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Thread: Loki..

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by YggsVinr View Post
    Also, what do you make of Byleist? We're looking at another trio representing Odin/Vili/Ve, Odin, Lodurr, Hoenir, and the Prose Edda suggests that Loki is, indeed, Odin's brother but can anyone think of any earlier suggestions (EDIT: I should probably clarify, we've had lots of evidence regarding Odin/Vili/Ve, Odin/Lodurr/Hoenir, but I'm wondering about what seems like that single mention of Helblindi/Byleist/Loki...I'm not sure I'm explaining myself the best way possible)? I'm just wondering if this was a later development or not.
    Well, I found this..

    Irmin, Ingo, Isto
    A study on the brothers of creation

    In the poetic Edda, we are told of three brothers, sons of Borr, that create the first man and woman (Askr & Embla) from two pieces of wood they find on the beach. They are named Oðinn, Hœnir and Loðr. Snorri Sturluson, on the other hand, names these three brothers differently in his prose Edda; Oðinn, Vili and Vé. In Tacitus's Germania we find three other names for what appear to be these very same brothers; Irmin, Ingo and Isco. Who are these brothers Tacitus mentions and how can we compare them to their Norse equivalents found in the Edda's?

    ...

    Isco

    As the third son of Mannus we find Isco. If we take the above comparisons for temporary truth, we are forced to conclude this Isco is comparable to the God named Loðr or Vili, the God that provided Askr and Embla with blood and senses. In essence we could state that Isco was the provider of the actual human body, the one that changed the form of the trees to that of a human form. Grimm in a way supports that theory when he suggests a similarity between Isco and Askr. Altough Grimm offers this similarity as a comparison of Isco to Askr, he also admits to the idea of Isco representing the body. It would be off in comparison to the Norse Gods to place Isco to be Askr, as these brothers would have given life to Askr, not be the being themselves. If we look to the lore (Skaldskaparmal 1), we find one God that accompanies Hönir and Wodan in their travels; Loki. It is one of the few times we read about Hönir traveling with his brother Wodan and the name of Loki appears. Could Loki be this God Isco, Loðr or Vili, the third brother?

    Another name for Loki is that of Loptr, and Loki is paralleled with Logi by Snorri. Both Loptr, Loðr and Logi are names having to do with fire. Loptr is a reference to the unsteady air, Loðr one of a raging earth fire, Logi simply fire itself. Loki seems to be connected with fire, that much is clear. Next to the obvious likeness and meaning of Loptr and Loðr we can see the gift of Loðr, that of blood and senses, as the warmth of the body, the fire if you will.

    It is interesting to note that Loki is presented as one of three brothers by his parents Farbauti and Laufey. His brothers are known as Hellblindi and Byleist. We know too little of these brothers to compare them to Irmin and Ingo or Wodan and Hönir. If we do however propose these brothers to be the very brothers of the famous trio, we would have to look at the role of Farbauti as he would be comparable to Mannus. This may seem to be unlikely, as he is described as a demon-like giant, like the Jotuns. However, we must not forget the christian influence on Loki that depicts him as a devilish character. In that manipulation, it would seem logical to depict his father as purely evil as well.

    Grimm discusses the giant Forniotr, which seems to be Farbauti himself, to which he grants three other sons, namely Logi, Hlêr and Kari or in other words Fire-Water-Air. Of this trio we find another familair name, besides that of Logi, that of Hlêr. In Snorri's Edda we find a reference to Ægir, which is also called as Hlêr. This seems logical as we know that Ægir's name most likely refers to the sea directly. Kari, as air, seems to be easily compared to Wodan, if not only for the breath he grants Askr and Embla. In this case we are served with an odd trio: Loki, Eger (Ægir) and Wodan. Could Eger be Ingo? Perhaps related to Ingo much like Fro is referred to as Ingo?

    In Tacitus' Germania, he mentions the Istaevones as all the rest, where he grants the coast to the Ingaevones and the middle-country to the Herminones. This reference would place these peoples to the east, the west and part of the north already given to the Ingeavones, the middle country (mainly Germany of today) to the Herminones. It is perhaps interesting to note that the Jotuns (Loki's kind) are said to be of the East, wheras the Vanes (Ingo) are of the West. Next to that, we can note with these three beings a good balance of the three main beings: Ases, Vanes and Ëzan (Jotuns).

