Could I be Turkish

[JQP4545]

My Y-Haplogroup is I2a2b (M423) and my male lineage goes back to Greece. However, my surname has a Turkish word origin and my male line originates in Smyrna (Greeks). My question is what ethnicity do I descend from? Could it be Turkish? I noticed that Eastern Turkey has high levels of this haplogroup.

[Rojava]

I noticed that Eastern Turkey has high levels of this haplogroup.

You could be part Kurdish or Armenian or even Assyrian (or all three of them)

What's your surname?

[Rojava]

btw:

I2a1b (M423, L178) was known as I1b until 2007, and I2a2 from 2008 to 2010. The main subclade, representing over 90% of all M423 lineages is L621 and its subclade L147.2. The other subclades are L41.2 (very rare) and L161.1 (found mostly in Germany and the British Isles).

[orangepulp]

If you could provide your surname maybe we can tell.

[JQP4545]

The Turkish word would be Bodur or Boudour.

[JQP4545]

You could be part Kurdish or Armenian or even Assyrian (or all three of them)

What's your surname?

My surname didn't leave Smyrna until 1400s so the Seljuks would have been in Anatolia for 400 years.

[orangepulp]

The Turkish word would be Bodur or Boudour.

Bodur is Turkish, it means short height.

[JQP4545]

Bodur is Turkish, it means short height.

Right, but does that mean a Greek man who got a Turkish name or a Turkish man who joined the Greek community?

[MfA_]

That's Dinaric clade, even if your ancestor was Turkish, It would be a Janissary, not Anatolian.. Are you sure your paper records are %100 solid? I wouldn't trust much on that..

[JQP4545]

That's Dinaric clade, even if your ancestor was Turkish, It would be a Janissary, not Anatolian.. Are you sure your paper records are %100 solid? I wouldn't trust much on that..

It also peaks in Turkish Kurdistan. Something like 30% or Kurds have this haplogroup and I believe they were often soldiers.

[orangepulp]

Right, but does that mean a Greek man who got a Turkish name or a Turkish man who joined the Greek community?

Depends on your genetic results.


There are many Armenians and Kurds who got Turkish last names. I met with a couple of them.
You could be a Greek with a Turkish last name, not necessarily Turkish by ancestry.
But as you said you could also be of Turkish ancestry who assimilated into the Greek community.
Would be helpful to see some of your genetic data.

[MfA_]

It also peaks in Turkish Kurdistan. Something like 30% or Kurds have this haplogroup and I believe they were often soldiers.

Kurdish I2 is different.. It contains both Dinaric I2 and Caucasus I2.. Dinaric one was probably carried by Cimmerians to Kurdistan.. We don't know how many of Kurdish I2 is Dinaric or Caucasus, there is only I2 data..

[JQP4545]

Well all I know is 23andMe says I'm I2a2b. I don't know which version for sure.

[Armatus]

Can you provide STR markers ? They can answer your question.

[JQP4545]

Can you provide STR markers ? They can answer your question.

What are STR markers?

[Kastrioti1443]

I2a2b is not Dinaric.

[Armatus]

What are STR markers?
Okay, i just read that you tested with 23andMe, so no STR markers for you. If you really want to know something about your deep paternal ancestry you should test with FamilyTreeDNA.

" The STRs found in the Y-DNA are very useful for genealogical studies to examine male lineage. A male individual’s Y-DNA STR is unique to his paternal line and can be determined through Y-DNA STR Testing. That means that all males who are descendents from the same male lineage will have exactly the same or a very similar Y-DNA STR pattern."

[The King, I am]

You might have 1 turkish ancestor that doesn't make you Turkish

[JQP4545]

Well on GEDMatch I consistently show 8-12% of some Caucasus region ethnicity; either Lezgin or Georgian.

[Insuperable]

If it is M423, clade nomenclature probably changed so it is I2a1b now (23andme is slow in this).
There are three types under M423 branch: Dinaric North, Dinaric South (western Balkans one) and Disles-Isles.

Surprisingly M423 Greeks belong to Dinaric North clade to which most of Macedonian and Bulgarian I2 carriers belong.


You can forget about Kurdish thing for now since Kurdish type M423 belongs to neither of above mentioned types.

[Dianatomia]

The origin of the name doesn't mean anything. Many christian minorities in Ottoman Anatolia had to take Turkish surnames. In some cases their original names were translated into Turkish.

[JQP4545]

If it is M423, clade nomenclature probably changed so it is I2a1b now (23andme is slow in this).
There are three types under M423 branch: Dinaric North, Dinaric South (western Balkans one) and Disles-Isles.

Surprisingly M423 Greeks belong to Dinaric North clade to which most of Macedonian and Bulgarian I2 carriers belong.



You can forget about Kurdish thing for now since Kurdish type M423 belong to neither of above mentioned types.

I don't know if it is M423 just that it is I2a2b.

[Armatus]

Well on GEDMatch I consistently show 8-12% of some Caucasus region ethnicity; either Lezgin or Georgian.

Could you specify that ? Scoring 8%+ Caucausus is relatively common for central europeans on some gedmatch calculators. Also it has probably nothing to do with your paternal line since the dominant I2 subclade in the caucasus region is I2c-B.

