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Loki
11-21-2013, 06:38 PM
Does doing yoga make you a Hindu?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71239000/jpg/_71239756_isqowe06.jpg

For many people, the main concern in a yoga class is whether they are breathing correctly or their legs are aligned. But for others, there are lingering doubts about whether they should be there at all, or whether they are betraying their religion.

Farida Hamza, a Muslim woman living in the US (pictured above), had been doing yoga for two or three years when she decided she wanted to teach it.

"When I told my family and a few friends, they did not react positively," she recalls. "They were very confused as to why I wanted to do it - that it might be going against Islam."

Their suspicions about yoga are shared by many Muslims, Christians and Jews around the world and relate to yoga's history as an ancient spiritual practice with connections to Hinduism and Buddhism.

So is yoga fundamentally a religious activity?

"Yoga is such a broad term - that's what causes a difficulty," says Rebecca Ffrench, the co-founder YogaLondon - a yoga teacher academy - and the philosophy tutor at the school.

There are different forms of yoga, she says, some of which are more overtly religious than others. Hare Krishna monks, for example, are adherents of bhakti yoga, the yoga of devotion. What most people in the West think of as yoga is properly known as hatha yoga - a path towards enlightenment that focuses on building physical and mental strength.

But what "enlightenment" means also depends on tradition. For some Hindus it is liberation from the cycle of reincarnation, but for many yoga practitioners it is a point where you achieve stillness in your mind, or understand the true nature of the world and your place in it.

Whether that is compatible with Christianity, Islam and other religions is debatable.

To those in the know, for example, the yogic asanas, or positions, retain elements of their earlier spiritual meanings - the Surya namaskar is a series of positions designed to greet Surya, the Hindu Sun God.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71227000/jpg/_71227859_surya_namaskar.jpg
The Surya Namaskar or Sun Saltutations

"It's got a trace from history of a religious pathway," says Ffrench. "However, is something religious if you don't have the intention there? If I was to kneel down does that mean I'm praying - or am I just kneeling?"

This was what Farida Hamza anxiously asked herself while she was doing her yoga training, which was held in a Hindu temple.

"I felt very guilty but in the end, I had to trust that Allah understood my intentions," she wrote on her blog. "I let them know I did not want to take part in any rituals and they were so respectful of how I felt."

Yoga classes vary. While some feature the chanting of Hindu sutras, others will make vaguer references to a "life force" or "cosmic energy". A session might end with a greeting of "namaste" and a gesture of prayer. There will probably be a moment for meditation, at which point participants may be encouraged to repeat the sacred word "Om", which Buddhists and Hindus regard as a primordial sound which brought the universe into being.

But other classes may make no overt reference to spirituality at all.

That's the way things are in Iran, where yoga is very popular. It has managed to flourish in a country with Sharia law and an Islamist political system, by divesting itself of anything that could be construed as blasphemy. Yoga teachers are careful to always refer to "the sport of yoga" and are accredited by the Yoga Federation, which operates in the same way as a tennis or football organisation.

Classes tend to be slower than in the West with much discussion about the physical benefits of each position. As with other sports, yoga competitions are held, judged by specially invited international yoga teachers.

Similar prohibitions on spiritual yoga exist in Malaysia, where a 2008 fatwa - a religious ruling - resulted in a yoga ban in five states. In the capital Kuala Lumpur, the physical activity is permitted but chanting and meditation are forbidden. Clerics in the world's most populous Islamic nation - Indonesia - make a similar distinction.

Yoga has been repackaged in the US as well.

Children at nine primary schools in Encinitas, California, take part in classes twice a week based on a style of yoga called ashtanga yoga. After some parents complained - US schools, like Indian ones, are secular - the Sanskrit names for the postures were replaced with standard English names and some special child-friendly ones, such as "kangaroo" "surfer" and "washing machine". The lotus position has been rebranded "criss-cross apple sauce", the Surya namaskar has become the "opening sequence" and the organisers insist that it is all just a form of physical exercise.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71239000/jpg/_71239761_hi018515824.jpg

Some parents remained unconvinced though, and a Christian organisation, the National Center for Law & Policy (NCLP) took up their case. In September this year, the San Diego County Superior Court ruled that although yoga's roots are religious, the modified form of the practice is fine to teach in schools.

The NCLP is appealing. Dean Broyles, the organisation's president and chief counsel sees movements like the Surya namaskar, regardless of what they're called, as "deeply symbolic rituals that express and instil religion through repetition".

The reason many people in the West think yoga is non-religious, Broyles says, is that it falls into a theological blind-spot. "Whereas Protestant Christianity focuses on words and beliefs, ashtanga yoga's focus is practice and experience," he says. Religious intentions may not be there to begin with but practising yoga might lead them to develop.

