Transylvania Demographics

[Vlach]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40960&d=1385735984 1880 map

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40961&d=1385736254 1910 map

[Kastrioti1443]

What are you posting here subhuman brown shit, it is well known that Transilvania is Hungarian and does not belong to vlachic subhumans like you.

[InperatoreBT]

By ''Romanian'' you mean gypsy? Why do you guys constantly deny that you are gypsies non europan monglers. I've seen your pic and you seem pretty much non europan. Romania is a gypsy land.

[Vlach]

What are you posting here subhuman brown shit, it is well known that Transilvania is Hungarian and does not belong to vlachic subhumans like you.

Go fuck yourself racist shit. Go and work for 1 euro per day in Italy and stfu.

[Vlach]

By ''Romanian'' you mean gypsy? Why do you guys constantly deny that you are gypsies non europan monglers. I've seen your pic and you seem pretty much non europan. Romania is a gypsy land.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eqhQhrOT-Ck/UAAA-9E-B0I/AAAAAAAAABc/o-4yE8Ou6i4/s1600/europe-eyes-general--lig.png

And a gypsy is way better than a muslim browny shit like you

[Kastrioti1443]

Go fuck yourself racist shit. Go and work for 1 euro per day in Italy and stfu.

Lol the romanian son of whore speaking about working for 1 euro ahahahaha, maybe one of your sister or whore cousins is getting fucked or gang banged for 1 euro in Italy.

[Kastrioti1443]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eqhQhrOT-Ck/UAAA-9E-B0I/AAAAAAAAABc/o-4yE8Ou6i4/s1600/europe-eyes-general--lig.png

And a gypsy is way better than a muslim browny shit like you

Brown dwarf romanian, who takes pride in his blue eyes looool:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png

[InperatoreBT]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eqhQhrOT-Ck/UAAA-9E-B0I/AAAAAAAAABc/o-4yE8Ou6i4/s1600/europe-eyes-general--lig.png

And a gypsy is way better than a muslim browny shit like you

Lol, I'm not even a muslim you fucking ugly piece of swine.

Romania is known by their gypsy heritage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQtEhDPFS4k

Is this your wedding you gypsy subhuman.

[rhiannon]

By ''Romanian'' you mean gypsy? Why do you guys constantly deny that you are gypsies non europan monglers. I've seen your pic and you seem pretty much non europan. Romania is a gypsy land.I worked pretty closely and wrote a research paper with a Romanian Physician who came originally from Transylvania. Had a great accent!!

He was definitely not a Gypsy lol. He was Jewish, though. if that matters at all. Fantastic human being I owe a great debt of gratitude to. I am a published author (second author) because of him:thumb001:

[Vlach]

Lol the romanian son of whore speaking about working for 1 euro ahahahaha, maybe one of your sister or whore cousins is getting fucked or gang banged for 1 euro in Italy.

http://www.indexmundi.com/albania/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html
http://www.indexmundi.com/romania/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html

Romania gdp/capita: 13,000
Gypolbania gdp/capita: 8,200


:picard2:

[Vlach]

Lol, I'm not even a muslim you fucking ugly piece of swine.

Romania is known by their gypsy heritage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQtEhDPFS4k

Is this your wedding you gypsy subhuman.

Gypsies are just only 3,2/pop in Romania. ;)

[blogen]

Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Geographical Institute, Research Centre for Astronomy and Earth Sciences - Ethnic map of the Carpatho-Pannonian area: (http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/karpat-pannon/tartalom.html) 1495,
1784, 1880, 1910, 1930, 1941, 1960, 1990, 2001

[Kastrioti1443]

http://www.indexmundi.com/albania/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html
http://www.indexmundi.com/romania/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html

Romania gdp/capita: 13,000
Gypolbania gdp/capita: 8,200



:picard2:


Romanians, the prostitute nation of europe, biggest industry of the country, selling whores

[Zaycev]

I worked pretty closely and wrote a research paper with a Romanian Physician who came originally from Transylvania. Had a great accent!!

He was definitely not a Gypsy lol. He was Jewish, though. if that matters at all. Fantastic human being I owe a great debt of gratitude to. I am a published author (second author) because of him:thumb001:

u probs had sex with him too

[InperatoreBT]

I worked pretty closely and wrote a research paper with a Romanian Physician who came originally from Transylvania. Had a great accent!!

He was definitely not a Gypsy lol. He was Jewish, though. if that matters at all. Fantastic human being I owe a great debt of gratitude to. I am a published author (second author) because of him:thumb001:

If he was not gypsy, he wasn't Romanian. Romanian means Gypsy, Roma people. He was probably romanized Slav, while 90% percent of Romanians are gypsies.

[Vlach]

Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Geographical Institute, Research Centre for Astronomy and Earth Sciences - Ethnic map of the Carpatho-Pannonian area: (http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/karpat-pannon/tartalom.html) 1495,
1784, 1880, 1910, 1930, 1941, 1960, 1990, 2001

http://i59.tinypic.com/30k5c12.png

[Insuperable]

Why is demographics important when it was under Hungarians for one Millenium, until Trianon?

[Vlach]

Why is demographics important when it was under Hungarians for one Millenium, until Trianon?

Transylvania after 1600 was indepdent and in Austrian empire, i dont know what the fuck are you talking about...
And nowadays the demographic is more important, we are not in middle ages :picard2:

[rhiannon]

u probs had sex with him too
dafuq??

Er. No. He was well into his 60s and happily married. I was assisting him in his practice during my med school years. We wrote a research paper together. No hanky panky involved LOL

[rhiannon]

If he was not gypsy, he wasn't Romanian. Romanian means Gypsy, Roma people. He was probably romanized Slav, while 90% percent of Romanians are gypsies.
Ok.
I can buy the romanized Slav part. He did not look Roma at all, though.

[Zaycev]

dafuq??

Er. No. He was well into his 60s and happily married. I was assisting him in his practice during my med school years. We wrote a research paper together. No hanky panky involved LOL

Sure.
lol

[rhiannon]

Sure.
lol

Why are you being like that?
Trolling?

I didn't bang the guy already.

[Zaycev]

Why are you being like that?
Trolling?

I didn't bang the guy already.

of course you didn't - a guy is the one who bangs, not the female :D

[rhiannon]

of course you didn't - a guy is the one who bangs, not the female :DTrue lol.
Ok. He didn't bang me.
Better now?

[Zaycev]

Absolutely

[blogen]

http://i59.tinypic.com/30k5c12.png

1241 :lol00002:

[blogen]

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4602/ipd7.jpg

source: Ethnic Process int the Carpatho-Pannonian Area (http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/etnika/)

[blogen]

Transylvania after 1600 was indepdent and in Austrian empire, i dont know what the fuck are you talking about...
And nowadays the demographic is more important, we are not in middle ages :picard2:

Transsylvania were never independent, but you are a fuckind dumb Moldavian settlers only with zero knowledge about the Transylvanian history. :yawnee20:

[Vlach]

Transsylvania were never independent, but you are a fuckind dumb Moldavian settlers only with zero knowledge about the Transylvanian history. :yawnee20:

IDIOT, Partium was only for W and N-W Transylvania. Learn history wikipedia boy.


1241 :lol00002:

What? we was the majority :thumb001:

[Insuperable]

Transylvania after 1600 was indepdent and in Austrian empire, i dont know what the fuck are you talking about...
And nowadays the demographic is more important, we are not in middle ages :picard2:

Ottomans and Habsburgs fucked things up when it comes to Transylvania. Later it became again part of Hungary, only to be taken away after Trianon.

[blogen]

IDIOT, Partium was only for W and N-W Transylvania. Learn history wikipedia boy.

You are the Stears of the Romanians in here. You are dumb and ignorant with zero knowledge.


What? we was the majority :thumb001:

In your lunatic dreams maybe, but not in the reality. Maybe the first Vlachs may have arrived then into the area...

[blogen]

Ottomans and Habsburgs fucked things up when it comes to Transylvania. Later it became again part of Hungary, only to be taken away after Trianon.

Transylvania was never part of Hungary before 1867! Transylvania was a principalty (vajdaság) of the Hungarian Kingdom, but not part of Hungary!

[blogen]

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5012/r6s.gif
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4638/gtx.gif

source: Ethnic Process int the Carpatho-Pannonian Area (http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/etnika/)

[Vlach]

You are the Stears of the Romanians in here. You are dumb and ignorant with zero knowledge.



In your lunatic dreams maybe, but not in the reality. Maybe the first Vlachs may have arrived then into the area...

Hypocrite wikipedia kid. These are english sources idiot. I know this fact is uncool for you but thats the history.

Do you need wikipedia soruces to believe me?