[JQP4545]

Could you specify that ? Scoring 8%+ Caucausus is relatively common for central europeans on some gedmatch calculators. Also it has probably nothing to do with your paternal line since the dominant I2 subclade in the caucasus region is I2c-B.

Dodedad K12b:

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 French 74.07%
2 Georgians 11.89%
3 Polish 4.28%
4 Finnish 3.99%
5 Bulgarians 2.36%
6 Romanians 1.43%
7 Mandenka 1.06%
8 Mozabite 0.68%
9 Japanese 0.24%
10 Bulgarian 0.00%

[d3cimat3d]

Bodur is a common Gagauz last name.

http://gagavouzis.blogspot.com/

[Insuperable]

Well you wrote I2a2b(M423). M423 is now actually I2a1b. M423 is more important designation. You have Greek ancestry. Greek I2 people mostly belong to Dinaric-North type since it is less likely to be I2a2b

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

[Mehmet]

You can be an 'Orthodox Christian Turk(!)' actually; Gagauz or Karamanli.
They have been shipped to Greece during the population exchange of 1920's; despite they used to read Bible in Turkish and pray that way.

But if your ancestors were from Smyrna, I think you're rather Rum (native Anatolian who has been systematically Hellenized after Alexander invasion).

Btw it's funny that Kurds run first to a thread involving Turk. :)

[JQP4545]

Well you wrote I2a2b(M423). M423 is now actually I2a1b. M423 is more important designation. You have Greek ancestry. Greek I2 people mostly belong to Dinaric-North type since it is less likely to be I2a2b

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

Right, but I don't know if it is M423, just I2a2b.

[Armatus]

Dodedad K12b:

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 French 74.07%
2 Georgians 11.89%
3 Polish 4.28%
4 Finnish 3.99%
5 Bulgarians 2.36%
6 Romanians 1.43%
7 Mandenka 1.06%
8 Mozabite 0.68%
9 Japanese 0.24%
10 Bulgarian 0.00%

The point calc option often gives weird results especially in the second spot and below. You should run MDLP K=12 and post your results, it often detects (real) eurasian admixture.

[Insuperable]

Right, but I don't know if it is M423, just I2a2b.

Whatever it is, it is a European lineage. I2a1b was before called I2a2b. As I have said 23andme still uses old designations, most probably as they usually do.

Your father's ancestor probably simply translated his name into Turkish.

If you knew you are I2a2b why did you write M423 designation next to I2a2b whose designation is L38?

[JQP4545]

The point calc option often gives weird results especially in the second spot and below. You should run MDLP K=12 and post your results, it often detects (real) eurasian admixture.

Population
East_European 17.71%
Paleo_Mediterranean 22.29%
Iberian 11.61%
Caucasian 10.52%
Uralic_Permic 2.06%
Balto_Finnic 4.62%
Paleo_Balkanic 2.06%
Celto_Germanic 25.67%
Paleo_North_European 0.58%
South_Central_Asian 2.04%
Volga_Uralic 0.83%
Altaic_Turkic -


Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 GER 67.61%
2 CPR 13.57%
3 SRD 7.04%
4 KSV 3.58%
5 NITAL 2.84%
6 FRN 2.01%
7 BASQ 1.76%
8 GYP 0.81%
9 UD 0.77%
10 BLG 0.01%

[JQP4545]

Whatever it is, it is a European lineage. I2a1b was before called I2a2b. As I have said 23andme still uses old designations, most probably as they usually do.

Your father's ancestor probably simply translated his name into Turkish.

If you knew you are I2a2b why did you write M423 designation next to I2a2b whose designation is L38?

I2a1b is also found at higher concentrations in Eastern Turkey than in Greece.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

[Armatus]

Population
East_European 17.71%
Paleo_Mediterranean 22.29%
Iberian 11.61%
Caucasian 10.52%
Uralic_Permic 2.06%
Balto_Finnic 4.62%
Paleo_Balkanic 2.06%
Celto_Germanic 25.67%
Paleo_North_European 0.58%
South_Central_Asian 2.04%
Volga_Uralic 0.83%
Altaic_Turkic -



That says everything, a turk should atleast score a few percent here.

About the nomenclature:
I-M423:
ISOGG: I2a1b -> I2a1b3: L621 for which you are 99% positive
FTDNA: I2a2
23&ME: I2a2b

http://i.imgur.com/MQWUz9Z.jpg
That's the clade you probably fall in.

[Insuperable]

I2a1b is also found at higher concentrations in Eastern Turkey than in Greece.

On wikipedia Turkish sample is 500-1000 which is not bad and 4% belong to various I2a clades which is pretty low even compared to that map overall (so don't take too much confidence in maps). while in Northern Greece samples it is 16%, but you can believe whatever you want.

Fucking anyway
You posted a map of I2a1 (which includes many clades I2a1b, I2a2b...):rolleyes:
The high scores in Eastern Turkey which you mention are probably due to Kurds, but didn't I tell you that Kurds have different I2a1 clades than those in Balkans!?

