Lithuania: Homophobic politician delivers trousers with anal zip to LGBT group

[Ingrid]

Lithuania: Homophobic politician delivers trousers with anal zip to LGBT group

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/11/15/lithuania-homophobic-politician-delivers-trousers-with-buttock-zip-to-lgbt-group/
A pair of sexually provocative trousers, featuring a zip directly where a male’s buttocks would meet, has been delivered to an LGBT group by a Lithuanian Member of Parliament who equates homosexuality with paedophilia.
Campaign organisation LGL said it received the item from Petras Gražulis, who came to their office to deliver a personal “present”.
The politician was accompanied by an unidentified cameraman, who filmed the LGL’s staff and premises without permission.
Members of LGL have been taking part in a European Union hate crime conference in the Lithuanian city of Vilnius – and it appears Mr Gražulis was trying to make a political statement against the event.
Mr Gražulis, a member of the Law and Order Party, is known for his extreme anti-gay views in Lithuania, equating homosexuality with paedophilia and bestiality. In May 2012, he gate-crashed an LGBT rights event attended by senior foreign officials and declared that all gay people should leave the country.
“How are homosexuals better than necrophiliacs or paedophiles?” he exclaimed. “I’m ashamed that the rotten West, coming from the European Union that is morally corrupted, propagates this to Lithuania and tells us how we should treat homosexuals. Gays should leave Lithuania, not dictate their terms to us.”
He was particularly appalled that “homosexuality is presented to the youth as a commendable phenomenon. All nations and empires fell because of this moral rottenness, Sodom and Gomorrah.”






http://www.lgl.lt/en/files/WP_000220.jpghttp://www.lgl.lt/en/files/WP_000223.jpghttp://www.lgl.lt/en/files/WP_000224.jpg

[Loki]

Haha, cool.

[Aunt Hilda]

Haha, cool.

Rusell Brand disaproves

[Loki]

Rusell Brand disaproves

You know how to hit me where it hurts :laugh:

[Breedingvariety]

For a while "Law and Order" was marginalized in Lithuania and I unconsciously felt less negative about the party compared to other parties. It seems the party is returning to mainstream politic arena of Lithuania now. And this homophobic stunt is a reality check for me. I have to remember the party is no different than any other. Homophobia is very prevalent in Lithuania, even though pedophilia is prevalent among Lithuanian political elites. The stunt will be popular for large sections of society. By using homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia as synonyms they expose themselves as very stupid lot as these words have very different meanings. Also they show themselves as disgusting perverts by talking such slanderous language.

[Ingrid]

By the way, Ingrid. Interesting choise for the a first thread /post in this forum :D
thanks, I thought it's an interesting story.

[Melina]

Lithuania: Homophobic politician delivers trousers with anal zip to LGBT group

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/11/15/lithuania-homophobic-politician-delivers-trousers-with-buttock-zip-to-lgbt-group/
A pair of sexually provocative trousers, featuring a zip directly where a male’s buttocks would meet, has been delivered to an LGBT group by a Lithuanian Member of Parliament who equates homosexuality with paedophilia.
Campaign organisation LGL said it received the item from Petras Gražulis, who came to their office to deliver a personal “present”.
The politician was accompanied by an unidentified cameraman, who filmed the LGL’s staff and premises without permission.
Members of LGL have been taking part in a European Union hate crime conference in the Lithuanian city of Vilnius – and it appears Mr Gražulis was trying to make a political statement against the event.
Mr Gražulis, a member of the Law and Order Party, is known for his extreme anti-gay views in Lithuania, equating homosexuality with paedophilia and bestiality. In May 2012, he gate-crashed an LGBT rights event attended by senior foreign officials and declared that all gay people should leave the country.
“How are homosexuals better than necrophiliacs or paedophiles?” he exclaimed. “I’m ashamed that the rotten West, coming from the European Union that is morally corrupted, propagates this to Lithuania and tells us how we should treat homosexuals. Gays should leave Lithuania, not dictate their terms to us.”
He was particularly appalled that “homosexuality is presented to the youth as a commendable phenomenon. All nations and empires fell because of this moral rottenness, Sodom and Gomorrah.”






http://www.lgl.lt/en/files/WP_000220.jpghttp://www.lgl.lt/en/files/WP_000223.jpghttp://www.lgl.lt/en/files/WP_000224.jpg

Wow I wish I was Lithuanian. Lucky people they are. Glad there are politicians that aren't scared of the wests agenda.

[Ingrid]

Wow I wish I was Lithuanian. Lucky people they are. Glad there are politicians that aren't scared of the wests agenda.

yes, sawing a zipper into the back of what appears to be children's trousers is not at all disturbing.

[Melina]

yes, sawing a zipper into the back of what appears to be children's trousers is not at all disturbing.

He is obviously trying to make a point. Most pedophiles were abused as children and even became homosexuals. It is all connected. Most people believe that homosexuals are behind the abuse of children. Is it far from reality? I don't think so.

[Loki]

Aunt Hilda, I'm thinking of getting you one for Christmas. You know, it can be applied as part of your female mate value. You have to put it out. Ask Mary for further details.