    In a far more extreme speculation, could Tacitus comment of all the rest refer to the Reginorahha (Raganrök)? Could it be a statement of the future einhari towards their enemies the Ëzan? Where the peoples of the Ases (Irmin) and the people of the Vanes (Ingo) will fight with their Gods against the people of the Ëzan (Isco) in the end of times. A farfetched concept, but perhaps worth noting in this small study of the three brothers.

    http://www.heithanissa.nl/v2/?id=articles&sub=5&gloss=
    The first thing that comes to my mind is what Rydberg had to say..



    And when it comes to Hadding..

    It has been suggested that they were originally two Proto-Germanic legendary heroes by the name *Hazdingōz, meaning the "longhairs", and that they were identical to the Alci mentioned by Tacitus. According to Tacitus, the Alci were worshiped as gods by priests in female clothing:

    [...] and the Nahanarvali. Among these last is shown a grove of immemorial sanctity. A priest in female attire has the charge of it. But the deities are described in Roman language as Castor and Pollux. Such, indeed, are the attributes of the divinity, the name being Alcis. They have no images, or, indeed, any vestige of foreign superstition, but it is as brothers and as youths that the deities are worshipped.[1]

    Cassius Dio mentioned c. 170 the Astingoi as a noble clan among the Vandals, and the Asdingi reappear, in the 6th century in Jordanes' work as the royal dynasty of the Vandals.

    The root appears in Old Icelandic as haddr meaning "women hair", and the motivation for the name Haddingjar/Astingoi/Asdingi was probably that men from Germanic royal dynasties sported long hair as a mark of dignity (cf. the "longhaired Merovingians").

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadding
    I think there may be something here..??

    There are some pretty interesting parallels with Hadding and Loki. Him being taken care of by the one-eyed man, him drinking "Leifnir's flames", him being bound like Loki ( by Loki..?? ), and him eating a heart..

    The one-eyed old man is endowed with wonderful powers. When he landed with the lad at his home, he sang over him prophetic incantations to protect him (Hist., 40), and gave him a drink of the "most splendid sort," which produced in Hadding enormous physical strength, and particularly made him able to free himself from bonds and chains. (Compare Hávamál 149, concerning Odin's freeing incantations by which "fetters spring from the feet and chains from the hands".) A comparison with other passages, which I shall discuss later, shows that the potion of which the old man is lord contains something which is called "Leifnir's flames," and that he who has been permitted to drink it, and over whom freeing incantations have simultaneously been sung, is able with his warm breath to free himself from every fetter which has been put on his enchanted limbs (see Nos. 43, 96, 103).

    The old man predicts that Hadding will soon have an opportunity of testing the strength with which the drink and the magic songs have endowed him. And the prophecy is fulfilled. Hadding falls into the power of Loki. He chains him and threatens to expose him as food for a wild beast - in Saxo a lion, in the myth presumably some one of the wolf or serpent prodigies that are Loki's offspring. But when his guards are put to sleep by Odin's magic song, though Odin is far away, Hadding bursts his bonds, slays the beast, and eats, in obedience to Odin's instructions, its heart. (The saga of Sigurd Fafnisbani has copied this feature. Sigurd eats the heart of the dragon Fafnir and gets wisdom thereby.)

    Rydberg's Teutonic Mythology, 38. THE WORLD WAR (continued). THE WAR IN MIDGARD BETWEEN HALFDAN'S SONS. GROA'S SONS AGAINST ALVEIG'S. LOKI'S APPEARANCE ON THE STAGE. HADDING'S YOUTHFUL ADVENTURES.
    Any thoughts?

    Later,
    -Lyfing
    Last edited by Psychonaut; 03-22-2009 at 07:16 PM. Reason: posts merged

  2. #32
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    Irmin, Ingo, Isto
    A study on the brothers of creation

    In the poetic Edda, we are told of three brothers, sons of Borr, that create the first man and woman (Askr & Embla) from two pieces of wood they find on the beach. They are named Oðinn, Hœnir and Loðr. Snorri Sturluson, on the other hand, names these three brothers differently in his prose Edda; Oðinn, Vili and Vé. In Tacitus's Germania we find three other names for what appear to be these very same brothers; Irmin, Ingo and Isco. Who are these brothers Tacitus mentions and how can we compare them to their Norse equivalents found in the Edda's?
    Good find! I didn't even think of Irmin, Ingo, and Isto in the context of this thread, how silly! It definitely does look as though we have a trinity of Odin, Frey, and Loki. Odin calls himself Helblindi "Grim is my name, and Gangleri, Herjan and Hjalmberi, Thekk and Thrithi, Thuth and Uth, Helblindi and Har." Har also seems to have a similar meaning to Irmin. And what about Thrithi? The third (third of three brothers?)? The footnote in my edition gives it a Christian connotation but is it really?

