French. When I went to Portugal and looked at some of the language, it surprised me the French influence on the vocabulary (much more so than e.g. in Spanish). Perhaps French could have influenced?

[Vasconcelos]

(I didn't read all the pages so what I say may have been suggested already)
I think that if any other language did influence the nasalisation of Portuguese it was French. When I went to Portugal and looked at some of the language, it surprised me the French influence on the vocabulary (much more so than e.g. in Spanish). Perhaps French could have influenced?

The writing influence is not French, but Occitan (close enough). Some of the writing forms were intruduced by an Occitan who became Bishop of Braga in 1100.