White Genocide

[Armenian Bishop]

On many occasions Armenian Diaspora, or Armenians dispersed worldwide and their future generations, have been lost from their ancestral homeland, as they have become absorbed and submerged into the cultures of their host countries.

Many Armenians left their homeland, and found new permanent homelands, within their host countries, after the Hamidian Massacres (1895-1896), and the Adana Massacre (1909), but with the Armenian Genocide (1915-1923), the Armenian Diaspora experienced a formal cultural banishment from their ancestral homeland, in the Armenian Highlands, and Adana. Armenian Civilization, in Western Armenian was obliterated and annihilated by a premeditated act of genocide perpetrated by the newly formed Turkish Republic, as well as the Young Turks. Consequently, Armenians lost their link to their ancestral homeland, and began to fall prey to the White Genocide.

The Simple English Wikipedia gives a definition of the White Genocide. I've included it in quotations, with the link that provides reference information:

"White Genocide (Armenian: Ճերմակ or սպիտակ ջարդ, Jermag or Spitag Chart) is the word Western Armenians use to describe assimilation in the West. Armenians were forcibly deported from their homeland in Anatolia during the Armenian Genocide in 1915-1918, and never allowed to return. Western Armenians consider Armenians who assimilate within the local population of the country where they were eventually forced to emigrate (such as France, USA, Argentina, etc.) as lost to their nation due to the continuing exile after the actual genocide itself, and thus consider that lost Armenian to be another victim of the genocidal attempt to eliminate the Armenians. The term 'White Genocide' was also used for the regions of Nagorno-Karabakh and Nakhichevan where Armenians were forcibly deported and cleansed from the regions."

"Armenia is referred to by many in Armenia and in the diaspora as the 'white genocide' (spitak chartuh). As one of my informants said, “What the Turks did not do, we are doing to ourselves by fleeing the homeland.”

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Genocide

[YeshAtid]

I certainly hope Armenia gets the justice it deserves regarding the Armenian Genocide. It seems no one shows compassion towards the very real suffering the nation felt at the hands of the Ottomanss, who even to this day virulent deny. Would I be right in thinking the diaspora of Armenians in countries such as Iraq and Syria were the result of this, or were they existent during the Ottoman Empire?

[teodor11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4lxzZjkhs

http://www.circassian-genocide.info/

[Armenian Bishop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4OLThL5rXw&list=PLEBA7C401A15C689E&index=1

[Armenian Bishop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM4thZBKMWY

[blogen]

Since when are white the Armenians?

[Shah-Jehan]

Since when are white the Armenians?

well, they are white skinned and influenced by European culture through Judeo-Christianity, however, they don't fall geographically in Europe...

[blogen]

well, they are white skinned and influenced by European culture through Judeo-Christianity, however, they don't fall geographically in Europe...

They are swarthies.

Swarty peoples:
http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian.jpg

and they are whites:
https://www.interislander.co.nz/Files/Features/German-Family-2.jpg

[Smeagol]

well, they are white skinned and influenced by European culture through Judeo-Christianity, however, they don't fall geographically in Europe...

The Caucasus is part of Europe.

[blogen]

The Caucasus is part of Europe.

The Northern Caucasus and not the Southern.

[Shah-Jehan]

The Caucasus is part of Europe.

It's called the Transcaucasus for a reason, the part North of the range is in Europe...

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Vendee, Irish, Cathars, Waldesians, Wendish there's actually lots of them where genocide was attempted or in some cases complete.

[Smeagol]

The Northern Caucasus and not the Southern.

Okay, true.

[Smeagol]

It's called the Transcaucasus for a reason, the part North of the range is in Europe...

Alright, well the North Caucasus is part of Europe then.

[StonyArabia]

The Northern Caucasus and not the Southern.

Geographically, culturally, and even to some extent racially we are different. We are our own grouping if you will. Just because many of us have a similarity to Europeans especially South Eastern Euros to extent does not make us Europeans.

[LightHouse89]

On many occasions Armenian Diaspora, or Armenians dispersed worldwide and their future generations, have been lost from their ancestral homeland, as they have become absorbed and submerged into the cultures of their host countries.