[JQP4545]

On wikipedia Turkish sample is 500-1000 which is not bad and 4% belong to various I2a clades which is pretty low even compared to that map overall (so don't take too much confidence in maps). while in Northern Greece samples it is 16%, but you can believe whatever you want.

Fucking anyway
You posted a map of I2a1 (which includes many clades I2a1b, I2a2b...):rolleyes:
The high scores in Eastern Turkey which you mention are probably due to Kurds, but didn't I tell you that Kurds have different I2a1 clades than those in Balkans!?

How do you know my Chromosome comes from the Balkans? All it says on 23andMe is I2a2b. Plus my male line originates in Western Turkey, not Northern Greece.

[JQP4545]

Even the 23andMe map shows a large amount of my haplogroup in Kurdistan.

[Carlito's Way]

no but i can pass for one, can you?

[HellLander87]

Right, but does that mean a Greek man who got a Turkish name or a Turkish man who joined the Greek community?
Many Greeks have turkish surnames without being Turkish at all.Greek language adopted many turkish words, and also many Greeks spoke Turkish too besides Greek.
Many Greeks converted to islam in asia minor.But A muslim those years would never adopt christianity.Conversions would go from christians to muslims but never the opposite.

[denz]

It also peaks in Turkish Kurdistan. Something like 30% or Kurds have this haplogroup and I believe they were often soldiers.

You cant be a turk. Non of proper Turk can call Turkish Kurdistan, only traitors and their supporters :)

[Armatus]

How do you know my Chromosome comes from the Balkans? All it says on 23andMe is I2a2b. Plus my male line originates in Western Turkey, not Northern Greece.
Your ancestors were (in 1000BC) surely in the Balkans since then and there the M423 mutation,that you carry, occured. The question is only when your ancestors entered Turkey.

[Insuperable]

How do you know my Chromosome comes from the Balkans? All it says on 23andMe is I2a2b. Plus my male line originates in Western Turkey, not Northern Greece.

I never said nor thought you are from northern Greece, but it was still kind of stupid of mentioning northern Greece.

M423 is present on Aegean islands too. It is not Smyrna exactly, but...

[meralodem]

My Y-Haplogroup is I2a2b (M423) and my male lineage goes back to Greece. However, my surname has a Turkish word origin and my male line originates in Smyrna (Greeks). My question is what ethnicity do I descend from? Could it be Turkish? I noticed that Eastern Turkey has high levels of this haplogroup.

Probably you are just Greek

[meralodem]

You could be part Kurdish or Armenian or even Assyrian (or all three of them)

What's your surname?

You must be a joke! how many kurds were residing in İzmir before 90's:picard1:

[meralodem]

It also peaks in Turkish Kurdistan. Something like 30% or Kurds have this haplogroup and I believe they were often soldiers.

In 1400's eastern Turkey was not a part of Ottoman! There were Turkish soldiers in byzantium army, their descendants are mostly the Central Anatolian Orthodox '' Karamanlı ' s, if you are related to them then you may be ethnic Turkic but İzmir was populated by Greek Jews Turks Armenians and some Latins, you may be connected to those Latin traders who are called Levanten

[meralodem]

The origin of the name doesn't mean anything. Many christian minorities in Ottoman Anatolia had to take Turkish surnames. In some cases their original names were translated into Turkish.

Had to???:picard1: We were not using surnames.... Our gravestones says '' Anadan doğma, babadan olma '' meaning '' Born from mother bla bla, been from father bla bla daughter or son Ahmet Mehmet ..''

[meralodem]

Bodur is a common Gagauz last name.

http://gagavouzis.blogspot.com/

Gagauz are Türks but that site shows them greek by conencting them to Byzantium :picard1:

[JQP4545]

Had to???:picard1: We were not using surnames.... Our gravestones says '' Anadan doğma, babadan olma '' meaning '' Born from mother bla bla, been from father bla bla daughter or son Ahmet Mehmet ..''

So then why is my last name Turkish?

[meralodem]

Many Greeks have turkish surnames without being Turkish at all.Greek language adopted many turkish words, and also many Greeks spoke Turkish too besides Greek.
Many Greeks converted to islam in asia minor.But A muslim those years would never adopt christianity.Conversions would go from christians to muslims but never the opposite.

Generally christians became muslim but also some muslims became christian in Anatolia including the uncle of Fatih Sultan Mehmet Han

[JQP4545]

In 1400's eastern Turkey was not a part of Ottoman! There were Turkish soldiers in byzantium army, their descendants are mostly the Central Anatolian Orthodox '' Karamanlı ' s, if you are related to them then you may be ethnic Turkic but İzmir was populated by Greek Jews Turks Armenians and some Latins, you may be connected to those Latin traders who are called Levanten

What about the Seljuks?

[JQP4545]

Had to???:picard1: We were not using surnames.... Our gravestones says '' Anadan doğma, babadan olma '' meaning '' Born from mother bla bla, been from father bla bla daughter or son Ahmet Mehmet ..''

So you are saying all Greeks with Turkish names are descended from Turks or Turkish speaking Anatolians.