To an extent, this point of view is endorsed by Hindus themselves. The Hindu American Foundation recently ran a campaign called "Take Back Yoga". Sheetal Shah, from the organisation, says someone raised in an "exclusivist" tradition like Islam or Christianity who becomes very interested in yoga may eventually experience some conflict with their religious beliefs.

So, for American Christians who don't like the idea of yoga, there are alternatives, including PraiseMoves.

This exercise regime combines Christian worship with stretching exercises. As the class adopts a posture, they recite a verse from the Bible. In this way, bhujangasana or the cobra pose becomes the vine posture, with a corresponding verse from John 15:5. "I am the vine and you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."

"The word yoga is a Sanskrit word that means 'union with god' or 'yoke'," says Laurette Willis, the founder of PraiseMoves. "And as a Christian, it's a different yoke - Jesus said: 'My yoke is easy, my burden is light.'"

For someone who has set about drawing people away from yoga, Willis couldn't have a clearer idea of the opposition's terrain. Her mother was a yoga teacher and she started doing it when she was seven, often acting as a demonstration model for the class. She did yoga for 22 years, eventually becoming a teacher herself.

But she says that on 25 February, 2001, at 10:35 in the morning, while she was working out to a video tape, God gave her the idea for PraiseMoves. She sees it as a process of redeeming or "buying back" yogic postures for God. Just as a musical scale can be used to make good or bad music, so the repertoire of positions in yoga can be put to Christian use.

Despite the similarities between PraiseMoves and a yoga class, Willis says she wants her classes to ruminate, not meditate.

"People leave yoga classes saying 'I feel so good. I feel so tranquil.' Well I believe that tranquillity is not peace - the peace that God gives - but it's almost a numbness.

"You've been told the whole time to 'Empty your mind! Empty your mind!' And what we do instead is fill your mind with the word of God."

But for some Muslims, Christians and Jews, yoga is attractive precisely because it supplies a mysticism they feel is lacking in their own religion.

Estelle Eugene co-runs the Jewish Yoga Network and for 20 years has taught yoga to Jewish and non-Jewish people in London.

"I've found with general Judaism here that it's difficult to find a spiritual side that I relate to," she says. "So the yoga helps me to do that. And it enhances my respect and understanding of Jewish practices that I hadn't fully understood previously."

She says she makes small adjustments to yoga where she feels there is a conflict with Judaism. She never attends or holds a class on the holy day, Saturday, and she prefers classes without the chanting of mantras.

Eugene recently ran a Day of Jewish Yoga, which explored ways of combining yoga with Judaism. One of the sessions combined yoga with practices to help participants reach kavanah, the meditative mind-set seen as an essential for Jewish prayer and rituals.

On her website, a testimonial from Rabbi David Rosen, the former chief rabbi of Ireland, says yoga offers "much blessing and enlightenment" and arguably helps "recapture Jewish wisdom and practice which may have been lost".

An Iranian yoga teacher - who wishes to remain anonymous - told the BBC that her religious students sometimes report that they pray with more concentration after practising yoga. "They say when we go to Mecca, we feel we are able to make a deeper pilgrimage because of the yoga," she says. "Our minds and our bodies move closer to our faith."

This is not as contradictory as it might seem, according to Rebecca Ffrench.

"Something that is interesting about yoga is that whilst it is spiritual, it doesn't stipulate a specific religion," she says. "Even in the devotional forms of yoga, it says you can use any object of devotion you like, be it Ganesh, Krishna, Jesus or Allah."

She adds that atheists can also perform yoga - they can fix their attention on the "wonder of the universe" or perhaps the complexity of the DNA helix.

Farida Hamza, meanwhile, is convinced that yoga and Islam are not only compatible, but overlap significantly. The ethical precepts of yoga - captured in the principles of yama and niyama - share many essentials with the five pillars of Islam, she argues.

"Each pillar that we follow in Islam, or the duty that we have to do, is sort of existent in yoga. Simple things like - you give alms to the poor. Well, a yogi is supposed to do service. You have to be honest, you have to be non-violent - all of these are in Islam and in yoga.

"The way we pray as Muslims, each pose that we do is a yoga pose," she adds. "So Muslims that hate yoga are probably doing yoga without realising it." Muslims even join their middle finger and thumb together during prayer, similar to a yoga mudra, she says, though she doesn't believe Islam came from yoga or was influenced by it.

Born in India but raised in Oman, Hamza sees her path towards yoga as part of a plan drawn up by Allah. "I am grateful for the joy I felt when my hamstrings opened," she says. "And my big toe stretch, or the first time I did a standing bow - it took me two years to do a standing bow.

"But I did it and that is Allah's grace - he blessed me with that."

arcticwolf
07-14-2014, 12:57 AM
I don't think so. lol

Dombra
07-14-2014, 03:07 PM
I don't think so. lol

First yoga, then Hindu, and lastly rapist :laugh:

Virtuous
07-14-2014, 03:11 PM
Just like practising meditation makes you a buddhist.