[Ingrid]

He is obviously trying to make a point. Most pedophiles were abused as children and even became homosexuals. It is all connected. Most people believe that homosexuals are behind the abuse of children. Is it far from reality? I don't think so.

science does, as well as people who can differentiate between Paraphilias' and Homosexuality.

[SchwarzenCatzz]

this gay issue is totally out of proportion.
I mean, is there anything in the world but gays? forget those gay people and move your life, there are ore important things in politics than this

[Breedingvariety]

yes, sawing a zipper into the back of what appears to be children's trousers is not at all disturbing.
If these are small size trousers, then it is symbolic of their perversions. Stunts like these are sickening and hopeless.

[Melina]

Nope, in Russia most pedophiles have been proven to be child molesters as well. Is it a coincidence that most of the offenders caught were gay?
Also isn't a coincidence that right after gay marriage being legal in some states in the U.S that some people have come out to say that liking children is a lifestyle?

[Melina]

this gay issue is totally out of proportion.
I mean, is there anything in the world but gays? forget those gay people and move your life, there are ore important things in politics than this

LGBT likes to impose their views on everyone else. Even defend pedophiles like they have been doing this year with the 22 year old man who wanted to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old in Russia.

[Ingrid]

Nope, in Russia most pedophiles have been proven to be child molesters as well. Is it a coincidence that most of the offenders caught were gay?
Also isn't a coincidence that right after gay marriage being legal in some states in the U.S that some people have come out to say that liking children is a lifestyle?

you need a shrink lol

[Melina]

you need a shrink lol

Lol you are new in this forum right? I suggest you take a back seat before telling a veteran member they need a shrink. Anyways that is all you can think of? You have no argument so you have to come up with insults. How smart.

[SchwarzenCatzz]

LGBT likes to impose their views on everyone else. Even defend pedophiles like they have been doing this year with the 22 year old man who wanted to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old in Russia.

Yes, I am against it too. If you are gay just be gay, don't make it a flag or an ideology. Don't make gay rights parade. Like I said, it's out of proportion. There are more important issues, the world doesn't spin around you, gay people.

In my opinion it is a mental disease, they are so fuck up in the head that they don't even realize that the more they cry their rights, the more other people hate them. things are not working all right in their heads, or they would realize it.

[Ingrid]

Lol you are new in this forum right? I suggest you take a back seat before telling a veteran member they need a shrink. Anyways that is all you can think of? You have no argument so you have to come up with insults. How smart.

do you want me to kiss your as dear veteran? I don't need to argue, I simply don't care enough to engage you in a discussion.

[Aunt Hilda]

Aunt Hilda, I'm thinking of getting you one for Christmas. You know, it can be applied as part of your female mate value. You have to put it out. Ask Mary for further details.
again, Rusell Brand disproves ;)

[Melina]

do you want me to kiss your as dear veteran? I don't need to argue, I simply don't care enough to engage you in a discussion.

Obviously you do since you insulted me and responded back. No I don't like people kissing my ass, but I also don't like new members coming in thinking they are big shots and know everything about veteran members.

[Aunt Hilda]

Obviously you do since you insulted me and responded back. No I don't like people kissing my ass, but I also don't like new members coming in thinking they are big shots and know everything about veteran members.
I agree, you need a shrink.

[Breedingvariety]

Also isn't a coincidence that right after gay marriage being legal in some states in the U.S that some people have come out to say that liking children is a lifestyle?
Pedophilia is the next battle of sexual liberation in the west. In Lithuania there is still a battle to make homosexuality normal.

It is possible that such stupid behavior as this case, could be a way to discredit homophobia.

I think homosexuality is within the confines of acceptable sexual liberty.

[Melina]

I agree, you need a shrink.

Most people here don't like your opinions and don't like you as a mod. I don't agree at most of what you say yet I have never insulted you. Anyways this conversation is between me and Ingrid you have no business butting in unless one of us was misbehaving.

[Ingrid]

Most people here don't like your opinions and don't like you as a mod. I don't agree at most of what you say yet I have never insulted you. Anyways this conversation is between me and Ingrid you have no business butting in unless one of us was misbehaving.
stop trying to engage me in a discussion, I told you I don't care lol

[Melina]

Pedophilia is the next battle of sexual liberation in the west. In Lithuania there is still a battle to make homosexuality normal.

It is possible that such stupid behavior as this case, could be a way to discredit homophobia.

I think homosexuality is within the confines of acceptable sexual liberty.

Homosexuality has existed for a long time. The thing is now people are using homosexuality as a route to make pedophilia as a "life style".

[SchwarzenCatzz]

it is the marxist way of thinking: you cry cry cry, name call, name call, name call, and you get what you want.

[Also]

Homosexuality is a disorder without cure so far.

[inactive_member]

Haha, cool.

I like their creativity. ;)

[SchwarzenCatzz]

Homosexuality is a disorder without cure so far.

Xianty is bad for you, get out of the jebus cult

[inactive_member]

Mr. Gražulis is known for actively expressing his anti homosexual views. It's not the first, nor the last time when he acts like that.