"Initially Partium consisted of the counties of Máramaros (Maramureş), Middle Szolnok (Közép-Szolnok/Şolnocul de Mijloc), Kraszna (Crasna), and Bihar (Bihor), as well as the Kővár region (Kővár vidéke). The Banate of Severin (Szörény/Banatul Severinului) and eastern Zaránd (Zarand), that were already part of John II Sigismund’s realm, were also included in what was named Partium. These territories were ruled by Transylvania, but were not formally part of the Principality (later Grand Principality) of Transylvania, and so the name Partium was coined."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Partium1570.PNG

[blogen]

I tried to explain to you many times the legal status of Transylvania in the Hungarian Kingdom under the Hungarian Crown between the 16th and the 19th century. But you are so stupid how you cannot learn (and you do not understand the European things, since you are a Moldavian only), so I do not deal with you because of this. :D

[Vlach]

I tried to explain to you many times the legal status of Transylvania in the Hungarian Kingdom under the Hungarian Crown between the 16th and the 19th century. But you are so stupid how you cannot learn (and you do not understand the European things, since you are a Moldavian only), so I do not deal with you because of this. :D

Hypocrite level=100%. Stupid kid read what wikipedia say. Go to bed you are tired. You dont have any argue. ONLY THE WEST AND N TRANS WAS UNDER BOZGORIAN CROWN IDIOT, the biggest part of Transylvania was a indepdent country.

[blogen]

Hypocrite level=100%. Stupid kid read what wikipedia say. Go to bed you are tired. You dont have any argue. ONLY THE WEST AND N TRANS WAS UNDER BOZGORIAN CROWN IDIOT, the biggest part of Transylvania was a indepdent country.

Your ignorance is your problem, but presumably I am two times older than you...

[Vlach]

Your ignorance is your problem, but presumably I am two times older than you...

Ignorance? You are incredible.
"The younger Stephen Báthory, the first powerful prince of independent Transylvania"
I am the one what do not have any argue any source just saying bullshits. Did you shit your pants?

[Szegedist]

I worked pretty closely and wrote a research paper with a Romanian Physician who came originally from Transylvania. Had a great accent!!

He was definitely not a Gypsy lol. He was Jewish, though. if that matters at all. Fantastic human being I owe a great debt of gratitude to. I am a published author (second author) because of him:thumb001:

Jews from Transylvania are 'Hungarian Jews'

[Szegedist]

Hypocrite level=100%. Stupid kid read what wikipedia say. Go to bed you are tired. You dont have any argue. ONLY THE WEST AND N TRANS WAS UNDER BOZGORIAN CROWN IDIOT, the biggest part of Transylvania was a indepdent country.

Little moldavian transplant, please do not speak about things you have no understanding of. Transylvania was a Hungarian principality, end of. :bored:

[Szegedist]

Ignorance? You are incredible.
"The younger Stephen Báthory, the first powerful prince of independent Transylvania"
I am the one what do not have any argue any source just saying bullshits. Did you shit your pants?

Mr Wikipedia man to the rescue.


You always cry about others using Wikipedia, when you use it 24/7. Is this romani-an "honour"?

[InperatoreBT]

Why are you being like that?
Trolling?

I didn't bang the guy already.

Do not take him wrong, that is how gypsy fyromians treat women.

[Szegedist]

Trying to debate with Velaxa is like trying to debate with a retarded down syndromed kid.

Oh wait, its EXACTLY like trying to debate with a retarded kid.

[Vlach]

Little moldavian transplant, please do not speak about things you have no understanding of. Transylvania was a Hungarian principality, end of. :bored:

Stupid ugly red head homosexual student. You dont have any argument and you are butthurt.


Mr Wikipedia man to the rescue.


You always cry about others using Wikipedia, when you use it 24/7. Is this romani-an "honour"?

Ugly redhead gay shit I use wikipedia when idiots like you and blogen do not trust me. Mister "romania lost WW1 in 1916" and " the whole Transylvania was under Partium =))) "

[blogen]

Ignorance? You are incredible.
"The younger Stephen Báthory, the first powerful prince of independent Transylvania"
I am the one what do not have any argue any source just saying bullshits. Did you shit your pants?

Yes, you are the ignorant, but this is unambiguous. You do not understand fundamental things. For example you believe it that arbitrary independence (a state proclaims his independence) existed before the modernity (French revolution). The "independent Transylvania" is your silly anachronism only. Nobody knew about things like this from among the former contemporaries. The principalty was the kingdom's property, all former contemporaries knew this, the prince too and all treaty declared this fact. For example the Treaty of Vienna (1606). And the Hungarian king acknowledged the Transylvanian's right of the election of their prince in the convention of Nagyszombat (1615) for example. But you do not know the principalty's history.

And you quotation here the wikipedia, not me. I refer to the Hungarian Academy of Science's geographical research institute or to the fundamental historical study (http://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/).

[Szegedist]

:laugh:

[Kiyant]

Velaxa, the result of the infamous "Ceausescu orphanages".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_orphans

Sadly because of this, there are many romani-an retards roaming forums and posting their crap,

WTF????????????????????

[Szegedist]

WTF????????????????????
Another issue

Do Romanian schools produce idiots?

ONE in two teenagers failed the Baccalaureate exam in Romania this year after 12 years of study. This means that another more than one hundred thousand young people could end up unemployed, hurting the country’s already fragile economy.

Those who pass the Baccalaureate exam have two options: leave the country for one of the first-class universities in the western world (if they can afford it) or stay in Romania and face a poor education system.

Many of these thousands of smart youngsters who emigrate for better education remain abroad after graduation, get a job and live as immigrants for the rest of their lives. The brain drain phenomenon has been developing in Romania especially since the country joined the European Union. University fees were significantly reduced for Romanian students and work permits could be obtained more easily.

Emigrants who return to Romania after graduation and get a job are usually overqualified compared to other entry-level colleagues. Their income is lower than what they expected. Some of them eventually return to the west.

Paradoxically, Romania is also the country where some of the most brilliant young brains in the world are born. Here the rate of gifted children is twice the average worldwide. In July, the country was ranked first in Europe at the International Math Olympics and 10th among 100 countries worldwide. Some of the most feared hackers in the world are operating in Romania. Corporations like Microsoft have a big community of Romanians among their workforce and they keep recruiting more.

Most of these achievements seem to be the result of the hard work of individuals combined sometimes with the influence of a great teacher rather than the result of a proficient education system. Not one of Romania's universities are ranked among the top 500.

After the collapse of communism, Romania faced an education crisis that it has not tackled yet. Since 1989, the minister of education has been changed 19 times. Each of these ministers argued vehemently for reform, but their different visions only created confusion. One of the reasons for their failure is that education in Romania has never been properly financed. Its budget has been dropping to just 3.6% of GDP this year, while the average European rate is 5% of GDP.

Corruption also invaded the education system, as bribes became promotion tools for many students. Poverty is another scourge: the number of children who dropped out school tripled between 2000 and 2007 according to UNICEF. The financial crisis in 2008 made this worse. Budget cuts shut down schools in rural areas, making it hard for children living in isolated villages to reach school. Earning less than €400 monthly, many highly ranked teachers left the system and were often replaced by under-qualified beginners.

While the state-funded system is facing financial problems, some private universities in Romania are making a huge profit. Also known as “diploma factories”, these institutions are enrolling a large number of students each year. The quality of education in these private establishments is usually even lower than in the state system. Many of their graduates end up unemployed.

So when it comes to education, what can the young Romanian generation hope for? Not much, it seems. The current prime minister was found guilty of plagiarising his PhD thesis and the country’s suspended president once said that “the Romanian school produces idiots”.



http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/08/education-romania

[Vlach]

Yes, you are the ignorant, but this is unambiguous. You do not understand fundamental things. For example you believe it that arbitrary independence (a state proclaims his independence) existed before the modernity (French revolution). The "independent Transylvania" is your silly anachronism only. Nobody knew about things like this from among the former contemporaries. The principalty was the kingdom's property, all former contemporaries knew this, the prince too and all treaty declared this fact. For example the Treaty of Vienna (1606). And the Hungarian king acknowledged the Transylvanian's right of the election of their prince in the convention of Nagyszombat (1615) for example. But you do not know the principalty's history.

And you quotation here the wikipedia, not me. I refer to the Hungarian Academy of Science's geographical research institute or to the fundamental historical study (http://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/).

You are incredible :picard2:. And wikipedia is way better than bozgorian nationalist academy.

[Vlach]

Paradoxically, Romania is also the country where some of the most brilliant young brains in the world are born. Here the rate of gifted children is twice the average worldwide. In July, the country was ranked first in Europe at the International Math Olympics and 10th among 100 countries worldwide. Some of the most feared hackers in the world are operating in Romania. Corporations like Microsoft have a big community of Romanians among their workforce and they keep recruiting more.

Most of these achievements seem to be the result of the hard work of individuals combined sometimes with the influence of a great teacher rather than the result of a proficient education system. Not one of Romania's universities are ranked among the top 500.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/08/education-romania

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2:
Stupid fail trolling :picard2::picard2::picard2: =)))) Are you retarded? Yes you are. Subhuman red head homosexual ugly bitch =))

[Kiyant]

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2:
Stupid fail trolling :picard2::picard2::picard2: =)))) Are you retarded? Yes you are. Subhuman red head homosexual ugly bitch =))

Totally not racist Romanian ladies and gentlemans

[Szegedist]

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2:
Stupid fail trolling :picard2::picard2::picard2: =)))) Are you retarded? Yes you are. Subhuman red head homosexual ugly bitch =))

You have problem with redhaids? Is that because your hair/eyes/skin is darker than my shit? Homosexual? Please post us your photo retarded velaxa :)))
I understand, it must have been difficult to be raised as a retarded transplant in Romania, we are here just to help you.

[blogen]

You are incredible :picard2:. And wikipedia is way better than bozgorian nationalist academy.

