Fire Haired
11-21-2013, 05:56 PM
40468
How I think 24,000 year old Siberian Mal'ta boy may have looked. Based on his K=9 autosomal DNA results and hair, eye, and skin color.
On October 18 and 19 there was some info released from the Paleoamerican Odyssey conference (http://paleoamericanodyssey.com/abstracts.html)(see here (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/paleoamericanodyssey-tweets-on-24000.html) and here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/10/surprising-adna-results-from.html)). Of a 24,000-year-old Siberian from the Mal'ta archaeological site, near Lake Baika. It was said he had Y DNA R, mtDNA U, mixed west Eurasian and native American like ancestry with no east Asian like ancestry, and much darker pigmented than Otzi (https://www.google.com/#q=otzi+the+iceman). Otzi was a early copper age farmer (about 5,300 years old) from the alps. He had brown hair, brown eyes, and fair skin. Ancient Eurasian DNA (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) says Mal'ta had dark brown hair, brown eyes, and dark skin. Now there is a paper on Mal'ta's genome in Nature. I have found four blogs which explain the results. From Euogenes (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/11/first-genome-of-upper-paleolithic-human.html?showComment=1385050614153#c589944786800 642566), Dienekes (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-upper-paleolithic-lake.html), Discover (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/11/long-first-age-mankind/#.Uo0eOcSkrIU), and Anthropogenesis (http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-malta-and-afontova-gora-a-full-account/). Please read the blogs and make your own conclusions. I don't understand the science of anything they are saying and I am not including everything they say either.
The original paper in its abstract argues that these very mixed partly west Eurasian Palaeolithic Siberians mixed with Native Americans ancestors.
The MA-1 mitochondrial genome belongs to haplogroup U, which has also been found at high frequency among Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and the Y chromosome of MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and near the root of most Native American lineages5. Similarly, we find autosomal evidence that MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and genetically closely related to modern-day Native Americans, with no close affinity to east Asians. This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought. Furthermore, we estimate that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population. This is likely to have occurred after the divergence of Native American ancestors from east Asian ancestors, but before the diversification of Native American populations in the New World. Gene flow from the MA-1 lineage into Native American ancestors could explain why several crania from the First Americans have been reported as bearing morphological characteristics that do not resemble those of east Asians. Sequencing of another south-central Siberian, Afontova Gora-2 dating to approximately 17,000 years ago14, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as MA-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum. Our findings reveal that western Eurasian genetic signatures in modern-day Native Americans derive not only from post- Columbian admixture, as commonly thought, but also from a mixed ancestry of the First Americans.
Euogenes and Anthropogensis show a bar graph from the K=9 (nine ancestral populations assumed) ADMIXTURE analysis with Mal'ta and modern populations(click here) (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2810/hhx4.png). Mal'ta seems to be mixed European(34%), south Asian(37%), Native American(16% or more), Oceania(0.4%), and possibly a little Siberian or Na Dene like ancestry. In the Euogenes blog I have a few posts my name is barakobama. Please don't trust my conclusion trust more of what the author Davidski says on the Siberian or Na Dene like ancestry. The reason I say European not just west Eurasian aka Caucasian. Is Because Mal'ta had 34% dark blue which seems very European in modern people. And connected to what has been called North European by Davidski in K=8(click here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/so-whos-most-european-of-us-all.html)), north European in globe13 and Atlantic Baltic in globe4(click here (http://dodecad.blogspot.com/)), north European in K12b and Atlantic Baltic in K7b(click here (http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2012/01/k12b-and-k7b-calculators.html)). While the light blue seems connected to all other west Eurasian groups and Mal'ta had 0%.
Autosomal DNA from Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gatherers. Show they were dominated by this north European like ancestry(click here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-on-east-baltic-as-refuge-for.html)). I wish I understood the science behind all of this I just try to understand what experts say. It seems though this is the case that Mal'ta had 34% ancestry from probably Europeans who lived over 24,000 years ago.