    I tried to do some searching on Byleistr but didn't come up with much. The first hit I got was:

    Byleist
    Brother of Loki. His name means Roar-of-the-Galewind-Lightning.
    But that doesn't seem to fit. But I did find an interesting hit on the prefix portion of the name. The entry for Byleist itself didn't give much insight but right above it was one for Byggvir and Beyla.

    Like his wife Beyla, Byggvir is mostly understood through the etymology of his name, although the problem is complicated by the competing form in the poem, "Beyggvir". Bygg is the word for barely, and much of what the poem says of Byggvir can be imagined to fit barley, which is tiny, ground in a mill, and used in beer. Barley would be associated with Frey insofar that Frey is a fertility god.
    http://books.google.ca/books?id=37pH...Fyxzg#PPA91,M1

    It got me wondering if the prefix of Byleistr is related to Bygg etymologically at all. I couldn't find much on the suffix, though.

    I also found:

    byggja (gð)> dwell, settle; build, inhabit [Pokorny bheu-, bheu̯ə-, bhu̯ā-, bhu̯ē- : bhō̆u- : bhū- :: to grow, prosper]
    http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/l...orol-BF-X.html

    If Frey/Ingo/Vili is Byleist then it would make sense that the name be associated with growth and prosperity.

    I don't have much to add for now, I've been reading some material on Loki and shamanism that I'll post as soon as possible.

    Great posts!

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    The possible connections between Odin/Irmin/Helblini/Kari, Haenir/Vili/Ingo/Byleist/Hler, and Lothur/Ve/Isto/Loki/Logi/Hadding have been pointed out in the above.

    I’ve been off trying to find connections between Odin/Irmin/Helblini/Kari and Gudhorm, and Haenir/Vili/Ingo/Byleist/Hler and Svipdag.

    This is all proving to be a heck of mess. Rydberg was good at this and had the following to say in regards it..

    We must consider that nearly all mythic characters are polyonomous, and that the Teutonic mythology particularly, on account of its poetics, is burdened with a highly-developed polyonomy.
    And further..

    The simplest of the rules he followed was to avail himself of the polyonomy with which the myths and heroic poems are overloaded, and to do so in the following manner:

    Assume that a person in the mythic or heroic poems had three or four names or epithets (he may have had a score). We will call this person A, and the different forms of his name A', A'', A'''. Saxo’s task of producing a chain of events running through many centuries forced him to consider the three names A', A'', and A''' as originally three persons, who had performed certain similar exploits, and therefore had, in course of time, been confounded with each other, and blended by the authors of myths and stories into one person A. As best he can, Saxo tries to resolve this mythical product, composed, in his opinion, of historical elements, and to distribute the exploits attributed to A between A', A'', and A'''. It may also be that one or more of the stories applied to A were found more or less varied in different sources. In such cases he would report the same stories with slight variations about A', A'', and A'''. The similarities remaining form one important group of indications which he has furnished to guide us, but which can assure us that our investigation is in the right course only when corroborated by indications belonging to other groups, or corroborated by statements preserved in other sources.

    But in the events which Saxo in this manner relates about A', A'', and A''', other persons are also mentioned. We will assume that in the myths and heroic poems these have been named B and C. These, too, have in the songs of the skalds had several names and epithets. B has also been called B', B'', B'''. C has also been styled C', C'', C'''. Out of this one subordinate person B, Saxo, by the aid of the abundance of names, makes as many subordinate persons — B', B'', and B''' — as he made out of the original chief person A — that is, the chief persons A', A'', and A'''. Thus also with C, and in this way we get the following analogies:

    A'*** is to B'***and C'***as
    A'' B'' C''***and as
    A''' B''' C'''

    By comparing all that is related concerning these nine names, we are enabled gradually to form a more or less correct idea of what the original myth has contained in regard to A, B, and C. If it then happens — as is often the case — that two or more of the names A', B', C', &c., are found in Icelandic or other documents, and there belong to persons whose adventures are in some respects the same, and in other respects are made clearer and more complete, by what Saxo tells about A', A'', and A''', &c., then it is proper to continue the investigation in the direction thus started. If, then, every new step brings forth new confirmations from various sources, and if a myth thus restored easily dovetails itself into an epic cycle of myths, and there forms a necessary link in the chain of events, then the investigation has produced the desired result.

