Armenian Kinship Groups

[Black Wolf]

I came across these interesting write ups/websites about traditional Armenian village kinship groups today. Does this seem accurate to the Armenians here in regards of traditional kinship groups?

http://www.everyculture.com/Russia-Eurasia-China/Armenians-Kinship.html

http://www.dersimsite.org/carsancak.html

[Black Wolf]

bump.

[Musso]

This was more true in older times, though you can possibly see some elements of such kinship in the modern culture today.

[Black Wolf]

This was more true in older times, though you can possibly see some elements of such kinship in the modern culture today.

Was the gerdastan (clan) an important part of Armenian social life until quite recently?

[Musso]

Was the gerdastan (clan) an important part of Armenian social life until quite recently?

One could say that its importance still remains in the more rural areas of Armenia. But yes, gerdastan was an important part of Armenian society, and so was the church community. Often times, it was through the Armenian Church, that communities were organized and led.

[Black Wolf]

One could say that its importance still remains in the more rural areas of Armenia. But yes, gerdastan was an important part of Armenian society, and so was the church community. Often times, it was through the Armenian Church, that communities were organized and led.

So then was the basic social unit in both West Armenia (Anatolia) and East Armenia (Armenia today) the clan (gerdastan) until recently?

[Wild North]

In older times, within the Armenian population was it a distinction between those living in the Highlands, and those lowlanders or city dwellers? The Highlanders having a more traditional clan society, while the city dwellers were different?

[Stefan_Dusan]

This is interesting


patrilineal clans that included ancestors in the male line, sometimes extending as far back as six or eight generations.

Read more: http://www.everyculture.com/Russia-Eurasia-China/Armenians-Kinship.html#ixzz36nWsg9EN

Because in my culture to marry, you can never marry someone within your tribe whether related to you or not. However, from a different tribe or unrelated group, you must confirm that 8 generations, you share no relation (that's about 200-300 years). Since I'm descended of Armenian noble family, I wonder if this is tied xD

[Musso]

So then was the basic social unit in both West Armenia (Anatolia) and East Armenia (Armenia today) the clan (gerdastan) until recently?

Yes, to a large extent, but as I said, the Church also played a key role in organizing Armenian society, every community was built around a certain church, led by a priest. So I would say the mix of the two has been essential in being the basic social unit.

[Black Wolf]

Yes, to a large extent, but as I said, the Church also played a key role in organizing Armenian society, every community was built around a certain church, led by a priest. So I would say the mix of the two has been essential in being the basic social unit.

Interesting stuff thank you. Do you know much about the Armenians from Sasun? One of my haplotype matches comes from Sasun or I should say his paternal line ancestors did. People from Sasun were known to be good warriors correct?

[Musso]

Interesting stuff thank you. Do you know much about the Armenians from Sasun? One of my haplotype matches comes from Sasun or I should say his paternal line ancestors did. People from Sasun were known to be good warriors correct?

Armenians of Sasun are said to be the most patriotic Armenians. Ironically, there is some viable evidence that the Armenians of Sasuns were originally Assyrians and assimilated/converted into Armenians over time. Some of my maternal ancestors come from Sasun, I've also heard from family stories, that many Jewish Families also settled in Sasun and mixed/assimilated with Armenians.

[Black Wolf]

Armenians of Sasun are said to be the most patriotic Armenians. Ironically, there is some viable evidence that the Armenians of Sasuns were originally Assyrians and assimilated/converted into Armenians over time. Some of my maternal ancestors come from Sasun, I've also heard from family stories, that many Jewish Families also settled in Sasun and mixed/assimilated with Armenians.

I read before that Armenians from Sasun were very self sufficient as they were highlanders and were also very proud people. Did the Sasun Armenians also traditionally live in clans (gerdastan) do you know?

[Armenian Bishop]

This is interesting



Because in my culture to marry, you can never marry someone within your tribe whether related to you or not. However, from a different tribe or unrelated group, you must confirm that 8 generations, you share no relation (that's about 200-300 years). Since I'm descended of Armenian noble family, I wonder if this is tied xD

What Armenian noble family are you descended from? Perhaps, your ancestry links you to one of the Medieval Armenian Kingdoms, Cilician Armenia (11th to 14th Centuries AD), or Bagatruni Armenia (9th to 11th Century AD). That's interesting, and gives you a prized place in the legacy of Armenian Civilizations.

[Wild North]

Was it or is it, any differences between highland Armenians and Armenian city dwellers concerning kinship?

[Black Wolf]

Was it or is it, any differences between highland Armenians and Armenian city dwellers concerning kinship?

I would think that the highland/rural Armenians probably would have been more traditional and clan oriented than city dwellers but I do not know this for sure.

[Black Wolf]

I found these links about traditional Armenian kinship organization and I have discussed this with an Armenian fellow who is an academic and has studied Armenian culture, history and society and he has told me that these links are correct. He told me that in the past pretty much all Armenians at one point belonged to gerdastans (clans) ans that this clan structure of Armenian society probably survived in the rural areas of Armenia right up until the genocide in the year 1915. It may have survived even longer in the rural areas of Armenia during the Soviet period.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Armenians.aspx

''Kinship
Kin Groups and Descent. Traditional Armenian cultural practices have changed dramatically since the 1915 genocide and subsequent dispersal of Armenians from eastern Anatolia. Many traditional elements still characterize contemporary Armenian life, however, particularly in rural villages of the former Soviet Union. The most general category of Armenian descent was the azk, a nonresidential community of Armenians with kinship and political loyalties. The largest unit of Armenian kinship was the clan (gerdastan ). While this term may refer to the immediate relatives of a single parent or grandparent, it is also used to describe patriarchal, patrilineal clans that included ancestors in the male line, sometimes extending as far back as six or eight generations. These clans resembled other European and Caucasian clan organizations dating back to the Middle Ages. Among the many responsibilities of the head of the clan were the maintenance of clan honor, consent for all marriages, the burial of deceased clan members, and the avenging of blood feuds. Clans often served the purpose of self-defense against other clans and other peoples.

Although the clans were not characteristically residential, they sometimes occupied a particular territory within a village. In such cases, a network of blood ties constituted a cooperative economic unit, and consensus was required among male members for the disposal of any property. Both residentially and nonresidentially based clans were exogamous, with strict taboos against marriage between second cousins and between god kin and against levirate.''

http://unfpa.am/sites/default/files/Sex_Imbalance_report_Eng_final.pdf

''At the core of this inequity between men and women lies a patriarchal culture based on a patrilineal
kinship system. In patrilineal (and patrilocal) systems, families revolve around the male line, headed
by the elder and constituted by married sons. The extended family (gerdastan) is at the core of this
kinship system based on exogamous clans. An anthropologist put it to me as, “The family fire may
go out without sons”. After marriage, daughters cease to belong to their native family and they join
the household of their husband as a new permanent member. In a country where multigenerational
cohabitation is common, it is one of the married sons who is expected to reside with their parents
and take care of them in their old age. Men rarely join their wives’ family after marriage, as this is a
source of dishonor or ridicule labeled as a tanpesa (house groom).''

[Black Wolf]

This write up from the Encyclopedia of Sex and Gender also seems quite informative.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=XUAsskBg8ywC&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=Armenians+extended+family+clans+gerdastan&source=bl&ots=i1pbNZzkF7&sig=bPFBKCsgxZBr0xKOVlZEZF2HK5k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eZccVcHlOIGegwT84YIY&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Armenians%20extended%20family%20clans%20gerdasta n&f=false