Europe in 50 years

[nohypocrisy]

How do you imagine it? From a realistic POV of course.

[Atlas]

More brown and conservative.

[Bari]

Sharia laws in several Western countries.

[Damião de Góis]

The same? I can't imagine anything that will change it dramatically in 50 years.

[Goidelic]

Racially & ancestrally obliterated in certain parts.

[Barreldriver]

This is how Europe will be in 50 years:

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/ragnarok1227/230227.jpg

[Brännvin]

Of course, hotter due to global warming..

[kwp_wp]

...probably without us unfortunately:(
unless we'll transform into transhumans until then

[Anthropos]

There are prospects for some betterment. E.g. some people are coming to realise what they lost when they abandoned Christian tradition. Otherwise I don't know. It's really hard to tell, you know. I suppose the EU will become stabilised rather than selfdestruct itself, actually. The latter scenario just seems a little bit too much like wishful thinking to me.

[nohypocrisy]

Sharia laws in several Western countries.

I read somewhere it's already happening in some parts of the UK. Don't know how accurate this is.

[Thorum]

More of this:

qHszsGbBJQo

http://www.document.no/weblogg/archives/bilder/theovangogh.jpg

http://www.tldm.org/News3/TradeCenter.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/politics/images/muslims.jpg

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/danish_cartoon_protest.jpg

[Monolith]

I read somewhere it's already happening in some parts of the UK. Don't know how accurate this is.
I've heard the same for Belgium and Holland.

[Ulf]

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr269/ulfgrimr/1254866701778.jpg

[Thorum]

And the USA in 50 years will see more of this, thanks to Muslims:

Army says 12 dead, 31 injured at Fort Hood (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/)

[Absinthe]

WYiTHtwugzc

[Electronic God-Man]

http://3danimation.e-spaces.com/graphic_design/future_city_downtown.jpg

But everyone is a Negro and Muslim. :D

Yeah, that's right...they don't even need us. :p

[ikki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRSOdylUbmc & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_zhZeRNfSg

Or it wont matter.
Might aswell end everything. Like that harmony of earth and splitting the planet into rocks..

[Gooding]

With hope and prayer, the European people will rise and stamp out the subversives in their midst, expell all hostile outlanders and establish themselves as the dominant people once again..after a thorough uprising and revolt against the multicle establishment and its peons.

[Guapo]

More wars unfortunately, in at least 20 years from now if not less.

[Bari]

I read somewhere it's already happening in some parts of the UK. Don't know how accurate this is.

-

From The Sunday Times September 14, 2008

Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.

Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

Siddiqi said: “We realised that under the Arbitration Act we can make rulings which can be enforced by county and high courts. The act allows disputes to be resolved using alternatives like tribunals. This method is called alternative dispute resolution, which for Muslims is what the sharia courts are.”

The disclosure that Muslim courts have legal powers in Britain comes seven months after Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was pilloried for suggesting that the establishment of sharia in the future “seems unavoidable” in Britain.

In July, the head of the judiciary, the lord chief justice, Lord Phillips, further stoked controversy when he said that sharia could be used to settle marital and financial disputes.

In fact, Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and inheritance to nuisance neighbours.

It has also emerged that tribunal courts have settled six cases of domestic violence between married couples, working in tandem with the police investigations.

Siddiqi said he expected the courts to handle a greater number of “smaller” criminal cases in coming years as more Muslim clients approach them. “All we are doing is regulating community affairs in these cases,” said Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of the tribunal.

Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

Politicians and church leaders expressed concerns that this could mark the beginnings of a “parallel legal system” based on sharia for some British Muslims.

Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so.”

Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said: “I think it’s appalling. I don’t think arbitration that is done by sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state.”

There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.

Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.

In the six cases of domestic violence, Siddiqi said the judges ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders. There was no further punishment.

In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.

Siddiqi said that in the domestic violence cases, the advantage was that marriages were saved and couples given a second chance.

Inayat Bunglawala, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “The MCB supports these tribunals. If the Jewish courts are allowed to flourish, so must the sharia ones.”

Additional reporting: Helen Brooks

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

[Eldritch]

...probably without us unfortunately:(
unless we'll transform into transhumans until then

Are you a Transhumanist? :)

When European welfare states inevitably collapse due to 3rd World immigration, I see native Europeans self-segregating again. There'll be pockets of Africa and the Middle East around the continent, with a lot resources spent of conflict management and containment.

The other alternative is a mongrel race of barbarians living in the ruins of European civilization. Or possibly some combination of the two.

[kwp_wp]

Are you a Transhumanist? :).