Óttar
07-14-2014, 09:29 PM
Not per se, no.

Mraz
07-14-2014, 10:01 PM
No, but it makes you a lesbian or a sissy :rolleyes:

Siberian Cold Breeze
07-14-2014, 10:24 PM
The Surya Namaskar ?
hmm.....:icon_ask:



namaskar ( Indian)- > namaz (Persian)
Probably have same roots btw ..

Manifest Destiny
07-14-2014, 10:33 PM
Does eating Chinese food make you Chinese?

Fortis in Arduis
07-15-2014, 11:01 AM
Transnational Anglophone yoga is not such an ancient tradition than it is a fusion of ancient posture practise influenced by the physical culture movements of the Indian YMCA and the Western gymnastics expertise of Danish and Swedish gymnasts Niels and Ling respectively.

It has, at times, been packaged as Hindu in tradition, and it was developed by male Brahmins. Certainly, hatha yoga was an established, if heretical and poorly regarded Hindu tradition. It was associated with opium and cannabis consumption, and feared bands of outlaws. Somehow, in the 20th Century, hatha yoga was developed, brought up to date, with the influence of Western physical culture, and repackaged with special attention given to ensuring that it was understood to be an ancient indigenous tradition, with a Sanksrit glossary of terms. There has certainly been an ancient tradition, but what is taught today was developed in the spirit of Lamarckian eugenics and 20th Century physical culture movement of the type that were becoming popular in Western Europe.

Nevertheless, the ancient postures are present in today's forms, and some of the ethos is there. Hatha yoga prepares the body for meditation, and it is a meditation in itself. That said, it does not make one a Hindu. Hatha yoga teachers teach posture practise. If they start to teach something else, they deviate from being just hatha yoga teachers. My teacher taught posture practise, and made it clear that one's religious leanings were a separate matter.

If anything, the religiose trappings were included to instill pride in practicioners (who were intended to be Indian and Hindu), to make this newly-developed form of hatha yoga distinctively Indian and Hindu, and to allow this nationalist man-building project to slip under the noses of the British.

This PR stunt has worked so well that now, concerned persons with non-Hindu backgrounds are worried that they might be corrupted, whereas before, Hindu yogis might be careful to avoid hatha yoga, concerned that its focus on the body was unspiritual, that it was heretical, and that practicioners had a bad reputation for being lawless, dangerous and associated with the ritual pollution of living outside caste restrictions, and cannabis and opium consumption.

silver_surfer
07-15-2014, 12:23 PM
yoga is just doing stretches, basically. The type of Yoga being being practiced in Western society is already far removed from its religious roots in any case, unattached from the actually spiritual aspect and is usually just emphasizing peace of mind and self-control.

Fortis in Arduis
07-15-2014, 01:39 PM
yoga is just doing stretches, basically. The type of Yoga being being practiced in Western society is already far removed from its religious roots in any case, unattached from the actually spiritual aspect and is usually just emphasizing peace of mind and self-control.

Transnational Anglophone yoga (the best term I have heard to describe the hatha yoga movements in Western society) seems to be a form of gymnastics influenced by some ancient practises from the Vedic times. Certainly, it was developed and promoted by enthusiastic Hindus.

Go back seventy years, and both you and I might not have been permitted to learn these forms as they were being developed in India. At first, Westerner men were admitted as students in the 1950s, then Westerner women in the 1970s.

We have to pay homage to T. Krishnamacharya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Tirumalai_Krishnamacharya) for his work which produced the two most popular systems of hatha yoga in the West, B.K.S. Iyengar's Iyengar Yoga and Pattabhi Jois' Asthanga Vinyasa Yoga.

This excerpt might be of interest:


The Yoga Korunta is a purported ancient text on yoga, transmitted by oral tradition to Tirumalai Krishnamacharya by his teacher Ramamohana Brahmachari in the early 20th century, and further to Sri K. Pattabhi Jois beginning in 1927, who then used it as the basis of his system of Ashtanga Yoga introduced in 1948.

The existence or historicity of this oral transmission cannot be verified, and the text itself has not been preserved. It is said to have been made up of stanzas using rhymed, metered sutras, in the manner common to texts transmitted orally in the guru-shishya tradition.

The text is said to have described several lists of many different asana groupings, as well as highly original teachings on vinyasa, drishti, bandhas, mudras and general teachings.

The name Yoga Korunta is the Tamilized pronunciation of the Sanskrit words Yoga grantha, meaning "book about yoga".

Ashtanga series is said to have its origin in an ancient text called the Yoga Korunta, compiled by Vamana Rishi, which Krishnamacharya received from his Guru Rama Mohan Brahmachari at Mount Kailash in the early 20th century. The story of the Yoga Korunta though finds no evidence in any historical research on the subject. It seems that no text with this name has ever been written. In addition, there is evidence that the Ashtanga Yoga series incorporates exercises used by Indian wrestlers and British gymnastics. Recent academic research details documentary evidence that physical journals in the early 20th century were full of the postural shapes that were very similar to Krishnamacharya's asana system. In particular, the flowing surya namaskar which later became the basis of Krishnamacharya's Mysore style, was not yet considered part of yogasana.