This would be simpler if you would write this: No science, I am Romanian!

[Szegedist]

Totally not racist Romanian ladies and gentlemans

"I am not a racist or nationalist Romanian, you bozgorian turkogypsy inferior subhuman!"

[The Illyrian Warrior]

u probs had sex with him too

Learn to have a bit respect with ladies next time, plus she is married women. :tsk:

[Zmey Gorynych]

Why is demographics important when it was under Hungarians for one Millenium, until Trianon?
Following the same logic croatians should've gained independence and have a state of their own because that land was under hungarian/austrian rule for a millenium.
Whether you like it or not Transylvania is romanian and has been inhabited primarily by romanians since the beginning of populations censuses.


http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4602/ipd7.jpg

source: Ethnic Process int the Carpatho-Pannonian Area (http://www.mtafki.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/etnika/)

1241 :lol00002:
Verifiable and impartial sources ma' man and if you don't like 1241 feel free to check thee rest of the timeline.

[Szegedist]

Following the same logic croatians should've gained independence and have a state of their own because that land was under hungarian/austrian rule for a millenium.
Whether you like it or not Transylvania is romanian and has been inhabited primarily by romanians since the beginning of populations censuses.



Verifiable and impartial sources ma' man and if you don't like 1241 feel free to check thee rest of the timeline.


There is a fundamental difference, Croatia was an independent Kingdom BEFORE the Personal Union between Hungary and Croatia.

[Vlach]

"I am not a racist or nationalist Romanian, you bozgorian turkogypsy inferior subhuman!"

I never said the Hungarians are inferior to Romanians. You are inferior to other huumans.


This would be simpler if you would write this: No science, I am Romanian!

I am the retarded one what saying bullshits without arguments? " No, Romanians wasnt the majority in 1241 because aaaa isnt cool for bozgors" " Transylvania was under Partium because aaa... I dont know, I'm a bozgor from Asia"

[Szegedist]

I am the retarded one what saying bullshits without arguments? " No, Romanians wasnt the majority in 1241 because aaaa isnt cool for bozgors" " Transylvania was under Partium because aaa... I dont know, I'm a bozgor from Asia"

THe only person who said that Transylvania was under the Partium is YOU, you moron. Blogen never said such a thing.

[Zmey Gorynych]

There is a fundamental difference, Croatia was an independent Kingdom BEFORE the Personal Union between Hungary and Croatia.
That's completely irrelevant to the point he was making, the issue that he invoked was the irrelevance of demographics and the prolonged rule of a certain entity over a given land and people.

[blogen]

Following the same logic croatians should've gained independence and have a state of their own because that land was under hungarian/austrian rule for a millenium.

Croatia was never under Hungarian rule.

[Vlach]

THe only person who said that Transylvania was under the Partium is YOU, you moron. Blogen never said such a thing.

Not on this thread idiot. Now he searched more on bozgorian academy archives and found more stupid arguments.

[blogen]

I never said the Hungarians are inferior to Romanians. You are inferior to other huumans.
I am the retarded one what saying bullshits without arguments? " No, Romanians wasnt the majority in 1241 because aaaa isnt cool for bozgors" " Transylvania was under Partium because aaa... I dont know, I'm a bozgor from Asia"

A Vlach population did not exist on an area without 11-12th century Vlach origin place-names. The majority of the place-names were Slav and Hungarian. But zero Latin. Sorry, but were these hypothetical 11-12th century Romanians dumb possibly?

[Zmey Gorynych]

Croatia was never under Hungarian rule.
Specifics, formalities ...you may call it a personal union but in fact it was Croatia loosing its independence to Hungary ... a military campaign took place after which the hungarians gained control of Croatia.

[Szegedist]

That's completely irrelevant to the point he was making, the issue that he invoked was the irrelevance of demographics and the prolonged rule of a certain entity over a given land and people.

Romanians have a primitive 18th century racist "unitary indivisible nation state" concept in the 21st century, so it's useless to argue with them about this.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Romanians have a primitive 18th century racist "unitary indivisible nation state" concept in the 21st century, so it's useless to argue with them about this.
You're digressing and talking nonsense in the process but since you opened the subject a nation state is always, but always preferable to an ethnically diverse one.

[blogen]

Specifics, formalities ...you may call it a personal union but in fact it was Croatia loosing its independence to Hungary ... a military campaign took place after which the hungarians gained control of Croatia.

No, not formalities, we never controlled Croatia. Any form of the Hungarian government not existed in Croatia. The Croatians governed themselves, they had a parliament, they had independent army, etc. and the king's substitute (the Croatian ban) represented the king in the country (the nádor/palatine was the Hungarian equivalent). The king was common only.

[Zmey Gorynych]

No, not formalities, we never controlled Croatia. Any form of the Hungarian government not existed in Croatia. The Croatians governed themselves, they had a parliament, they had independent army, etc. and the king's substitute (the Croatian ban) represented the king in the country (the nádor/palatine was the Hungarian equivalent). The king was common only.
So we're talking autonomy/vassalage in the best case scenario. They did not have the right to decide their foreign policy and that's the ultimate prerogative of an independent state.

[Vlach]

A Vlach population did not exist on an area without 11-12th century Vlach origin place-names. The majority of the place-names were Slav and Hungarian. But zero Latin. Sorry, but were these hypothetical 11-12th century Romanians dumb possibly?

Give me good sources... and there was not romanian place-names because the romanians was not nobles.

[Szegedist]

Give me good sources... and there was not romanian place-names because the romanians was not nobles.

villages, etc were named by nobles? Idiot

[Vlach]

villages, etc were named by nobles? Idiot

Lord/nobles

[blogen]

Give me good sources... and there was not romanian place-names because the romanians was not nobles.

Slavs were not nobles too... :D

Basically the origin of the Hungarian toponyms map (Magyar, Magyar/Slav mixed, Slav, Turkic):
http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-004.jpg

And this is the origin of the Romanian toponyms map (Magyar, Slav,, German, Romanian, striped = without Hungarian equivalent):
http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-049.jpg

And the source again (third times maybe): Köpeczi, Béla. History of Transylvania - Columbia University Press, 2001 (http://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/)

[blogen]

So we're talking autonomy/vassalage in the best case scenario. They did not have the right to decide their foreign policy and that's the ultimate prerogative of an independent state.

No, we talking about an independent country with a common king with an other country. The foreign policy is a sovereign right and the privilege of the kings before the modernity. The independence was the inner autonomy of the property. The premodern state was the property of the crowns or other states. For example Croatia was the property of Saint Stephen's Crown and Hungary too, or the Transylvanian principalty was the property of the Hungarian Crown (Hungarian Crown =/= Saint Stephens Crown, Saint Stephen's Crown was the archiregnum's crown after personal union with Croatia. Archiregnum = kingdom over kingdoms).

Archiregnum Hungaricum - the property of Saint Stephen's Crown
- Regnum Hungaricum - the property of the Hungarian Crown
- Regnum Croatorum - the property of the Croatian Crown

Basic medieval European law.

[Vlach]

Slavs were not nobles too... :D

Basically the origin of the Hungarian toponyms map (Magyar, Magyar/Slav mixed, Slav, Turkic):
http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-004.jpg

And this is the origin of the Romanian toponyms map (Magyar, Slav,, German, Romanian, striped = without Hungarian equivalent):
http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-049.jpg

And the source again (third times maybe): Köpeczi, Béla. History of Transylvania - Columbia University Press, 2001 (http://mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/)

Is here and Deva? :rolleyes:
Some dacian fotress: Sucidava, Capidava, Marcodava, Rusidava.
And for exemple Cluj-Napoca, Napoca is dacian name, but the hungarians do not use Napoca, just Koloszvar. That means the hungarians changed the cities/villages names...

[Zmey Gorynych]

No, we talking about an independent country with a common king with an other country. The foreign policy is a sovereign right and the privilege of the kings before the modernity. The independence was the inner autonomy of the property. The premodern state was the property of the crowns or other states. For example Croatia was the property of Saint Stephen's Crown and Hungary too, or the Transylvanian principalty was the property of the Hungarian Crown (Hungarian Crown =/= Saint Stephens Crown, Saint Stephen's Crown was the archiregnum's crown after personal union with Croatia. Archiregnum = kingdom over kingdoms).

Archiregnum Hungaricum - the property of Saint Stephen's Crown
- Regnum Hungaricum - the property of the Hungarian Crown
- Regnum Croatorum - the property of the Croatian Crown

Basic medieval European law.
Exactly, the "independence" of Croatia was an internal one (within the greater kingdom), an institution which can be assimilated to the modern concept of autonomy. Croatia had no foreign policy because this was the prerogative of the hungarian king. Your post is very accurate and underlines the state of croatian dependance. Croatia was not an independent, sovereign country.

[Szegedist]

Is here and Deva? :rolleyes:
Some dacian fotress: Sucidava, Capidava, Marcodava, Rusidava.
And for exemple Cluj-Napoca, Napoca is dacian name, but the hungarians do not use Napoca, just Koloszvar. That means the hungarians changed the cities/villages names...

