Maternal - R2

[fruitbat]

My cousin and aunt came up R2 (I am R1a) and I can't seem to find any info on it. Where did R2 originate? On 23andme, there is only one post from a male asking about it and that's it. He didn't even know what R2 is. Help?

[Black Wolf]

My cousin and aunt came up R2 (I am R1a) and I can't seem to find any info on it. Where did R2 originate? On 23andme, there is only one post from a male asking about it and that's it. He didn't even know what R2 is. Help?

Are you talking about Y-DNA or mtDNA here?

[MfA_]

Haplogroup: R2, a subgroup of R
Age: greater than 40,000 years
Region: Eurasia
Example Populations: Indians,Mazandarani
Highlight: R2 is most common in northwestern India.

https://www.23andme.com/you/haplogroup/maternal/?viewgroup=R2&tab=story

"R2 is one of the rare Western Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups. It reaches the maximum frequency (7% -8%) in Yemenite Jews, Brahui and Balochi of Pakistan, while the overall frequency in the western part of the Indian subcontinent is a little over 1%, in the Middle East - about 0.5%. The haplogroup can be found in Europe, but the frequency is very low - averaging less than 0.1%. In eastern Europe, the haplogroup is rare, except in some Finno-Ugric populations, such as Vepsians and Udmurts, where the frequency may exceed 3%."

http://gentis.ru/info/mtdna-tutorial/hg-r/r2

in Genbank there are 5 entries which are Indian, Brahui, Turkish, Chinese
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/r2_genbank_sequences.htm

Have you tried this tool (http://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/)? You most likely have extra mutation(s) that would eventually place you into a downstream of R2..

[fruitbat]

mtDNA

[Black Wolf]

mtDNA

Ahhh okay interesting. You said above your mtDNA is R1a? That sounds a lot like Y-DNA to me.

[Armatus]

R2: Found mainly in Balochistan (Pakistan), Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh (India), Iran, Georgia and Turkey.

The phylogeography of haplogroups HV2 and R2 resembles that of U7 but has a more restricted geographic distribution. Both haplogroups are concentrated in southern Pakistan and India, with some overflow into adjacent areas, including the Near East/Caucasus region, the Iranian plateau, the Arabian Peninsula, and Central Asia, where most of the derived types are observed (fig. 4a and ​and4b).4b). The coalescence times were estimated at 27,700 ± 9600 years for HV2 and 31,200 ± 8200 years for R2.

Originated in South Asia.

[Armatus]

Someone was obviously faster.

[fruitbat]

@Jaxman - Yes, mine is R1a, theirs is R2 (both maternal).

@MfA_ - I have tried to the tool a few weeks ago, but GEDmatch is currently offline. Two servers died apparently, just as I was about to upload their 23andme data.

Oddly enough, my aunt (married to my mother's brother) turned out to be my 4th to distant cousin on 23andme -- related to her husband, me and my parents. Good times :)

[fruitbat]

PS thank you all for your help! I expected to find info on R2 relatively easy but was surprised how little info there was online. I appreciate it!

[Black Wolf]

@Jaxman - Yes, mine is R1a, theirs is R2 (both maternal).

@MfA_ - I have tried to the tool a few weeks ago, but GEDmatch is currently offline. Two servers died apparently, just as I was about to upload their 23andme data.

Oddly enough, my aunt (married to my mother's brother) turned out to be my 4th to distant cousin on 23andme -- related to her husband, me and my parents. Good times :)

Hmm cool I did not even know there was an R1a mtDNA haplogroup.

[fruitbat]

Mine says R1a is a subgroup of R, then says Haplogroup: R, a subgroup of N. Not sure what the difference means. Maybe I have a Y chromosome :) It claims in the desc: Maternal haplogroups are families of mitochondrial DNA types that all trace back to a single mutation at a specific place and time. By looking at the geographic distribution of mtDNA types, we learn how our ancient female ancestors migrated throughout the world.

[Armatus]

Mine says R1a is a subgroup of R, then says Haplogroup: R, a subgroup of N. Not sure what the difference means. Maybe I have a Y chromosome :) It claims in the desc: Maternal haplogroups are families of mitochondrial DNA types that all trace back to a single mutation at a specific place and time. By looking at the geographic distribution of mtDNA types, we learn how our ancient female ancestors migrated throughout the world.

