European Comission prediction: Estonia will have the fastest growing economy of Europe in 2011

[Äike]

European Comission prediction (http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication16055_en.pdf): Estonia will have the fastest growing economy of Europe in 2011, with a GDP growth of 4,2%.

http://i38.tinypic.com/34iqy54.jpg

[Motörhead Remember Me]

You Estonians have some balls and I like that.

[Äike]

You Estonians have some balls and I like that.

Estonia has always been an economically successful country, before WW2 Estonia was richer then Finland. ;)

Sadly, 50 years of Communist rule postponed our development, thus our economic growth is rather fast now. Estonia is economically the most successful ex-USSR country. In 1991, Estonia was at the same level as Moldova. Luckily, extremely good political leaders made Estonia into a successful country.

[The Lawspeaker]

European Comission prediction (http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication16055_en.pdf): Estonia will have the fastest growing economy of Europe in 2011, with a GDP growth of 4,2%.

http://i38.tinypic.com/34iqy54.jpg
Well, Karl. Let's just wait and see shall we ?
After all economic growth in these times is as much as a guarantee as the assumption that Luxembourg will beat Brazil 10-0 in South Africa.

Only the Money Masters know who will get the cake. The graph itself is a tad weird btw: private consumption in 2008 crashed -3.6% , in 2009 it is estimated to go down a wooping -13,7%, followed by an additional -0,1% next year and suddenly rise a wooping 4,2% in 2011 what still means btw that Estonia is still down -13.2% as seen from the 2007 level (if my non-existent calculation skills haven't completely deserted me).

And that's just private consumption. That's what a chap like you has in his wallet.
Your countries' unemployment rate will still be at an incredible 14.2%. To summarize it all: your country has been assraped and nicked blind by the banks.

[RoyBatty]

In previous years much of Eastern Europe (including Baltic countries) economic growth was based on massive foreign credit injections so while growth undeniably took place, there was a very high price to pay for this. That price was to be swallowed up by creditors unless the money could be repaid.

If credit repayments are manageable the growth should be sustainable but if not..... well.... the end result will be to be out of pocket and out of property.

[RoyBatty]

Estonia has always been an economically successful country, before WW2 Estonia was richer then Finland. ;)

Sadly, 50 years of Communist rule postponed our development, thus our economic growth is rather fast now. Estonia is economically the most successful ex-USSR country. In 1991, Estonia was at the same level as Moldova. Luckily, extremely good political leaders made Estonia into a successful country.

Countries like Moldova would be better off with Kazakh leadership!! :D

[Lahtari]

I demand our southern neighbor to stop growing immediately. Or where else do you think I will be getting cheap booze then? :( :p

[Äike]

I demand our southern neighbor to stop growing immediately. Or where else do you think I will be getting cheap booze then? :( :p

Russia? :D The vodka prices there are quite cheap, compared to Estonian prices.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Russia? :D The vodka prices there are quite cheap, compared to Estonian prices.

But we don't like the taste of windshieldwiper fluid...

[Lahtari]

Russia? :D The vodka prices there are quite cheap, compared to Estonian prices.

The black booze of Mordor is very affordable indeed, but it's a bit far away for people living in western parts of Shire. And you have to pass Minas Morgul, and when you return, the guards at Minas Tirith will only let you have a few bottles. :grumpy: :D

[Äike]

This European Comission prediction was wrong about one thing, they thought that the Estonian GDP will decrease by 0.1 percent in 2010. In reality, the Estonian economy grew 2.8 percent(!) in 2010.

Thus the European Comission will probably be correct about one thing, Estonia will have the fastest growing economy in 2011, but our GDP might grow more than 4.2 percent. :)

[Albion]

This is great news, I hope Estonia continues along this path. Isn't much of the investment in Estonia from Sweden and Germany? I hope the downturn in the world's economy doesn't halt Estonia's growth.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Then in two years after the bubble bursts, the Estonians'll go back to being Soviet peasants.

[The Lawspeaker]

Then in two years after the bubble bursts, the Estonians'll go back to being Soviet peasants.
Probably something like that, yes. Nicked blind by the bankers they will return to unemployed as they were until recently or seek jobs abroad. Like for instance the Irish are now.

[Äike]

This is great news, I hope Estonia continues along this path. Isn't much of the investment in Estonia from Sweden and Germany? I hope the downturn in the world's economy doesn't halt Estonia's growth.

Estonia's main trading partners are Finland and Sweden. If something goes wrong there, then it will also affect us. But the Swedish economy is also growing.


Then in two years after the bubble bursts, the Estonians'll go back to being Soviet peasants.