There's nothing wrong expressing one's opinion in a peaceful civil manner. :)

[lei.talk]

The term paraphilia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia) was coined by Wilhelm Stekel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Stekel) in the 1920s.

John Money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money) described paraphilia as "a sexuoerotic embellishment of, or alternative to the official, ideological norm."

In the late 19th century, psychologists and psychiatrists started to categorize various paraphilias as they wanted a more descriptive system than the legal and religious constructs of sodomy and perversion. Before the introduction of the term paraphilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disord ers)-III (1980), the term sexual deviation was used to refer to paraphilias in the first two editions of the manual. In 1981 an article published in American Journal of Psychiatry described paraphilia as "recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors generally involving:

Non-human objects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_sexuality)
The suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM)
Children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia)
Non-consenting persons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biastophilia)

Homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality) was at one time discussed as a sexual deviation. Sigmund Freud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud) and subsequent psychoanalytic thinkers considered homosexuality and paraphilias to result from psychosexual regression to an infantile state.

By the mid-20th century, mental health practitioners began formalizing "deviant sexuality" classifications into categories. Originally coded as 000-x63, homosexuality was the top of the classification list (Code 302.0) until the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973. Martin Kafka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Kafka) writes, "Sexual disorders once considered paraphilias (e.g., homosexuality) are now regarded as variants of normal sexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kink_(sexual))."


any one waiting for boko-maru
to be taken from the list?

[Also]

Xianty is bad for you, get out of the jebus cult

No, it is not bad for me. My views on homosexuality have little to do with my religion. Homosexuality was considered a disease by the WHO (World Health Organization) up to 1990.

[Graham]

Most people here don't like your opinions and don't like you as a mod.

No, some of us are ok with Migla.

You should not speak for everyone.

[inactive_member]

Gražulis once has said that gays should be imprisoned for being gay. There is something comical in this person and it's not hard to notice this even if you are 'homophobic'.

I don't think he meant it. He probably said it because people who vote for him like the kind of rhetoric. :)

[sevruk]

cool

[inactive_member]

Anyway. Those recent gay parades are something outrageus for regular Lithuanians. Most people did not want them. Lithuanians don't want gays and their issues to go public. So, Gražulis actions don't seem that extreme from this perspective. Except that your regular Lithuanian will be less expressive and here lies his specialness.

There's nothing special about those gay parades. I attended Mardi Grass once. People from around the world with wicked sense of fashion walked along the streets. There were some locals bringing their children to the parade.

[inactive_member]

There's a difference between gay activists and between gay people.

Exactly. It's not the sexual relationship between people of the same gender, it's the activities of hippies and lefties promoting the LGBT rights that annoy people. They shouldn't be shoving their sexual preferences in other people's faces. It's as bizarre as straight people begin celebrating their favourite sex positions on street festivals constantly discussing them in media.

Sex is considered a private affair in most societies. Promoting sexual relationship of any kind in public will cause resentment.

[SchwarzenCatzz]

Exactly. It's not the sexual relationship between people of the same gender, it's the activities of hippies and lefties promoting the LGBT rights that annoy people. They shouldn't be shoving their sexual preferences in other people's faces. It's as bizarre as straight people begin celebrating their favourite sex positions on street festivals constantly discussing them in media.

Sex is considered a private affair in most societies. Promoting sexual relationship of any kind in public will cause resentment.

Exactly

[Breedingvariety]

I don't think he meant it. He probably said it because people who vote for him like the kind of rhetoric. :)
Majority of Lithuanians like it. And quite large percentage aggressively express it.

[Hercus Monte]

Majority of Lithuanians like it. And quite large percentage aggressively express it.

na, apie tai diskutuoti galima.

[Breedingvariety]

na, apie tai diskutuoti galima.
Beside direct homophobia, there is "I accept them freaks" tolerance.

[Hercus Monte]

Beside direct homophobia, there is "I accept them freaks" tolerance.
na, jei delfi visa diena leidi tai gal, bet pasivaiksciojus ir tu vakarietisko tipo zmoniu yra nemazai, bent jau Vilniuj.

[Breedingvariety]

na, jei delfi visa diena leidi tai gal, bet pasivaiksciojus ir tu vakarietisko tipo zmoniu yra nemazai, bent jau Vilniuj.
Vilnius is more tolerant, but still...

Lithuania is nowhere near as tolerant as Western countries.

[Hercus Monte]

Vilnius is more tolerant, but still...

Lithuania is nowhere near as tolerant as Western countries.
I dind't say that. but to portray us as Russians is probably not a good way of talking about it.

over 80% of russians think talking about gay rights should be punishable, even delfi readers don't agree(to be more precise less than 20% agree)

[Aunt Hilda]

I thought I should delete Marina and Hilda's OT right in the beginning. It was pretty clear it's OT. It would be deleted in any case for this reason. At least Hilda let's you enjoy for some time. Next time I won't wait. I promise. :nono:
go for it.

[Breedingvariety]

I dind't say that. but to portray us as Russians is probably not a good way of talking about it.

over 80% of russians think talking about gay rights should be punishable, even delfi readers don't agree(to be more precise less than 20% agree)
I don't know about situation in Russia. I just tend to think it is similar to Lithuania even if it was more intolerant.