[Armatus]

"I-P37 and J-M12 are dated to 1,100BC and 1,200BC, at around the time that e.g. the Phrygians from the Balkans are believed to have migrated to Asia Minor. I-P37 and J-M12 reach their maxima in areas north of Greece where the Phrygians are said to have originated."

That's a possibility aswell.

[JQP4545]

That says everything, a turk should atleast score a few percent here.

About the nomenclature:
I-M423:
ISOGG: I2a1b -> I2a1b3: L621 for which you are 99% positive
FTDNA: I2a2
23&ME: I2a2b

http://i.imgur.com/MQWUz9Z.jpg
That's the clade you probably fall in.

Many people who are "Turkish" probably have no Turkic blood, just as not all Americans have English blood.

[meralodem]

So then why is my last name Turkish?
Probably your ancestors were living around Türks and we give names to people based on their looks and characteristics, my lastname is not Köse but we are still called Köse meaning someone who cant have a beard, hairless. And in every chance trying to show Ottomans in a negative view with lies is just sick, we didnt have surnames and the guy is saying '' had to ''. Karamanlı people were Turkish and speaking Turkish and sometimes yes they used Turkish first names but not islamic ones! They didnt rebel against Ottomans actually when Greeks attacked Türks first thing they wanted from Sultan was the seperation of their church from the greeks, something happened and they are gone and became Greeks in Greece, we are not going to Greece to convert them to Turkishness but still some pricks attacking us with lies!

[meralodem]

Many people who are "Turkish" probably have no Turkic blood, just as not all Americans have English blood.

What is Turkic blood or DNA? We are mostly real ethnic Türks, not dönme!

[Insuperable]

Probably your ancestors were living around Türks and we give names to people based on their looks and characteristics, my lastname is not Köse but we are still called Köse meaning someone who cant have a beard, hairless. And in every chance trying to show Ottomans in a negative view with lies is just sick, we didnt have surnames and the guy is saying '' had to ''. Karamanlı people were Turkish and speaking Turkish and sometimes yes they used Turkish first names but not islamic ones! They didnt rebel against Ottomans actually when Greeks attacked Türks first thing they wanted from Sultan was the seperation of their church from the greeks, something happened and they are gone and became Greeks in Greece, we are not going to Greece to convert them to Turkishness but still some pricks attacking us with lies!

Nobody still knows for sure who were Karamanli people. There are only theories.
According to some they are part of Cappadocian Greeks, according to others what you said.

[Mehmet]

Many people who are "Turkish" probably have no Turkic blood, just as not all Americans have English blood.

You have on average around 9-10% East Asian/Siberian input in Turkey.

[Elms]

How far back can you trace this ancestor? Are they a great-grandparent?

[DarkSecret]

Your ancestors were probably Turkified Greek-Turkic-Anatolids.... Ottomans didn't use surnames but they did have "titles" which define their family features... Your ancestors must have Bodurogulları(sons of bodur) title because they were a bit short? For example our title was Chechenogulları(sons of Chechen) before the republic(later Ottoman ww1)..After the republic many of them converted to surnames...Ogulları part has mostly gone... Don't mind meralodem she is crazy...

[Dorian]

bodur is just a word describing a characteristic as it was said,you would be a turk if your surname began with something like -mustafa -mohamed + a suffix

[Dorian]

As for the Gagauzs,they are not turkic genetically ,only linguistically.And turkic is is not turkish , there's difference!

[Hayalet]

you would be a turk if your surname began with something like -mustafa -mohamed + a suffix
Funny, I can't think of a Turk who has a surname like that. But what do I know.

[Mehmet]

As for the Gagauzs,they are not turkic genetically ,only linguistically.And turkic is is not turkish , there's difference!

Gagauzs are genetically more Turk than Greek.
They have a Slavic input though; which isn't Turk actually, but not Greek either.

[Dorian]

Funny, I can't think of a Turk who has a surname like that. But what do I know.

Ι don't fuc** know turkish names i just mean a turkish name + suffix

[JQP4545]

Bodur is a turkish surname. I can see people with this name on the internet.

[JQP4545]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_B%25C3%25BCy%25C3%25BCkvafiadis&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dboduri%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D738

[Dorian]

Gagauzs are genetically more Turk than Greek.
They have a Slavic input though; which isn't Turk actually, but not Greek either.

Ι don't even claim they are Greek,in fact they do not seem to be different from their neighbours.

[Insuperable]

Gagauzs are genetically more Turk than Greek.
They have a Slavic input though; which isn't Turk actually, but not Greek either.

Gagauz are the most similar to East Balkan people, quite distant from Turks so they would be closer to Greeks than Turks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqn7iMc2P-yQdEItR3hlYzVVSE5yQjBkUzBzT1E5Ymc#gid=0

[HellLander87]

Funny, I can't think of a Turk who has a surname like that. But what do I know.
mehmetoglu mustafaoglu :p

[Dorian]

Bodur is a turkish surname. I can see people with this name on the internet.

None said the opposite but what you don't seem to understand is that it's a describing a characteristic,it's not a clear name like mustafa+suffix something that would make you son of mustafa,it means that someone of your ancestors was short and it seems quite logical that in ottoman times turkish words was being used by all the people living inside the empire.