Krishnamacharya has had considerable influence on many of the modern forms of yoga taught today. Among his students were many notable teachers of the later 20th century, such as K. Pattabhi Jois, B.K.S. Iyengar, Indra Devi, and Krishnamacharya's son T.K.V. Desikachar. Krishnamacharya was well known for tailoring his teachings to address specific concerns of the person or group he was teaching, and a vinyasa series for adolescents is a result of this. When working under the convalescing Maharaja of Mysore, Krishnamacharya set up a shala, or yoga school in the palace grounds and adapted the practice outlined in the Yoga Korunta for the young boys who lived there. Ashtanga Yoga has since been thought of as a physically demanding practice, which can be successful at channeling the hyperactivity of young minds. This system can also be used as a vessel for helping calm ongoing chatter of the mind, reducing stress and teaching extroverted personalities to redirect their attention to their internal experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_vinyasa_yoga#History_and_legend

I do not believe that the Yoga Korunta ever existed outside an elaborate public relations / cultural propaganda campaign. Hatha yoga students from Mysore went touring around India giving demonstrations to encourage the development of an Indian physical culture. There have even been suggestions that the developments in Mysore were influenced by observation of the training techniques of the British Army in Mysore. It is possible.

Reading that surya namaskara (meaning "salutations to the sun") has caused religious consternation on the basis that it might be a form of sun worship is quite ridiculous, considering that it was never even part of traditional yogasana, and probably came from the training techniques of Indian wrestlers. Surya namaskara is a warm-up exercise which has the benefits of press-ups and sit-ups, and is recommended for developing upper body strength.

Where and how does hatha yoga become religious or spiritual in Indian culture? The most I could gather was that there were bands of travelling hatha yogis in India, who were regarded as heretical, dangerous and not very respectable.

I have to take slight issue with your statement that hatha yoga in the West is just stretching. Stretching is involved, but take a look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0

I find it most inspiring.

Loki
07-15-2014, 02:12 PM
No, but it makes you a lesbian or a sissy :rolleyes:

I disagree. Yoga is very good, and for all genders, ages and abilities. It is fantastic.

Vasconcelos
07-15-2014, 02:30 PM
I think it does, I've heard people grow a red spot on their foreheads after doing a single yoga class, not to mention an awesome sun tan. I avoid it like the plague, don't want people to think I'm from Goa.

Loki
07-15-2014, 02:58 PM
It is uninspiring to hear that yoga is a modern invention. I don't want to believe it. Yoga is a complete body, mind and spirit system that really made me feel awesome when doing it. It felt like I was part of something ancient. For this reason, I much prefer yoga over pilates.

Mraz
07-15-2014, 04:29 PM
I disagree. Yoga is very good, and for all genders, ages and abilities. It is fantastic.

You can disagree, I keep to my prejudice :P

Fortis in Arduis
07-15-2014, 05:20 PM
It is uninspiring to hear that yoga is a modern invention. I don't want to believe it. Yoga is a complete body, mind and spirit system that really made me feel awesome when doing it. It felt like I was part of something ancient. For this reason, I much prefer yoga over pilates.

It has ancient roots. The Hatha Yoga Pradipika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_Yoga_Pradipika) was written in the 15th Century, but draws upon older texts, reputedly. The point is that the modern forms were developed under particular cultural pressures, similar in nature and effect to those that produced the physical culture movements that were happening at the same time in Europe. Teachers were sharing their ideas and expertise. The Indian YMCA disseminated Western gymnastic techniques.

In the UK, there was the Women's League of Health and Beauty, and their sequence of exercises, set to music; in fact, they are still going, under a different name. When hatha yoga reached the UK, it slotted perfectly into that niche, with the result that hatha yoga is very popular with women.

Orthopraxy (the idea that there is a correct form that one should follow) is very contentious in hatha yoga circles. On one hand, there is a desperation to prove unbroken lineage with ancient Vedic times, on the other, hatha yoga is still being researched and the various yoga schools change their sequences, even shortening them to fit into hour-long slots to make them more marketable. In fact, it is the recent developments that have brought hatha yoga out of obscurity, and incredible lifelong gymnastic health and fitness for men and women going into their eighties.

One good authority, and one that served me well, was the five-year course in the back of B.K.S. Iyengar's "Light on Yoga"; one that I followed at home for three years, attending class at least once a week, and reached a wonderfully advanced stage of practise. Each time I got on the mat, I would be seeing how far I could take it, and once having achieved a certain level, I was excitedly writing the next sequence out on a sheet of paper.

Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga, being slightly different, is a set sequence to learn like an alphabet, which, when completed or mastered, is replaced by another more advanced series. Also, each movement is synchronised with the breath, which many people find incredibly energising. The practicioner follows the set sequence at his own pace. He might take two hours, or an hour and fifteen minutes.

Bikram (hot room) Yoga has to be the most commercialised yoga school I have ever encountered, but it still has tangible benefits, and why should Westerners not prefer a hatha yoga system that has been Westernised and fits with our lifestyles and body-problems, such as slow digestion? I found Bikram really obnoxious and McDonalds, reaching the advanced series within a month, but it was very challenging and most refreshing.

Hatha yoga enthused me to learn about ayurveda and to find a good meditation teacher. Hatha yogis should really watch their diet, keeping it sattvic and pure, and have knowledge of ayurveda, so to deal with any health problems that might emerge.

Moving on to Pilates, I think that it is incredibly hard. Even the basic classes are very hard. It seems to be very helpful to the elderly and unfit desirous of some restoration, but if young and able, why not start aiming for the gymnastic dizzy heights that can be achieved via advanced hatha yoga? One does not even have to be young to find abilities emerging that were hitherto unimaginable. The sequences are designed for personal development, rather than performance competition, and so they guide the practicioner in acheiving their potential in the most efficient way possible, whereas ballet, or training for sports loses its efficiency, because of the emphasis on competition and/or performance; perhaps too much a labour of love for those who enjoy such but find that they burn out at forty.

Loki
07-15-2014, 05:42 PM
You can disagree, I keep to my prejudice :P

Don't knock what you haven't tried!

Mraz
07-15-2014, 05:51 PM
Don't knock what you haven't tried!

If I start yoga that would mean I've turned homo :P

Mraz
07-15-2014, 05:57 PM
It seems some people are butthurt because I tell my opinion about this unmanly activity :cool:
You guys shouldn't forget to bring your leather chaps and some mojitos to you next yoga session.

Isleño
07-15-2014, 06:15 PM
IMHO, it depends on the purpose and if the religious and cultural elements are in place. In much of the west, yoga has been rebranded as something non-religious and even non cultural, as the article mentions. So to me, it depends. Also, region can influence whether or not it will have the religious or cultural elements in place, or if the populations traditionally perceive yoga as such a practice tied to religion or it's cultural elements.

Where I live, in the U.S., yoga is not tied to religion or culture and has been westernized. As the article mentions, in the west it has taken on a different reputation and even involves westernized renaming practices, thus giving yoga an American domestic feel, that can even become part of a familiar American subculture involving a healthy lifestyle. Actually to some it may sound a bit funny, but in the U.S., it is usually tied to a non-religious practice frequently viewed as part of this healthy lifestyle. And in some cases, to the westcoast of the U.S. and it's reputation of being home to many that practice a healthy organic lifestyle. It can even be tied to a certain class of people that take part in it, such as the more educated middle classes and upper classes. In the United States, you wouldn't really picture a construction worker engaging in yoga classes :)

Loki
07-15-2014, 08:31 PM
If I start yoga that would mean I've turned homo :P

:rolleyes:

I'm definitely not homo. Yoga is the perfect compliment to a gym routine. It tones your muscles and makes you fit.

You're just saying that because you're a fucking Muslim.

Loki
07-15-2014, 08:36 PM
Where I live, in the U.S., yoga is not tied to religion or culture and has been westernized. As the article mentions, in the west it has taken on a different reputation and even involves westernized renaming practices, thus giving yoga an American domestic feel, that can even become part of a familiar American subculture involving a healthy lifestyle.

This is no good. You lose a lot of the spiritual benefits with it. You might as well do pilates.

Mraz
07-15-2014, 08:38 PM
:rolleyes:

I'm definitely not homo. Yoga is the perfect compliment to a gym routine. It tones your muscles and makes you fit.

You're just saying that because you're a fucking Muslim.

I say this because I'm 100% straight ;)

Vasconcelos
07-15-2014, 08:41 PM
I say this because I'm 100% straight ;)

Bear Grylls does yoga. Just saying.

Mraz
07-15-2014, 08:43 PM
Bear Grylls does yoga. Just saying.

Closet homo I guess :D

Lusos
07-15-2014, 08:46 PM
I practice Meditation.
Does that make me a Buddhist ?

Kiyant
07-15-2014, 08:48 PM
:rolleyes:

I'm definitely not homo. Yoga is the perfect compliment to a gym routine. It tones your muscles and makes you fit.

You're just saying that because you're a fucking Muslim.
Thanks i guess

Lusos
07-15-2014, 08:48 PM
If I start yoga that would mean I've turned homo :P

No.But If you start taking/giving up the arse.....

I think that's the only thing that would make you Homo.

Kiyant
07-15-2014, 08:49 PM
No.But If you start taking/giving up the arse.....

I think that's the only thing that would make you Homo.