    An aid in the investigation is not unfrequently the circumstance that the names at Saxo’s disposal were not sufficient for all points in the above scheme. We then find analogies which open for us, so to speak, short cuts — for instance, as follows:

    A'*** is to B'***and C'***as
    A'' B' C''***and as
    A''' B'' C'
    That all being said..

    Rydberg has already done the work of connecting Gudhorm with the Herminones and Svipdag with the Ingvaeones with this..

    In the Roman authors the form Herminones is found by the side of Hermiones as the name of one of the three Teutonic tribes which descended from Mannus. It is possible, as already indicated, that -horm in Gudhorm is connected with the form Hermio, and it is probable, as already pointed out by several linguists, that the Teutonic irmin (jörmun, Goth. airmana) is linguistically connected with the word Hermino. In that case, the very names Gudhormr and Jörmunrekr already point as such to the mythic progenitor of the Hermiones, Herminones, just as Yngve-Svipdag’s name points to the progenitor of the Ingvœones (Ingævones), and possibly also Hadding’s to that of the Istævones (see No. 25). To the name Hadding corresponds, as already shown, the Anglo-Saxon Hearding, the old German Hartung. The Hasdingi (Asdingi) mentioned by Jordanes were the chief warriors of the Vandals (Goth. Orig., 22), and there may be a mythic reason for rediscovering this family name among an East Teutonic tribe (the Vandals), since Hadding, according to the myth, had his support among the East Teutonic tribes. To the form Hasdingi (Goth. Hazdiggós) the words istœvones, istvœones, might readily enough correspond, provided the vowel i in the Latin form can be harmonised with a in the Teutonic. That the vowel i was an uncertain element may be seen from the genealogy in Codex La Cava, which calls Istævo Ostius, Hostius.


    43. EVIDENCE THAT DIETERICH “OF BERN” IS HADDING. THE DIETERICH SAGA THUS HAS ITS ORIGIN IN THE MYTH CONCERNING THE WAR BETWEEN MANNUS-HALFDAN’S SONS.
    Rydberg also has the notion that..

    The conflict between the gods has its counterpart in, and is connected with, a war between all the Teutonic races, and the latter is again a continuation of the feud between Halfdan and Svipdag. The Teutonic race comes to the front fighting under three race-representatives — (1) Yngve-Svipdag, the son of Orvandel and Groa; (2) Gudhorm, the son of Halfdan and Groa, consequently Svipdag’s half-brother; (3) Hadding, the son of Halfdan and Alveig (in Saxo called Signe, daughter of Sumbel), consequently Gudhorm’s half-brother.

    The ruling Vans favour Svipdag, who is Freyja’s husband and Frey’s brother-in-law. The banished Asas support Hadding from their place of refuge. The conflict between the gods and the war between Halfdan’s successor and heir are woven together.

    38.THE WORLD WAR (continued). THE WAR IN MIDGARD BETWEEN HALFDAN’S SONS. GROA’S SONS AGAINST ALVEIG’S. LOKE’S APPEARANCE ON THE STAGE. HADDING’S YOUTHFUL ADVENTURES.
    One of the first problems I came across with connecting Hadding to Loki is that he was favored by the Aesir. That just doesn’t fit especially with Loki binding him like he himself is bound…? But, I found something..

    Our antiquity has plenty of hero brothers to show, but no twins with a
    name like Alci, if this plural of Alcus is the true form. It occurs to me, that one
    of Othin's names is Ialkr (S詢. 46b 47b), and jolk in the Vermland dialect means a
    boy. (42)

    Grimms Teutonic Mythology, Page 239
    Remember up above how Hadding is connected with the Alci..?? Now with that maybe it is shown how Hadding is favored by the Aesir, and even how Odin is connected with Loki ( as cross-dressing blood-brothers )..??

    For a long time now I’ve had it figured there to be a connection between the war of the Vanir and the Aesir and that of Ragnarok. My line of thinking being somewhere along the lines of Gullveig being the central cause in the First War, and her and Loki’s brood in the Last. That’s all obvious I think. But, it has seemed to me like the same war I guess is what I'm getting at.

    Now, with Rydberg drawing a connection between the First War in the World and “a war between all the Teutonic races” and the writer of that essay with Ragnarok..