[JQP4545]

None said the opposite but what you don't seem to understand is that it's a describing a characteristic,it's not a clear name like mustafa+suffix something that would make you son of mustafa,it means that someone of your ancestors was short and it seems quite logical that in ottoman times turkish words was being used by all the people living inside the empire.

So you are saying that just because it's a Turkish word doesn't mean I'm descended from a Turkish person.

[Dorian]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_B%25C3%25BCy%25C3%25BCkvafiadis&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dboduri%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D738

what's this link?

[Hayalet]

mehmetoglu mustafaoglu :p
Very rare surnames. Bodur is much more common.

[orangepulp]

Ι don't fuc** know turkish names i just mean a turkish name + suffix

There aren't many Turkish surnames with a suffix. The only suffixes I can think of is oglu like Tataroglu meaning the son of Tatar and ci pronounced gi like Ekmekci meaning the person making bread. Not many people in Turkey have last names endings with suffixes.

[Dorian]

So you are saying that just because it's a Turkish word doesn't mean I'm descended from a Turkish person.

Yeah that's what i'm saying.

[JQP4545]

what's this link?

http://www.angelfire.com/rock3/galatasaray/boduri.htm

Someone with the name Boduri

[Dorian]

There aren't many Turkish surnames with a suffix. The only suffixes I can think of is oglu like Tataroglu meaning the son of Tatar and ci pronounced gi like Ekmekci meaning the person making bread. Not many people in Turkey have last names endings with suffixes.

I mean a greek suffix like -eas for example we have many suffixes here,that's what i mean. Onur+eas Onureas son of someone whose first name was onur

[Dorian]

http://www.angelfire.com/rock3/galatasaray/boduri.htm

Someone with the name Boduri

first name..what you can not understand?how many times i have to tell you?are you a troll or something?

[JQP4545]

That's his nickname. So someone could take the name "son of shorty".

[Dorian]

as for Nikola Büyükvafiadis he was probably a Greek like this footballer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefter_K%C3%BC%C3%A7%C3%BCkandonyadis

[Dorian]

both of these footballers have greek names and greek surnames plus a turkish nickname...kucuk means little,i don't know about buyuk

[ZephyrousMandaru]

My Y-Haplogroup is I2a2b (M423) and my male lineage goes back to Greece. However, my surname has a Turkish word origin and my male line originates in Smyrna (Greeks). My question is what ethnicity do I descend from? Could it be Turkish? I noticed that Eastern Turkey has high levels of this haplogroup.

Eastern Turkey? Are you sure you're not referring to Western Turkey?

[ZephyrousMandaru]

You could be part Kurdish or Armenian or even Assyrian (or all three of them)

What's your surname?

No he can't, I2a2b has not been observed in Assyrians. Also, the Assyrian presence in Turkey is limited to Southeastern Turkey only.

[JQP4545]

both of these footballers have greek names and greek surnames plus a turkish nickname...kucuk means little,i don't know about buyuk

Do you not understand what I am saying??? There is such a name as Bodur...So all I am saying is someone could take on the name Bodur.

[Dorian]

That's his nickname. So someone could take the name "son of shorty".

OMG you don't want to understand or you just can't!

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Well on GEDMatch I consistently show 8-12% of some Caucasus region ethnicity; either Lezgin or Georgian.

That's within the median range for most Europeans.

[HellLander87]

Guys about I2a2b.Many Greeks from mainlaind and islands have gone to the west coast of Minor Asia at Ottoman years.It was a rather developed and cosmopolitan region for ottoman standards

[JQP4545]

Eastern Turkey? Are you sure you're not referring to Western Turkey?

All I want to know is if my Greek-Turkish origin surname reflects ancestry from someone who is not Greek? So, since I2 is found in Turkified Kurds could I be descended from one?

[Dorian]

Do you not understand what I am saying??? There is such a name as Bodur...So all I am saying is someone could take on the name Bodur.

It's a nickname yeah and what?and the footballer you sent as an example was also of Greek descent!

[JQP4545]

Guys about I2a2b.Many Greeks from mainlaind and islands have gone to the west coast of Minor Asia at Ottoman years.It was a rather developed and cosmopolitan region for ottoman standards

My ancestors came to Greek mainland from Anatolia after the Ottomans invaded in 1453.

[HellLander87]

All I want to know is if my Greek-Turkish origin surname reflects ancestry from someone who is not Greek? So, since I2 is found in Turkified Kurds could I be descended from one?
You got the answer many times man,wtf?.Surnames like yours are not connected with ancestry.you may be a turk you may not but this has nothing to do with your surname.

[JQP4545]

It's a nickname yeah and what?and the footballer you sent as an example was also of Greek descent!

Omg just forget it. You were saying Bodur could not be a surname. I am saying yes it could because many people on the net have this name. So what if he is of Greek descent its still a Turkish name. Some people in America have English names who are not of English descent. Does that mean the name is not an English name?

[Dorian]

All I want to know is if my Greek-Turkish origin surname reflects ancestry from someone who is not Greek? So, since I2 is found in Turkified Kurds could I be descended from one?

ok i get this but i don't know much about haplogroups,the others will answer to this.I just wanted to clear that your surname doesn't make your ancestor with this characteristic necessarily a turk!