Liar. In 1974, the Romanian Communist authorities added "-Napoca"
to the city's name as a nationalist gesture, emphasising its" pre-Roman" roots

[Vlach]

Liar. In 1974, the Romanian Communist authorities added "-Napoca"
to the city's name as a nationalist gesture, emphasising its" pre-Roman" roots

Im taling about ancient times and you are talking about Ceausescu :picard2:

[blogen]

Is here and Deva? :rolleyes:
Some dacian fotress: Sucidava, Capidava, Marcodava, Rusidava.
And for exemple Cluj-Napoca, Napoca is dacian name, but the hungarians do not use Napoca, just Koloszvar. That means the hungarians changed the cities/villages names...

:picard1:

The real Romanian name of Kolozsvár (Cluj) for example origin from the Hungarian Kolozs. the Romanians did not call the city Napoca before the twentieth century. The Hungarian kolozs origin from the Slav kluž. The other kolozs/kolos names in Hungary: Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county (area with Slav population likewise in the 11th century) and Kolozsakna in Kolozs county. We renamed nothing, this was the Slav name of the land when we arrived, the local residents called it this. And the local residents were Slavs based on this name.

[blogen]

Exactly, the "independence" of Croatia was an internal one (within the greater kingdom), an institution which can be assimilated to the modern concept of autonomy. Croatia had no foreign policy because this was the prerogative of the hungarian king. Your post is very accurate and underlines the state of croatian dependance. Croatia was not an independent, sovereign country.

:picard1:

All of the European states independence were internal autonomy of the three orders. The European states did not have politics before the modernity, the international politics was the kings' right and the three orders had an internal politics only.

And the Hungarian king never ruled Croatia, Croatia ruled the Croatian king.

[Insuperable]

Specifics, formalities ...you may call it a personal union but in fact it was Croatia loosing its independence to Hungary ... a military campaign took place after which thehungarians gained control of Croatia.

But the closest thing was personal union despite military campaign. It was a common right for Hungarian king of that time to claim a Croatian throne because of various coincidences because of which there was no royal male to claim a throne and because the king was married at the time with a Hungarian princess who was related to Hungarian king. Due to civil war which broke out and Hungarian king's right to claim a throne some noble families of Croatia and Dalmatia offered a throne to Ladislaus. When he took his army to claim what is his, northern Croatia, Slavonia showed no opposition, but southern parts overall were against this campaign. In the meantime Ladislaus withdrew from Croatia because Hungary was under attack from the East and appointed his newphew Almos to take his place. Soon Petar Svacic who was against rose to power by gathering feudal lords, Almos lost his rule and went back to Hungary. When Ladislaus died Coloman took his throne and again marched defeating Svacic and his army near mountain Gvozd, northcentral Croatia. However Coloman new that Dalmatia would be a little harder to conquer so negotiations with feudal lords began and after several years of negotiations they agreed to crown Coloman and based on that and that ome noble families offered a throne and some showed no opposition I can say that in the end of things it was more of a personal union.


Following the same logic croatians should've gained independence and have a state of their own because that land was under hungarian/austrian rule for a millenium.
Whether you like it or not Transylvania is romanian and has been inhabited primarily by romanians since the beginning

It is not the same logic as already explained by Blogen

[Zmey Gorynych]

:picard1:All of the European states independence were internal autonomy of the three orders. The European states did not have politics before the modernity, the international politics was the kings' right and the three orders had an internal politics only.

And the Hungarian king never ruled Croatia, Croatia ruled the Croatian king.
International politics is as old as the state itself (represented by the king, emperor, or some other kind of ruler, doesn't really matter). Seems to me you have a narrow understanding of the term state.
Croatia didn't had a king though, Croatia was ruled by bans who were the representatives of the hungarian king and who were named by the king. Some of those bans weren't croatians but hungarians, even the romanian Iancu de Hunedoara was a ban.


But the closest thing was personal union despite military campaign ... I can say that in the end of things it was more of a personal union.

It is not the same logic as already explained by Blogen
A military campaign is a clear sign of a hostile takeover, the fact that the nobles finally agreed to give away sovereignty in exchange for property rights and tax exemption doesn't make it any less of a takeover. I mean after all what's it to them, croatian or hungarian king as long as they stuff their mouths !?

The Content of Pacta Conventa, the governing document of the hungarian-croatian relationship during the so called personal union. Historians to this day dispute the authenticity of this document just like the nature of hungarian-croatian relationship. Sounds like feudal vassalage to me. So yes ma' man it is the same logic.


The agreement determined that the Croatian nobles who signed the document with king Coloman will retain their possessions and properties without interference. It also granted the mentioned families exemption from tax or tributes to the king. Each of the twelve noble Croatian tribes were obliged to answer the king's call if someone attacked his borders and send at least ten armed horsemen to war, as far as the Drava River (Croatia's northern boundary with Hungary) at their own expense. Beyond that point the Hungarian king paid the expenses.


:picard1:
The real Romanian name of Kolozsvár (Cluj) for example origin from the Hungarian Kolozs. the Romanians did not call the city Napoca before the twentieth century. The Hungarian kolozs origin from the Slav kluž. The other kolozs/kolos names in Hungary: Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county (area with Slav population likewise in the 11th century) and Kolozsakna in Kolozs county. We renamed nothing, this was the Slav name of the land when we arrived, the local residents called it this. And the local residents were Slavs based on this name.
That's only one theory, that Cluj originates from the slavic word "kluč" (key). The other is that it originates from the latin 'clus' (closed) which makes far more sense because Cluj-Napoca is located in valley surrounded by hills.

[Vlach]

:picard1:

The real Romanian name of Kolozsvár (Cluj) for example origin from the Hungarian Kolozs. the Romanians did not call the city Napoca before the twentieth century. The Hungarian kolozs origin from the Slav kluž. The other kolozs/kolos names in Hungary: Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county (area with Slav population likewise in the 11th century) and Kolozsakna in Kolozs county. We renamed nothing, this was the Slav name of the land when we arrived, the local residents called it this. And the local residents were Slavs based on this name.

Are you stupid? The name of the city was Napoca not Kolozs. Hungarians changed the name. And Ceauescu changed in Cluj-Napoca

[blogen]

International politics is as old as the state itself (represented by the king, emperor, or some other kind of ruler, doesn't really matter). Seems to me you have a narrow understanding of the term state.

We talk about the western feudal state. This is not identitcal with the western modern state or othern civilizations feudal state.


Croatia didn't had a king though, Croatia was ruled by bans who were the representatives of the hungarian king and who were named by the king. Some of those bans weren't croatians but hungarians, even the romanian Iancu de Hunedoara was a ban.

The Hungarian king was nobody in Croatia. Croatia ruled the Croatian king.


That's only one theory, that Cluj originates from the slavic word "kluč" (key). The other is that it originates from the latin 'clus' (closed) which makes far more sense because Cluj-Napoca is located in valley surrounded by hills.

The clausus is phonetically inapposite to the kolos. And the kluž (pass, narrows) is nut kluč and this a frequent Hungarian place-name with a Slav origin.

[Vlach]

The clausus is phonetically inapposite to the kolos. And the kluž (pass, narrows) is nut kluč and this a frequent Hungarian place-name with a Slav origin.

And Napoca is Roman place-name with Dacian origin

[blogen]

Are you stupid? The name of the city was Napoca not Kolozs. Hungarians changed the name. And Ceauescu changed in Cluj-Napoca

We conquered the area and we inherited the existing names from the local population. Napoca was not an existing name, this was the local placename: kluž. Why we did not give a Hungarian name to the settlement if we modified anything? You idiot! :picard1:


And Napoca is Roman place-name with Dacian origin

A Romanian placename from the 20th century.

[Vlach]

We conquered the area and we inherited the existing names from the local population. Napoca was not an existing name, this was the local placename: kluž. Why we did not give a Hungarian name to the settlement if we modified anything? You idiot! :picard1:



A Romanian placename from the 20th century.

You are bozgors you dont care about origins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoca
I need to use wikipedia again :(

[blogen]

You are bozgors you dont care about origins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoca
I need to use wikipedia again :(

The Hungarian archaeologist Torma Károly identified the ancient Roman settlement of Napoca with the Roman ruins of Kolozsvár in the Über einige Dacische Inschriften (1865) and Mommsen agreed with this in the Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum (1873). Nobody knew certainly before where was this city, there were various guessing only.

[Zmey Gorynych]

We talk about the western feudal state. This is not identitcal with the western modern state
Yes we don't speak of modern states (and you leave the impression that for you the the state begins with modernity), it was the 12th century after all but that doesn't mean there was no international politics back then ... as i said international relations is as old as the state.


The Hungarian king was nobody in Croatia. Croatia ruled the Croatian king.
I have to repeat myself Croatia didn't have a king of it's own, it was ruled by a ban pretty much like 16th-17th century Transylvania was ruled by a prince who unlike the ban wasn't named by the hungarian king but elected by transylvanian noblemen. The Transylvanian prince also had more prerogatives (including those concerning foreign affairs.

What you're insisting on is nonsense you're talking of a single person who was a hungarian and croatian king at the same time but those two (let's call them offices, positions) had no interconnection whatsoever. It may work in theory or on paper but has nothing to do with reality.


The clausus is phonetically inapposite to the kolos. And the kluž (pass, narrows) is nut kluč and this a frequent Hungarian place-name with a Slav origin.
Who said the 2 words have to be phonetically identical, you want to say that kolozs is phonetically apposite to kluž !? Let me tell you something, it's not. The transition from a language to another always produces alterations especially when we're talking of languages from 2 different linguistic groups.

