Sub-Saharan and East Asian in Greeks?

[JQP4545]

Why do some Greeks score small percentages of Sub-Saharan African and East Asian on 23andMe?

[Tropico]

Don't you know? The Original Ancient Greeks were Black.




LMAO.

[Liac]

SSA because Roman empire had Black slaves in ancient times while East Asian because of Ottoman occupation.

[Also]

Ask Melonhead. He can give you a long explanation. :P

[JQP4545]

SSA because Roman empire had Black slaves in ancient times while East Asian because of Ottoman occupation.

Shouldn't it show up as North Africa and Middle East? My relative is half Greek half Colonial American (this includes a little African) and he has small percentages of SubSaharan, South Asian, Jewish, and East Asian. I can discern by looking at the chromosomes though that the East Asian and some of the Subsaharan African came from the Greek side. South Asian and Jewish could as well because another relative who is full Greek showed some South Asian and North African. I just don't understand how he could have East Asian and SubSaharan African, but no North African or Middle East?

[Gaston]

Must be recent enough. The African could be anything, from actual black to Middle Eastern or North African related ancestry. The Asian could come from the Turks but other Asian people ventured in Europe way before.
Most Greeks though don't score any of the two.


SSA because Roman empire had Black slaves in ancient times while East Asian because of Ottoman occupation.

Blacks in the Roman Empire? possible but rare. Most slaves were locals usually, not from distant province of the Empire and certainly not from unexplored territories outside of the [then] known world.

[JQP4545]

The other possibility is that there is Balkan ancestry on the Colonial American side. Could Balkan be Sephardic or Gypsy?

[The King, I am]

Because they are wogs, probably the moors or something

[KidMulat]

Must be recent enough. The African could be anything, from actual black to Middle Eastern or North African related ancestry. The Asian could come from the Turks but other Asian people ventured in Europe way before.
Most Greeks though don't score any of the two.



Blacks in the Roman Empire? possible but rare. Most slaves were locals usually, not from distant province of the Empire and certainly not from unexplored territories outside of the [then] known world.

The Blacks of Rome are well represented in art of the period as servers, dancers, gifts of the south etc... Rome/Italy is the only place outside of Somalia to have Donkeys from that subspecies (everywhere else use Nubian derived Donkey breeds).

[Mortimer]

SSA from egyptians or ethiopians, East Asian from Turks, Southasian from ancient trade with Afghanistan and India or from Gypsies etc.

[JQP4545]

SSA from egyptians or ethiopians, East Asian from Turks, Southasian from ancient trade with Afghanistan and India or from Gypsies etc.

Shouldn't there be North African and Middle East then?

[Mortimer]

Shouldn't there be North African and Middle East then?

that too, but also SSA and East Asian because Egyptians are Northafrican_MidEastern but have also traces of SSA and Turks have traces of East Asian

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

that too, but also SSA and East Asian because Egyptians are Northafrican_MidEastern but have also traces of SSA and Turks have traces of East Asian

I heard you score some ssa in your results? what's your ssa admixture?

[JQP4545]

that too, but also SSA and East Asian because Egyptians are Northafrican_MidEastern but have also traces of SSA and Turks have traces of East Asian

This sample only shows West African and East Asian/Native American, but zero Middle Eastern. That's why I'm confused...were there East Asians or West African in Modern Greece?

[JQP4545]

I heard you score some ssa in your results? what's your ssa admixture?

1.7 %

[Mortimer]

I heard you score some ssa in your results? what's your ssa admixture?

0.5% at speculative and 0.4% at standard and conservative, but i wait for the new update to see what kind it is east, west, central etc.

[Mortimer]

This sample only shows West African and East Asian/Native American, but zero Middle Eastern. That's why I'm confused...were there East Asians or West African in Modern Greece?

the middle east could be caught up as balkan or italian or non-specific southern european though. sometimes it is hard to distinguish because they use greeks as samples and all greeks have mideastern so it gets count as greek/balkan without showing up in a extra category

[JQP4545]

the middle east could be caught up as balkan or italian or non-specific southern european though. sometimes it is hard to distinguish because they use greeks as samples and all greeks have mideastern so it gets count as greek/balkan without showing up in a extra category

Makes sense.

[JQP4545]

Could Greeks also have Northern European admixture, such as French?