[Hercus Monte]

I don't know about situation in Russia. I just tend to think it is similar to Lithuania even if it was more intolerant.
all post-soviet countries are similar in that we didn't have a sexual revolution in the 60's-70's like the west did. but the intolerance in staggeringly different.

than again, I've yet to see Simonko walking around in a Jockstrap let alone talk about his sex life, like it is in the west.
here they just walk around acting all normal and talking about the legal challenges they face, not even remotely comparable.

[Hercus Monte]

Mr.Simonko should first of all reveal who finances Lithuanian Gay League. Or did I miss the news?
probably some sugar-dady from Brussels. LGL isn't even popular among gay people. lets just remember what Zilinskas said about them.

I can understand why, simonko doesn't even speak proper lithuanian, let alone display any reasoning skills in the language.

[Breedingvariety]

However, this isn't sex (an act of sex) homosexual people are bringing up. They do not want to hide a fact they're homosexual because being open about their preferences calls out unplesant reactions. Partnership is far from being just about sex. Though finding a couple (including for sex only obviously) can be difficult for this reason that homosexual people feel like having to hide their orientation.
So, most straight people here feel resentment towards both a sexual act and a long term relationship between two people of the same sex.
Let's say there are many tolerant people in Vilnius. But even a small percentage of aggressively homophobic people is enough to keep homosexuality secret as openness about it would involve dealing with aggression in random situations. That is not the case in the west.

[Hercus Monte]

Let's say there are many tolerant people in Vilnius. But even a small percentage of aggressively homophobic people is enough to keep homosexuality secret as openness about it would involve dealing with aggression in random situations. That is not the case in the west.
I think the main point they are trying to archive is that stuff like this wouldn't happen. http://www.delfi.lt/pramogos/zmones/koncerte-kiausiniais-apmetytas-rkirilkinas-buvo-isveztas-i-ligonine.d?id=60771785

Ironic, because stuff like this only started happening AFTER Simonko started appearing on the news.

[Breedingvariety]

I think the main point they are trying to archive is that stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Ironic, because stuff like this only started happening AFTER Simonko started appearing on the news.
I'm not big into mainstream news. The bottom line, it is 100 % lies in one or all respects. When it comes to issue like that, I can only speculate what might be the reasons behind writing such stories.

And the story with the singer is just normal event. Almost something one should expect.

[inactive_member]

However, this isn't sex (an act of sex) homosexual people are bringing up. They do not want to hide a fact they're homosexual because being open about their preferences calls out unplesant reactions. Partnership is far from being just about sex. Though finding a couple (including for sex only obviously) can be difficult for this reason that homosexual people feel like having to hide their orientation.
So, most straight people here feel resentment towards both a sexual act and a long term relationship between two people of the same sex.

Right! And the LGBT activists need to wear clothing with a hundred of penises hanging from top to bottom to get their point across.

Promoting sexual preferences be it homosexuality or any other form will be condemned because sex is a private affair. Public will hold similar opinion about gerontophils or sadomasochists taking to the streets with their agendas if they feel being discriminated against.

Sex subject was a taboo in our societies for many centuries let alone homosexuality. Don't expect people to change their attitudes in a short period of time. Also, I cannot understand the attitudes of some thinking intolerance towards sexual minorities making their society less 'western'.

[Hercus Monte]

And the story with the singer is just normal event. Almost something one should expect.
What do you mean? I'm not a fan of his music but he doesn't deserve eggs to be thrown at him.



Sex subject was a taboo in our societies for many centuries let alone homosexuality. well that's not really true.
I remember my gran telling me that homosovieticus was much less used to the topic of sex than her generation. In fact her mom even used to make jokes about sex and how to learn russian.(you piece it together)

[Breedingvariety]

Right! And the LGBT activists need to wear clothing with a hundred of penises hanging from top to bottom to get their point across.

Promoting sexual preferences be it homosexuality or any other form will be condemned because sex is a private affair. Public will hold similar opinion about gerontophils or sadomasochists taking to the streets with their agendas if they feel being discriminated against.
Those are not spontaneous gay rallies, those are politically financed rallies. Wheres aggression against gays usually is spontaneous.

Sex subject was a taboo in our societies for many centuries let alone homosexuality. Don't expect people to change their attitudes in a short period of time. Also, I cannot understand the attitudes of some thinking intolerance towards minorities making their society less western.
I'm not arguing what Western means. I'm talking about what Western is today. In other words- present situation in Western Europe and North America.

[Breedingvariety]

What do you mean? I'm not a fan of his music but he doesn't deserve eggs to be thrown at him.
I mean, you can expect that to happen in Lithuania, not that he deserves it.