I speak one slavic language and understand a few others yet I've never heard of the slavic word kluž or something remotely similar, meaning pass or narrows. It's either pereval (russian) or prolaz (serbian), przechodzic (polish), prihravka (czech), propusnica, etc.

[blogen]

Yes we don't speak of modern states (and you leave the impression that for you the the state begins with modernity), it was the 12th century after all but that doesn't mean there was no international politics back then ... as i said international relations is as old as the state.

The international politics cannot be identified with the state. The international politics generally in the course of the history dynastic and not state politics. Especially in the medieval western world.


I have to repeat myself Croatia didn't have a king of it's own

Your ignorance is your problem, but Croatia have only one king: the Croatian king. For example the titles of Lipót I:

Nos Leopoldus divinae favente clementia electus romanorum imperator semper augustus, ac Germaniae, Hungariae, Bohemiae, Dalmatiae, Croatiae, Slavoniaeque rex, archidux Austriae, dux Burgundiae, Styriae, Carinthiae, Carniolae, marchio Moraviae, dux Luxemburgiae, Superioris et Inferioris Silesiae, Wirtenbergae et Thecae, princeps Sveviae, comes Habspurgi, Tyrolis, Ferretis, Kiburgi et Goritiae, landgravius Alsatiae, marchio Sacri Romani Imperii, Burgoviae ac Superioris et Inferioris Lusatiae, dominus Marchiae, Sclavoniae, Portus Naonis et Salinarum.

See, king of Croatia. This was his right to the reign on the Croatian country.


it was ruled by a ban pretty much like 16th-17th century Transylvania was ruled by a prince who unlike the ban wasn't named by the hungarian king but elected by transylvanian noblemen. The Transylvanian prince also had more prerogatives (including those concerning foreign affairs.

What you're insisting on is nonsense you're talking of a single person who was a hungarian and croatian king at the same time but those two (let's call them offices, positions) had no interconnection whatsoever. It may work in theory or on paper but has nothing to do with reality.

This was the reality. One person, two company. Than the contemporary share companies and their directors. Sometimes same person is the director of different companies, but there is not a contact between the companies, except the personal contact, the same director. And this simile is very good, since the feudal right is the basis of the corporate law and every other legal tradition in the western world. The first legal entities were the crowns besides the Church.

But, a common royal court existed in the personalunions for practical reasons. Before 1526 in Buda, after 1526 in Vienna.


Who said the 2 words have to be phonetically identical, you want to say that kolozs is phonetically apposite to kluž !? Let me tell you something, it's not. The transition from a language to another always produces alterations especially when we're talking of languages from 2 different linguistic groups.

I speak one slavic language and understand a few others yet I've never heard of the slavic word kluž or something remotely similar, meaning pass or narrows. It's either pereval (russian) or prolaz (serbian), przechodzic (polish), prihravka (czech), propusnica, etc.

It is not possible to make a Hungarian word from the Latin word with a phonetics like this. This is the problem.

[Vlach]

The Hungarian archaeologist Torma Károly identified the ancient Roman settlement of Napoca with the Roman ruins of Kolozsvár in the Über einige Dacische Inschriften (1865) and Mommsen agreed with this in the Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum (1873). Nobody knew certainly before where was this city, there were various guessing only.

Why you historians and nationalist are so hypocrite? Is fucking hard to accept shits like this? The Napoca is a Roman name with dacian origins. Butthurt?

[blogen]

Why you historians and nationalist are so hypocrite? Is fucking hard to accept shits like this? The Napoca is a Roman name with dacian origins. Butthurt?

You know, the European science is based on provable and verifiable facts and not on claims and dreams.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The international politics cannot be identified with the state. The international politics generally in the course of the history dynastic and not state politics. Especially in the medieval western world.
Yes the kings made politics but they did it in the name of the land they ruled over. It wasn't like: "I john say this and do this" but "I John king of that or this land ..." The man without his country was nothing.


Your ignorance is your problem, but Croatia have only one king: the Croatian king. For example the titles of Lipót I:
Like i said it may look pretty on paper especially for croatian eyes but the reality was that they were under hungarians for a very long time.


It is not possible to make a Hungarian word from the Latin word with a phonetics like this. This is the problem.
You're the one who speaks hungarian. You still haven't substantiated the origin of the "slavic" word kluz and its meaning (pass). It may be impossible to make a word from latin with such phonetics but it's totally possible to make a bogus name from nothing and attribute it a slavic origin :)

[Vlach]

You know, the European science is based on provable and verifiable facts and not on claims and dreams.

Than why are you trying to lie the world and cant accept the romanians are dacians?

[blogen]

Than why are you trying to lie the world and cant accept the romanians are dacians?

Because the rest of the Europeans do not acknowledge this too: unproved hypothesis what is a political ideology rather.

[blogen]

Yes the kings made politics but they did it in the name of the land they ruled over. It wasn't like: "I john say this and do this" but "I John king of that or this land ..." The man without his country was nothing.

Anachronism. The countries were properties of the crowns only, than present day a real estate. The crowns were everything and the kings possessed the countries in the right of the crowns.


Like i said it may look pretty on paper especially for croatian eyes but the reality was that they were under hungarians for a very long time.

This "reality" exists in your head only. The Hungarians and the Hungarian king possessed nothing in Croatia.


You're the one who speaks hungarian. You still haven't substantiated the origin of the "slavic" word kluz and its meaning (pass). It may be impossible to make a word from latin with such phonetics but it's totally possible to make a bogus name from nothing and attribute it a slavic origin :)

Again: your ignorance is your problem. This is an existing Slav place-name. Existing in Hungary or in Czech (Kloušov for example).

kluž --> kulus --> kolos - the Hungarian language does not tolerate the consonant congestion and the vowel harmony is fundamental rule.

And the first written references prove this:
- 1177: "Thomas comes Clusiensis"
- 1213: "Castrum Clus"
- 1275: "villa Culusvar"

[SKYNET]

here is a published material about historical events, all in one.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3nSSelBiAs




Don't call us gypsies, you latent mongolian savages.

[blogen]

Don't call us gypsies, you latent mongolian savages.

The Mongolians conquered the world:
http://www.infowars.com/images/mongol.jpg

The Romanians pickpocketed:
http://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2.jpg

[SKYNET]

The Mongolians conquered the world:
http://www.infowars.com/images/mongol.jpg

The Romanians pickpocketed:
http://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2.jpg



I admit your opinion, but Eurasia isn't the whole world, and Romanians had the minority population unlike a large number of the folk migration from the "Eastern world" Ural mountains to lands of Transylvania and Moldova nowadays

[Zmey Gorynych]

kluž --> kulus --> kolos - the Hungarian language does not tolerate the consonant congestion and the vowel harmony is fundamental rule.

And the first written references prove this:
- 1177: "Thomas comes Clusiensis"
- 1213: "Castrum Clus"
- 1275: "villa Culusvar"
I'm no expert in hungarian phonetics but seems to me that just like kluž evolved into culus or kolos so could clus evolve into the same hungarian kolos. There's consonant congestion in both clus and kluž, so what exactly is your phonetics argument in favour of kluž here !? And you still haven't substantiated the theory that kluž is a slavic word with the meaning of pass, just your claim that there are places in Hungary and Slovakia or Czech Republic. I on the other hand provided you with the equivalent from various slavic languages of the english word pass and all of them are are formed from the prefix "pere" (over) and root, well the root varies from langauge to language but it certainly isn't kluž. So unless you come up with some extinct word form old slavonic your theory is bullshit.

[blogen]

I'm no expert in hungarian phonetics but seems to me that just like kluž evolved into culus or kolos so could clus evolve into the same hungarian kolos. There's consonant congestion in both clus and kluž, so what exactly is your phonetics argument in favour of kluž here !? And you still haven't substantiated the theory that kluž is a slavic word with the meaning of pass, just your claim that there are places in Hungary and Slovakia or Czech Republic. I on the other hand provided you with the equivalent from various slavic languages of the english word pass and all of them are are formed from the prefix "pere" (over) and root, well the root varies from langauge to language but it certainly isn't kluž. So unless you come up with some extinct word form old slavonic your theory is bullshit.

The Slav kluž (ravine, pass) origin from the German klus (ravine, pass) (http://www.wissen.de/fremdwort/klus) the Romanian name (Cluj) originates from this (kluž) directly.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The Slav kluž (ravine, pass) origin from the German klus (ravine, pass) (http://www.wissen.de/fremdwort/klus) the Romanian name (Cluj) originates from this (kluž) directly.
You seem to jump from one linguistic group to another. Would you make up your mind already !? What you're telling me is that by the time hungarians arrived in Transylvania the slavs that were already there made contact with german populations and managed to borrow the word klause changed it to kluz to suit their phonetics and use it to designate a mountain pass although no modern slavic language preserved any word even remotely close to that form meaning pass or ravine :clap2:

Since you brought german into disscusion the appropriate form in german is klause not klus my dear central european, hence the german name Klausenburg for Cluj-Napoca), but I guess you skipped a few classes of that 'fine' linguistic education you got :) Do you know from what language the german word klause originates !? From latin mein freund, from the latin claudere (to close, to shut) which has the same root as clausum (closed). So you can go round and round jumping from one language to another trying to prove me the world is flat but ultimately the name of Cluj-Napoca is entirely of latin origin (both Cluj and Napoca).