[orangepulp]

All I want to know is if my Greek-Turkish origin surname reflects ancestry from someone who is not Greek? So, since I2 is found in Turkified Kurds could I be descended from one?
Your results look very standard Greek.

East_European 17.71%
Paleo_Mediterranean 22.29%
Iberian 11.61%
Caucasian 10.52%
Uralic_Permic 2.06%
Balto_Finnic 4.62%
Paleo_Balkanic 2.06%
Celto_Germanic 25.67%
Paleo_North_European 0.58%
South_Central_Asian 2.04%
Volga_Uralic 0.83%
Altaic_Turkic

[JQP4545]

https://www.google.com/#q=bodur

Just look at all the people who come up who are Turkish.

[Dorian]

Omg just forget it. You were saying Bodur could not be a surname. I am saying yes it could because many people on the net have this name. So what if he is of Greek descent its still a Turkish name. Some people in America have English names who are not of English descent. Does that mean the name is not an English name?

I didn't say this surname does not exist in turkey,i said this word it's not a fuc**** first name like james or nick

[JQP4545]

Your results look very standard Greek.

East_European 17.71%
Paleo_Mediterranean 22.29%
Iberian 11.61%
Caucasian 10.52%
Uralic_Permic 2.06%
Balto_Finnic 4.62%
Paleo_Balkanic 2.06%
Celto_Germanic 25.67%
Paleo_North_European 0.58%
South_Central_Asian 2.04%
Volga_Uralic 0.83%
Altaic_Turkic

Omg people, I'm trying to figure out if the ancestor who carried my name 500 years ago was Turkish. This wouldn't show up on an autosomal test.

[Dorian]

:picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1: :picard1:

[Insuperable]

All I want to know is if my Greek-Turkish origin surname reflects ancestry from someone who is not Greek? So, since I2 is found in Turkified Kurds could I be descended from one?

Not sure if slow or just trolling. Kurdish I2a1b clade is not the same as that from Europe if you are I2a1b of course. If you are really I2a2b according to latest nomenclature the same can be said, since there is no I2a2b in Kurds.
Now do you want me repeat this again or draw it for you?

[HellLander87]

My ancestors came to Greek mainland from Anatolia after the Ottomans invaded in 1453.
I do not know any Greek who can trace his ancestry that far back. lol you are troll.Since when the ottomans came you left how can you be a turk.:D

[JQP4545]

I do not know any Greek who can trace his ancestry that far back. lol you are troll.Since when the ottomans came you left how can you be a turk.:D

The Turkish culture spread in to Anatolia hundreds of years before the fall of Constantinople.

[Dorian]

I do not know any Greek who can trace his ancestry that far back. lol you are troll.Since when the ottomans came you left how can you be a turk.:D

Yeah i think this too! he's probably a turkish troll..

[JQP4545]

Yeah i think this too! he's probably a turkish troll..

Someone wrote a book about my family surname, so no I'm not a troll.

[Dorian]

Ok it's obvious now!

[JQP4545]

Not sure if slow or just trolling. Kurdish I2a1b clade is not the same as that from Europe if you are I2a1b of course. If you are really I2a2b according to latest nomenclature the same can be said, since there is no I2a2b in Kurds.
Now do you want me repeat this again or draw it for you?

Right I got that, I was just saying that was the original question.

[orangepulp]

Omg people, I'm trying to figure out if the ancestor who carried my name 500 years ago was Turkish. This wouldn't show up on an autosomal test.
So you think you have this surname since 500 years!

Btw, I saw your other results by chance


K12
South Asian -
Caucasus 13.62%
Southwest Asian 1.28%
Mediterranean 16.98%
West African 0.97%
Volga-Ural 8.88%
South Baltic 10.91%
Western European 24.88%
North Sea 22.49%

K12b
Western European 34.32%
West Central Asian 2.41%
South Asian 0.25%
West African 1.18%
Caucasus 13.48%
Finnish 4.91%
Mediterranean 19.13%
Southwest Asian 1.75%
North European 22.56%

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83876-Post-your-Eurogenes-k12-amp-K12b-results/page3&p=2073488#post2073488

Your West Asian isn't that high for an Anatolian Greek. Anatolian Greeks would most probably score higher West Asian components. I don't think you have any recent Anatolian ancestry. You look like a mainland Greek.

[Dorian]

Someone wrote a book about my family surname, so no I'm not a troll.

Is this book saying your ancestors were turks?if yes then why you come here and ask such a question if you already know what your ancestors were?

[JQP4545]

So you think you have this surname since 500 years!

Btw, I saw your other results by chance


K12
South Asian -
Caucasus 13.62%
Southwest Asian 1.28%
Mediterranean 16.98%
West African 0.97%
Volga-Ural 8.88%
South Baltic 10.91%
Western European 24.88%
North Sea 22.49%

K12b
Western European 34.32%
West Central Asian 2.41%
South Asian 0.25%
West African 1.18%
Caucasus 13.48%
Finnish 4.91%
Mediterranean 19.13%
Southwest Asian 1.75%
North European 22.56%

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?83876-Post-your-Eurogenes-k12-amp-K12b-results/page3&p=2073488#post2073488

Your West Asian isn't that high for an Anatolian Greek. Anatolian Greeks would most probably score higher West Asian components. I don't think you have any recent Anatolian ancestry. You look like a mainland Greek.