Says the person who's country is so poor and fucked up that you live on the other side of the globe.


Probably something like that, yes. Nicked blind by the bankers they will return to unemployed as they were until recently or seek jobs abroad. Like for instance the Irish are now.


@lol at wannabe economic experts who are talking like they would have learned economics for 10 years in university and are writing articles for The Economist.

Civis Batavi, you surprise me the most. Do I see envy?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Estonia's main trading partners are Finland and Sweden. If something goes wrong there, then it will also affect us. But the Swedish economy is also growing.



Says the person who's country is so poor and fucked up that you live on the other side of the globe.


That's right, that means I know what's in store for you.

[Breedingvariety]

Then in two years after the bubble bursts, the Estonians'll go back to being Soviet peasants.
Soviets weren't peasants. They were forced labour industrialists.

[Äike]

That's right, that means I know what's in store for you.


Soviets weren't peasants. They were forced labour industrialists.

Libre is a troll living on the other side of the planet, ignore him.

[Fortis in Arduis]

^ Is correct. If only they had been peasants.

Measuring progress in terms of economic growth is bogus Karl.

I am getting the message that Estonia is fabulous.

You know, Arvo Part and art and Skype and stuff, but unless Estonians own Estonia, it is not Estonia any more, my dear!

Even ruhtardud Inese understands this, and there is an opportunity here to make the case for economic nationalism, but no, greed is good!

Your posts merit a series of spoofs made about them Karl.

I am sorry that it has come to this, but you take the fucking piss mate...

[Äike]

^ Is correct. If only they had been peasants.

Measuring progress in terms of economic growth is bogus Karl.

I am getting the message that Estonia is fabulous.

You know, Arvo Part and art and Skype and stuff, but unless Estonians own Estonia, it is not Estonia any more, my dear!

Even ruhtardud Inese understands this, and there is an opportunity here to make the case for economic nationalism, but no, greed is good!

Your posts merit a series of spoofs made about them Karl.

I am sorry that it has come to this, but you take the fucking piss mate...

Part means duck... His name is Arvo Pärt.

Your posts do not make sense, as always.

[The Lawspeaker]

@lol at wannabe economic experts who are talking like they would have learned economics for 10 years in university and are writing articles for The Economist.

Civis Batavi, you surprise me the most. Do I see envy?
Not particularly. It's simple mathematics and calculation and being street-wise. Even an idiot knows when he is getting pickpocketed. And that's exactly what they are doing to Estonia, mate.

I know.. because we have been there before. And if I should feel anything then it's feeling sorry for you because you are walking into a trap and the noose is already around your neck. Good luck.. because you will need it !

[Äike]

Not particularly. It's simple mathematics and calculation and being street-wise. Even an idiot knows when he is getting pickpocketed. And that's exactly what they are doing to Estonia, mate.

I know.. because we have been there before. And if I should feel anything then it's feeling sorry for you because you are walking into a trap and the noose is already around your neck. Good luck.. because you will need it !


lol :)

[The Lawspeaker]

It's a real shame you can't speak Dutch as we have a set of "Jaaroverzichten" (annual news summaries) in the Dutch section - including from the 1980s. It would perhaps have made you a bit more cautious and a bit wiser.

When I hear those news reports from particularly 1980 to 1987 the economic ones sound awfully familiar as exactly the same words are being used today: tightening the belts, juvenile unemployment, ageing population, people being laid off, factories shut, jobs moved to low-wage countries. It's not as bad as it was back then but it took some time back then to set in too (starting off during the 70s).

And even when the stock exchange was doing better unemployment was well over half a million people (around 1985, 1986).

Don't say I didn't warn you when it happens to you. That's how the market economy works. If someone else gets cheaper then Estonia they move on.

[Äike]

It's a real shame you can't speak Dutch as we have a set of "Jaaroverzichten" (annual news summaries) in Dutch section - including from the 1980s. It would perhaps have made you a bit more cautious and a bit wiser.

When I hear those news reports from particularly 1980 to 1987 the economic ones sound awfully familiar as exactly the same words are being used today: tightening the belts, juvenile unemployed, people being laid off. It's not as bad as it was back then but it took some time back then to set in too.

And even when the stock exchange was doing better unemployment was well over half a million people (around 1985, 1986).


Estonia was in a crisis in 2008 and 2009, but now the economy is growing again. The crisis here wasn't even caused by us, it was caused by the USA. Another crisis will hit Estonia, only if a country like the US fucks up economically.

[The Lawspeaker]

Estonia was in a crisis in 2008 and 2009, but now the economy is growing again. The crisis here wasn't even caused by us, it was caused by the USA. Another crisis will hit Estonia, only if a country like the US fucks up economically.