    In a far more extreme speculation, could Tacitus comment of all the rest refer to the Reginorahha (Raganrök)? Could it be a statement of the future einhari towards their enemies the Ëzan? Where the peoples of the Ases (Irmin) and the people of the Vanes (Ingo) will fight with their Gods against the people of the Ëzan (Isco) in the end of times. A farfetched concept, but perhaps worth noting in this small study of the three brothers.
    ..I am left wondering if there isn’t some really powerful and ancient motif of the three brothers at work here. Showing itself in all the myths above compared..?? And that is a lot of myths..very important ones..??

    Rydberg also wrote this…

    One of the results of this investigation is, therefore, that the songs about Mannus and his sons, ancient already in the days of Tacitus, have, more or less influenced by the centuries, continued to live far down in the middle ages, and that, not the songs themselves, but the main features of their contents, have been preserved to our time, and should again be incorporated in our mythology together with the myth in regard to the primeval time, the main outline of which has been restored, and the final episode of which is the first great war in the world.

    43. EVIDENCE THAT DIETERICH “OF BERN” IS HADDING. THE DIETERICH SAGA THUS HAS ITS ORIGIN IN THE MYTH CONCERNING THE WAR BETWEEN MANNUS-HALFDAN’S SONS.
    I wonder what the results of this investigation could be..??..

    That is the what I have been thinking about for the most part…

    One more thing though..

    And if our heroic legend associates Irmenfrit, i.e., Irmin with Iring, and Irmin-street alternates with Iring-street, then in the god-myth also, there must have existed points of contact between Irmin = Othinn and Iring = Heimdallr: well, Heimdallr was a son of Othinn, and the Welsh milky way was actually named after Gwydion, i.e., Woden. From the Irminsul four roads branched out across the country, Eriksgata extended in four directions, four such highways are likewise known to English tradition, though it gives the name of Ermingestret to only one, and bestows other mythic titles on the rest. Of Irmin and of Iring, both the divine personality and the lapse into hero nature seem to be made out.

    Grimms Teutonic Mythology, Page 236
    …where could Rig’s place be with the three..??

    Any Thoughts..??

    Later,
    -Lyfing

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    Loki is probably one of the most misunderstood Gods in all the nine realms.
    Whenever something goes wrong, he's blamed, even though it's not necessarily his fault. That being said, when it has been his fault, he has always fixed it.
    For example in the case of Idunn and her apples. Loki caused trouble, and when he realised how much shit he had caused, he fixed it.

    Being so strongly connected to Thor means I get visits from Loki in my dreams.
    He is a bit odd, I'll admit that, and he does take some getting used to. He appeals to my mischevious side, my inner child. The side that likes to cause trouble.

    I don't mind having him around, though I'll admit that even I blame Loki when something goes wrong or goes missing

    Loki is a necessary evil. He creates the balance between good and evil, as it were, but even he's been known to switch sides.
    "Beidh mé tú a leagan síos i measc an féar agus tú grá is breá an ghealach na réaltaí" - A dear friend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Great thoughts Lyfing.

    I am one who believes that the excessive demonization of Loki is of Christian origin, someone they had to equate to the Biblical devil. Far from it. Loki is a complex character who cannot be understood in mere black and white terms
    Funny enough ASH does not acknowledge Loki.
    Have you noticed that if you rearrange the letters in ‘illegal immigrants’, and add just a few more letters, it spells, ‘Go home you free-loading, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, baby-making, non-English-speaking ********* and take those other hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-f*****g raghead c***s with you.?

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    What, no pics of Loki drunk tapdancing on a table with a lampshade on his head?

    .... Bo-ring!

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    The chaos and mischief he brings to this world is misunderstood but needed. It is a mistake to just cast him as a universally good or universally evil deity.
    "The overman...Who has organized the chaos of his passions, given style to his character, and become creative. Aware of life's terrors, he affirms life without resentment."

    Friedrich Nietzsche
    German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

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    There is no mention of Loki in Anglo Saxon Heathenry.
    Have you noticed that if you rearrange the letters in ‘illegal immigrants’, and add just a few more letters, it spells, ‘Go home you free-loading, benefit-grabbing, resource-sucking, baby-making, non-English-speaking ********* and take those other hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-f*****g raghead c***s with you.?