[Szegedist]

Etymology
Lets start with the etymology. Where does the name “Transylvania” come from?
According to Romanians, it sounds Latin, so it is of Romanian origins, but the truth could not be different.

Hungary was founded as a Catholic Kingdom, with Latin as it's official language, so Hungarian chronicles in the Middle Ages were written in Latin.

The region of Transylvania was first refereed to as “ultra silvam”, which is Latin for “beyond the woods”, in a medieval Hungarian chronicle (written in Latin), 1075.

The term Partes Transsylvanæ ("parts beyond the forest") dates from the same century (used in Legenda Sancti Gerhardi, and subsequently, as Transsilvania by Medieval Latin documents compiled in the Kingdom of Hungary).

It is here, where the modern name Transylvania comes from.

Another name for Transylvania is Erdély, which comes from Erdő-elve, meaning “in front of the woods”.
The Romanian name for Transylvania (Ardeal) is a phonetic copy of Erdély, and has no meaning whatsoever in the Romanian language.

There is a contradiction between Erdő-elve (on front of the woods) and ultra silvam(beyond the woods)

This is because Erdély comes from the Conquest Era, so the incoming Hungarians saw Transylvania to be in front of the woods (the woods in the Partium/Részek), while “Ultra Silvam” comes after the Kingdom was founded, and to the chronicles, Transylvania now lay beyond the woods.

Romanians have no name of their own for Transylvania.
Transylvania is of Latin origins, first used by Hungarians
Erdély/Ardeal is of Hungarian origins, first used by Hungarians
Siebenbürgen/Sedmigradsko/Sedmihradsko/etc is of German origins, comes from the Saxon Settlers.

[blogen]

You seem to jump from one linguistic group to another. Would you make up your mind already !? What you're telling me is that by the time hungarians arrived in Transylvania the slavs that were already there made contact with german populations and managed to borrow the word klause changed it to kluz to suit their phonetics and use it to designate a mountain pass although no modern slavic language preserved any word even remotely close to that form meaning pass or ravine :clap2:

Do you know from what language the german word klause originates !? From latin mein freund, from the latin claudere (to close, to shut) which has the same root as clausum (closed). So you can go round and round jumping from one language to another trying to prove me the world is flat but ultimately the name of Cluj-Napoca is entirely of latin origin (both Cluj and Napoca).

Not in Transylvania. You were not listening, the Slavic place-name exists on the highland (present Slovakia) and in Czech too! So this was a previous borrowing!


Since you brought german into disscusion the appropriate form in german is klause not klus my dear central european, hence the german name Klausenburg for Cluj-Napoca), but I guess you skipped a few classes of that 'fine' linguistic education you got :)

The German name was a Germanized variant of the Hungarian name and the first German settlers arrived after the Hungarian-Mongol war. And the Kolos name is a Hungarian personal name too from an other way. The Hungarian version of the German Klaus, but this is a coincidence only and this coincidence was the reason of the German naming.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Not in Transylvania. You were not listening, the Slavic place-name exists on the highland (present Slovakia) and in Czech too! So this was a previous borrowing!
I did not imply that the contact occurred in Transylvania just that transylvanians slavs already borrowed the german word prior to hungarian arrival. Me clapping was a reaction to your inability to prove that kluz is a slavic word and then switching to german to have some kind of argument to support your theory.


The German name was a Germanized variant of the Hungarian name and the first German settlers arrived after the Hungarian-Mongol war. And the Kolos name is a Hungarian personal name too from an other way. The Hungarian version of the German Klaus, but this is a coincidence only and this coincidence was the reason of the German naming.
Personal names have nothiing to do with the name of Cluj-Napoca (Klausenburg or Kolosvar). I don't even no why you brought this up !? It's all about the landscape. You've been digressing and deflecting from the very beginning.

[Vlach]

The Slav kluž (ravine, pass) origin from the German klus (ravine, pass) (http://www.wissen.de/fremdwort/klus) the Romanian name (Cluj) originates from this (kluž) directly.

Why are you talkinga bout Cluj? Napoca is the first city name and is a Latin name with dacian origins. And no one gives a fuck about cities etymology, only psycho bozgors like you.

[Vlach]

Etymology
Lets start with the etymology. Where does the name “Transylvania” come from?
According to Romanians, it sounds Latin, so it is of Romanian origins, but the truth could not be different.

Hungary was founded as a Catholic Kingdom, with Latin as it's official language, so Hungarian chronicles in the Middle Ages were written in Latin.

The region of Transylvania was first refereed to as “ultra silvam”, which is Latin for “beyond the woods”, in a medieval Hungarian chronicle (written in Latin), 1075.

The term Partes Transsylvanæ ("parts beyond the forest") dates from the same century (used in Legenda Sancti Gerhardi, and subsequently, as Transsilvania by Medieval Latin documents compiled in the Kingdom of Hungary).

It is here, where the modern name Transylvania comes from.

Another name for Transylvania is Erdély, which comes from Erdő-elve, meaning “in front of the woods”.
The Romanian name for Transylvania (Ardeal) is a phonetic copy of Erdély, and has no meaning whatsoever in the Romanian language.

There is a contradiction between Erdő-elve (on front of the woods) and ultra silvam(beyond the woods)

This is because Erdély comes from the Conquest Era, so the incoming Hungarians saw Transylvania to be in front of the woods (the woods in the Partium/Részek), while “Ultra Silvam” comes after the Kingdom was founded, and to the chronicles, Transylvania now lay beyond the woods.

Romanians have no name of their own for Transylvania.
Transylvania is of Latin origins, first used by Hungarians
Erdély/Ardeal is of Hungarian origins, first used by Hungarians
Siebenbürgen/Sedmigradsko/Sedmihradsko/etc is of German origins, comes from the Saxon Settlers.

Wikipedia boy no one cares about what are you saying =)) They are talking about Cluj idiot =)))

[Szegedist]

Wikipedia boy no one cares about what are you saying =)) They are talking about Cluj idiot =)))

Its not wikipedia subhuman gypsy boy

Lets start with the etymology. Where does the name “Transylvania” come from?
According to Romanians, it sounds Latin, so it is of Romanian origins, but the truth could not be different.

Hungary was founded as a Catholic Kingdom, with Latin as it's official language, so Hungarian chronicles in the Middle Ages were written in Latin.

The region of Transylvania was first refereed to as “ultra silvam”, which is Latin for “beyond the woods”, in a medieval Hungarian chronicle (written in Latin), 1075.

The term Partes Transsylvanæ ("parts beyond the forest") dates from the same century (used in Legenda Sancti Gerhardi, and subsequently, as Transsilvania by Medieval Latin documents compiled in the Kingdom of Hungary).

It is here, where the modern name Transylvania comes from.

Another name for Transylvania is Erdély, which comes from Erdő-elve, meaning “in front of the woods”.
The Romanian name for Transylvania (Ardeal) is a phonetic copy of Erdély, and has no meaning whatsoever in the Romanian language.

There is a contradiction between Erdő-elve (on front of the woods) and ultra silvam(beyond the woods)

This is because Erdély comes from the Conquest Era, so the incoming Hungarians saw Transylvania to be in front of the woods (the woods in the Partium/Részek), while “Ultra Silvam” comes after the Kingdom was founded, and to the chronicles, Transylvania now lay beyond the woods.

Romanians have no name of their own for Transylvania.
Transylvania is of Latin origins, first used by Hungarians
Erdély/Ardeal is of Hungarian origins, first used by Hungarians
Siebenbürgen/Sedmigradsko/Sedmihradsko/etc is of German origins, comes from the Saxon Settlers.

[blogen]

I did not imply that the contact occurred in Transylvania just that transylvanians slavs already borrowed the german word prior to hungarian arrival. Me clapping was a reaction to your inability to prove that kluz is a slavic word and then switching to german to have some kind of argument to support your theory.

The kluž is a Slavic word, existed in Slav languages only (proto Czech, Moravians, and Transsylvanian Slavs). If you do not understand it that is your problem, but this was the short story:

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/111/7lsa.jpg

The Hungarian word may originate from only a Slav word. This would be the Hungarian word in an other case:

clusa - kulusza - Kuluszavár/Kuluszvár - Kuluzár
klus - kulusz - Kuluszvár - Kuluzár
Klaus - kalausz - Kalauszvár/Kalauzvár - Kalauzár
kluž - kulus - Kolosvár - Kolozsvár


Personal names have nothiing to do with the name of Cluj-Napoca (Klausenburg or Kolosvar). I don't even no why you brought this up !? It's all about the landscape. You've been digressing and deflecting from the very beginning.

The personal name contributed to the shape of the Slav loan word in the Hungarian (kulus/kolos) and was the basis of the German name (Kolos is the Hungarian version of the Klaus).

[blogen]

Why are you talkinga bout Cluj? Napoca is the first city name and is a Latin name with dacian origins. And no one gives a fuck about cities etymology, only psycho bozgors like you.