No. But at least I found some of their ideas interesting and inviting...;)

[Östsvensk]

http://www.bgf.nu/montage/bilder/asyls.jpg

And I guess this will be our grandchildren:

http://www.killsometime.com/Pictures/images/pic1093.jpg

[Eldritch]

http://www.bgf.nu/montage/bilder/asyls.jpg


That remind me of this amusing image:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/g333/Suomi_kaikille.jpg

Open the borders -- say no to Fascism! Finland belongs to everybody!

[Äike]

In 50 years, pure unmixed Estonians will be a clear minority. Most "Estonians" will have Russian blood in them. My prediction: 25% pure Estonians, 65% mongrels(Estonians + Russians) and 10% unmixed Russians. "Estonians" would be darker then some Southern Europeans today, because of the Russian blood. I truly hope that I'm too pessimistic.

Then the main fact: European welfare states will collapse.

[Matritensis]

"Estonians" would be darker then some Southern Europeans today, because of the Russian blood. I truly hope that I'm too pessimistic.

If that's not a ridiculous statement,I don't know what is.

[Tony]

It's very difficult to grasp one's future , go figure that of a continent , for sure , at least by checking the actual long term trends , Europe is doomed to be less white and poorer , perhaps with a tiny minority elite of ultra-rich surrounded by masses of desperados , both natives and foreigners , sort of South American banana republic or if you like history a bread and circus scenario like in the last days of Rome.
The only thing that might stop it is a major financial/economic global crisis or a third world war.

[Äike]

If that's not a ridiculous statement,I don't know what is.

You haven't met many Russians, haven't you? I just came from a party that had loads of Russians and I still claim that they're extremely dark compared to other Eastern Europeans. I've also lived in a part of Tallinn that was full of Russians. I now live in a nicer part of Tallinn.

You have maybe seen 10-20 Russians during your lifetime. While I live in Tallinn (only 50% Estonian). There's no point in arguing with a person who has lived next to Russians for most of his life and has seen tens of thousands of Russians.

[Matritensis]

I still claim that they're extremely dark compared to other Eastern Europeans

That's simply not true.I've been to Russia twice,and don't forget that I live in Helsinki and there's a sizable population of Russians here as well,and in most cases you can barely distinguish many of them from the Finns by the face alone.Of course they act differently and dress differently,that's all.You could say that I'm quite dark compared to the average Eastern European,but you certainly cannot say that of most Russians.

[Äike]

That's simply not true.I've been to Russia twice,and don't forget that I live in Helsinki and there's a sizable population of Russians here as well,and in most cases you can barely distinguish many of them from the Finns by the face alone.Of course they act differently and dress differently,that's all.You could say that I'm quite dark compared to the average Eastern European,but you certainly cannot say that of most Russians.

Well, the majority of the Russian unmixed white population is Baltid, thus they look similar to us. Also, NW-Russians are genetically Finnic. Thus light haired, light eyed and they look like Finns. Sadly, NW-Russians make only a small portion of the overall Russian population. My point is, the majority of the Russian population is mixed. Still majority Europid, but non-white traits are common.

Russian immigrants in Helsinki and Russian immigrants in Estonia are different. The most logical source of Russian immigrants to Finland is probably St. Petersburg.

While Russians were brought to Estonia from all kinds of places. Southern Russia, central Russia, etc.

I have interacted and still interact with Russians, daily. This can't be compared with a tourism trip to Russia.

[Osweo]

This is how Europe will be in 50 years:

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/ragnarok1227/230227.jpg

I somehow doubt it...

But it doesn't hurt to have an ideal to aim for! :p

[Basil]

My point is, the majority of the Russian population is mixed.
Mixed with whom? :D I seriously doubt that there are peoples in Russia who don't fit in European pigmentation standards. Tatars, North Caucasians and even North Siberian Mongoloids are hardly darker than Southern Europeans.

Still majority Europid, but non-white traits are common.

What non-white traits do you mean? Slanty east-baltic eyes with epicanthic fold and prominent cheek-bones? :D

Also, NW-Russians are genetically Finnic. Thus light haired, light eyed and they look like Finns.
...
Southern Russia, central Russia, etc.

I'll reveal unpleasant truth to you: regarding eye colour, for example, Central Russians as well as Southern Russians don't differ much from NW Russians.
% of light eyes
zone 1 - 49,
zone 12 - 47,
zone 9 - 50 (even higher percent than NW Russians have).
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9691/93386174.jpg

[Bosnjak]

You haven't met many Russians, haven't you? I just came from a party that had loads of Russians and I still claim that they're extremely dark compared to other Eastern Europeans. I've also lived in a part of Tallinn that was full of Russians. I now live in a nicer part of Tallinn.

You have maybe seen 10-20 Russians during your lifetime. While I live in Tallinn (only 50% Estonian). There's no point in arguing with a person who has lived next to Russians for most of his life and has seen tens of thousands of Russians

can you post some pics of these Russians in your city and maybe compare it with pics of ethnic Estonians? that would be good.....