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    What's your point, Germanicus?
    "Beidh mé tú a leagan síos i measc an féar agus tú grá is breá an ghealach na réaltaí" - A dear friend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumi View Post
    What's your point, Germanicus?
    Why There Were Differences

    Of course, it is understandable why there would be similarities between ancient Anglo-Saxon heathendom and ancient Asatru. After all, both groups of people descended from the Germanic tribes. Why, then, would there be any differences between the two? There are several reasons and all of them are very simple. The first is that even when a large group of people (such as several tribes or several nations) share a belief system, variations in that system will often arise peculiar to any given people. A perfect example of this is Irish and Italian Catholicism. Even though both Irish Catholics and Italian Catholics belong to the same denomination of the same religion, one can easily observe differences between the two, especially in the ways in which each group observes church holidays. The Anglo-Saxons and Icelanders would have naturally evolved their own beliefs and customs peculiar only to themselves.
    Second, ancient heathendom was a religion closely tied to the land and hence the changing of the seasons. For the ancient Germanic peoples, winter did not necessarily arrive with the winter solstice, but whenever the first frost occurred. The beginnings of the seasons and the dates of festivals would then vary according to the climate. Naturally, a festival which would take place at the beginning of winter would occur later in a warmer clime than it would a colder one.

    Third, there are differences between ancient Anglo-Saxon heathendom and ancient Icelandic Asatru because of the time frame involved. England was converted in the 6th and 7th centuries CE while Iceland was not converted until 1000 CE. In the 400 years between the conversion of the Anglo-Saxons and the conversion of the Icelanders there was considerable opportunity for the religion to change and evolve, and no doubt such changes came even quicker due to the ever changing social conditions forced upon Northern Europe by Christianity.

    Other changes developed from the social and political climate of the times. For the Anglo-Saxons the institution of sacral kingship was very important. Four hundred years later, however, the Icelanders had witnessed Norwegian kings demeaning the very office by breaking troth with the gods and the folk through unabashed tyranny. The institution of sacral kingship then ceased to be important for the Icelanders and they sought other ways of defending the tribal luck. Finally, it appears that the ancient heathen believed that great men could become gods upon their death--the Icelandic sagas show a few examples of kings being deified after they had passed on. In the 400 years between the Conversion of the Anglo-Saxons and the earliest Old Norse sources, various heroes could have been raised to godhood in the people's minds.

    While Anglo-Saxon heathendom and Icelandic Asatru both belong to the same religion and as a result share much in common, there are also minor differences between the two which can occasionally result in confusion for anyone new to the study of heathendom.

    By far our best source on information on the gods worshipped by the ancient Germanic peoples are the Old Norse and Icelandic poems and sagas. References to the gods in Old English (the language of the Anglo-Saxons) sources are exceedingly rare. The names of the major gods were, however, preserved in several place names. Because of this we know that ancient Anglo-Saxon Anglo-Saxon heathendom and Icelandic Asatru shared most of the major gods named in the Norse sources.
    Below is a table listing the major gods known to us from the elder sources. An asterisk before the name of a god indicates that it is a reconstruction (that is, the name does not actually appear in the language). A short commentary follows on each of the gods.

    The Gods of Anglo-Saxon heathendom and Asatru Old English Icelandic/Norse
    Wóden Óðinn
    Þúnor ÞórR
    Fríge Frigg
    Tíw TyR
    Fréa FreyR
    Fréo Freyja
    *Néorð NjörðR
    *Forseta Foreseti
    Hama HeimdallR
    Bealdor BaldR
    Geofon Gefjun
    Hel Hel
    Éostre ?
    ? UllR
    ? Loki


    Even a cursory glance at this table shows that ancient Anglo-Saxon heathendom and ancient Asatru share the major gods of the Eddas in common. We know that these gods were worshipped by the Old Norse speakers from the literary record, place names, and archaeological evidence. While the Old English literary record of these gods is scant, we do have place names and archaeological evidence that shows that the Anglo-Saxons worshipped them. That the Anglo-Saxons and the Icelanders (and the ancient Scandinavians before them) apparently held these gods in common shows that there was a high degree of agreement in the overall religion that is heathendom. Naturally, there were a few differences between the two, and some gods found in Icelandic heathendom might not have been known to the Anglo-Saxon heathen. Similarly, a few gods appear to have been known to the Anglo-Saxons, but not to the Icelanders.

    Wóden: Known in Old Norse as Óðinn, best known now by an Anglicized version of that name, Odin, he appears to have been an important god for both the Anglo-Saxons and the ancient Scandinavians. He is the god most often mentioned in Old English sources and both England and Scandinavia boast several places named for him. Interestingly, the most important Old English source to mention Wóden, The Nine Herbs Charm, casts him in a role familiar to us from Norse mythology--as the supreme wizard.

    Þúnor: Called ÞórR in Old Norse and Thor in modern English, he was perhaps the single most popular god among the ancient Germanic peoples. Both England and Scandinavia had several places named for him and the fifth day of the week still bears his name in English and most of the Scandinavian countries (in modern English, Thursday).

