Transition from a 3rd world to a self sufficient community.

[Arcadefire]

What are some of the things needed for economically/socially struggling countries to improve its conditions? The time /generations it will take for the country to make that transition (provided everything went according to plan)?

If you look at countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Korea, these countries improved their conditions within a span on 20-30 years. Their rapid development was not fueled (pun intended :P ) by petro dollars either . So how do these countries differ from other developing nations?

[armenianbodyhair]

Tiger economies, globalization and multinational corporations moving in helps raise the living standard but also leads to exploitation so it's a trade off. Also women's equality is the sign of a developed country ( to a point before the country is duly industrialized)

[McCauley]

Good work ethic.

[Arcadefire]

Good work ethic.

Thats a good shout. But its got to be more than just great work ethics. Afterall , you would work your ass off and end up investing in things which may not necessarily pay off in the end.

[Arcadefire]

Tiger economies, globalization and multinational corporations moving in helps raise the living standard but also leads to exploitation so it's a trade off. Also women's equality is the sign of a developed country ( to a point before the country is duly industrialized)

Do you think industrialization/development changes the way of thinking of the common man, or do you think its the change in the thinking of the common which leads to development?

[McCauley]

Thats a good shout. But its got to be more than just great work ethics. Afterall , you would work your ass off and end up investing in things which may not necessarily pay off in the end.

That's true, you've got to know where to throw your money around to really do well. Takes some knowledge of economic theory, but as long as a country has smart leaders and a hard-working population, their economy will improve.

Unfortunately, I think many countries lack either good leaders or good workers, or both (Africa).

[armenianbodyhair]

Do you think industrialization/development changes the way of thinking of the common man, or do you think its the change in the thinking of the common which leads to development?

I think it's both but I think that development is what catalysts a change in thought.

[Also]

Heavy investment in education.

[Anglojew]

Lack of Islam.

And before you say it, it's the Chinese minority driving Malaysia's economy (so much so that the government has out quotas on Chinese and affirmative action for Malays).

[YeshAtid]

Lack of Islam.

And before you say it, it's the Chinese minority driving Malaysia's economy (so much so that the government has out quotas on Chinese and affirmative action for Malays).

And Indonesia

[Arcadefire]

Lack of Islam.

And before you say it, it's the Chinese minority driving Malaysia's economy (so much so that the government has out quotas on Chinese and affirmative action for Malays).

lol its like playing chess with you. Theoretically though, Islam is hardly the cause of decadence of societies. Atleast its not when you look at it from a economical point of view. The survival of the religion itself depended on the money making ventures (Basically a nice way of saying, you had rob the riches of the newly captured colonies and bring it back to the holy land).

Now with the case of Malaysia and Indonesia, I do not know how much of the economy is controlled by the immigrants. But even if the majority of the expensive suits are in fact non-muslims, the vast majority of the actual population still are islamic. If islamic culture is as counter productive as you say it is, shouldn't the majority of the population still be living under shitty conditions?

[Arcadefire]

Bump.

[Anglojew]

lol its like playing chess with you. Theoretically though, Islam is hardly the cause of decadence of societies. Atleast its not when you look at it from a economical point of view. The survival of the religion itself depended on the money making ventures (Basically a nice way of saying, you had rob the riches of the newly captured colonies and bring it back to the holy land).

Now with the case of Malaysia and Indonesia, I do not know how much of the economy is controlled by the immigrants. But even if the majority of the expensive suits are in fact non-muslims, the vast majority of the actual population still are islamic. If islamic culture is as counter productive as you say it is, shouldn't the majority of the population still be living under shitty conditions?

The countries that have pulled themselves out of the Third-World since WW2 have been Buddhist East Asian societies (Thailand etc) whereas the Muslim World (except the artificially oil rich countries) have remained primitive. Malaysia is an exception I've addressed; Ethnic Chinese control their economy.

[Hong Key]

Malays make up the majority—close to 52% of the 28 million population. About 30% of the population are Chinese Malaysians (Malaysians of Chinese descent) and Indian Malaysians (Malaysians of Indian descent) comprise about 8% of the population.

Government policies of positive discrimination often favour the Malay majority and the Bumiputera status, particularly in areas such as housing, finance and education. Economic policies designed to favour Bumiputera, including affirmative action in public education, were implemented in the 1970s in order to defuse inter-ethnic tensions following the May 13 Incident in 1969. However, these policies have not been fully effective in eradicating poverty among rural Bumiputeras and have further caused a backlash especially from Chinese and Indian minorities. The policies are enshrined in the Malaysian constitution and questioning them is technically illegal.May 13: Declassified Documents on the Malaysian Riots of 1969

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Malaysia

[Hong Key]

Homogeny is a good place to start or in the Malaysian style one group firmly on top.

[Hierarchalist]

What are some of the things needed for economically/socially struggling countries to improve its conditions? The time /generations it will take for the country to make that transition (provided everything went according to plan)?

