Remember remember the 5th of November [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Trog

11-05-2009, 05:04 PM

^^^^ they weren't traitors, they were fighting for their cause, that makes them honourable and noble. The true victors here are the shops who commercialise this 'event' and cause mayhem for a whole week, particularly those of us with dogs and pets.

Halloween wasn't allowed in our hoose either, funnily enough. I always hated the week between the end of October and first week of November.

Beorn

11-05-2009, 08:14 PM

they weren't traitors

Traitor: someone who betrays his country by committing treason

The true victors here are the shops who commercialise this 'event' and cause mayhem for a whole week, particularly those of us with dogs and pets.

Commercialised it? Why do you say that?

Trog

11-05-2009, 09:07 PM

Anthropos

11-05-2009, 09:11 PM

Could you try to summarise the whole thing eloquently for me and other people who have only heard commonplace statements about it (and not seen any bloody movies)? :)

If I may intrude here, I mean

Trog

11-05-2009, 09:19 PM

Well, like a lot of Britons, I was raised in a culture that on the 5th of November every year they would hold bonfires, firework displays and go around selling dressed up dummies and as "penny for the guy". Only in our family, it was forbidden. Later my Dad told me it was because Guy Fawkes was Roman Catholic and he tried to blow up Parliament.

For a more informative explanation, there's good ole wikipedia:

Guy Fawkes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes)

Anthropos

11-05-2009, 09:32 PM

How is this thing turning out now that Britain is becoming more Catholic again?

Murphy

11-05-2009, 09:49 PM

I never really understood why we never celebrated November 5th, until I was 11 and some boys had started a fire in the park across from my old house. They had built this big bonfire with an effigy in the middle of it.

My father told me it was meant to be the Pope. When I heard some idiots playing flutes and someone getting up a chorus of The Sash, I new very well why we did not celebrate November 5th.

By the way, Fawkes was no traitor. He was loyal. Loyal to God and Church.

Regards,
The Papist.

Germanicus

11-05-2009, 09:51 PM

Listen up and learn... The only reason we celebrate Guy Fawkes night is this..It's an excuse for your young sons to go out late, dress up as a Guy Fawkes dummy and sit outside a boozer till chucking out time, the money that can be made is amazing, saves parents from giving pocket money to kids around this time.
Hell i know all about it, i did this till i was 12 or 13 years old.

This picture could just as easily be me... sad eh?

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/PennyForTheGuy.jpg

Beorn

11-05-2009, 09:53 PM

Traitor - Outside legal spheres, the word "traitor" may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation, family, friends, ethnic group, team, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong.

Guy Fawkes qualifies even more so then. The man was born and raised Protestant and only converted after dissenting against Henry VIII's religious persecutions of Catholics. He was born and raised in England, so there again the man qualifies.

I think the man is an English legend, and I am proud that his name resounds around the world, but the man was and always will be regarded as a traitor. Legal or otherwise.

Guido was more true to his beliefs. For a nation is not a belief. In his view he was protecting his country.

Pish! He was scared of having another Protestant monarch upon the throne.

...who cause pet-owners like myself misery as our poor dogs won't go outside for fear of the fireworks.

For one day of the year (give or take a few either side)? I wish they would have a 'shoot your neighbours dog...and owner day'. I could stop that inane barking at all times of the day and night, and in one swoop be rid of dog owners.

How is this thing turning out now that Britain is becoming more Catholic again?

:confused: What makes you think they are?

The Black Prince

11-05-2009, 09:58 PM

How is this thing turning out now that Britain is becoming more Catholic again?
:confused:

If anything Britain like the rest of Western Europe is become more dechurched.

Anthropos

11-05-2009, 10:09 PM

Óttar

11-05-2009, 10:13 PM

I remain resolutely neutral in this matter.

The Black Prince

11-05-2009, 10:18 PM

It was The Papist who posted something about Anglican parishes coming back in communication with Rome; also, some news about prominent people converting, like e.g. Tony Blair. So you wouldn't say there's a trend?
Well if there is one reason they would do that it is the ongoing dechurching.