Mal'ta also very importantly had 37% green. Which seems very connected to what is called south Asian in globe13, K7b, K12b. So he had even more south Asian like ancestry. The 16% orange I would assume is some type of Native American like ancestry. The 4% green seems like Oceania like ancestry, and 1% pink may be some type of Na Dene or Siberian like ancestry. I don't understand the science behind all of this. Who knows how many complicated explanations there is for all of this.
the original paper says abstract says.
Afontova Gora-2 dating to approximately 17,000 years ago14, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as MA-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum
Meaning that Mal'ta was not a result of recent mixing but from a population of muts that lived in LGM (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLast_Gl acial_Maximum&ei=lFGOUtn0BMTiyAG094CoBw&usg=AFQjCNFYWAkE2mEs4S5Yt7CHeJ0SqCoPMw&sig2=pE7VE9y6CFgEKMl4XC47Aw&bvm=bv.56988011,d.aWc) Siberia.
Mal'ta boy's mtDNA haplogroup was U and German Deziebel shows in Anthropogenesis (http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-malta-and-afontova-gora-a-full-account/) that Mal'ta was apart of a now extinct U lineage. Not apart of any known subclades. 33,250 year old U2 was found in Kostenki, Russia, two 31,155 year old pre U5's(had two of 5 defining U5 mutations) and one U8 in Dolni Vestonice Czech republic(Ancient Eurasian DNA (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml)). All of the U found in Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter gathers were in a different lineage than Mal'ta's U possibly separated more than 50,000 years ago.
Mal'ta boy had Y DNA R his results can help figure out more about the confusing origin and spread of y DNA R. You can see in many of those blogs I(barakobama) bark at people for assuming his Y DNA R is from west Eurasia based on its modern distribution. You can see in many of my past threads and posts. Where I show that Y DNA R1b1a2 M269(almost all R1b1a2a L23 and in west Europe under that R1b1a2a1a L11) in Europe probably arrived at the earliest just 8,000 years ago from the middle east in the early Neolithic. That R1b1a2a1a L11(my haplogroup) spread in west Europe mainly in the bronze age with Indo European Germanic's, Celts, and Italic's. R1a1a1 M417 is another haplogroup that was probably spread with Indo Europeans. R1a1a1b1 Z283 for Corded ware culture and proto Balto Slavs, R1a1a1a1b2 Z93 spread in Asia with Indo Iranian and Tocharian languages, R1a1a1a1 L664 may have partly spread with R1a1a1b2 Z283 or R1b1a2a1a L11.
Just 8,000 years ago R1b was probably exclusive to the middle east and possibly in Africa as R1b V88, R1a was probably somewhere in Europe, and R2 around where it is today in south Asia. Y DNA R I think definitely existed in at least some early west Eurasian aka Caucasians 30,000 years ago which is kind of around Mal'ta's time. Since R shares the same father subclade P with Y DNA Q. Also that Y DNA P is brother clade to NO(north Asian and east Asian), P(Oceania), and S(Oceania). It would make sense to me R also originally was pretty far east and did not originate in West Eurasian aka Caucasian people. Or it was brought as P then developed as R in west Eurasians.
The last thing I want to say is it is important that Ancient Eurasian DNA says Mal'ta boy had dark BROWN hair. Which according to Wikpedia(brown hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair)). Is
common among populations in West Eurasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia) and North Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa), especially among those from Central Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe), Southern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe) and West Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia), where it transitions smoothly into blackish-brown and black hair. Brown hair is common among Australian Aborigines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aborigines) and Melanesians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair#cite_note-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair#cite_note-5)
I don't know if pretty much the rest of the world is all black haired. Brown hair is very popular in west Eurasians aka Caucasians(Europeans, north Africans, and middle easterns). This is evidence of true west Eurasian ancestry in also Mal'ta hair color not just autosomal DNA and mtDNA. I have said before that brown hair has probably existed in West Eurasians ancestors for over 60,000 years.