[Hercus Monte]

I mean, you can expect that to happen in Lithuania, not that he deserves it.
I disagree, news like that are always shocking and surprising. Kinda like when Berdeen was assaulted.
http://www.lrytas.lt/-12084356861206447057-daininink%C4%97s-berneen-u%C5%BEpuolik%C4%97-suimta-dviem-m%C4%97nesiams-dar-papildyta-2-video-nuotraukos.htm

[Breedingvariety]

I disagree, news like that are always shocking and surprising. Kinda like when Berdeen was assaulted.
http://www.lrytas.lt/-12084356861206447057-daininink%C4%97s-berneen-u%C5%BEpuolik%C4%97-suimta-dviem-m%C4%97nesiams-dar-papildyta-2-video-nuotraukos.htm
I repeat: "I'm not big into mainstream news. The bottom line, it is 100 % lies in one or all respects." And that is regardless of topic.

[inactive_member]

well that's not really true.
I remember my gran telling me that homosovieticus was much less used to the topic of sex than her generation. In fact her mom even used to make jokes about sex and how to learn russian.(you piece it together)

Fourty years of Soviet history is a tiny fraction of the history of your nation. Cultural values and beliefs of the society were shaped by Christianity in the last several hundreds years.

[Hercus Monte]

I repeat: "I'm not big into mainstream news. The bottom line, it is 100 % lies in one or all respects." And that is regardless of topic.
ok, I don't share that view, but it doesn't matter.


Fourty years of Soviet history is a tiny fraction of the history of your nation. Cultural values and beliefs of the society were shaped by Christianity in the last several hundreds years.cultural norms and beliefs change all the time, the Soviet period is more relevant today than the cultural norms from a few hundred years ago.

[inactive_member]

Those are not spontaneous gay rallies, those are politically financed rallies. Wheres aggression against gays usually is spontaneous.

I condemn any form of aggression towards any group of people. Also, the gay and lesbian festivals are staged around the world annually, as the festivals bring some financial benefits to the cities hosting them. They are commercial events now.

[Pure ja]

this gay issue is totally out of proportion.
I mean, is there anything in the world but gays? forget those gay people and move your life, there are ore important things in politics than this

Not according to Obama administration.
The US ambassador in Estonia has put out more statements on gay issues than, let's say, on AGW issues.

[inactive_member]

cultural norms and beliefs change all the time, the Soviet period is more relevant today than the cultural norms from a few hundred years ago.

It had some influence on a generation that lived during soviet era which was only 40 years. Christianity has had a profound effect on all European societies which we don't realise it believing our societies are secular today.

[Hercus Monte]

It had some influence on a generation that lived during soviet era which was only 40 years. Christianity has had a profound effect on all European societies which we don't realise it believing our societies are secular today.
of course Christianity had an effect, but it's minimal(especially for people who lived in the soviet period).

[Pure ja]

LGBT likes to impose their views on everyone else. Even defend pedophiles like they have been doing this year with the 22 year old man who wanted to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old in Russia.

I am not sure about RF laws, but that might be a borderline case.

[armenianbodyhair]

How mature of him, clearly he is fit to represent his country.

[Breedingvariety]

How mature of him, clearly he is fit to represent his country.
It's school bully or street thug mature.

[Hercus Monte]

How mature of him, clearly he is fit to represent his country.
hardly.

[inactive_member]

our Christianity had an effect, but it's minimal(especially for people who lived in the soviet period).

Christianity played a central role in forming a national identity in your country. That's a historic fact. There is also a popular opinion that intolerance towards sexual minorities resulted from the fact that Christian churches regarded homosexual sex as sinful in the past. The religion was very important in European societies in the past often religious leaders being as powerful as the rulers themselves. If the Church was stating that homosexual sex is sinful, then a society was embracing that belief passing it from one generation to another. As I stated Christianity shaped the beliefs and traditions of the European societies despite people are considering themselves non-religious today.

[Hercus Monte]

Christianity played a central role in forming a national identity in your country. That's a historic fact. There is also a popular opinion that intolerance towards sexual minorities resulted from the fact that Christian churches regarded homosexual sex as sinful in the past. The religion was very important in European societies in the past often religious leader being as powerful as the rulers themselves. If the Church was stating that homosexual sex is sinful, then a society will embrace this belief passing it from one generation to another. As I stated Christianity shaped the beliefs and traditions of the European societies.
the church was banned and everyone was learning Leninist and Stalinist propaganda in the SU. that had a much bigger effect.

[Melina]

the church was banned and everyone was learning Leninist and Stalinist propaganda in the SU. that had a much bigger effect.

I thought that during the soviet era churches were burned and that homosexual rights flourished during those times right after Tsar was killed.

[Melina]

Christianity played a central role in forming a national identity in your country. That's a historic fact. There is also a popular opinion that intolerance towards sexual minorities resulted from the fact that Christian churches regarded homosexual sex as sinful in the past. The religion was very important in European societies in the past often religious leaders being as powerful as the rulers themselves. If the Church was stating that homosexual sex is sinful, then a society was embracing that belief passing it from one generation to another. As I stated Christianity shaped the beliefs and traditions of the European societies despite people are considering themselves non-religious today.

Funny a Russian who escaped from the soviet union told me the opposite. He said that they used the churches for KGB as for arm of intelligence. Homosexuality was banned not because of Christianity but because they considered it a mental disorder.

[Hercus Monte]

I thought that during the soviet era churches were burned .
no


and that homosexual rights flourished during those times right after Tsar was killed.
we only became part of the SU in 1940's, so I'm not sure.
but as far as I know, no, homosexuality was a punishable offence, probably capital punishment.