    Fríge: Wóden's wife, called Frigg in Old Norse and Frigga in modern English. She is rarely mentioned in Old Norse sources and references to her in Old English are nearly non-existent; however, places were named for her in both England and Scandinavia. The day Friday was also named for her (OE Frígesdæg).

    Tíw: Called TyR by the Old Norse, references to Tíw in Old Norse and Scandinavian sources are rare. Nonetheless, we know he was important to both the Anglo-Saxons and the ancient Scandinavians from the places named for him and the day which still bears his name (NE Tuesday).

    Fréa: Called FreyR in Old Norse and Frey in modern English, he was frequently mentioned in Old Norse sources. Also called Ing or Yngvi in Old Norse, he may be remembered in the Old English Rune Poem's verse for Ing as well as the genealogy for the kings of Bernicia, where an Ingui is listed. Places were named for him in both England and Scandinavia.

    Fréo: Called Freyja in Old Norse and Freya in modern English, the sister of Fréa had places named for her in both England and Scandinavia. She appears in the Old Norse sources more than any other goddess.

    NjörðR: The word Néorð appears nowhere in Old English as the name of a god, though this would have been that god's name in the language. Though he is never mentioned in Old English sources, it is quite possible that the Anglo-Saxons worshipped him. The Roman scholar Tacitus in Germania records the worship of a goddess Nerthus among various Germanic tribes, among them the Angles who would settle Britain a few centuries later. The name Nerthus is almost certainly the same as NjörðR, which has led to much debate as to this goddesses' identity. Some have even assumed that somehow through the centuries the goddess Nerthus changed sexes to become the god NjörðR. More likely explanations are that Tacitus either heard the gender of the god's name wrong and assumed he was a goddess or that the Nerthus mentioned by Tacitus is simply NjörðR's cult companion, perhaps the mysterious sister mentioned in Old Norse sources. At any rate, Scandinavia had many places named for the god.

    Forseti: The word Forseta appears nowhere as a name for a god in Old English. Like NéorðR, it is provided here to show what the Old English name of the god would have looked like. While his name does not appear in Old English sources, Forseti was probably worshipped by the Anglo-Saxons. He was the favourite god of the ancient Frisians (in whose language he was called Fosite), who later migrated to Britain with the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. The name literally means "he who presides" or "president." He was apparently less important to the Old Norse speakers, as references to him in their literature is sparse. Indeed, he is even made the son of BaldR! The Old Norse sources do show, however, that Forseti was thought of as a "president." In the Eddic poem Grímnísmál it is said that Forseti settles all disputes. This brings to mind the head of a thing or judicial assembly, who often had to settle disputes between people.

    HeimdallR: In the Old Norse sources HeimdallR appears as the guardian of Bifröst and the enemy of Loki. A scrap of a myth refers to a battle between HeimdallR and Loki in the form of seals over a gem called the "sea kidney"--sometimes identified with Fréo's necklace, Brísingamen by modern scholars. It is difficult to tell if the Anglo-Saxons knew of HeimdallR. The poem Béowulf relates a tale in which a hero named Hama rescued a necklace called Brosinga mene, which could well be the Old English name for Fréo's necklace. It seems possible that the author of Béowulf confused the Germanic hero Hama (the German hero Heimo linked to the cycle of Dietrich of Bern legends) with the god HeimdallR and attributed one of the god's legends to the hero. It also seems possible that Hama was simply a shortened form of the Old English equivalent of HeimdallR (if one even existed). If this is the case, then HeimdallR may have been worshipped by the Anglo-Saxons. Unfortunately, as Béowulf drew heavily upon continental sources, the tale of Hama and the necklace may have come from Denmark, making it possible that the Anglo-Saxons did not known of the god.

    BaldR: It is difficult to say if BaldR was even a god. There are almost no places named for him and evidence of his worship is non-existent. To further complicate matters are the conflicting myths about BaldR. In the Icelandic sources he appears as a god. He is the son of Wóden and Fríge and the most beloved of the gods, brave, wise, and pure of heart. The Danish scholar Saxo paints an entirely different picture of him. He calls BaldR a semideus or "a demigod," indicating that he was the son of Wóden by a mortal woman (keep in mind that this was not unusual--most Germanic kings traced their descent from Wóden). Saxo also portrays BaldR as anything but pure of heart. He is selfish, devious, and wholly wanton. It then seems possible that the BaldR myths developed along national and political lines. For the Norwegians he may have been a hero, one of such stature that he was later deified. For the Danes he may have been an archvillain, one who would never see the halls of the gods. As for the Anglo-Saxons, there are no certain references to BaldR in Old English. Indeed, some scholars have questioned whether the word bealdor, a cognate of BaldR meaning "bold one, brave one." even existed. Of course, if BaldR was merely a hero deified by the Norwegians, we would have no reason to believe that the Anglo-Saxons worshipped him.