How I think 24,000 year old Siberian Mal'ta boy may have looked. Based on his K=9 autosomal DNA results and hair, eye, and skin color.
On October 18 and 19 there was some info released from the Paleoamerican Odyssey conference (http://paleoamericanodyssey.com/abstracts.html)(see here (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/paleoamericanodyssey-tweets-on-24000.html) and here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/10/surprising-adna-results-from.html)). Of a 24,000-year-old Siberian from the Mal'ta archaeological site, near Lake Baika. It was said he had Y DNA R, mtDNA U, mixed west Eurasian and native American like ancestry with no east Asian like ancestry, and much darker pigmented than Otzi (https://www.google.com/#q=otzi+the+iceman). Otzi was a early copper age farmer (about 5,300 years old) from the alps. He had brown hair, brown eyes, and fair skin. Ancient Eurasian DNA (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) says Mal'ta had dark brown hair, brown eyes, and dark skin. Now there is a paper on Mal'ta's genome in Nature. I have found four blogs which explain the results. From Euogenes (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/11/first-genome-of-upper-paleolithic-human.html?showComment=1385050614153#c589944786800 642566), Dienekes (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-upper-paleolithic-lake.html), Discover (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/11/long-first-age-mankind/#.Uo0eOcSkrIU), and Anthropogenesis (http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-malta-and-afontova-gora-a-full-account/). Please read the blogs and make your own conclusions. I don't understand the science of anything they are saying and I am not including everything they say either.
The original paper in its abstract argues that these very mixed partly west Eurasian Palaeolithic Siberians mixed with Native Americans ancestors.
The MA-1 mitochondrial genome belongs to haplogroup U, which has also been found at high frequency among Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and the Y chromosome of MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and near the root of most Native American lineages5. Similarly, we find autosomal evidence that MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and genetically closely related to modern-day Native Americans, with no close affinity to east Asians. This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought. Furthermore, we estimate that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population. This is likely to have occurred after the divergence of Native American ancestors from east Asian ancestors, but before the diversification of Native American populations in the New World. Gene flow from the MA-1 lineage into Native American ancestors could explain why several crania from the First Americans have been reported as bearing morphological characteristics that do not resemble those of east Asians. Sequencing of another south-central Siberian, Afontova Gora-2 dating to approximately 17,000 years ago14, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as MA-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum. Our findings reveal that western Eurasian genetic signatures in modern-day Native Americans derive not only from post- Columbian admixture, as commonly thought, but also from a mixed ancestry of the First Americans.
Euogenes and Anthropogensis show a bar graph from the K=9 (nine ancestral populations assumed) ADMIXTURE analysis with Mal'ta and modern populations(click here) (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2810/hhx4.png). Mal'ta seems to be mixed European(34%), south Asian(37%), Native American(16% or more), Oceania(0.4%), and possibly a little Siberian or Na Dene like ancestry. In the Euogenes blog I have a few posts my name is barakobama. Please don't trust my conclusion trust more of what the author Davidski says on the Siberian or Na Dene like ancestry. The reason I say European not just west Eurasian aka Caucasian. Is Because Mal'ta had 34% dark blue which seems very European in modern people. And connected to what has been called North European by Davidski in K=8(click here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/so-whos-most-european-of-us-all.html)), north European in globe13 and Atlantic Baltic in globe4(click here (http://dodecad.blogspot.com/)), north European in K12b and Atlantic Baltic in K7b(click here (http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2012/01/k12b-and-k7b-calculators.html)). While the light blue seems connected to all other west Eurasian groups and Mal'ta had 0%.
Autosomal DNA from Mesolithic and Neolithic European hunter gatherers. Show they were dominated by this north European like ancestry(click here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-on-east-baltic-as-refuge-for.html)). I wish I understood the science behind all of this I just try to understand what experts say. It seems though this is the case that Mal'ta had 34% ancestry from probably Europeans who lived over 24,000 years ago.