This

Dandelion
07-15-2014, 08:54 PM
Yoga instructors stereotypically get close to all the hot women. ;)

Dandelion
07-15-2014, 08:55 PM
This

You are from the nation of yağlı güreş. Neither a homo sport, despite Western prejudice.

Kiyant
07-15-2014, 08:55 PM
Yoga instructors stereotypically get close to all the hot women. ;)

Two words: Yoga pants

Kiyant
07-15-2014, 08:56 PM
You are from the nation of yağlı güreş. Neither a homo sport, despite Western prejudice.

Where im from we dont have yagli güres but thank you that you can appreciate its sport aspect

Mraz
07-15-2014, 09:02 PM
No.But If you start taking/giving up the arse.....

I think that's the only thing that would make you Homo.


This is my deep conviction and I'm never wrong :cool:

Loki
07-15-2014, 09:08 PM
This is my deep conviction and I'm never wrong :cool:

Being a Mudslime is far more gay than doing yoga.

Kiyant
07-15-2014, 09:09 PM
Being a Mudslime is far more gay than doing yoga.

Im not gay (not like its bad to be gay)

arcticwolf
07-15-2014, 10:39 PM
I disagree. Yoga is very good, and for all genders, ages and abilities. It is fantastic.

Boss, I agree with you, except for one negative aspect in some of the exercises. Some of the exercises take a particular joint beyond its natural ROM=Range Of Motion, that's a huge no, no if you want strong stable joint like you would if you strength train, and should want for health reasons even if you don't. Stretching a joint beyond its ROM renders the joint, loose, weak, and unstable. Other than that, I don't see any harm practicing Yoga.

Yoga the spiritual system is a different story as far as I know.

arcticwolf
07-15-2014, 10:42 PM
I practice Meditation.
Does that make me a Buddhist ?

That would depend what kind of meditation you do.

Svipdag
07-15-2014, 10:50 PM
What is referred to as "yoga" in the West is nothing but a set of exercises intended to prepare the body for REAL yoga which is meditation. Usually called hatha yoga, it is NOT really yoga, in that the objective of yoga, self-realisation, cannot be achieved through it.

The objective of real yoga is samadhi , often considered to be union with Brahman, but more accurately, total realisation of one's identity with Brahman. There are many ways of achieving this realisation, such as bhakti yoga, in which the object of meditation is a god and samadhi is achieved through total devotion to that god. Jnana yoga, on the other hand, is intellectual , involving the rejection of everything which is NOT Brahman. Its principle is stated as "Neti, neti" (= "not this, not this") These are but two approaches to self-realisation. None of them involves, e.g. standing on one's head. Hatha yoga is just a warm-up.

DeaththeKid
07-15-2014, 10:54 PM
If you just do the physical exercises then no but if you believe in the philosophy and mysticism behind it then yes.

Svipdag
07-15-2014, 11:03 PM
Merely believing in the philosophy behind the practises of hatha yoga does not constitute yoga either. It is necessary to practise meditation with the objective of achieving samadhi which constitutes real Yoga. This kind of meditatioin is a Hindu practise

arcticwolf
07-15-2014, 11:05 PM
What is referred to as "yoga" in the West is nothing but a set of exercises intended to prepare the body for REAL yoga which is meditation. Usually called hatha yoga, it is NOT really yoga, in that the objective of yoga, self-realisation, cannot be achieved through it.

The objective of real yoga is samadhi , often considered to be union with Brahman, but more accurately, total realisation of one's identity with Brahman. There are many ways of achieving this realisation, such as bhakti yoga, in which the object of meditation is a god and samadhi is achieved through total devotion to that god. Jnana yoga, on the other hand, is intellectual , involving the rejection of everything which is NOT Brahman. Its principle is stated as "Neti, neti" (= "not this, not this") These are but two approaches to self-realisation. None of them involves, e.g. standing on one's head. Hatha yoga is just a warm-up.

Samadhi aka tranquility meditation is also one of the two Buddhist forms of meditation, its goal is to develop concentration/focus of the mind, though the heart of Buddhism is vipassana. Many spiritual paths have a version of samadhi meditation, vipassana aka insight meditation is exclusively Buddhist.

Fortis in Arduis
07-15-2014, 11:22 PM
It seems some people are butthurt because I tell my opinion about this unmanly activity
You guys shouldn't forget to bring your leather chaps and some mojitos to you next yoga session.

In its early years, transnational Anglophone hatha yoga was developed and practised solely by men, and they were nearly all Brahmins of a particular sub-caste. Stretching (which is a large component of contemporary posture practise) is seen as unmanly simply because women are naturally more flexible, and so women dominate in numbers, because, superficially, it is easier for them. This is a particularly Western phenomenon, yet at the top levels, men are found in more equal numbers, if they are not, in fact, more numerous than women. In the land of its origin, India, women might be more inclined to learn the art of dance, rather than the science of hatha yoga.