If you look at countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Korea, these countries improved their conditions within a span on 20-30 years. Their rapid development was not fueled (pun intended :P ) by petro dollars either . So how do these countries differ from other developing nations?

By following da white man's recipes and transforming the population into happy little automatons, with "increasing production" as the stated goal of their culture/society.

[Arcadefire]

If the population is controlled, can a socialist government thrive?
Also, is industrialization needed for a country become fully developed?
Do you guys believe in trickled down economy?

[Sarmatian]

Theoretically though, Islam is hardly the cause of decadence of societies.

But it's way too often the cause of stagnation of societies.

[Sarmatian]

Also, is industrialization needed for a country become fully developed?

Yes, industrialization is essential as it's increasing productivity. But for industrialization to succeed you need emancipation of women and their integration into workforce. Women roughly make half of adult population, it's a huge difference between traditional society where women stay at home and look after kids while being basically an extra mouth to feed and modern society where women work and contribute to economy. Without women in the workforce an economy has too many beneficiaries and too few contributors thus very little room to develop.


Do you guys believe in trickled down economy?

Not sure what you mean here.

[Arcadefire]

But it's way too often the cause of stagnation of societies.

Well, I think thats more to do with the culture than the religion itself. Islam are pretty progressive in some regards during the earlier stages of the religion. Especially in the fields of geometry, Maths, Architecture and urban planning. While many of the stuff that came out of the islam was
A. passed on to them by earlier Arabic cultures
B. taken/claimed from the cultures which they took over (persians, Indians, Egyptians, Mongols, Balkans)

The old heads who controlled the religion did realize the importance of education/science and the role it played in expanding their empires.

The muslim leaders of today on the other hand are scared of educating their people. They think it will spark revolts from within.

2 Totally different scenarios imo.

[Hierarchalist]

If the population is controlled, can a socialist government thrive?
Also, is industrialization needed for a country become fully developed?
Do you guys believe in trickled down economy?

You think you live In a "free" society? Lol. In western "democracies", methods of controlling the dumb masses have become subtle and more sophisticated...

[Arcadefire]

Yes, industrialization is essential as it's increasing productivity. But for industrialization to succeed you need emancipation of women and their integration into workforce. Women roughly make half of adult population, it's a huge difference between traditional society where women stay at home and look after kids while being basically an extra mouth to feed and modern society where women work and contribute to economy. Without women in the workforce an economy has too many beneficiaries and too few contributors thus very little room to develop.



Not sure what you mean here.

Well for example, will the emergence of China and India in the world market be beneficial to the minnows who surround them- jus thte way how most of Europe benefited from the rapid growth of Germany, Britain, France and Italy?

[Arcadefire]

You think you live In a "free" society? Lol. In western "democracies", methods of controlling the dumb masses have become subtle and more sophisticated...

Well being "free" imho is relative to the subject in question. kid from Do you think the poor kid in Africa would have issues with joining mandatory army training if it meant he would be provided with basic needs?

[zhaoyun]

The countries that have pulled themselves out of the Third-World since WW2 have been Buddhist East Asian societies (Thailand etc) whereas the Muslim World (except the artificially oil rich countries) have remained primitive. Malaysia is an exception I've addressed; Ethnic Chinese control their economy.

Malaysia is no longer 3rd world, but not exactly 1st world either. If it was majority ethnic Chinese like Singapore, it'd undoubtedly be 1st world, but the native Malays are not very entrepreneurial and they have the mentality of "takers" like the rest of the Malay societies in SE Asia, so they are always passing laws trying to take profits or control of the businesses that Chinese create for the benefit of the native Malays, who are usually not very hardworking.

[zhaoyun]

What are some of the things needed for economically/socially struggling countries to improve its conditions? The time /generations it will take for the country to make that transition (provided everything went according to plan)?

If you look at countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Korea, these countries improved their conditions within a span on 20-30 years. Their rapid development was not fueled (pun intended :P ) by petro dollars either . So how do these countries differ from other developing nations?

It really will be dependent on the particular condition of that country. But I think for East Asian countries, it was a combination of a strong authoritarian government to provide political stability, state capitalism to promote growth and industries, and this combined with the entrepreneurial and hardworking nature of most East Asian cultures. This may or may not work in other countries, but that is the general rule for East Asia. It started first with Japan. Then after WW2, it was South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, HK. Then after China opened up and abandoned a Communist command economy, it started to grow rapidly and move up the development ladder as well.

Malaysia is not in the same league as the other countries btw. Maybe if it was Chinese, but its still majority Malay, they aren't capable of running/developing a first world economy, not with their culture as is currently anyways.

[Astronaut]

whats needed :-

1) Big investment in healthcare,education,infrastructure

2) Making the country investor & business friendly

3) Prioritize manufacturing and service sectors so as to create massive employment