I'm only a quarter Greek.

[JQP4545]

Is this book saying your ancestors were turks?if yes then why you come here and ask such a question if you already know what your ancestors were?

No they were Greeks as far as I know, but perhaps I'm descended from a Turk. You can't tell me there was no mixing of people back then.

[orangepulp]

I'm only a quarter Greek.

Now this changes things.
Whats the rest of your ancestry?

[Insuperable]

deleted

[Dorian]

:picard1:

[HellLander87]

jqp4545 considering with great attentiveness all the data you provided ,I hate to tell you that you are a turko-gypsy mongrel lol .it is clear that your ancestors hail from the eurasian steppes and you have little if any european blood.Do you want now to start considering from scratch if you have any Greek ancestors?
haha man .actually you trolled bad so you don't get any respect for that lol

[JQP4545]

From wikipedia:

With the Turkic expansion during Early Middle Ages (c. 6th–11th centuries), peoples speaking Turkic languages spread across Central Asia, covering a vast geographical region stretching from Siberia to Europe and the Mediterranean. The Seljuqs of the Oghuz Turks, in particular, brought their language, Oghuz Turkic—the direct ancestor of today's Turkish language—into Anatolia during the 11th century.[15] Also during the 11th century, an early linguist of the Turkic languages, Mahmud al-Kashgari from the Kara-Khanid Khanate, published the first comprehensive Turkic language dictionary and map of the geographical distribution of Turkic speakers in the Compendium of the Turkic Dialects (Ottoman Turkish: Divânü Lügati't-Türk).[16]

[JQP4545]

My paternal descent is Greek, but I want to know if I'm descended from a Turk. Or people with the Turkish/Islamic culture.

[Mehmet]

Gagauz are the most similar to East Balkan people, quite distant from Turks so they would be closer to Greeks than Turks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqn7iMc2P-yQdEItR3hlYzVVSE5yQjBkUzBzT1E5Ymc#gid=0

How are they similar to Greeks? Do they have the same Euro/North African ratio?
They are definitely closer to Turks.

200.000 Slavicized, Christianized Turks would not weigh a lot for Turkey (+ 55 mil. ethnic Turks in mainland Turkey only) but it seems that'd very important for Greeks.

How many Gagauz in Greece? 25.000 maybe?

[JQP4545]

jqp4545 considering with great attentiveness all the data you provided ,I hate to tell you that you are a turko-gypsy mongrel lol .it is clear that your ancestors hail from the eurasian steppes and you have little if any european blood.Do you want now to start considering from scratch if you have any Greek ancestors?
haha man .actually you trolled bad so you don't get any respect for that lol

How did I troll? All I want to know is if I could be descended from a Turkish man? My ancestors were in Anatolia for hundreds of years with Seljuk Turks before they left, so its certainly possible.

[Dorian]

No they were Greeks as far as I know, but perhaps I'm descended from a Turk. You can't tell me there was no mixing of people back then.

Yeah don't you know?Back then the conquered married the conquerors.

[Dorian]

How did I troll? All I want to know is if I could be descended from a Turkish man? My ancestors were in Anatolia for hundreds of years with Seljuk Turks before they left, so its certainly possible.

[JQP4545]

Yeah don't you know?Back then the conquered married the conquerors.

Seems possible, there was mixing between Native Americans and Spanish, French, etc...

[Dorian]

How did I troll? All I want to know is if I could be descended from a Turkish man? My ancestors were in Anatolia for hundreds of years with Seljuk Turks before they left, so its certainly possible.

It's a 0.1% possibility!

[JQP4545]

It's a 0.1% possibility!
Are you on steroids or something? Calm down...

[Dorian]

Seems possible, there was mixing between Native Americans and Spanish, French, etc...

*Raping not mixing,something that it is found via DNA,if you are a turk will tell it the experts here!

[Dorian]

And there is no connection between the seljuk you claim with the later turkified kurds you said.If you want a non-Greek ancestor let it be a kurd then.

[orangepulp]

*Raping not mixing,something that it is found via DNA,if you are a turk will tell it the experts here!

If Turks really did rape Greeks how come there is no Turkic admixture in Greeks genetic breakdown?

[Insuperable]

How are they similar to Greeks? Do they have the same Euro/North African ratio?
They are definitely closer to Turks.

200.000 Slavicized, Christianized Turks would not weigh a lot for Turkey (+ 55 mil. ethnic Turks in mainland Turkey only) but it seems that'd very important for Greeks.

How many Gagauz in Greece? 25.000 maybe?

Gagauz are mostly Eastern Balkanians with probably minor Turkish influence which can be seen through some atypical haplotypes according to some paper. So they might be more Turk than Greek in such a way if that is what you have in mind. They feel close to Turks anyway.

[Dorian]

If Turks really did rape Greeks how come there is no Turkic admixture in Greeks genetic breakdown?