There are many brilliant advanced female practicioners, but it would a sad day for Western man if such strength, grace and poise were to be forever regarded as unmanly, when men are the best practicioners, pioneers and proponents of this empowering discipline. Hatha yoga's demand for the physical flexibility that comes more easily to women, lends itself all too well to gender-role stereotyping.

However, your trolling is most pertinent, and desperately needs to be busted wide open because, right now, Europe needs a generation of men with strength, focus and resolve. No man should feel excluded from practising hatha yoga, when hatha yoga's modern development stands on the shoulders of great patriotic men who sought to empower and embolden their nation's manhood.

The Indian hatha yoga revival was a successful nationalist man-building project, inseparable from the development of Hindu nationalism. Do not forget that India was once dominated by two sets of degenerate and parasitical Abrahamics, and that Hindu nationalism was the catalyst that busted them both. Europe may yet undergo a similar revival.

Svipdag
07-15-2014, 11:42 PM
Boss, I agree with you, except for one negative aspect in some of the exercises. Some of the exercises take a particular joint beyond its natural ROM=Range Of Motion, that's a huge no, no if you want strong stable joint like you would if you strength train, and should want for health reasons even if you don't. Stretching a joint beyond its ROM renders the joint, loose, weak, and unstable. Other than that, I don't see any harm practicing Yoga.

Yoga the spiritual system is a different story as far as I know.

Very much so, but you have made a valuable point. "No pain, no gain" is a pernicious LIE ! Pain is always a sign that SOMETHING IS WRONG. Muscles and joints which hurt during exercise are being DAMAGED. My position is that "Pain is no gain."

Some trainers claim that "musclebound" is meaningless. I'd love to see one of these stiff over-muscled bodybuilders dance ! I'm sure that an elephant would be much more graceful.

Fortis in Arduis
07-16-2014, 02:09 AM
Very much so, but you have made a valuable point. "No pain, no gain" is a pernicious LIE ! Pain is always a sign that SOMETHING IS WRONG. Muscles and joints which hurt during exercise are being DAMAGED. My position is that "Pain is no gain."

Some trainers claim that "musclebound" is meaningless. I'd love to see one of these stiff over-muscled bodybuilders dance ! I'm sure that an elephant would be much more graceful.

Hatha yogis have to learn to distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' pain, never exerting themselves beyond the point where it might impede the next day's practise.

This is where hatha yoga should differ from the stress and recover approach.

If one man exerts himself to 70% of his ability three times a week, needing a day for recovery between each 'workout', whereas another exerts himself to 50% of his ability six days a week, then we have 210 vs. 300. So, which man wins? The answer is obvious.

arcticwolf
07-16-2014, 03:17 AM
Very much so, but you have made a valuable point. "No pain, no gain" is a pernicious LIE ! Pain is always a sign that SOMETHING IS WRONG. Muscles and joints which hurt during exercise are being DAMAGED. My position is that "Pain is no gain."

Some trainers claim that "musclebound" is meaningless. I'd love to see one of these stiff over-muscled bodybuilders dance ! I'm sure that an elephant would be much more graceful.

The problem with some of the exercises is they streatch ligaments that's a tremendous mistake, as once stretched they stay stretched, leaving joints weak and vulnerable to injuries. Stretching muscles is beneficial, stretching ligaments is harmful.

As to pain, the old masters taught that you should be more energized at the end of the workout than in the beginning. Nowadays people train to failure and pump is everything. I don't buy it, the old masters had it right, they looked more natural, harmonious, they were very strong and acrobatic. Today is mostly about the looks, it used to be about the functional abilities. I am with the old masters on this.

Ctwentysevenj
07-16-2014, 03:23 AM
Just looked at nude yoga video on the internet. Very nice!

Óttar
07-16-2014, 03:29 AM
Do not forget that India was once dominated by two sets of degenerate and parasitical Abrahamics, and that Hindu nationalism was the catalyst that busted them both. Europe may yet undergo a similar revival.

Hindu nationalism must not fall prey to the prejudices of 19th century Victorian British morality. They must rediscover their ancient liberal attitudes toward sexuality and gender. Even Hindu nationalist political scientists ironically look to Lord Curzon in crafting a greater India. I am a believer in "study art from every angle or else you just get half the story..." and "If a lion were given wings, it would be a fool not to use them..." - Shaka Zulu; but Hindu nationalism must not gain the world merely to lose its own soul. These Hindutvadi fuckers even protested against the author of a book about 'Many Ramayanas' on the grounds that there can only be one Ramayana... :picard1:

Let not Hindus turn into an ape of the Abrahamite way of thinking.

silver_surfer
07-16-2014, 08:29 AM
Transnational Anglophone yoga (the best term I have heard to describe the hatha yoga movements in Western society) seems to be a form of gymnastics influenced by some ancient practises from the Vedic times. Certainly, it was developed and promoted by enthusiastic Hindus.