Don't say I didn't warn you. I am tired of explaining it to you, frankly. :)

[Äike]

Don't say I didn't warn you when it happens to you. That's how the market economy works. If someone else gets cheaper then Estonia they move on.
[/FONT]

Estonians have the highest GDP per capita in the entire ex-USSR area. There are a dozen countries with a cheaper workforce, like Latvia, Lithuania, Russia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria etc. Although ex-Eastern block countries which weren't in the USSR had a significant edge over the ex-USSR area, Estonia still surpassed most of them from an economic point of view.

[Äike]

Don't say I didn't warn you. I am tired of explaining it to you, frankly. :)


Hey, I'll start listening to you, if you start writing articles for The Economist.

[The Lawspeaker]

And where did the money come from ? Estonia was bare by the time the Soviets left. It was effed up beyond repair so the money was paid for by Europe. It was loaned to you by the big banks and when they screw up they ask back their money and of course they charge interest. Big time.

Want to know what happens then ? Ask the Greeks, ask the Irish, ask the Germans of the 1920s, ask the Dutch of the 1980s. They will tell you.

And I don't need The Economist for that (which is a bankers rag).. you need street smarts and a some knowledge of history. That's what you need.

[Äike]

And where did the money come from ? Estonia was bare by the time the Soviets left. It was effed up beyond repair so the money was paid for by Europe.need.

Estonia was the richest region of the Russian Empire and the richest region of the entire USSR(which controlled almost half of Eurasia).

Estonia and Estonians being wealthy isn't anything recent. Although the Soviet occupation made a big economic gap between Estonia and countries not affected by Soviet occupation.

[Radola]

Slovenia $27,149
Portugal $22,997
Czech Rep. $21,028
Malta $20,202
Slovak Rep. $17,630
Estonia $17,299
source: http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Estonia/gdp-per-capita

Sounds quite good for you, although it will take time until you reach the most successful countries of ex-eastern block, like us or Slovenia, but still, I have to agree with Civis, it might be just temporary illusion.

[Äike]

source: http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Estonia/gdp-per-capita

Sounds quite good for you, although it will take time until you reach the most successful countries of ex-eastern block, like us or Slovenia,

I did read a book about the Estonian economic situation and the reforms made in the 90's, written by the former prime minister, Mart Laar. It made things clearer. It's available in Estonian and German. In German the book's name is Das estnische Wirtschaftwunder(In English, The Estonian Economic Miracle).

If the Czech Republic would have started making reforms at the same time as Estonia, then things would be different. Practically saying, countries like Slovakia and the Czech Republic have a several year lead. The success you are talking about is only explained by having the opportunity of making the needed reforms, several years before. Thus, in 2015 the GDP of Estonia in 2015 should be compared with the GDP of the Czech Republic in 2011.

Comparing the ex-USSR area with the non-USSR Eastern Bloc is like comparing apples and pears. It's already amazing enough, that Estonia surpasses almost all the ex-Eastern Bloc countries who had a significant advantage. Only 3 countries used that advantage, I guess, and started developing their country as fiercely as Estonian politicians did.


but still, I have to agree with Civis, it might be just temporary illusion.

It's as temporary as the situation in the Czech Republic.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's as temporary as the situation in the Czech Republic.
It is. And I am quite sure that unlike you Radola does not try to ignore the harsh reality of it all.

[Äike]

It is. And I am quite sure that unlike you Radola does not try to ignore the harsh reality of it all.

So what are you saying? Countries like Slovakia will never be as wealthy as the countries not affected by socialism and will fall back into poverty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbcH_qYkeTc

[Radola]

I did read a book about the Estonian economic situation and the reforms made in the 90's, written by the former prime minister, Mart Laar. It made things clearer. It's available in Estonian and German. In German the book's name is Das estnische Wirtschaftwunder(In English, The Estonian Economic Miracle).

If the Czech Republic would have started making reforms at the same time as Estonia, then things would be different. Practically saying, countries like Slovakia and the Czech Republic have a several year lead. The success you are talking about is only explained by having the opportunity of making the needed reforms, several years before. Thus, in 2015 the GDP of Estonia in 2015 should be compared with the GDP of the Czech Republic in 2011.

Comparing the ex-USSR area with the non-USSR Eastern Bloc is like comparing apples and pears. It's already amazing enough, that Estonia surpasses almost all the ex-Eastern Bloc countries who had a significant advantage. Only 3 countries used that advantage, I guess, and started developing their country as fiercely as Estonian politicians did.



It's as temporary as the situation in the Czech Republic.