Mal'ta also very importantly had 37% green. Which seems very connected to what is called south Asian in globe13, K7b, K12b. So he had even more south Asian like ancestry. The 16% orange I would assume is some type of Native American like ancestry. The 4% green seems like Oceania like ancestry, and 1% pink may be some type of Na Dene or Siberian like ancestry. I don't understand the science behind all of this. Who knows how many complicated explanations there is for all of this.
the original paper says abstract says.
Afontova Gora-2 dating to approximately 17,000 years ago14, revealed similar autosomal genetic signatures as MA-1, suggesting that the region was continuously occupied by humans throughout the Last Glacial Maximum
Meaning that Mal'ta was not a result of recent mixing but from a population of muts that lived in LGM (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLast_Gl acial_Maximum&ei=lFGOUtn0BMTiyAG094CoBw&usg=AFQjCNFYWAkE2mEs4S5Yt7CHeJ0SqCoPMw&sig2=pE7VE9y6CFgEKMl4XC47Aw&bvm=bv.56988011,d.aWc) Siberia.
Mal'ta boy's mtDNA haplogroup was U and German Deziebel shows in Anthropogenesis (http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/2013/11/ancient-dna-from-malta-and-afontova-gora-a-full-account/) that Mal'ta was apart of a now extinct U lineage. Not apart of any known subclades. 33,250 year old U2 was found in Kostenki, Russia, two 31,155 year old pre U5's(had two of 5 defining U5 mutations) and one U8 in Dolni Vestonice Czech republic(Ancient Eurasian DNA (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml)). All of the U found in Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter gathers were in a different lineage than Mal'ta's U possibly separated more than 50,000 years ago.
Mal'ta boy had Y DNA R his results can help figure out more about the confusing origin and spread of y DNA R. You can see in many of those blogs I(barakobama) bark at people for assuming his Y DNA R is from west Eurasia based on its modern distribution. You can see in many of my past threads and posts. Where I show that Y DNA R1b1a2 M269(almost all R1b1a2a L23 and in west Europe under that R1b1a2a1a L11) in Europe probably arrived at the earliest just 8,000 years ago from the middle east in the early Neolithic. That R1b1a2a1a L11(my haplogroup) spread in west Europe mainly in the bronze age with Indo European Germanic's, Celts, and Italic's. R1a1a1 M417 is another haplogroup that was probably spread with Indo Europeans. R1a1a1b1 Z283 for Corded ware culture and proto Balto Slavs, R1a1a1a1b2 Z93 spread in Asia with Indo Iranian and Tocharian languages, R1a1a1a1 L664 may have partly spread with R1a1a1b2 Z283 or R1b1a2a1a L11.
Just 8,000 years ago R1b was probably exclusive to the middle east and possibly in Africa as R1b V88, R1a was probably somewhere in Europe, and R2 around where it is today in south Asia. Y DNA R I think definitely existed in at least some early west Eurasian aka Caucasians 30,000 years ago which is kind of around Mal'ta's time. Since R shares the same father subclade P with Y DNA Q. Also that Y DNA P is brother clade to NO(north Asian and east Asian), P(Oceania), and S(Oceania). It would make sense to me R also originally was pretty far east and did not originate in West Eurasian aka Caucasian people. Or it was brought as P then developed as R in west Eurasians.
The last thing I want to say is it is important that Ancient Eurasian DNA says Mal'ta boy had dark BROWN hair. Which according to Wikpedia(brown hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair)). Is
common among populations in West Eurasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia) and North Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa), especially among those from Central Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe), Southern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe) and West Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia), where it transitions smoothly into blackish-brown and black hair. Brown hair is common among Australian Aborigines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aborigines) and Melanesians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanesians).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair#cite_note-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_hair#cite_note-5)
I don't know if pretty much the rest of the world is all black haired. Brown hair is very popular in west Eurasians aka Caucasians(Europeans, north Africans, and middle easterns). This is evidence of true west Eurasian ancestry in also Mal'ta hair color not just autosomal DNA and mtDNA. I have said before that brown hair has probably existed in West Eurasians ancestors for over 60,000 years.