We say the same thing kardes.I mean it was the Europeans who raped the Native Americans ;)

[MfA_]

JQP4545 is there any future plans for sünnet?

http://www.hilalorganizasyon.com/images/taht/sunnet-organizasyonu-buyuk.jpg

[Mehmet]

Gagauz are mostly Eastern Balkanians with probably minor Turkish influence which can be seen through some atypical haplotypes according to some paper. So they might be more Turk than Greek in such a way if that is what you have in mind. They feel close to Turks anyway.

They are closest to Bulgarians judging from their look; but not Greek.

[JQP4545]

:mad:

[orangepulp]

We say the same thing kardes.I mean it was the Europeans who raped the Native Americans ;)

If you referring to the other way around still not sensible. Anatolian Turkish DNA does not exhibit anything Greek. In fact Western Turks are the most heavily Turkic influenced. Also if rape occurred admixture effect would have to show in both ethnicities, not just one side.

[Dorian]

You sent me something in private about your family's history.In fact there is a possibility that your family was one of the families who moved to Greece in order to settle and replace the expelled non-Greeks.HellLander can help you with this i think!

[JQP4545]

You sent me something in private about your family's history.In fact there is a possibility that your family was one of the families who moved to Greece in order to settle and replace the expelled non-Greeks.HellLander can help you with this i think!

HellLander?

[Dorian]

If you referring to the other way around still not sensible. Anatolian Turkish DNA does not exhibit anything Greek. In fact Western Turks are the most heavily Turkic influenced. Also if rape occurred admixture effect would have to show in both ethnicities, not just one side.

You said there is no Turkic admixture in Greeks genetic breakdown?
I just mean that i agree with that.Nothing more!

[orangepulp]

You said there is no Turkic admixture in Greeks genetic breakdown?
I just mean that i agree with that.Nothing more!

Which proves Turks did not rape.

[orangepulp]

Stop with the disgusting insults people.

This goes especially to Dorian and Mehmet

I will delete the insulting posts.

[Dorian]

Which proves Turks did not rape.

Yeah that's what i meant!

[JQP4545]

You sent me something in private about your family's history.In fact there is a possibility that your family was one of the families who moved to Greece in order to settle and replace the expelled non-Greeks.HellLander can help you with this i think!

So you are saying my ancestors were Greeks who replaced the Venetians?

[Dorian]

So you are saying my ancestors were Greeks who replaced the Venetians?

I don't know if it's about the same times and if your family was one of them,but if it is they replaced the avaro-slavs.I just don't know about this topic,this is why i told you to ask HellLander87!

[Shah-Jehan]

You're as Turkic as I am, I can claim descent from the Mughal clans...

[ZephyrousMandaru]

All I want to know is if my Greek-Turkish origin surname reflects ancestry from someone who is not Greek? So, since I2 is found in Turkified Kurds could I be descended from one?

It's possible your ancestor could have undergone Turkification, and part of that process was abandoning their family surnames for a Turkish one. So while you may have a Turkish surname, you may not have any Turkish ancestors at all. That depends entirely on what your genetic ancestry is. Since your Middle Eastern admixture is very low, it's difficult to know whether or not your ancestor is a Turkified Kurd.

8-12% West Asian ancestry is what most Europeans score anyway, aside from some Southern European populations. And it isn't recent either, it dates back to the Neolithic period.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

https://www.google.com/#q=bodur

Just look at all the people who come up who are Turkish.

Jesus H. Christ! You're not Turkish, or a Turkified Kurd. Get the hell over it already.

[Shah-Jehan]

Jesus H. Christ! You're not Turkish, or a Turkified Kurd. Get the hell over it already.

Yeah, surnames don't mean much...my paternally inherited surname is Arabic, I am obviously not an Arab:laugh:

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Omg people, I'm trying to figure out if the ancestor who carried my name 500 years ago was Turkish. This wouldn't show up on an autosomal test.

Why the hell does it even matter? It's just one ancestor, and unless you have a confirmed genealogical paper trail tracing back to one or more Turkish and/or Kurdish ancestors. You'll never know, sorry, that's life.

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Someone wrote a book about my family surname, so no I'm not a troll.

Someone wrote book about Harry Potter too, therefore wizards must exist.

[JQP4545]

Why the hell does it even matter? It's just one ancestor, and unless you have a confirmed genealogical paper trail tracing back to one or more Turkish and/or Kurdish ancestors. You'll never know, sorry, that's life.

Why are you posting of this forum if you don't want to answer my question? No need to insult me...:mad:

[ZephyrousMandaru]

Why are you posting of this forum if you don't want to answer my question? No need to insult me...:mad:

Because you keep repeating the same stupid ass question over and over again, as if it hasn't been addressed. Not only that, but throughout this thread you've answered your own questions.

[Sikeliot]

JQP4545 don't listen to Zephyrous, he insults everyone.

[Shah-Jehan]

JQP4545 don't listen to Zephyrous, he insults everyone.

That wasn't really an insult tbh...

[ZephyrousMandaru]

JQP4545 don't listen to Zephyrous, he insults everyone.

I don't insult everyone, only the cognitively challenged.