Cluj is the only real Romanian name of the city. The first Romanian settlers in the area borrowed the place-name from the Slavs in the 13th century. The Napoca name disappeared on the end of the Roman rule.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The kluž is a Slavic word, existed in Slav languages only (proto Czech, Moravians, and Transsylvanian Slavs). If you do not understand it that is your problem, but this was the short story
So you claim, you haven't done anything to prove this yet. Whenever you're out of arguments suddenly "I have a problem" (and it's my problem only) because "I'm ignorant or do not understand" what you're trying to say. This and grammar nazism are the most popular maneuvers with people who have no arguments. You're no english professor so you do what you can.

Are there any czechs here who've encountered this misterious, gone missing slavic word kluž with the meaning of pass or ravine !? :)

[Vlach]

Its not wikipedia subhuman gypsy boy

Lets start with the etymology. Where does the name “Transylvania” come from?
According to Romanians, it sounds Latin, so it is of Romanian origins, but the truth could not be different.

Hungary was founded as a Catholic Kingdom, with Latin as it's official language, so Hungarian chronicles in the Middle Ages were written in Latin.

The region of Transylvania was first refereed to as “ultra silvam”, which is Latin for “beyond the woods”, in a medieval Hungarian chronicle (written in Latin), 1075.

The term Partes Transsylvanæ ("parts beyond the forest") dates from the same century (used in Legenda Sancti Gerhardi, and subsequently, as Transsilvania by Medieval Latin documents compiled in the Kingdom of Hungary).

It is here, where the modern name Transylvania comes from.

Another name for Transylvania is Erdély, which comes from Erdő-elve, meaning “in front of the woods”.
The Romanian name for Transylvania (Ardeal) is a phonetic copy of Erdély, and has no meaning whatsoever in the Romanian language.

There is a contradiction between Erdő-elve (on front of the woods) and ultra silvam(beyond the woods)

This is because Erdély comes from the Conquest Era, so the incoming Hungarians saw Transylvania to be in front of the woods (the woods in the Partium/Részek), while “Ultra Silvam” comes after the Kingdom was founded, and to the chronicles, Transylvania now lay beyond the woods.

Romanians have no name of their own for Transylvania.
Transylvania is of Latin origins, first used by Hungarians
Erdély/Ardeal is of Hungarian origins, first used by Hungarians
Siebenbürgen/Sedmigradsko/Sedmihradsko/etc is of German origins, comes from the Saxon Settlers.

Are you stupid? No one gives a fuck about what are you talking. Get some friends in real life, stupid fatso internet warior

[Szegedist]

Are you stupid? No one gives a fuck about what are you talking. Get some friends in real life, stupid fatso internet warior

Lets start with the etymology. Where does the name “Transylvania” come from?
According to Romanians, it sounds Latin, so it is of Romanian origins, but the truth could not be different.



Hungary was founded as a Catholic Kingdom, with Latin as it's official language, so Hungarian chronicles in the Middle Ages were written in Latin.

The region of Transylvania was first refereed to as “ultra silvam”, which is Latin for “beyond the woods”, in a medieval Hungarian chronicle (written in Latin), 1075.

The term Partes Transsylvanæ ("parts beyond the forest") dates from the same century (used in Legenda Sancti Gerhardi, and subsequently, as Transsilvania by Medieval Latin documents compiled in the Kingdom of Hungary).

It is here, where the modern name Transylvania comes from.

Another name for Transylvania is Erdély, which comes from Erdő-elve, meaning “in front of the woods”.
The Romanian name for Transylvania (Ardeal) is a phonetic copy of Erdély, and has no meaning whatsoever in the Romanian language.

There is a contradiction between Erdő-elve (on front of the woods) and ultra silvam(beyond the woods)

This is because Erdély comes from the Conquest Era, so the incoming Hungarians saw Transylvania to be in front of the woods (the woods in the Partium/Részek), while “Ultra Silvam” comes after the Kingdom was founded, and to the chronicles, Transylvania now lay beyond the woods.

Romanians have no name of their own for Transylvania.
Transylvania is of Latin origins, first used by Hungarians
Erdély/Ardeal is of Hungarian origins, first used by Hungarians
Siebenbürgen/Sedmigradsko/Sedmihradsko/etc is of German origins, comes from the Saxon Settlers.

[blogen]

So you claim, you haven't done anything to prove this yet. Whenever you're out of arguments suddenly 'I have a problem' (and it's my problem only)
Are there any czechs here who've encountered this misterious, gone missing slavic word kluž with the meaning of pass or ravine !? :)

The existing place-names are the evidence from Czech to Transylvania. Some exaple from Czech: Kloušov; Hungarian Kingdom: Kolozs vejsze in Bereg county, Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county, Kolozsakna in Kolozs county. This was all the Hungarian-Slav area with a mixed population in the 10-12th century in Hungary. And the ancestry of the word is supposed, more probable the German Klus, then the German Klaus. But there is an example onto the Slav place-name originating from the German Klaus name: Klužínek in Czech.

This is irrelevant because of the final result, there was a Slav word: kluž and the Hungarian and the Romanian name of the city originates from this.


because 'I'm ignorant or do not understand' what you're trying to say. This and grammar nazism are the most popular maneuvers with people who have no arguments. You're no english professor so you do what you can.

The languages have rules unfortunately, so the grammar idiotism not working.

[Vlach]

Lets start with the etymology. Where does the name “Transylvania” come from?
According to Romanians, it sounds Latin, so it is of Romanian origins, but the truth could not be different.



Hungary was founded as a Catholic Kingdom, with Latin as it's official language, so Hungarian chronicles in the Middle Ages were written in Latin.

The region of Transylvania was first refereed to as “ultra silvam”, which is Latin for “beyond the woods”, in a medieval Hungarian chronicle (written in Latin), 1075.

The term Partes Transsylvanæ ("parts beyond the forest") dates from the same century (used in Legenda Sancti Gerhardi, and subsequently, as Transsilvania by Medieval Latin documents compiled in the Kingdom of Hungary).

It is here, where the modern name Transylvania comes from.

Another name for Transylvania is Erdély, which comes from Erdő-elve, meaning “in front of the woods”.
The Romanian name for Transylvania (Ardeal) is a phonetic copy of Erdély, and has no meaning whatsoever in the Romanian language.

There is a contradiction between Erdő-elve (on front of the woods) and ultra silvam(beyond the woods)

This is because Erdély comes from the Conquest Era, so the incoming Hungarians saw Transylvania to be in front of the woods (the woods in the Partium/Részek), while “Ultra Silvam” comes after the Kingdom was founded, and to the chronicles, Transylvania now lay beyond the woods.

Romanians have no name of their own for Transylvania.
Transylvania is of Latin origins, first used by Hungarians
Erdély/Ardeal is of Hungarian origins, first used by Hungarians
Siebenbürgen/Sedmigradsko/Sedmihradsko/etc is of German origins, comes from the Saxon Settlers.

You are so funny, with your 30+ years old face you are more funny than your retarded kid troll.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The existing place-names are the evidence from Czech to Transylvania. Some exaple from Czech: Kloušov; Hungarian Kingdom: Kolozs vejsze in Bereg county, Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county, Kolozsakna in Kolozs county. This was all the Hungarian-Slav area with a mixed population in the 10-12th century in Hungary. And the ancestry of the word is supposed, more probable the German Klus, then the German Klaus. But there is an example onto the Slav place-name originating from the German Klaus name: Klužínek in Czech.

This is irrelevant because of the final result, there was a Slav word: kluž and the Hungarian and the Romanian name of the city originates from this.
How is it irrelevant you moron !? You based your entire theory on the fact that kluz is a slavic word, then you went on to say that utimately it is german in origin and I told you it's actually latin, something you disputed from the very beginning.


The languages have rules unfortunately, so the grammar idiotism not working.
Read again what I wrote in the post you replied to with this, stupid muppet, and this time try and understand.

[blogen]

How is it irrelevant you moron !? You based your entire theory on the fact that kluz is a slavic word, then you went on to say that utimately it is german in origin and I told you it's actually latin, something you disputed from the very beginning.

The existence of the Slav word is the fact you idiot! A Slav word like this existed: kluž. The Hungarian and the Romanian name may derive from this word only. There is not an other lingual option. Only the origin of the Slav word debatable (German Klus or Klaus -there is an example onto both opportunities). And the Slav (kluž), Hungarian (kolozs) and Romanian (Cluj) words are not latin origin, only the German word (Klus). If the kluž word originates from the German Klus word.


Read again what I wrote in the post you replied to with this, stupid muppet, and this time try and understand.

You received the accurate answer.

[Zmey Gorynych]

The existence of the Slav word is the fact you idiot! A Slav word like this existed: kluž. The Hungarian and the Romanian name may derive from this word only. There is not an other lingual option. Only the origin of the Slav word debatable (German Klus or Klaus -there is an example onto both opportunities). And the Slav (kluž), Hungarian (kolozs) and Romanian (Cluj) words are not latin origin, only the German word (Klus). If the kluž word originates from the German Klus word.
Since when your word is a fact you moron !? All you have is a place name in Czech Republic (the other being in Hungary) and your assumption that the word has to be slavic because in that region once lived a mixed slavic-hungarian population, no preserved forms of that allegedly slavic word in modern slavic languages. With that you couldn't convince a class of 7 year olds.

