Who are the Romanians?

[ioas12]

Part of Serbs which settled in modern Central Ukraine (New Serbia in Russian Empire back in 18 century) also had this kind of dual naming. Not all Serbs but part of them.

I know but this is the 13 century back then the name vlach was used for the ethnic group. The term vlach that used for anyone who was shepherd came later

[DamCz]

Oldest inhabitants of Kosovo and Dardania are Albanians and there is enough evidence to show a continuity. Placenames
such as Naissus -> Nish, Astibos -> Shtip, Ulpiana -> Lipjan , Scupi -> Shkup follow Albanian sound changes and
you'll find good chunk of Albanian toponyms around these towns since the medieval period. Prizren too, the Llap region
in North-East Kosovo too. In the town of Novo Brdo Albanians were mentioned too in the medieval period.
Vlachs probably originated somewhere close to Albanians in this area. My guess would be the Nish area in what was ancient
Dardania. The name Dardania is explained from the Albanian word 'Dardhe/Darda'

[DamCz]

The Serbs are some tribe that invaded it in 12th-13th century, they are so desperate to try and connect themselves
with the ancient inhabitants of this territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expuls...7%E2%80%931878

Toponyms such as Arbanaška River, Arbanashko Hill, Arbanashka Mountain, Arnautski Potok, Arbanasce, Arbanashka Petrila, Arbanashka Brenica, Arbanas, Gjinofc Kulla, Marash, Gjinofc, Gjaka/Đjake, Kastrat, Arbanaška etc. shows an Albanian presence in the Toplica and Southern Morava regions (located north-east of contemporary Kosovo) and in the Preševo Valley since the late Middle Ages.[22][23][24][25] Albanians in the region were Orthodox Christians, were in contact with Slavic populations and as such many also bore Orthodox Slavic names such as in the village Arbanas, the name of the inhabitants were: Stojan, Dajin, Dane Stojan, Mati Marko, Andrija Marko, Dimsha Marko, Luka Gjurko, Nikolla Luka, Pjetri Dimja, Stojan Pjetri, Gjura Marko, Lazar Stepa, Gjura Pejash etc.[26]

Dardania was one of the least Romanized regions in the Balkans, it was later invaded by different tribes Romans, Bulgars, Serbs... some of the native population probably moved into the mountains of Albania while some stayed, before later returning back.

[Varda]

Where they vlachs or serbs ? It's kinda weird to call them both

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5699#msg195699
But when ancestors of these dukes with own people, arrived to Maramures? Old Russian chronicles tell that king Laszlo asked help from Rome and Constantinople 1284-1285 because he was afraid of Tatar invasion. Significant help came from Ibar area in present day Serbia. These Romanians (Vlachs) from Ibar area, together with Hungarians defeated Tatars in the upper valley of Tisa, since they did not want to return in their homeland king settled them in Maramures.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5700#msg195700
There is reliable sources except old 'Russian chronicle.' It is more likely they arrived by command of Stefan Milutin. In that time Hungarian king Laszlo IV gave to Dragutin (Milutin's brother) Mačva with Belgrade and regions Soli and Usora in present day northern Bosnia and he ruled these regions independently and called himself Syrmian king. In the same time crisis caused by Tatars in Bulgarian increased... If Serbs or Vlachs were comming from Ibar area to Zakarpatya, to fight for Hungarians, they must have been sent by Serbia not by Byzantine.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5686#msg195686

In late 13th century entire Ibar river was in Serbia, it was in
Serbia for centuries before that. Chrysobull of Serbian king Milutin from early 14th century refers at Vlach katuns in present day northern Kosovo (river Ibar is there) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Stephen_Chrysobull

[ioas12]

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5699#msg195699
But when ancestors of these dukes with own people, arrived to Maramures? Old Russian chronicles tell that king Laszlo asked help from Rome and Constantinople 1284-1285 because he was afraid of Tatar invasion. Significant help came from Ibar area in present day Serbia. These Romanians (Vlachs) from Ibar area, together with Hungarians defeated Tatars in the upper valley of Tisa, since they did not want to return in their homeland king settled them in Maramures.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5700#msg195700
There is reliable sources except old 'Russian chronicle.' It is more likely they arrived by command of Stefan Milutin. In that time Hungarian king Laszlo IV gave to Dragutin (Milutin's brother) Mačva with Belgrade and regions Soli and Usora in present day northern Bosnia and he ruled these regions Independent and called himself Syrmian king. In the same time crisis caused by Tatars in Bulgarian increased... If Serbs or Vlachs were comming from Ibar area to Zakarpatya, to fight for Hungarians, they must have been sent by Serbia not by Byzantine.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5686#msg195686

In late 13th century entire Ibar river was in Serbia, it was in
Serbia for centuries before that. Chrysobull of Serbian king Milutin from early 14th century refers at Vlach katuns in present day northern Kosovo (river Ibar is there) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Stephen_Chrysobull

So what are you trying to say with this ? That vlachs are serbs or something like that ?