[Breedingvariety]

I thought that during the soviet era churches were burned and that homosexual rights flourished during those times right after Tsar was killed.
So called "cultural marxism" is flourishing in the West. Eastern Europe is trying to catch up.

[Dandelion]

Well, he probably didn't develop those pants. Or did he? ;)

[Dandelion]

I thought that during the soviet era churches were burned and that homosexual rights flourished during those times right after Tsar was killed.

Under Lenin it was decriminalised (though not explicitly, they just got rid of the Tsarist laws). Under Stalin it became outlawed again (as a supposed 'perversion').

[Hercus Monte]

I can't help but Imagine him sawing those pants at night time, putting much thought and care into it.

Probably took him weeks to finish xD

[Dandelion]

So called "cultural marxism" is flourishing in the West. Eastern Europe is trying to catch up.

I wonder how long at will take before multiculturalism will be forced on the population in Eastern European countries.

[Hercus Monte]

I wonder how long at will take before multiculturalism will be forced on the population in Eastern European countries.
we were part of the SU, you really think we don't know what multiculturalism is?

[Dandelion]

we were part of the SU, you really think we don't know what multiculturalism is?

Well, Lithuanians are kind of delivered from it if you ask me. 85% is ethic Lithuanian and only less than 6% Russian and some more Polish. All European ethnicities, though.

Western style multiculturalism would mean 50% of the children in Vilnius below the age of 10 are from muslim household.

[Hercus Monte]

Well, Lithuanians are kind of delivered from it if you ask me. 85% is ethic Lithuanian and only less than 6% Russian and some more Polish. All European ethnicities, though.
it's used to be more, we assimilated most immigrants.
also, I see no difference if it's a European ethnicity or not. A foreigner is a foreigner.

[inactive_member]

Funny a Russian who escaped from the soviet union told me the opposite. He said that they used the churches for KGB as for arm of intelligence. Homosexuality was banned not because of Christianity but because they considered it a mental disorder.

Look deeper and think wider. ;) People didn't fall from they skies with the arrival of the Soviet government. Governments and rulers had come and gone, while people kept their beliefs, traditions and moral values throughout centuries.

[Dandelion]

it's used to be more, we assimilated most immigrants.
also, I see no difference if it's a European ethnicity or not. A foreigner is a foreigner.

Well, that's true for neighbouring ethnicities who tend to assimilate less easily I guess, as well as how many of the same ethnicity there are.

[papa diddy pop]

Even if i don't share all Gražulis opinion , I find this funny

[Dandelion]

Funny a Russian who escaped from the soviet union told me the opposite. He said that they used the churches for KGB as for arm of intelligence. Homosexuality was banned not because of Christianity but because they considered it a mental disorder.

Communism is a political system which works like a religion. A lot of the old Christian Orthodox beliefs also probably were just a substratum for their new doctrine. Even left-handedness was a taboo in the Soviet Union, just like in Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Catholicism, etc... They just didn't call it 'of the devil' under communism. An atheist state that didn't entirely got rid of its past dogmata.

[Hercus Monte]

Look deeper and think wider. ;) People didn't fall from they skies with the arrival of the Soviet government. Governments and rulers had come and gone, while people kept their beliefs, traditions and moral values throughout centuries.
they were revolutionaries, not priests and traditionalists.


Well, that's true for neighbouring ethnicities who tend to assimilate less easily I guess, as well as how many of the same ethnicity there are.
yes, Polish people have a historical background here and they're aware if this. it's much more difficult to assimilate them especially in the information age.

[inactive_member]

Communism is a political system which works like a religion. A lot of the old Christian Orthodox beliefs also probably were just a substratum for their new doctrine. Even left-handedness was a taboo in the Soviet Union, just like in Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Catholicism, etc...

Communism is an ideology.

[Dandelion]

Communism is an ideology.

With the same amount of dogmatism as in a religion.

[inactive_member]

they were revolutionaries, not priests and traditionalists.

You are placing plenty of emphasis on soviet government influence unnecessarily. The current government of your country is probably the reason, because it's important for Lithuanian society to remember Soviet occupation. There's a still a country that hasn't abandoned colonial politics.

The central Asian republics had little influence from Soviet government despite staying in Soviet sphere longer. People were allowed to do things customary to their traditions. Moreover, there are many societies around the world which never had socialist or communist governments which are very conservative.

[Hercus Monte]

You are placing plenty of emphasis on soviet government influence unnecessarily.
no, I think it's only fair.

The current government of your country is probably the reason, because it's important for Lithuanian society to remember USSR occupied Lithuania. It'd be difficult to forget that now wouldn't it? especially when you consider how many of us they slaughtered.

There's a still a country that haven't abandoned colonial politics. I am only speculating.

it ain't us, but we do have a plot of land right next to us that changed it's language, demographics and culture almost overnight.




The central Asian republics had very little influence from Soviet government despite staying in Soviet sphere longer. People were allowed to do things customary to their traditions. Moreover, there are many societies around the world which never had socialist governments who are very conservative.

that's not very relevant, while the SU was very conservative on some rights, they were very liberal on others(abortion, etc.)