The time will show us, but to be correct
From the article about the economy of the Czech Republic - It is one of the most stable and prosperous of the post-Communist states of Central and Eastern Europe.

We´ve got stable economy, maybe not so quickly growing as yours, but well, this is the danger for you....

[The Lawspeaker]

So what are you saying? Countries like the Czech Republic will never be as wealthy as the countries not affected by socialism and will fall back into poverty?

No that's not what I am saying. I am saying that: the wealth is fictitious and it's just as fictitious here. When the big cooperations and banks have made enough money and the grass is greener somewhere else they move on.

[Äike]

The time will show us, but to be correct

We´ve got stable economy, maybe not so quickly growing as yours, but well, this is the danger for you....

Reread your quoted sentence, Slavic Eastern-European.


Czech Republic - It is one of the most stable and prosperous of the post-Communist states of Central and Eastern Europe.

The reason why people are talking about Das estnische Wirtschaftwunder/The Estonian Economic Miracle, is because our economy is growing and it is also stable.

I'll bring an example, as a person who reads economic news and doesn't make idiotic posts like Civis Batavi, I know about a thing like the European Economic Sustainability Index (EESI).

Estonia was economically the most sustainable economy(#1) in the EU before the crisis. Both Latvia and Estonia were growing very rapidly.

Now here comes the Estonian Economic Miracle, Latvia drops to the bottom of the list with the crisis and is only above Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. Estonia is only surpassed by Sweden and has the 2nd(together with Denmark) most sustainable economy in the EU. This is stability in the purest sense of the word.

Estonia is economically more stable than the Czech Republic(which is ranked 9th/midfield/average).

Conclusion: Estonia is more stable than the Czech Republic, at the same with having a faster growing economy.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8536/europeaneconomicsustain.png

[Peerkons]

Estonia was the richest region of the Russian Empire and the richest region of the entire USSR(which controlled almost half of Eurasia).

Estonia and Estonians being wealthy isn't anything recent. Although the Soviet occupation made a big economic gap between Estonia and countries not affected by Soviet occupation.

Show me facts, please.

[Radola]

Reread your quoted sentence, Slavic Eastern-European.



The reason why people are talking about Das estnische Wirtschaftwunder/The Estonian Economic Miracle, is because our economy is growing and it is also stable.

I'll bring an example, as a person who reads economic news and doesn't make idiotic posts like Civis Batavi, I know about a thing like the European Economic Sustainability Index (EESI).

Estonia was economically the most sustainable economy(#1) in the EU before the crisis. Both Latvia and Estonia were growing very rapidly.

Now here comes the Estonian Economic Miracle, Latvia drops to the bottom of the list with the crisis and is only above Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. Estonia is only surpassed by Sweden and has the 2nd(together with Denmark) most sustainable economy in the EU. This is stability in the purest sense of the word.

Estonia is economically more stable than the Czech Republic(which is ranked 9th/midfield/average).

Conclusion: Estonia is more stable than the Czech Republic, at the same with having a faster growing economy.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8536/europeaneconomicsustain.png


If this all will be proven as real, I mean if this will really happen and your economy will be still growing and stable, then you´re pretty lucky and I wish you your success, but man, do you have to be so impolite? Have I also called you uralo-finno-ugric ex-soviet? So reconsider your behavior, be so kind;)

[Äike]

If this all will be proven as real, I mean if this will really happen and your economy will be still growing and stable, then you´re pretty lucky and I wish you your success, but man,

It is real:

http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=2&pub_id=1127

http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub_1127_eesi.pdf


European Economic Sustainability Index
16 June 2010

Launched on the eve of the European Council meeting, this European Economic Sustainability Index (EESI) has been designed by Fabian Zuleeg to enable a comparison of the long term economic sustainability of EU Member States. Each EU country is simultaneously assessed according to six criteria (deficits, national debt, growth, competitiveness, governance/ corruption and cost of ageing) and then ranked against the other 26. The 2010 data show that Scandinavian countries, plus Estonia, perform best, and northern/central European countries such as the Netherlands and Germany also perform well. Greece comes out bottom, closely followed by Italy with Portugal also performing badly.


Do you have to be so impolite? Have I also called you uralo-finno-ugric ex-soviet? So reconsider your behavior, be so kind;)

Is being called Slavic, an insult? I am very proud if someone calls me Finnic.

[Osweo]

Estonia will have the fastest growing economy in 2011, but our GDP might grow more than 4.2 percent. :)

I hope you like sharing;
http://www.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/large_610x456_scaled/photos/Thousands-Zimbabweans-Queue-South-African-Residency-Papers_547210.jpg
I'm not gloating, just concerned. :(

[Radola]

It is real:

http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=2&pub_id=1127

http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub_1127_eesi.pdf





Is being called Slavic, an insult? I am very proud if someone calls me Finnic.