Many Armenians left their homeland, and found new permanent homelands, within their host countries, after the Hamidian Massacres (1895-1896), and the Adana Massacre (1909), but with the Armenian Genocide (1915-1923), the Armenian Diaspora experienced a formal cultural banishment from their ancestral homeland, in the Armenian Highlands, and Adana. Armenian Civilization, in Western Armenian was obliterated and annihilated by a premeditated act of genocide perpetrated by the newly formed Turkish Republic, as well as the Young Turks. Consequently, Armenians lost their link to their ancestral homeland, and began to fall prey to the White Genocide.

The Simple English Wikipedia gives a definition of the White Genocide. I've included it in quotations, with the link that provides reference information:

"White Genocide (Armenian: Ճերմակ or սպիտակ ջարդ, Jermag or Spitag Chart) is the word Western Armenians use to describe assimilation in the West. Armenians were forcibly deported from their homeland in Anatolia during the Armenian Genocide in 1915-1918, and never allowed to return. Western Armenians consider Armenians who assimilate within the local population of the country where they were eventually forced to emigrate (such as France, USA, Argentina, etc.) as lost to their nation due to the continuing exile after the actual genocide itself, and thus consider that lost Armenian to be another victim of the genocidal attempt to eliminate the Armenians. The term 'White Genocide' was also used for the regions of Nagorno-Karabakh and Nakhichevan where Armenians were forcibly deported and cleansed from the regions."

"Armenia is referred to by many in Armenia and in the diaspora as the 'white genocide' (spitak chartuh). As one of my informants said, “What the Turks did not do, we are doing to ourselves by fleeing the homeland.”

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Genocide

cause the world hates 'white' people. :picard1:

[LightHouse89]

Vendee, Irish, Cathars, Waldesians, Wendish there's actually lots of them where genocide was attempted or in some cases complete.

culturally speaking the irish are gone. remember the coffin ships lads!

[Elms]

I don't think it means white as in people of European origin. I could be wrong though.

[HellLander87]

Are Armenians and persians white? what about turks then?

[StonyArabia]

Are Armenians and persians white? what about turks then?


If Persians, then so are Kurds. Turks are Anatolian with significant Turkmen admixture. Turks range from 0 to 15% Mongoloid admix. This is especially true of the Yoruks considered the purest Turks who are 15% Mongoloid. Well the average Turk is around 5% Mongoloid. Also the Turkmens of Turkmenistan are around 15% Mongoloid, by the time they Turkic Oghuz groups came to Anatolia they were mostly on the Caucasoid, and they had their origins in Turkmenistan not Siberia.

[Rudel]

Vendee, Irish, Cathars, Waldesians, Wendish there's actually lots of them where genocide was attempted or in some cases complete.
Vendéens are not a people, but a part of the French people (and they're still there, as far as I know). Cathars and Vaudois were religious heresies, and the descendants of most of them still live on their ancestral land.

"Genocide" is so overused these days.

As for Armenians, I know some (diaspora Armenians) that still speak Armenian at home. They're mostly in Marseille, were the Armenian community is still coherent.
Otherwise most are pretty transparently integrated within the French society.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Vendéens are not a people, but a part of the French people (and they're still there, as far as I know). Cathars and Vaudois were religious heresies, and the descendants of most of them still live on their ancestral land.

"Genocide" is so overused these days.

As for Armenians, I know some (diaspora Armenians) that still speak Armenian at home. They're mostly in Marseille, were the Armenian community is still coherent.
Otherwise most are pretty transparently integrated within the French society.

They are not genetically the same as oils though. You can't try to wipe out a whole province and say it's not genocide. It's like saying germans killed only german jews not all of them, so not a big deal.

[Rudel]

They are not genetically the same as oils though.
Neither Northern nor Southern French are genetically coherent. Genetics in France are completely uncorrelated with traditional provinces, languages or whatever. And Vendée has always been part of Northern France linguistically.


You can't try to wipe out a whole province and say it's not genocide.
Yes, you can. Because "genocide" has a precise meaning that you apparently ignore.


It's like saying germans killed only german jews not all of them, so not a big deal.
Except Germans killed jews of all nationalities.

[LightHouse89]

Are Armenians and persians white? what about turks then?