With what company did you test ?

R1a is relatively rare and it's pretty uncommon for Greece. There are only a few samples:
Russia (3)
Georgia (2)
Iran (1)
Armenia (1)
Sweden (1)
Portugal (1)
India (1)
Denmark (1)
England (1)
Ireland (1)

Seems to be a caucasian haplogroup.

[fruitbat]

@Armatus - yes, it appears very uncommon in Greece. So far, we have two R1a (my daughter and I) and two R2 (my 1st cousin and her mother). My results on 23andme showed up as 44.4% Italian and only 6.8% Balkan and 10% Middle Eastern. The rest was unassigned/undeclared - a huge chunk is missing. My cousin and aunt showed up Italian as well. We have recorded our residence in Crete and Xios for several generations back and have all Greek surnames. Our guess is we were probably from Genoa, since Xios (Chios) was occupied for 304 years by Genoa.

I did run GEDmatch, and used Eurogenes and it showed the highest number on both calc 1 and 2 as over 50% Greek. So I don't know how I ended up with R1a. Still new to this all and it's quite confusing :)

[MfA_]

FWIW, I have a Greek cousin from Xios with mtDNA R0a too..

[fruitbat]

I read somewhere J's are mainly Balkan. I am about to get my brother's results to see what my paternal haplogroup is. Maybe is he more Greek? Both sides migrated from Crete to Xios. I am suspecting (highly now) that most people from Xios are Italians. Small island, lots of marrying of 2nd, 3rd, 4th cousins. So the R must be all over Xios and other islands in Greece.

[MfA_]

I read somewhere J's are mainly Balkan. I am about to get my brother's results to see what my paternal haplogroup is. Maybe is he more Greek? Both sides migrated from Crete to Xios. I am suspecting (highly now) that most people from Xios are Italians. Small island, lots of marrying of 2nd, 3rd, 4th cousins. So the R must be all over Xios and other islands in Greece.

I think those islands had received some immigrants from Anatolia in 1900s.. My match said her family was actually from Cesme that they had to run back to Xios to survive..

[fruitbat]

Xios is a major port and still a place to escape to. Lots of history, indeed. Our family has history there from the 1600's, but we don't have any record of anything prior so this DNA test revealed some interesting things. I think - if everyone did this test, there would be less provocation for war.

[Armatus]

Xios is a major port and still a place to escape to. Lots of history, indeed. Our family has history there from the 1600's, but we don't have any record of anything prior so this DNA test revealed some interesting things. I think - if everyone did this test, there would be less provocation for war.

I agree with MfA, seems turkic to me. Especially if you consider the nearby turkish mainland. The question is when did they come to the island ? Does your family tree really provide a direct maternal line to 17th Century Chios ? That would be the key factor to give plausible answers about the age of your haplogroup in chios.
Italy seems very unlikely to me, not a single R1a sample. You can be autosomally still 99,99% Italian+Greek but bear a turkic haplogroup.

[fruitbat]

Yes, the Italian result threw me too. My cousin and aunt (R2) both came up Italian as well. 23andme goes up to 500 years ago where we supposedly were prior to intercontinental travel - which doesn't match our records. I can see R1a as the base of where we came from though.

We began in Crete in 1600's (no record of prior) and came to Xios in the 1800's.

Here are the GEDmatch results someone ran for me:

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 GR 54.20%
2 Druze 17.78%
3 Scottish 11.00%
4 Bedouin 5.60%
5 Tuscan 5.39%
6 GE 3.20%
7 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 1.89%
8 AJ 0.94%
9 IR 0.00%
10 IE 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 GR 48.38%
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 13.05%
3 Druze 10.13%
4 Bedouin 7.97%
5 Scottish 6.27%
6 IR 5.77%
7 IE 3.49%
8 Tuscan 2.78%
9 North_Swedish 1.08%
10 Armenian 1.08%

[Armatus]

Crete ? That's interesting. If i remember correctly it was settled from Asia Minor. Could be an old cretan lineage.