[blogen]

Since when your word is a fact you moron !?
and your assumption that the word has to be slavic because in that region once lived a mixed slavic-hungarian population

The great Hungarian Slavists: Kniezsa István's word and assumption since the placename exists in Slav countries (Czech for example) besides the ex Hungarian-Slav periphery. And there was an other hard evidence onto this: the "ʒ" consonant in the Hungarian and in the Romanian name.

This excludes all other opportunities, since the rest of the assumption (clusa, Klus, Klaus) does not imply a ʒ.

Slav: kluʒ --> Hungarian: kuluʒ/koloʒ
Slav: kluʒ --> Romanian: kluʒ

And the receipt of the German word it's possible in the Slav, since we have an well documented example onto this: Klaus --> Klužínek

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5630/swll.jpg


All you have is a place name in Czech Republic (the other being in Hungary)

Do not lie! We have half dozen place name from the kluž! Again you retard:

Kolozs vejsze in Bereg county
Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county
Kolozsakna and Kolozsvár in Kolozs county.

And for example some German Klus/Klause placenames from the 10-11th century German/Slavic periphery: Klausen-Leopoldsdorf in Lower Austria, Klause bei Mödling near Vienna and Klausbach creek in Rohr im Gebirge, etc.


no preserved forms of that allegedly slavic word in modern slavic languages. With that you couldn't convince a class of 7 year olds.

And thousands and thousands words disappered from the languages. Particularly under a thousand years. For example the Hungarian vejsze (vésztő) word in the Kolozs vejsze placename. This meant a fishing place in the Hungarian language once and we have many place-names like this, but the word does not exist since centuries.

[Windischer]

the closest words to kluž in my language can be kaluža, an archaic term for a puddle, or a pond.
kluž could be a somewhat archaic word for slide.
slavic population in northern transylvania (watersheds of someš, krasna) was west-slavic, identical or closely related to population in what is now eastern slovakia.

[blogen]

The existing place-names are the evidence from Czech to Transylvania. Some exaple from Czech: Kloušov; Hungarian Kingdom: Kolozs vejsze in Bereg county, Apátkolozs, Nagykolozs and Kolozsmonostor in Nyitra county, Kolozsakna in Kolozs county. This was all the Hungarian-Slav area with a mixed population in the 10-12th century in Hungary. And the ancestry of the word is supposed, more probable the German Klus, then the German Klaus. But there is an example onto the Slav place-name originating from the German Klaus name: Klužínek in Czech.

I found it accidentally these early medieval Anglo-Saxon examples onto the German place-name: klus. I didn't know that the name was so widespread between the early medieval Germans in the Old and Middle High German languages:

Clues - This unusual name is of Anglo-Saxon origin, and is a peculiarly Devonshire variant of the topographical surname found elsewhere in England as "Clough". The surname denoted someone who lived near a precipitous slope, in a ravine or steep-sided valley, and is derived from the Old English pre 7th Century word "Cloh", ravine, steep valley. The development of the surname includes Roster Clough (1279, Oxfordshire), John del Clogh, (1298, Yorkshire), Richard Cluff (1428, Staffordshire), and in Devonshire, Robert Cloake (1597), Mary Cloak (1685), and Thomas Clooke (1689). The Scottish form of the name is "Cleugh", and the modern surname can be found as Clough, Cluff, Clow, Clew, Clue, and Clues or Clew(e)s. One Richard Cloke married Alicia Parre at Buckland Monachorum on the 13th June 1551. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Richard Clowe, which was dated 1275, in the "Worcestershire Subsidy Rolls", during the reign of King Edward 1, known as "The Hammer of the Scots", 1272 - 1307. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.
Surname Database (http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Clues)

clūs, clūse f. bar, bolt: enclosure: cell, prison. [from the L. clausum]
A concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31543/31543-h/files/dict_ac.html)

"Clough a common name in the North Staffordshire moorlands and with variants in the northern
counties, but not found south of Stone. From OE clöh, not independently recorded, which Duignan
believed to mean 'a ravine or narrow valley with steep sides', usually forming the bed of a stream, but
which seems to have been applied to less pronounced or secondary features. 444 The old pronunciation
was as in bough', but is now 'sluff. Examples include Bullclough, Clough Head, Clough House,
Harper Cloughh, Hawkeswall Clough, Hoarse Clough, Hollinsclough, Oakenclough, Outclough,
Pyeclough, Raven's Clough, and School Clough."
A Survey and Analysis of the Place-Names of Staffordshire

"« Clough » « Clow » Clough = Lat. clûsa (clausa), A. H. A. chlùsa ; m. h. a. Klùse, Klûs, a. m. KIause,ndl. Kluis."
MM. A. Marignan: Le Moyen Age - 1891 (http://scans.library.utoronto.ca/pdf/4/17/lemoyenge04bruxuoft/lemoyenge04bruxuoft.pdf)

clow (klaʊ) Forms: α. 3 (dat.) cluse, 5–6 clowse, clowze, clouse, pl. clousis, clowses, 9 dial. cloose. β. pl. 5 clowys, 6– clowes, 9 cloughs; sing. 5 clowe, 7–9 clow, 8–9 clough; dial. clow, clew. [Clow is a false singular formed upon clowes, clowis, taken in 15–16th c. for a plural, but originally a singular, in ME. clowse, clowze, early ME. cluse, OE. cluacuse, a. late L. clūsa, var. of clausa, lit. a closed or shut place or way. Du Cange has, among other senses, ‘agger in quo concluduntur aquæ’. Hence, also, OHG (Old High German). chlûsa, MHG (Middle High German). klûse, klûs, mod.Ger. klause, in Bavaria and Tirôl, a dam on a mountain stream for floating timber; klaus, in Rhineland, a mill-dam, also dial. a sluice. So MDu. clûse, Du. kluis
source (http://www.engly.ru/useful_english/184986/clow)

Klöppelsklus - Im GW liegt Klus vor, mhd. klûse, klûs stswf. ‚klause, einsiedelei; wohnung, behausung überhaupt mit dem begriffe des heimischen, traulichen; felsspalte, kluft, engpass’.392 Hier könnte es ‚Engpass’ bedeuten, aber auch eine Variante von lat. clausa sein, wobei nach Kluge die „Bedeutung ‚Engpaß’ bereits im lat. Wort“393 vorhanden ist. Klus bezeichnet aber auch „eingehegtes Grundstück“, „Einsiedelei, Kloster“ oder „verschlossener, befestigter Bau“394 Klus kann sich also auf die Behausung beziehen oder auf die Lage am Weg (Alte Chaussee), der einen Engpass darstellt. Im Eichsfeld gibt es mehrere heutige Kapellen mit der Bezeichnung Klus: Kaltenebersche Klus, Klüschen Hagis.
Die Mikrotoponyme der Gemarkung Heiligenstadt (http://www.sprachwissenschaft.uni-jena.de/germsprach_multimedia/Downloads/meineke/Die_Mikrotoponyme_der_Gemarkung_Heiligenstadt.pdf)

[alb0zfinest]

Ugh I thought it would at least mention the vampire population.........

[Vlach]

Ugh I thought it would at least mention the vampire population.........

If you will visit Bran Castle, do not sleep with windows opens, a bat will make a visit in your room ( this happens to me )

[RussiaPrussia]

Transylvania should come back to russia

[SKYNET]

:cool:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Saxons_Transylvania.svg

[blogen]

If you will visit Bran Castle, do not sleep with windows opens, a bat will make a visit in your room ( this happens to me )

There is a problem with this. Törcsvár/Tölzburg/Bran-Poarta was never Vlad's property or beneficiary and he was never a guest in the castle presumably. Only Mircea I was the beneficiary of the castle until eleven years between 1407-1418 under king Sigismund (the castle was a royal property).

[Vlach]

There is a problem with this. Törcsvár/Tölzburg/Bran-Poarta was never Vlad's property or beneficiary and he was never a guest in the castle presumably. Only Mircea I was the beneficiary of the castle until eleven years between 1407-1418 under king Sigismund (the castle was a royal property).

Yes, I know, this is just a legend. Wallachia and Hungary borders in middle ages changed so much and
frequently

[blogen]

Yes, I know, this is just a legend. Wallachia and Hungary borders in middle ages changed so much and
frequently

The Hungarian-Wallachian border was solid, the southern banate's (Banat of Severin especially) border changed frequently. And Mircea was the beneficiary of the castle as a Hungarian nobleman, the donation of the "citizenship" (Hungarian nobility) and the incomes (mostly life estate and not ownership) for the loyal vassals was royal politics. The castle was not his property and never was Wallchia's part.

[Isleño]

100% Dracula.

[RussiaPrussia]

By ''Romanian'' you mean gypsy? Why do you guys constantly deny that you are gypsies non europan monglers. I've seen your pic and you seem pretty much non europan. Romania is a gypsy land.

you both are gypsies

[InperatoreBT]

you both are gypsies

aight fag

[Atropos]

If he was not gypsy, he wasn't Romanian. Romanian means Gypsy, Roma people. He was probably romanized Slav, while 90% percent of Romanians are gypsies.

Did you ever been in Romania? Do you know the people living in this area? Do you know your history, your real history, I mean?

Have some reading before writing this stupid words.

[Xanthias]

OMG this thread, hilarious.