I would say we are al Caucasian or 'in American terminology white' but to define us as a giant group this is what I would think. Although I generally think of Chechens and the people of that region to be the real Caucasians. Its complicated. :picard1:

[HellLander87]

I would say we are al Caucasian or 'in American terminology white' but to define us as a giant group this is what I would think. Although I generally think of Chechens and the people of that region to be the real Caucasians. Its complicated. :picard1:
I think Whites are caucasians but Caucasians are not white haha

[LightHouse89]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4OLThL5rXw&list=PLEBA7C401A15C689E&index=1

the turks also murdered Christian Assyrians. the middle east is such a depressing place. I am thankful for my woods, unveiled women, beer, and 2nd amendment right. gotta love it. ;)

[LightHouse89]

I think Whites are caucasians but Caucasians are not white haha

I don't know what to think! :rolleyes2:

[Armenian Bishop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVJSUYkkXSk

[LightHouse89]

so the turks basically plundered the cultures around them.

[RussiaPrussia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4lxzZjkhs

http://www.circassian-genocide.info/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_Empire

[LightHouse89]

I blame the Communist heathenry which would later radicalize the entire region. Caucasus people are like Appalachians....best leave the mountain folks to themselves they wont bother anyone.

[Armenian Bishop]

Armenian orphan girls, survivors of the Armenian genocide (1915 - 1923), presented the 12 by 18 foot "Orphan Rug" to U.S. President Calvin Coolidge, in 1925, as a gift. Those Armenian orphans would find a new life in the USA, but for many of them, their Armenian heritage would disappear, in the bloodless aftershocks of the "White Genocide," as future generations became integrated into the "melting pot" of the host country (USA). The Orphan Rug (1925) became a cultural landmark for Armenian orphan girls who were assimilated into American Society.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-armenian-rug-white-house-20140430-story.html

Armenian Orphan Rug, steeped in controversy, may go on display
30 April, 2014, Los Angeles Times article, by Richard Simons:

A rug woven by orphans of the Armenian genocide -- and the subject of modern-day political controversy -- may be put on display after years in White House storage.

Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank) said the White House has committed to exhibit the rug at a yet-to-be-determined event.

"They finally have made the commitment," he said in an interview. "And we're looking forward to its display."

But Aram S. Hamparian, executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America, said he will believe it when he sees the rug.

"The White House has been sending out false signals about a future showing ever since the controversy surrounding its cancellation of last December's Smithsonian exhibit, so we remain, quite naturally, reserved in welcoming progress until we have actually seen this artwork allowed on public display," he said.

A White House decision last year to cancel a Smithsonian display of the rug caused a furor, with Hamparian at the time accusing the administration of "catering to the Turkish government's sensitivities about the Armenian genocide." A number of lawmakers, including some from California with large Armenian American constituencies, also were upset.

An estimated 1.5 million Armenians were killed by Ottoman Turks as the empire was dissolving during World War I, an episode historians have concluded was genocide. But Turkey has contended that Turks and Armenians were casualties of war, famine and disease.

The roughly 12-by-18-foot Armenian Orphan Rug was to be featured in an exhibit to call attention to a new book about the rug.

But the White House said the rug's display "in connection with a private book launch event, as proposed, would have been an inappropriate use of U.S. government property, would have required the White House to undertake the risk of transporting the rug for limited public exposure and was not viewed as commensurate with the rug's historical significance."

Woven by orphans of the mass killings nearly a century ago, the rug was presented to President Coolidge in 1925 in appreciation for American aid.

It was brought out of storage in 1995 for viewing by one of its aging weavers, according to the Armenian National Committee of America, but it has not been on put on broader public display for decades.

At the White House, National Security Council spokeswoman Laura Lucas Magnuson said in an email Tuesday: "We've been working with Congressman Schiff on this issue for several months and appreciate his working with us to showcase this important artifact in a way that appropriately highlights the spirit in which it was given to the White House for U.S. involvement in assisting Armenian refugees."

Schiff said he hopes to see the rug on public display as early as this fall.

Earlier this year, Schiff sought the rug for an "educational" event on Capitol Hill, but the congressman's office said it never received a response from the White House, and the event ultimately was canceled because of a snowstorm.

Resolutions have been introduced in Congress over the years to recognize the mass killings between 1915 and 1918 as genocide. But the measures have run into resistance amid fears they would damage U.S. relations with Turkey, an important ally

[Azmar]

I don't know why this thread got turned around onto a discussion over whether or not Armenians are white. White is a subjective term anyway. Who really cares? This website has a creepy obsession with race.

Anyway, I think the term White Genocide is confusing. A genocide is something that is done to people isn't it? Assimilation is something that normally happens to immigrant groups and wasn't forced upon them. We could say there was a certain amount of social pressure to conform probably but not like a cultural genocide caused by banning a language or other expressions of a culture.

