Neanderthals (probably) domesticated dogs in europe

[Prisoner Of Ice]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-origin-of-domesticated-dogs.html



The mitochondrial genomes of all modern dogs are phylogenetically most closely related to either ancient or modern canids of Europe. Molecular dating suggests an onset of domestication there 18,800 to 32,100 years ago.


Modern canines seem to descend from european dogs. The "molecular clock" estimates put it at 20-30k years ago which is right when "modern" humans start to show up in europe, but these molecular clock estimates are minimums and constantly prove to have a bias towards making ages seem smaller than they are.

Since there's actual archaeological evidence of domesticated dogs in china around 33k BC and since they come from europe, obviously they were actually domesticated in neanderthal times. No big surprise to me at this point, now I am just waiting for (direct) evidence that horses were domesticated by neanderthal....

[ChocolateFace]

Interesting.

[Stanley]

What are you talking about? That's not evidence neanderthals domesticated dogs. At all.


No big surprise to me at this point, now I am just waiting for (direct) evidence that horses were domesticated by neanderthal....

Haha. Were neanderthals the first to reach the moon as well?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They were first in virtually everything. They had seafaring 50k years before "modern" humans, and were first to make complex bone tools, and first to make artwork (which was more advanced than anything to come until 14th century).

If dogs come from europe and there's domesticated dogs in china 33k years ago, it had to be neanderthals. There was no one else in europe yet - they were just arriving at the time....

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Interesting.

[Stanley]

Interdasting.

[Neanderthal]

Were neanderthals the first to reach the moon as well?

In a sense, yes. The first person to step in the moon was a white person = Neanderthal DNA.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I wish we had sequencing data for astronauts. Interestingly they all come from similar backgrounds in "flyover" states.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Neanderthal DNA.

One small step for a neanderthal, one giant leap for mankind.

[Max07]

I'm so proud. :cry2

[Prisoner Of Ice]

It was in belgium and altai at same time. Both places neanderthal artifacts have been found.

[Kale]

Dog in China 33kya. People in Europe 45kya. Were our thumbs up our butts for 12ky? That's a possibility...but we still had time to get shit done.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Dog in China 33kya. People in Europe 45kya. Were our thumbs up our butts for 12ky? That's a possibility...but we still had time to get shit done.

No, wrong all around. First off Altai is not in china, it's in russia. This is near denisova cave, and was last holdout in the east for non moderns.

Second off, people were NOT in europe for 45k years. Cromag 1 is maybe at 30k, and the only thing older than that is way further east and shows clear neanderthal features. Neanderthals held out in western europe until at least 25k years ago. So this can't have been modern humans.

[Kale]

No, wrong all around. First off Altai is not in china, it's in russia. This is near denisova cave, and was last holdout in the east for non moderns.

Second off, people were NOT in europe for 45k years. Cromag 1 is maybe at 30k, and the only thing older than that is way further east and shows clear neanderthal features. Neanderthals held out in western europe until at least 25k years ago. So this can't have been modern humans.

Ok Russia? That's even less of a distance, should shave a couple years off our route. For moderns older than 33ky in Europe, look around, there's a couple of em found.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezmaiskaya_cave

Full neanderthals in europe less than 30k years ago. So how did the not existing 'modern' humans domesticate dogs 6-10k years before they came to europe?

[Kale]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezmaiskaya_cave

Full neanderthals in europe less than 30k years ago. So how did the not existing 'modern' humans domesticate dogs 6-10k years before they came to europe?

Ok, let's try and follow your logic here
1) Neanderthals were in Europe 30kya
2) ?
Conclusion: Modern humans could not have been in Europe 30kya

The only thing you could put in premise 2 to make that conclusion correct would be "Neanderthals and humans cannot coexist". Ok, so that means we never interbred, there goes half of your theories.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Ok, maybe not. More like wolves.