Soak the English: Welsh want paying for any water piped across the border

[Occident]

Who cares who devised it? The English are paying for it.

Which probably wouldn't be in of itself a major issue (leaving aside the general immorality of the socialist welfare state) if it weren't for the fact that this Plaid Cymru fellow wants to treat England as foreign country.

But lets not forget; its his job to make people feel England is a foreign country, thats why he was elected in the first place. Plenty of people in Wales didnt vote Plaid Cymru and don't stand to gain from spreading division in this island. We talk here as if the entire Welsh nationhood had manifested itself as some giant, glowing figure of Glyndwr, knee deep in Cardiff Harbour, and shouted "It's Wales' Water!". In reality, it's just one politician from the Welsh Assembly's third largest party.

[Treffie]

Who cares who devised it? The English are paying for it.

Which English? The South, the Midlands, the North? Seeing as the West Midlands has the 2nd highest unemployment levels in the UK, my guess it's the South that's paying for it.

Nice strawman btw.

[Graham]

Which English? The South, the Midlands, the North? Seeing as the West Midlands has the 2nd highest unemployment levels in the UK, my guess it's the South that's paying for it.

Nice strawman btw.

Only the South East and London pays more than it receives. Every Nation in the UK runs at a deficit. So technically no country pays any country. Just some contribute more debt to the Trillion pounds.

By the way, Wales has had £6.7bn underspent in defence from 2002 to 2008 and probably continuing.

[Albion]

Politicians say rain-rich country must be compensated if 'increasingly valuable resource' is sent to drought-hit England

Yeah, I suppose so. But water which flows in rivers through England from a source in Wales should be excluded or the right divided up.
In other countries rivers which flow through many countries are subject to such agreements and every country along the course of the river has a right to extract water from it regardless.
Any such agreement with Wales should be quite easy regarding the rivers, since most flow from sparsely populated areas of Wales where there's little need into areas of England where it is needed. Wales isn't exactly short of water, a few internal treaties between the Home Nations would be good I think, just so we know where we stand at least.

Wales should make sure it receives proper payment for any water exported to ease drought-hit areas of England, Welsh politicians and economists have said.

Elfyn Llwyd, the leader of Plaid Cymru at Westminster, led calls for a "mature debate" on ensuring Wales is properly paid for one of its richest natural resources.

He said he did not object to water being moved from Wales to England. "I see no reason why that should not happen as we are rich in that resource in Wales."

It should be paid a decent rate, nothing ridiculous though. Currently England exports gas to Wales and the Welsh consumers have to pay for it just as the English have to pay companies for their water.
However, we haven't asked them to pay extra for it just because they're not in England. I think this is double standards in a way, but at the end of the day we are selling it at market rates to anyone who wants to buy it.

But he added: "I think there should be adequate and reasonable recompense for that provision. I'm not talking of an Opec situation when come sudden droughts to England we get the guns out and say you've got to pay twice or three times more. Just a reasonable return on what is being delivered.

Agreed.

"The time is high for a mature, friendly discussion between the governments of Wales and Westminster. Those detractors who say it should be provided free are more than likely the same people who say that Scottish oil belongs to England as well. Water is a commodity like everything else. Let's have a friendly agreement. We have it, you need it."

That's up for debate, we're one country you could argue but I do believe we should have control over our own separate resources.

Scotland has most of the oil, England has a negligible amount itself but does have 80% of the gas (which is slowly running out unless the large onshore deposits are tapped).
Wales also has supplies of onshore gas and unlike Scotland, it has abundant water where it is needed (close to the English population centres)

Welsh water companies can harvest Welsh water for free so long as they pay taxes as can English companies in England or Wales, but will this turn into a levy against English companies operating in Wales such as Severn Trent?
We must ask ourselves, how far should this go? What if England announces that its natural resources should cost more for other nations of the UK? As an example, imagine all the arable land in England which keeps the UK self-sufficient in staple foods. Should the Welsh be asked to pay more for this because they're not living in England? It could be argued that England is a different nation, but then again we are in one country.
Then again, Welsh water could in the future help grow a lot of that produce.