[Musso]

I don't know why this thread got turned around onto a discussion over whether or not Armenians are white. White is a subjective term anyway. Who really cares? This website has a creepy obsession with race.

Anyway, I think the term White Genocide is confusing. A genocide is something that is done to people isn't it? Assimilation is something that normally happens to immigrant groups and wasn't forced upon them. We could say there was a certain amount of social pressure to conform probably but not like a cultural genocide caused by banning a language or other expressions of a culture.

This is apricity. Most our threads here eventually lead to that discussion.

[Azmar]

Doesn't that get boring and seem pointless?

[LightHouse89]

:D I(or we ) do not regret it...i am still proud my ancestor :D

well I feel bad for the Armenians....Armenia still stands today.... it could be worse. But yes I also do not take shame in what my ancestors did here.

[Musso]

well I feel bad for the Armenians....Armenia still stands today.... it could be worse. But yes I also do not take shame in what my ancestors did here.

Armenia stands today, but ethnically cleansing and killing the Armenians of Western Armenia is nothing to be proud of.

[Armenian Bishop]

Anyway, I think the term White Genocide is confusing. A genocide is something that is done to people isn't it? Assimilation is something that normally happens to immigrant groups and wasn't forced upon them. We could say there was a certain amount of social pressure to conform probably but not like a cultural genocide caused by banning a language or other expressions of a culture.

Yes it can be confusing, to be sure, as this Thread has proven. White Genocide is Cultural Genocide, from generation to generation, eliminating the Armenian legacy at home and abroad.

It's a fair point, but the cultural genocide suffered by Armenians is genuine, or real, because it was a product of forced migration and assimilation, under duress; and, White Genocide spotlights the destruction of the Armenian cultural legacy, and pillaging of Armenian wealth and culture in Western Armenia (a large area of present day Eastern Turkey), as well as the dispersal and disappearance of Armenian cultural heritage abroad. It was the burning and destruction of the link between the Armenian Homeland, and the people who were often forced to leave, but it is also the deliberate destruction of the legacy of Armenian Civilization in the homeland, and the pillaging of Armenian Cultural Treasures at home, as well as abroad.

To better understand it as it pertains to Armenians, watch the White Genocide Videos below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4OLThL5rXw&list=PLEBA7C401A15C689E&index=2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM4thZBKMWY&list=PLEBA7C401A15C689E&index=3

[Azmar]

I went to Ani last year. I went in the winter and it was all covered in snow. Really fantastic place but freezing.

[Armenian Bishop]

Ani, City of 1,001 Churches, the capitol of the Bagratruni Armenian Kingdom (804 - 1045 AD), fell to the Seljuk Turks in 1064 AD, just 2 decades after Armenia was absorbed into the Byzantine Empire. The city of Ani was enriched by the Silk Road Trading Routes, it's security well accounted for with its formidable fortress walls, and its piety honored by its churches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ani#cite_note-19

With the fall of Ani, as many as 100,000 Armenians were slaughtered, and more than 50,000 were captured. The Arab Historian, Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi recorded his observations, when he witnessed the fall of Ani (1064), and the slaughter of the people in the city:

"The army entered the city, massacred its inhabitants, pillaged and burned it, leaving it in ruins and taking prisoner all those who remained alive...The dead bodies were so many that they blocked the streets; one could not go anywhere without stepping over them. And the number of prisoners was not less than 50,000 souls. I was determined to the enter city and see the destruction with my own eyes. I tried to find a street in which I would not have to walk over the corpses; but that was impossible ..."

[Reign of True Hayasa]

The real White Genocide was the Holocaust of the Jews of Europe and the millions of Slavic people who were systematically and heartlessly exterminated by the Nazi death machine.

[LightHouse89]

The real White Genocide was the Holocaust of the Jews of Europe and the millions of Slavic people who were systematically and heartlessly exterminated by the Nazi death machine.

Agreed with the wrong doing of murdering millions of slavs.....the other groups....meh.....

[Bell Beaker]

From now White people in the world are some how, 11/12% of the World population. In 2070, i bet for 5%....

[Armenian Bishop]

From now White people in the world are some how, 11/12% of the World population. In 2070, i bet for 5%....

Often times, Armenians, and some other Non-European based Caucasian Populations, are believed to be White, in population census studies. Therefore, Armenians may well be included in that 11% or 12% Worldwide White Population Count.