Off all the young people I know, whose parents are going to church, less as 20% is still religious (at variable level) and perhaps only 20% of them visits a church regulary. For as far as I know the dechurching is the most continous trend the last decades and it is going on in most of Western Europe.

Murphy

11-05-2009, 10:19 PM

It was The Papist who posted something about Anglican parishes coming back in communication with Rome; also, some news about prominent people converting, like e.g. Tony Blair. So you wouldn't say there's a trend?

Traditionalist Anglicans contacted Rome. The Anglican Church in England is going no where.

Tony Blair thinks the Church needs to "get with the times" and supports homosexual "marriage"..

Regards,
The Papist.

Anthropos

11-05-2009, 10:27 PM

Traditionalist Anglicans contacted Rome. The Anglican Church in England is going no where.

Tony Blair thinks the Church needs to "get with the times" and supports homosexual "marriage"..

Regards,
The Papist.

I said "Anglican parishes", not the Anglican Church. And regardless of what you think of Tony Blair, there might still be a trend. I for one wonder why the hell I hear news on mainstream Swedish media about British celebrities converting to Catholicism! :confused:

Osweo

11-05-2009, 10:52 PM

Here's an explanatory video of what it's all about:
lBVrPurrqCw

God, I SO wish that Robert Carlyle's scene as King James I and VI in Parliament in 'Gunpowder, Treason and Plot' was on Youtube... :cry

His piece de resistance was James's speech to parliament - as devious and self-seeking as any speech ever delivered there - describing in detail the death of the plotters. "They will have their privates cut off for they are not fit to have children ... they will have their heads cut off for in there they conceived this treason."
There was much more. He limped up and down the chamber (he'd had polio or the like as a child) crying out what would happen to the men who had wanted to blow up the elected representatives of the English people and their King... From memory; "They shall hang by the neck, for their feet are not fit to touch God's green earth! Their tongues shall be cut out, for with these tongues they have blasphemed against God and his Church! Their bodies shall be burnt, for they would corrupt the earth with their sin!"

We cheered in my house! :clapping:thumbs
http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/russian-dvds/101-1.jpghttp://study.abingdon.org.uk/history/GPT.jpg

Now that's a real Scot! :D

Trog

11-06-2009, 01:12 AM

Well Guy Fawkes wanted to tackle a Scotsman in Jimmy and failed. What else is there to say?

Fred

11-11-2009, 07:58 AM

One could celebrate Jacobean Catholicism in the form of Lord Baltimore if not Fawkes. It is amusing how Jimmy appeased our "terrorist" ancestors who lived under siege for the longest time, ever since Bosworth field redefined what was treason. Yorkist Catholicism all the way! Cardinal Pole should have ended up marrying Mary instead of Philip, so nobody could say Catholicism was an import--I love the Jesuits anyway! Jimmy was a Protestant invader, even if my ancestors courted his mother with the Nevilles and Percys. We Northerners unwittingly gave assent to his succession, just as when the Gunpowder Plotters tried to engineer the Bohemian link, which ultimately led to the Hanoverian absolutism in the same line. What are legitimists for a national constitution left with now? Franz of Bavaria? Whatever! I prefer either Yorkist or even perhaps, Tudor legitimism than the Stuart foreigners.

Iago

12-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Catholics are scum and are worse than Commie students.

They hate British History and our Rightful Monarch.

If they want another war, we will gladly accept

The Orange Order is still alive and well

Amapola

12-12-2009, 02:55 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5Olg-qZmOFw/SIz9Ft19g1I/AAAAAAAACus/QTN53aW6zuI/s320/santiago_matamoros.jpg

Sant'Iago

:laugh2:

Iago

12-12-2009, 03:08 PM

Why don't you become a nun like the rest of Spanish Whores

I HATE YOUR COUNTRY, I HATE YOUR FOOD, I HATE YOUR LANGUAGE AN A HATE YOUR FACE

Eldritch

12-12-2009, 03:14 PM

Why don't you become a nun like the rest of Spanish Whores

I HATE YOUR COUNTRY, I HATE YOUR FOOD, I HATE YOUR LANGUAGE AN A HATE YOUR FACE

:D

Just calm down, sit still and wait quietly, and the nice men in the white coats will come for you soon enough.