    Geofon: Geofon appears as a word for the sea in Old English. No place does it appear as the name of a goddess; however, it appears to be the cognate of Gefjun. Gefjun was a Danish goddess of whom Snorri tells a short myth in the Prose Edda. Gefjun came to King Gylfi of Sweden as an old beggar woman and entertained him so well that he offered her as much land as she could plough with four oxen in a day as a reward. She then turned her four sons by an ettin into oxen and hitched them to a plough. She ploughed so deep and so hard that she dragged the land to a sound west of Sweden. She then fixed the land so that it wouldn't move and named it Zealand (now Danish territory). Where Zealand had once been there was now the lake called Mälar. Considering the fact that in this myth Gefjun deals as much with the sea as she does the land and considering the fact that she was worshipped in Denmark (the general area from whence the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes originated), it is quite possible that Geofon was worshipped by the Anglo-Saxons and that her name later became a byname for the sea. Regardless, many places in Denmark bore her name.

    Hel: In the Old Norse sources Hel is the queen of the realm of the dead (also called Hel). In Old English sources Hel is also the name of the realm of the dead (hence our modern word Hell). In his Teutonic Mythology Jacob Grimm theorized that the goddess Hel was known to most, if not all, of the Germanic peoples. He even theorized that she and her realm may well have been inseparable, if not one and the same. Grimm noted that in Anglo-Saxon literature the place called Hel is often described with the characteristics of a person or or a wolf (its gaping jaws are often referred to)--so often that it seems possible that they were not speaking figuratively of a place, but literally of an entity. If this is the case, then the newly converted Anglo-Saxons may have still held a belief in Hel as an entity who governed the dead. This particularly seems likely concerning Hel's position in the Eddas.

    Éostre: In his De Temporum Ratione the Anglo-Saxon scholar Bede stated that the Old English Éosturmónaþ (roughly around March or April by the modern calendar) was named for the goddess Éostre, to whom the Anglo-Saxons sacrificed during that month. Our modern word Easter, used for the Christian festival celebrating the resurrection of Jesus, also derives from her name. That she was also worshipped by the Continental Germans can be proven from the fact that the modern German name for the same festival (Ostern) also derives from her name. The name Éostre itself is related to the names of the Greek and Roman dawn goddesses, Eos and Aurora respectively, so that she was perhaps a goddess of the dawn and hence spring and the renewal of life. Unfortunately, Éostre appears to have been unknown in Scandinavia and Iceland, as they preserve no trace of her name. It is possible that she was known to the Scandinavians under another name. The goddess Iðunn mentioned in the Eddas as guarding the apples of immortality would seem a possibility, considering the fact that she also appears to deal in the renewal of life.

    UllR: UllR is mentioned infrequently in Old Norse sources, though place names in Norway and Sweden show him to have been an important deity. He appears nowhere south of Norway and Sweden, however, and references to him are almost totally absent from the records of Denmark, the Continent, and England. It seems unlikely then that he was worshipped by the Anglo-Saxons.

    Loki: Loki is one of the major characters in the Icelandic sources, although his behaviour seems a bit schizophrenic when the myths are taken as a whole. He appears as either a good natured trickster, sometimes getting the gods into trouble, but ultimately helping them, or a malevolent creature who commits acts of evil against the gods and ultimately sides with the ettins against them. The reason for this is difficult to say. Perhaps Loki began as a benevolent trickster figure but evolved under Christian influence into a demonic character. Equally likely is that there were two Lokis. Both the Eddas and Saxo Grammaticus refer to an ettin named Utarðaloki, who is quite clearly hostile to the gods. It is possible that the two eventually became confused in the people's minds, so that myths once attributed to Utarðaloki were now attributed to the trickster. Regardless, there is no evidence that Loki was ever worshipped. None of the elder sources refer to his worship nor are there any places named for him. Loki's name is entirely absent from Old English and it is impossible to know if the Anglo-Saxons believed in Loki at all, let alone whether they regarded him as a benevolent trickster or a malevolent ettin.
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