[Bell Beaker]

Often times, Armenians, and some other Non-European based Caucasian Populations, are believed to be White, in population census studies. Therefore, Armenians may well be included in that 11% or 12% Worldwide White Population Count.

Armenians are like Albanians and Sicilians, some are White some are Mixed.

[blogen]

Armenians are like Albanians and Sicilians, some are White some are Mixed.

Blonde Armenians, Albanians or Sicilians?

[armenianbodyhair]

Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group via the (a) Killing of members of the group; (b) Causing of serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberate inflicting on the group's conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing of measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (e) Forcible transferring of children of the group to another group. Genocide entails also the Conspiracy to commit genocide; Direct and public incitement to commit genocide; Attempt to commit genocide; and Complicity in genocide.

[Reign of True Hayasa]

Blonde Armenians, Albanians or Sicilians?
Albanians and Sicilians yes.

Armenians, not quite.

[blogen]

Albanians and Sicilians yes.
Armenians, not quite.

Then stop talking about "white Armenians"!

[Armenian Bishop]

Blonde Armenians, Albanians or Sicilians?

A Blonde Trait serves to reinforce our conclusion, already in place, but it isn't a fundamental determining factor, about whether someone is White or Non-White.


Albanians and Sicilians yes.

Armenians, not quite.

There are some Armenians whom are Blonde, and even some Armenians whom are Redheads, but its true that they are a unusual minority of the population. Generally, the first hair color which comes to mind, among Armenians, is Brown. By the way, my maternal grandfather, who was 100% Armenian, had blue eyes, and his Sicilian friend, in Fresno, California, thought that he was a fellow Sicilian, even to the point of conversing with him in Italian.


Then stop talking about "white Armenians"!

It's generally agreed that Blonde Traits aren't the determining characteristic for defining whether someone is White. Other standards do so in a more fundamental way. While Blonde Traits are White Traits, they aren't the determining factor.

There isn't even a consensus about the definition of "White." Those who consider it to be based upon European Ancestry contradict the viewpoint of the U.S. Census Bureau, government agencies, employment agencies and institutions of education. I'd sure like to collect on those legendary government benefits, if I could prove that my Armenian Ancestry isn't White or Caucasian.

[Armenian Bishop]

They are swarthies.

Swarthy peoples:
http://media.independent.com/img/photos/2008/04/24/armenian.jpg

I saw that photograph in the Apricity Assyrian Thread. Aren't the people pictured in that photograph Assyrians?

[Armenian Bishop]

Since when are white the Armenians?

That's not the point of this Thread. White Genocide, for Armenians, accounts for the pillaging, destruction, obliteration and nullification of Armenian Historical Cultural Landmarks and Heritage in Homeland, especially Western Armenia (in present day Eastern Turkey), as well as the breaking of linkages between many Armenians and their ancestral homeland. The legacy of Armenian Culture and Civilization, in Western Armenia, has been destroyed by a systematic and premeditated practice of pillaging, cultural genocide, as well as. The mass-homicide of the civilian population, in the Armenian Genocide (1915 - 1923), was only the climatic period , which gave way to a practice of cultural annihilation.


I don't know why this thread got turned around onto a discussion over whether or not Armenians are white. White is a subjective term anyway. Who really cares? This website has a creepy obsession with race.

Anyway, I think the term White Genocide is confusing. A genocide is something that is done to people isn't it? Assimilation is something that normally happens to immigrant groups and wasn't forced upon them. We could say there was a certain amount of social pressure to conform probably but not like a cultural genocide caused by banning a language or other expressions of a culture.

It's quite amusing to see this Thread get "turned around into a discussion about whether or not Armenians are White." That's correct, "White is a subjective term." In fact, this discussion wasn't supposed to be about the Whiteness of Armenians.

Yes, the term White Genocide is a bit confusing, based upon what has happened to this Thread, with a snowstorm of questions relating to the Whiteness of Armenians. But, you're wrong, Armenian Civilization, in Western Armenia, was destroyed, and with that came the breaking of the link between some Armenian diaspora members, abroad, and the Homeland. Not only does White Genocide involve the breakage of cultural linkages, but it also touches upon the obliteration of traces of an Armenian Civilization, in the Western Armenian Homeland.

The coverup, conspiracy of silence, and practices of denying the reality of the Armenian Genocide, are also a product of White Genocide, as well as cultural genocide and assimilation.