The arguments for and against paying for Welsh water could cause a headache, especially if the English feel there's double standards at play.

Jones-Evans said: "Wales has got the water. The issue now is who owns that resource and whether Wales is getting a fair price for it as if it was selling any other commodity, product or service.

"It's not as if Wales will stop the water flowing to England in the same way the Russians have tried to turn the tap off on gas. We've got a resource, we want to have a fair price for that resource. With devolution going the way it is, Wales would probably want to have more control over that."

I think the argument is against English water companies in Wales being able to harvest the water for free, but its no different to water companies anywhere in the UK.
The point I think the Welsh are trying to make is that its Welsh water and that their country isn't England so technically they're exporting it so the English should pay for it (the water companies).

Revenue from English gas reserves goes to Westminster because England isn't devolved. Whilst the revenue will likely be spent in the UK, there is nothing stopping it from being used elsewhere in Scotland, Wales or NI.
But then again our gas is traded at market rates, Welsh water is basically free for the English water companies so long as they can capture it.

He quoted figures from Welsh Water (Dwr Cymru) that the country's reservoirs are 98% full, adding: "I believe that we are witnessing the renaissance of a resource, and it falls on all of us here and the Welsh government to do what we can to ensure that we really do capitalise on the most important resource of all."

I suppose England should pay for it. Hopefully this would anger the water companies enough to actually construct a water network here.
There is enough water in England, it's just in the wrong areas (north and west) where it is least needed. Wales is lucky that it has abundant water, more than it needs and sits close to English population centres which it can export to more easily. It is much easier for the Midlands and the South to get water from Wales than from Northern England, so for the foreseeable future at least, Welsh water is going to be important for England.

Welsh Water said that though the country had a higher rainfall than many parts of the UK, it did not have "excess water resources", especially during hot summers. If more water was to be moved to England, "major investment in new storage" in Wales would be needed.

They would say that. New infrastructure would likely be needed, not a great lot though.

In an editorial it wrote: "A new era of co-operation between Wales and England in which water supplies are developed and shared would demonstrate that a transformation had taken place in the way the different nations of the UK can work together … England has the chance to be both a good neighbour and a good customer. This is an idea which should not be turned off."

The Welsh have long felt exploited about the issue, maybe this would put it to rest. England is a good neighbour already though, the Welsh benefit massively from English infrastructure.

[ariaka]

Only the South East and London pays more than it receives.

Do you view it as an acceptable thing that these areas pay more than they receive?

[Graham]

Is it acceptable to you that these areas pay more than they receive?

Like my Signature says 'Independence or Dependence?' Prefer independence and responsibility for ones actions in overspending.

I'd rather just scrap the Barnett formula(which means pocket money from our parents in London). We can raise our own finances, spend it and take the consequences with that.

[Graham]

...And continuing on consequences, responsibility and debt. USA should be watching it's $15 Trillion plus debt bomb go up, as it buckles under it's own weight with it's high debt to GDP ratio. Take action or there may be trouble ahead.

$16.4 trillion debt ceiling, wont take long to get up to that level.

[Wulfhere]

Which English? The South, the Midlands, the North? Seeing as the West Midlands has the 2nd highest unemployment levels in the UK, my guess it's the South that's paying for it.

Nice strawman btw.

The Midlands, North etc. aren't trying to make the South pay for their water.

[Treffie]

The Midlands, North etc. aren't trying to make the South pay for their water.

They're not devolved regions either.

[Albion]

That's it! we'll pish into your water, if it's going free.

No, don't! People overreact.

Seriously though. How much will water go for on Ebay this summer? Got more than enough to sell, if anyone want's some.

There's enough here, thanks. The north west is saturated.

It would help alot if we had a system of genuine federalism, where each constituent clearly and undoubetdly managed and paid for its own welfare system. These issues will only continue to cause resentment otherwise, which in fact may well be Plaid Cymru's aim here.

Agreed. This crappy half-hearted devolution settlement only causes problems, we need true federalism if the union is to thrive or even be saved, with each state getting equal powers.