Groenewolf

12-12-2009, 03:17 PM

Why don't you become a nun like the rest of Spanish Whores

I HATE YOUR COUNTRY, I HATE YOUR FOOD, I HATE YOUR LANGUAGE AN A HATE YOUR FACE

Good work at upholding the image of the English gentleman.:thumb001::rolleyes2:

Amapola

12-12-2009, 03:20 PM

Why don't you become a nun like the rest of Spanish Whores

I HATE YOUR COUNTRY, I HATE YOUR FOOD, I HATE YOUR LANGUAGE AN A HATE YOUR FACE

I might do something nicer with English "men" than becoming a nun myself, you would love to see the result. :rolleyes:

Fortis in Arduis

12-12-2009, 03:22 PM

Can we please un-ban Iago?

Pretty please? :D

Murphy

12-13-2009, 07:52 AM

Catholics are scum and are worse than Commie students.

... my dick's bigger than your dick.

They hate British History and our Rightful Monarch.

I don't hate British history. I enjoy British history. I hate certain events that have happened in British history. From the Normon Invasion to English wars being fought on Irish soil.

There is also some debate about who exactly our rightful monarch is. I lean towards Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, not ol' Lizzie.

If they want another war, we will gladly accept

Oh aye lad, piss of us Catholics and the Pope will call a crusade on London :rolleyes2:.. please, you can't even handle Afghan shepherds!

The Orange Order is still alive and well

Oh it's still alive, but is it doing so well? I don't think so.

Why don't you become a nun like the rest of Spanish Whores

You have a cheek to talk about "Spanish whores".. have you been on a British high street these last few years?

I HATE YOUR COUNTRY, I HATE YOUR FOOD, I HATE YOUR LANGUAGE AN A HATE YOUR FACE

No one loves Britain except a few Americans, no one likes British food and the English language is used-and-abused around the world with no respect shown to it and I assure you, my dick is still bigger than your dick.

Now unban this man I say!

Stossy

12-13-2009, 08:02 AM

Ah yes... remember, remember the fifth of november the gun powder treason and plot, i know of no reason why the gun powder treason should ever be forgot...

I know about the 5th of november, but i live in the Netherlands... too bad..

Dalriada

12-15-2009, 09:59 PM

Murphy

12-16-2009, 05:16 AM

Far from being a negative point, the "anti-Catholicism" of November 5th is exactly the reason why I celebrate it. Yet another British victory over Jesuit-backed murderers; if anything is shameful about this event, it is the fact that its meaning has been lost.

No Popery

I am glad one of you infidels have finally come forward and told the truth. But my dear man, Jesuit plots? Please..

Regards,
The Papist.

Dalriada

12-16-2009, 05:09 PM

I must say, I do enjoy the irony of you calling me an infidel, my bead-rattling friend.

Yes, Jesuit plots. The very point of the Jesuit order is to use plots of one kind or another to attack the work of Reformation; do you earnestly deny this?

Murphy

12-16-2009, 05:27 PM

I must say, I do enjoy the irony of you calling me an infidel, my bead-rattling friend.

No irony. It's exactly what you are. Have you a problem with the Holy Rosary?

Yes, Jesuit plots. The very point of the Jesuit order is to use plots of one kind or another to attack the work of Reformation; do you earnestly deny this?

The Jesuit origins trace back to before the Counter-Reformation, though you are right to speak that they truly took the cause to their hearts. Your speak of plots however, is simply not the case.

The Jesuits took upon the cause of fighting the heresies of the "Reformation" and the Dominicans took upon the cause of fighting the Albigensian heresy... what's the difference between the two ;)?

Regards,
The Papist.