[Hercus Monte]

Russians came under different circumstances. Apparently even the government of Soviet Lithuanian republic wasn't so fond of immigrants. Read here.
(http://www.balsas.lt/naujiena/552543/kodel-sovietmeciu-i-lietuva-nepripludo-atejunu)
You can say illegal immigrants also come without approval to Sweden let's say. However, Swedish government chose to accept people that could be sent back. That Lithuania has relatively easy integrated Soviet immigrants, has to do with the fact they're simply not very numerous and the flow of immigration stopped when SU fell.
yes, and they're quite well integrated now.
lets face reality, we're not a welfare states and not that attractive to those immigrants. When we talk about immigrants in the last 20 years, we're mostly talking about educated, skilled workers or entrepreneurs.

[Breedingvariety]

Would you justify.... (the % of respondents to prefered 'Never')
Interesting how perverse morality of whoever made this chart is. The 3 most immoral behaviors are behaviors that harm nobody. While cheating on ones spouse is not so immoral.

[Hercus Monte]

Would you justify.... (the % of respondents to prefered 'Never')




seems about right, especially when you consider how weird people in rural areas are, and that the average Lithuanian is ~40 years old.(aka Homo Sovieticus)

[Harkonnen]

Homos are very immoral and also quite often dangerous pedofiles. Maybe not always, but I bet there's a strong correlation.

[Hercus Monte]

Homosexuality on the other hand....I do no think pre-Christian Baltic people accepted it. At least written sources do not mention it.
From what I remember there are some records of Teutonic monks describing Prussian practices we might associate with homosexuality. and the monks were doing something we would definitely conciser to be homosexuality(I think I read it in the 'Lietuvos Didžiosios Kunigaikštystės kasdieninis gyvenimas' book by Gediminas Kulikauskas, but I don't have the book with me, so I cant check)



The words denoting marrying clearly show men and women had defined different roles in family and society. Homosexualism simply don't seem to had had a place in pre-pagan (and later on Christian) era.
well it depends on what you're referring to when talking about 'Homosexualism', they definitely had people who had same-sex attractions, but they most likely didn't form families.




Taking social benefits that do not belong to you/ giving bribes/ avoiding taxes indeed on a great part must be Soviet era influences. Though some of the views could have existed in pre-Soviet era, but they were strenghtened later on.

that's basically what I was referring to when I commented. the greatest effect the SU had seems to be suicide.

http://www.vpsc.lt/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=14:saviudybi-statistika&id=49:saviudybi-danis-lietuvoje-1930-40-ir-1986-2008-metais&Itemid=24&lang=en

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Homos are very immoral and also quite often dangerous pedofiles. Maybe not always, but I bet there's a strong correlation.

From what I've seen there isn't. Homosexuals are attracted to masculine traits. Pre-pubescent boys are lacking; they're not fully developed. If you consider men who try to have sex with teenagers as pedophiles (there is a different term for it that I can't remember) then you're right but the same could be said about straight men and teenage girls. Pedophiles (real pedophiles as the word is defined) only go after children. Teenagers are not children.

Of course someone can be both a homosexual and a pedophile but one doesn't necessarily mean the other.

[Hercus Monte]

From what I've seen there isn't. Homosexuals are attracted to masculine traits. Pre-pubescent boys are lacking; they're not fully developed. If you consider men who try to have sex with teenagers as pedophiles (there is a different term for it that I can't remember) then you're right but the same could be said about straight men and teenage girls. Pedophiles (real pedophiles as the word is defined) only go after children. Teenagers are not children.

Of course someone can be both a homosexual and a pedophile but one doesn't necessarily mean the other.


as someone already said Homosexuality is no longer classified as Paraphilia. more on it here - http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-012-9900-3/fulltext.html

[Melina]

From what I've seen there isn't. Homosexuals are attracted to masculine traits. Pre-pubescent boys are lacking; they're not fully developed. If you consider men who try to have sex with teenagers as pedophiles (there is a different term for it that I can't remember) then you're right but the same could be said about straight men and teenage girls. Pedophiles (real pedophiles as the word is defined) only go after children. Teenagers are not children.

Of course someone can be both a homosexual and a pedophile but one doesn't necessarily mean the other.

A man in his 20s having sex with let us say a 13 year old is pretty fucked up. That is why they have regulations set on places because there has to be a line drawn. A teen who is 13 does not have the same mentality as someone who is 18+. Pedophiles here is anyone who has sex with someone younger than 16 and on other states it is 18. Pedophile is a pedophile.

[Hercus Monte]

A man in his 20s having sex with let us say a 13 year old is pretty fucked up. That is why they have regulations set on places because there has to be a line drawn. A teen who is 13 does not have the same mentality as someone who is 18+. Pedophiles here is anyone who has sex with someone younger than 16 and on other states it is 18. Pedophile is a pedophile.
Pedophiles are usually describes as persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnostic criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).Many authors have historically applied the term “pedophilia” regardless of whether the sexually preferred children were pubescent or prepubescent. More recently, increased precision has been sought by restricting “pedophilia” to refer only to the interest in prepubescent children, “hebephilia” for that in early pubescent children, and pedohebephilia as an umbrella term (Blanchard 2010). (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19757012)

An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.

what's also interesting is that pedophiles don't seem to care about the gender of the victim.