[Mortimer]

Could Greeks also have Northern European admixture, such as French?

yes why not. especially if they are greek americans. they could have recent northern european ancestor or from middle ages (crusades)

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

There is a chance that some Sub-Saharan blood made it to Greeks by some North Africans. It's a possibility. I'm not sure. From what History tells me and from What I have read some of black is ancient admixture from North Africans most likely. When the genetic study on Berber mummies was done not sure in mainland but in the Canary Islands, it showed them to be 6% Sub-Saharan and 94% North African. It's admixture. so they probably have got it from some North African or even from a Middle Eastern. No one in the world is pure. we all have some little admixture of something. So the little Sub-Saharan percent so much of it could be from the North Africans, but some of it might be from a black slave from Roman empire also from hundreds of years ago entering greek blood lines. and similar I am guessing with East Asian from the Ottoman empire,gypsies etc.

[Gaston]

Black slaves in the Roman Empire were very rare so not worth mentioning. Slaves were mostly locals, in Rome they were mostly Italic people from the surrounding areas. In Greece, it was mostly Greeks.


Could Greeks also have Northern European admixture, such as French?

Have you heard of Slavic migrations? The territory of modern Greece has been flooded with Slavic populations in the Middle Ages so East European is quite likely.

Also, don't take 23andme's AC too seriously. It's highly flawed and gives heterogenous results to people from the same ethnic group. Third party tools are much better.
In any case, North African and Middle Eastern ancestry register partially or entirely as "Italian" or non-specific Southern Europe/European, especially after the second generation of mixing, and gives residual SSA and South Asian or East Asian for the latter. North European ancestry may give in some cases East Asian % but it's much less likely since European components are galore.

[JQP4545]

Black slaves in the Roman Empire was very rare and not worth mentioning. Slaves were mostly locals, in Rome they were mostly Italic people from the surrounding areas. In Greece, it was mostly Greeks.



Have you heard of Slavic migrations? The territory of modern Greece has been flooded with Slavic populations in the Middle Ages so East European is quite likely.

Also, don't take 23andme's AC too seriously. It's highly flawed and gives heterogenous results to people from the same ethnic group. Third party tools are much better.
In any case, North African and Middle Eastern ancestry register partially or entirely as "Italian" or non-specific Southern Europe/European, especially after the second generation of mixing, and gives residual SSA and South Asian or East Asian for the latter. North European ancestry may give in some cases East Asian % but it's much less likely since European components are galore.

Which would you recommend?

[JQP4545]

Dodecad Africa9:

Population
Europe 59.24%
NW_Africa 9.55%
SW_Asia 29.12%
E_Africa 0.55%
S_Africa -
Mbuti -
W_Africa 0.09%
Biaka -
San 1.46%

[Gaston]

I recommend all of them (Eurogenes, Dodecad, Harappa etc) + Dr McDonald's analysis of the raw data. They are complementary.

[JQP4545]

I recommend all of them (Eurogenes, Dodecad, Harappa etc) + Dr McDonald's analysis of the raw data. They are complementary.

IMO they aren't very good at determining Indian ancestry since all Western Euros have Baloch/Gedrosia.

[JQP4545]

Harappa:

S-Indian -
Baloch 9.38%
Caucasian 18.94%
NE-Euro 35.90%
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.65%
NE-Asian -
Papuan -
American 0.32%
Beringian -
Mediterranean 28.60%
SW-Asian 4.56%
San 0.14%
E-African 0.45%
Pygmy -
W-African 1.07%

[Gaston]

You have to try the runs with lower Ks too, to check how much North Eurasian (Amerindian-like) and Asian (as in East or South Asia) for actual Indian ancestry. Greeks have both North European and West Asian ancestry which are both very mixed (West Eurasia + other Eurasian) which can register partially as "Asian" in lower Ks. So you have to compare averages for Greece and neighboring countries and see if your Asian % are higher.

[JQP4545]

You have to try the runs with lower Ks too, to check how much North Eurasian (Amerindian-like) and Asian (as in East or South Asia) for actual Indian ancestry. Greeks have both North European and West Asian ancestry which are both very mixed (West Eurasia + other Eurasian) which can register partially as "Asian" in lower Ks. So you have to compare averages for Greece and neighboring countries and see if your Asian % are higher.

Well Amerindian, Subsaharan, and Middle East/South Asia, and North Africa show up on most tests. The Amerind and South Asian is small though so its hard to tell.