[Varda]

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5699#msg195699
But when ancestors of these dukes with own people, arrived to Maramures? Old Russian chronicles tell that king Laszlo asked help from Rome and Constantinople 1284-1285 because he was afraid of Tatar invasion. Significant help came from Ibar area in present day Serbia. These Romanians (Vlachs) from Ibar area, together with Hungarians defeated Tatars in the upper valley of Tisa, since they did not want to return in their homeland king settled them in Maramures.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5700#msg195700
There is reliable sources except old 'Russian chronicle.' It is more likely they arrived by command of Stefan Milutin. In that time Hungarian king Laszlo IV gave to Dragutin (Milutin's brother) Mačva with Belgrade and regions Soli and Usora in present day northern Bosnia and he ruled these regions Independent and called himself Syrmian king. In the same time crisis caused by Tatars in Bulgarian increased... If Serbs or Vlachs were comming from Ibar area to Zakarpatya, to fight for Hungarians, they must have been sent by Serbia not by Byzantine.

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5686#msg195686

In late 13th century entire Ibar river was in Serbia, it was in
Serbia for centuries before that. Chrysobull of Serbian king Milutin from early 14th century refers at Vlach katuns in present day northern Kosovo (river Ibar is there) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Stephen_Chrysobull

Reason for discusion which i posted is match in Y DNA between one Rusyn from Maramures and several Serbs (some are from Kosovo) inside of R1b-Z2103-BY611-Z2705.

Vlachs of Ibar/northern Kosovo from Milutin's chrysobull in that time were probably bilingual. Their names in chrysobull are predominantly Slavic, but there is some Vlach/Romanian like. In late 13th and early 14th century it seems they were semi slavized.

[ioas12]

Reason for discusion which i posted is match in Y DNA between Rusyn from Maramures and several Serbs (some are from Kosovo) in side of R1b-Z2103-BY611-Z2705.

Vlachs of Ibar/northern Kosovo from Milutin's chrysobull in that time were probably bilingual. There names in chrysobull are predominantly Slavic, but there is some Vlach/Romanian like. In late 13th and early 14th century it seems they were semi slavized.

Well I didn't really find slavic names for vlachs that strange for example the vlachs leaders mentioned in 1247 , litovoi and seneslau. Also other leaders with slavic names vlad, radu and dragos for example

[Varda]

This Albo troll DamCz use different profile every 15 days. His propaganda how Albos live in countinuity in Kosovo for thoudands of years is fantasy. Dardanians were romanized during the Roman period, and medieval Vlachs of Kosovo most likely were their descendants. Kosovo Vlachs mixed with Slavic Serbs in the middle age and present day Kosovo Serbs are partly their descendants, even some Romanians probably are more connected with medieval Kosovo Vlachs than Albos. Kosovo Serbs have higher E-V13 than Serbian average and their branches are not connected with Albanian.

[Varda]

https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...5686#msg195686

I forgot to translate that.

Here is more literature that confirms the arrival of the Vlachs in Maramures, who were practically Serbs by identity, with Serbian names. In addition it is stated their origin from Kosovo. Right ar the root BY199059 under asterisk are Janićijević from Kosovo, Veličković from Bojnik which is not far, and this from Maramures. Later started migrations towards the Stari Vlah and further west (in those downstream branches there is the most tested).

[ioas12]

I forgot to translate that.

Here is more literature that confirms the arrival of the Vlachs in Maramures, who were practically Serbs by identity, with Serbian names. In addition it is stated their origin from Kosovo. Right ar the root BY199059 under asterisk are Janićijević from Kosovo, Veličković from Bojnik which is not far, and this from Maramures. Later started migrations towards the Stari Vlah and further west (in those downstream branches there is the most tested).

That article that you shared says that all vlachs in translyiana are serbs lol. Also the Bulgarians claim that the vlachs were Bulgarian too