Beorn

12-16-2009, 08:31 PM

And they wonder why England was so successful in controlling all they surveyed.

Eldritch

12-16-2009, 08:40 PM

And they wonder why England was so successful in controlling all they surveyed.

Being a bit of an Anglophile it causes me some pain and regret to point this out, but the operative word here indeed is "was".

http://tmcq.co.uk/pictures/chav5.jpg

Dalriada

12-16-2009, 10:01 PM

No irony. It's exactly what you are. Have you a problem with the Holy Rosary?

There's no point in getting into a "yes, you are/no, I'm not" excercise. Suffice to say, my faith is based solely on the Word of God, and not an Imperial Roman Sun-worship cult. That ought to make clear who exactly is the infidel.

I do indeed have a problem with any practise which is claimed to be religious, but which cannot be found within the Word of God.

The Jesuit origins trace back to before the Counter-Reformation, though you are right to speak that they truly took the cause to their hearts. Your speak of plots however, is simply not the case.

Indeed, they were an already existing handy tool with which Rome could begin its anti-Reformation activities; that I do not deny at all. Throughout its history, the Jesuits' most important activites have taken a shadowy and secretive form (in other words, plots).

The Jesuits took upon the cause of fighting the heresies of the "Reformation" and the Dominicans took upon the cause of fighting the Albigensian heresy... what's the difference between the two ;)?

The difference is that the cause of the Jesuits was the very cause of the anti-Christ: to prevent the Word of God from reaching the eyes of the ordinary man and woman. Instead, that fight between Rome and the Albigensians was nothing more than a clash between two heresies. There, quite plainly, is the difference you seek.

Murphy

12-17-2009, 07:27 AM

There's no point in getting into a "yes, you are/no, I'm not" excercise.

Very well. But you Protestants normally love going in circles.

Suffice to say, my faith is based solely on the Word of God, and not an Imperial Roman Sun-worship cult.

I wonder if anyone has told you that it was that "Imperial Roman Sun-worship cult" which canonized the very Word of God you testify to being the basis of your faith!

The Bible is not enough in and of its self my friend. Especially when the Church had already existed for quite some time before the Bible ;).

That ought to make clear who exactly is the infidel.

Clear as day to me. You trace your "church" back to the Reformation. I trace my Church back to Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I do indeed have a problem with any practise which is claimed to be religious, but which cannot be found within the Word of God.

I wonder if you even know what the Rosary truly is?

Indeed, they were an already existing handy tool with which Rome could begin its anti-Reformation activities; that I do not deny at all. Throughout its history, the Jesuits' most important activites have taken a shadowy and secretive form (in other words, plots).

Give me a list of evil Jesuit plots, where there is evidence of Jesuit maneuvering. By the way, do you believe in the Jesuit Oath :D?

The difference is that the cause of the Jesuits was the very cause of the anti-Christ: to prevent the Word of God from reaching the eyes of the ordinary man and woman. Instead, that fight between Rome and the Albigensians was nothing more than a clash between two heresies. There, quite plainly, is the difference you seek.

Humour is lost on you.

Regards,
The Papist.

jagdmesser

10-21-2013, 11:54 AM

Very well. But you Protestants normally love going in circles.

I wonder if anyone has told you that it was that "Imperial Roman Sun-worship cult" which canonized the very Word of God you testify to being the basis of your faith!

The Bible is not enough in and of its self my friend. Especially when the Church had already existed for quite some time before the Bible ;).

Clear as day to me. You trace your "church" back to the Reformation. I trace my Church back to Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I wonder if you even know what the Rosary truly is?

Give me a list of evil Jesuit plots, where there is evidence of Jesuit maneuvering. By the way, do you believe in the Jesuit Oath :D?

Humour is lost on you.

Regards,
The Papist.

jagdmesser

10-21-2013, 12:13 PM

Who was the only man to enter parliment with good intentions?
Guy Fawkes.
If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner. H. L. Mencken
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. H. L. Mencken
Our entire system of politics is so corrupt as to be beyond reform. H. L. Mencken