Of course it isn´t an insult, but is it normal to call someone a Finn, a Slav, a German, a Roman..? I don´t usually call other people with such names, but who knows maybe in Estonia it´s normal.:rolleyes:
And btw. when someone says it in such a way you used it, than it sounds like an insult, yes. Am I misstaken?

[Fortis in Arduis]

Part means duck... His name is Arvo Pärt.

Your posts do not make sense, as always.

What does Tabula Rasa mean? ;)

...There shall be spoofs.

The Apriciverse has had quite enough!

[Groenewolf]

It was loaned to you by the big banks and when they screw up they ask back their money and of course they charge interest. Big time.

Do not know if you knew what happened when the banks screwed up big time some time ago. But they went crying for help to the governments to prevent them from going bankrupt.


Want to know what happens then ? Ask the Greeks,

In all essence the Greeks used a lot of the money they got in the wrong way and did not lay strong foundations that could help them trow economic bad times. And of course they had practiced bad bookkeeping to keep up the appearance of doing well so that could keep on borrowing money. Until the trick no longer worked.


ask the Germans of the 1920s,

Warreperations they where forced to pay by the victories side in WOI and the hyperinflation was caused by the Wiemar-republic who wanted to inflate themselves out it.


And I don't need The Economist for that (which is a bankers rag).. you need street smarts and a some knowledge of history. That's what you need.[/FONT]

Actually some real knowledge of economics would go a long way to ensuring that economic downturns hit less hard then they are doing now. I hope that Estonia got their books really in order and that their economic fundamentals are solid. And of course that the public and private sector are not borrowing and spending money like there is no tomorrow.

[The Lawspeaker]

Do not know if you knew what happened when the banks screwed up big time some time ago. But they went crying for help to the governments to prevent them from going bankrupt.
While they used the money they received for big bonuses. Something tells me that they pulled a fraud stunt.







Warreperations they where forced to pay by the victories side in WOI and the hyperinflation was caused by the Wiemar-republic who wanted to inflate themselves out it.
They also got money from the Americans under the Dawes Plan and in 1929 the Americans asked their money back. With interest.

[Groenewolf]

I hope you like sharing;
http://www.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/large_610x456_scaled/photos/Thousands-Zimbabweans-Queue-South-African-Residency-Papers_547210.jpg
I'm not gloating, just concerned. :(

The picture I got about the economy of Estonia, thanks to tread made by Karl, is that is mostly focused on high-tech, and Negroes in general are not really fit for that kind of work. Of course it is possible that the EU will expect that Estonia takes its fair share of the third world immigration burden and provide facilities for them.

[Äike]

What does Tabula Rasa mean? ;)

...There shall be spoofs.

The Apriciverse has had quite enough!

I was trying to point out how important umlauts are in Northern-European languages.

I'll bring a few examples from Estonian:

üks - 1

uks - door

näts - chewing um

nats - nazi

[Peerkons]

I was trying to point out how important umlauts are in Northern-European languages.

I'll bring a few examples from Estonian:

üks - 1

uks - door

näts - chewing um

nats - nazi

Estonian is Finnic-Uralic language
There isn't such term as Northern-European languages

[Groenewolf]

[FONT="Tahoma"]
While they used the money they received for big bonuses. Something tells me that they pulled a fraud stunt.

From what I read it was part of their contracts that would get an automatic bonuses no matter how bad the company fared under their management. I actually have read in one the magazines I receive. They have made those automatic bonuses part of their contracts and they made it very hard to change.

However I do not think that all the money where used for that. Of course the fact that they did still cashed in to bonus checks says enough about their attitude. I could point to Goldman Sachs where the bank managers tried to buy out on of their mayor stockholders after that stockholder tried to change the bonus culture. Of course said holder had put his reputation on the line to get bailout money for Goldman.

[Äike]

Estonian is Finno-Ugric language
There isn't such term as Northern-European languages

I meant that all languages spoken by Northern-Europeans use ümläüts, be it Northern-Germanic or Finnic. Umlauts are more important in a word than most foreigners think. Replacing an ä with an a can completely change the meaning of a word.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I meant that all languages spoken by Northern-Europeans use ümläüts, be it Northern-Germanic or Finnic. Umlauts are more important in a word than most foreigners think. Replacing an ä with an a can completely change the meaning of a word.

So, I chewed a Nazi whilst listening to a piece of music by Mr Duck.

All thanks to Estonia.

Perfect. :thumbs