Go back seventy years, and both you and I might not have been permitted to learn these forms as they were being developed in India. At first, Westerner men were admitted as students in the 1950s, then Westerner women in the 1970s.

We have to pay homage to T. Krishnamacharya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Tirumalai_Krishnamacharya) for his work which produced the two most popular systems of hatha yoga in the West, B.K.S. Iyengar's Iyengar Yoga and Pattabhi Jois' Asthanga Vinyasa Yoga.

This excerpt might be of interest:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_vinyasa_yoga#History_and_legend

I do not believe that the Yoga Korunta ever existed outside an elaborate public relations / cultural propaganda campaign. Hatha yoga students from Mysore went touring around India giving demonstrations to encourage the development of an Indian physical culture. There have even been suggestions that the developments in Mysore were influenced by observation of the training techniques of the British Army in Mysore. It is possible.

Reading that surya namaskara (meaning "salutations to the sun") has caused religious consternation on the basis that it might be a form of sun worship is quite ridiculous, considering that it was never even part of traditional yogasana, and probably came from the training techniques of Indian wrestlers. Surya namaskara is a warm-up exercise which has the benefits of press-ups and sit-ups, and is recommended for developing upper body strength.

Where and how does hatha yoga become religious or spiritual in Indian culture? The most I could gather was that there were bands of travelling hatha yogis in India, who were regarded as heretical, dangerous and not very respectable.

I have to take slight issue with your statement that hatha yoga in the West is just stretching. Stretching is involved, but take a look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0

I find it most inspiring.

I don't know much about it in deep, but yoga people do in the west has only the faintest resemblance to the practices of the hindu mystics. Yoga and meditation were designed to enable a person to quiet the body and superfucial mind and go deeper into sustained prayer to God. About the stretching part i said, it basically says get control of yourself, your actions, and your thoughts, through yoga postures and meditation, so that you can have single-minded intense focus and prayer on God. Most people in the US, of course, seem to not want the God part, so many yoga instructors just make it into an exercise program. A lot of people recommend Hatha for beginners, because it tends to be gentler and slower. Hatha will help with mindfulness and relaxation, but it might not be enough if yoga is your main form of exercise. Hatha can actually be seen as a reaction against classic yoga in many ways, rather than an expression or evolution of it.

Leliana
07-16-2014, 10:38 AM
Does driving German cars make you German? :picard2:

(You wish, but it won't. :P)

Fortis in Arduis
07-16-2014, 02:43 PM
I don't know much about it in deep, but yoga people do in the west has only the faintest resemblance to the practices of the hindu mystics. Yoga and meditation were designed to enable a person to quiet the body and superfucial mind and go deeper into sustained prayer to God. About the stretching part i said, it basically says get control of yourself, your actions, and your thoughts, through yoga postures and meditation, so that you can have single-minded intense focus and prayer on God. Most people in the US, of course, seem to not want the God part, so many yoga instructors just make it into an exercise program. A lot of people recommend Hatha for beginners, because it tends to be gentler and slower. Hatha will help with mindfulness and relaxation, but it might not be enough if yoga is your main form of exercise. Hatha can actually be seen as a reaction against classic yoga in many ways, rather than an expression or evolution of it.

In the past, my practise made more sense when I used it for that purpose. Many or at least the best practicioners do, but it is generally kept as a private matter, separate from posture practise. Hatha yoga as a reaction against classic yoga is an old and familiar theme in writings from the early 20th Century, as it was seen by many as heretical.

Leo Iscariot
07-16-2014, 09:16 PM
Does doing a Hindu make you yoga?

dollymehta
03-17-2015, 07:29 AM
not really yoga is a part of exercise.

Mortimer
03-17-2015, 07:33 AM
i know a guy who in school rejected a meditation class because he was a christian. i dont think it makes you hindu, and hinduism has lots of wisdom in my opinion

Goujian
03-19-2015, 11:01 PM
No. Just like meditation doesn't make you a Buddhist or lighting incense on an ancestral altar doesn't make you a Confucian/Taoist/etc.

Anthropos
03-19-2015, 11:33 PM
Yoga is a complete body, mind and spirit system that really made me feel awesome when doing it.

Sums up the nature and purpose of yoga well, in my opinion, and I say that as someone who does not recommend it. Yoga is a spiritual discipline but it's not compatible with Christianity, in my opinion.

jute
05-15-2015, 03:46 PM
No

idioteque
06-11-2018, 03:19 PM
No.

In America practicing yoga is pretty common mostly among women.

Loki
06-11-2018, 04:57 PM
Yoga is originating in Hinduism and Hindu philosophy and spirituality -- hence, for a Christian like me it is not approved and undesirable. We will have no fellowship with foreign religions, it is idolatry and can carry demonic baggage as well.

Larali
06-11-2018, 06:27 PM
Yoga is a form of exercise here.

I don't understand it, myself-- but my daughter loves it. She's 11, and far from a Hindu :lmao