[SKYNET]

That news :rotfl: :rotfl :rotfl: :rotfl :rotfl: :rotfl

[Melina]

That news :rotfl: :rotfl :rotfl: :rotfl :rotfl: :rotfl

Offended people get offended....

[SKYNET]

Offended people get offended....


I wouldn't say that "homophobic politician" is a homophobic politician. Lithuanian politician has big balls

[Melina]

And another thing on the article it never states this to be child trousers.

[Melina]

I wouldn't say that "homophobic politician" is a homophobic politician. Lithuanian politician has big balls

Most of Eastern European politicians have big balls. A Belarussian poltician once said something offensive about gays but I don't remember what it was. All I cann remember it had a lot of controversy in U.S. Then you have Vlademir Putin against gay propaganda. You could never compare those politicians to a soft dog like Obama.

[Hercus Monte]

Most of Eastern European politicians have big balls. A Belarussian poltician once said something offensive about gays but I don't remember what it was. All I cann remember it had a lot of controversy in U.S. Then you have Vlademir Putin against gay propaganda. You could never compare those politicians to a soft dog like Obama.
there's allot of politicians you could praise for family values, Grazulis is not one of them. His Wife dumped him because he didn't spend any time with her and their 2 children for 10 years.
Grazulis didn't even know the how old his children are and when they got divorced He hid all his property and money so that his ex-wife (and their children) wouldn't get anything.

[Melina]

there's allot of politicians you could praise for family values, Grazulis is not one of them. His Wife dumped him because he didn't spend any time with her and their 2 children for 10 years.
Grazulis didn't even know the how old his children are and then they got divorced He hid all his property and money so that his ex-wife (and their children) wouldn't get anything.

I don't value a politician for his personal life but what he has done for his country.

Obama for example can be a good father and a good husband but he is pretty much a bad politician. At least that is what I have observed the last few months.
Vladimir Putin cheated on his wife with a playboy model but he is allied with China and from what I heard he did a pretty good job to Stabilize Russia.
Politics is not about their personal lives but how well they can run a country economically,socially and most importantly keep the country safe from outside and domestic threats.

[cally]

No, it is not bad for me. My views on homosexuality have little to do with my religion. Homosexuality was considered a disease by the WHO (World Health Organization) up to 1990.

A mental disease interferes with your daily activities, mood and generally makes it difficult to cope with life's demands. Homosexual individuals are normal people who are sexually attracted to the same sex. They work, live, socialise just like you and me. Just because they deviate from social norms in their sexual preference doesn't mean they have a disease. There are people on forums who are in a far worse mental state and display signs of internet addiction/excessive racial obsession.

[Hercus Monte]

I don't value a politician for his personal life but what he has done for his country.

Grazulis has done nothing, if anything he helps the LGBT organisations, because he doesn't vote on the legislations(he pretended he was late for the voting, but before that he only talked about anti-gay legislations)

[Melina]

Putin does not represent a 'good' moral stance both from a liberal or conservative pov. Go praise Putin somewhere else. May I remind you this is a Lithuanian subforum.

And you point is? Everyone here comments pretty much on all subforums. Was just making a point, not praising Putin as you say.

[Hercus Monte]

And you point is? Everyone here comments pretty much on all subforums. Was just making a point, not praising Putin as you say.
discussing Putin and how good his policies are for Russia is very much OT, especially in the Lithuanian subforum.
Or do you not realize how bad his policies are for us?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

A man in his 20s having sex with let us say a 13 year old is pretty fucked up. That is why they have regulations set on places because there has to be a line drawn. A teen who is 13 does not have the same mentality as someone who is 18+. Pedophiles here is anyone who has sex with someone younger than 16 and on other states it is 18. Pedophile is a pedophile.

I agree it's fucked up but it wasn't considered unusual the further back you go in Europe or here. Ty Cobb's mother was 12 when she married his father. Although even at that time 12 would be seen as too young but her father must have considered the man's ability to provide a good life for his daughter and grandchildren. She was, um, his student. 15 or 16 would be more typical than 12 or 13, obviously, for the times but that story sticks out in my mind for how young the girl was and we're talking about the late 19th century USA. It was accepted.

[arcticwolf]

LoL


He should patent it, somebody is gonna make gazillions of this guy's creativity!
This is way more "ground breaking" idea lol (no pun) than pet rock ever was! :laugh:

[Hercus Monte]

LoL


He should patent it, somebody is gonna make gazillions of this guy's creativity!
This is way more "ground breaking" idea lol (no pun) than pet rock ever was! :laugh:afraid it's already a thing.
http://bleachers.co.uk/retail/j100z-back-zip-blue-jeans

[arcticwolf]

afraid it's already a thing.
http://bleachers.co.uk/retail/j100z-back-zip-blue-jeans

Go figure.

[cally]

Sorry I made a mistake on my above post....corrected it