[Anthropos]

can you post some pics of these Russians in your city and maybe compare it with pics of ethnic Estonians? that would be good.....

Yeah, because then we'll sort it out once and for all, that ethnic conflicts are nothing but a question of how people look! :rolleyes: I'm not attacking anyone here, but I'm pretty sick of these grossly simplified 'discussions' about complicated matters in terms of comparing photos like that. I'd be interested in a real discussion, especially if we can have some Russians participate in it as well. There must be historical and political aspects of conflict between Estonia and Russia that are much more relevant and much more interesting.

[Äike]

Mixed with whom? :D I seriously doubt that there are peoples in Russia who don't fit in European pigmentation standards. Tatars, North Caucasians and even North Siberian Mongoloids are hardly darker than Southern Europeans.

I'm talking about black hair and black eye color. The dark Russians make 40-50% of the Russian population here, but dark traits are dominant. Thus the local Russian population will become darker and so will the Estonian population after a while.


What non-white traits do you mean? Slanty east-baltic eyes with epicanthic fold and prominent cheek-bones? :D

East-Baltid eyes don't have epithantic folds. The reason why Russia has the most East-Baltids, is the climate. Inner-continental climate is a lot colder. Extreme cold conditions cause borealisation. East-Baltids are European, if they wouldn't be, then you'd have hard time finding a white Russian.

The non-white traits that I'm talking about are black eyes, black hair color(while Southern Europeans have dark brunette hair) and Tatar traits among some.


I'll reveal unpleasant truth to you: regarding eye colour, for example, Central Russians as well as Southern Russians don't differ much from NW Russians.
% of light eyes
zone 1 - 49,
zone 12 - 47,
zone 9 - 50 (even higher percent than NW Russians have).
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9691/93386174.jpg

Is your map more true then this (http://contexts.org/graphicsociology/files/2009/01/westernparadigm_blue_eye_color_map.jpg) map?

[Basil]

I'm talking about black hair and black eye color. The dark Russians make 40-50% of the Russian population here, but dark traits are dominant. Thus the local Russian population will become darker and so will the Estonian population after a while.

I've never met black haired and black eyed Russian in my life. Russians may have light brown eyes and dark hair, but not black. I know that in Estonia every Russian-speaker is Russian by default, thus Tatars and Armenians are "Russians" too. Estonians are way too ethnocentric and selfish to distinguish who is Russian and who isn't. But sorry, dude, I would believe in what you have written about 50% of dark Russians if only all Estonian Russians were pure ethnic Armenians hailed straight from Yerevan.

East-Baltid eyes don't have epithantic folds. The reason why Russia has the most East-Baltids, is the climate. Inner-continental climate is a lot colder. Extreme cold conditions cause borealisation.
You repeat yourself and do not make any sense.

East-Baltids are European
Yes, they are Europeans and borderline Europoids.

Is your map more true then this map?
Percentage frequency of light eyes provided by me is after Bunak. I know for sure that it's not based on nothing. I don't know how relevant your map is, but still it shows quite clearly that majority of Russians who are darker than Southern Europeans doesn't exist anywhere except your mind.

[Freomæg]

In 50 years we'll either be in a much, much better state, or a much, much worse one. Personally I believe that we're approaching the end of our aeon very soon and that the tipping point from here to the next will either signify some kind of mass-enlightenment/spiritual-evolution or the complete destruction of civilisation as we know it. I'm looking forward to it - things cannot go on as they are.

[Äike]

I've never met black haired and black eyed Russian in my life. Russians may have light brown eyes and dark hair, but not black. I know that in Estonia every Russian-speaker is Russian by default, thus Tatars and Armenians are "Russians" too. Estonians are way too ethnocentric and selfish to distinguish who is Russian and who isn't. But sorry, dude, I would believe in what you have written about 50% of dark Russians if only all Estonian Russians were pure ethnic Armenians hailed straight from Yerevan.


There are only about 1000 Armenians in Estonia, under 1000 Azerbaijanis and 2500 Tatars. By the way, I can make a difference between Russians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis.

I can somehow believe that you haven't met a black eyed Russian if you live in some small place. But you've never met a black haired Russian? Black hair is more common among Russians, then black eyes.

[Basil]

There are only about 1000 Armenians in Estonia, under 1000 Azerbaijanis and 2500 Tatars.
It's official statistics. Some of them, especially half-breeds, tend to consider themselves Russians.

I can somehow believe that you haven't met a black eyed Russian if you live in some small place.
I reside in the town with almost 1 million population.

But you've never met a black haired Russian? Black hair is more common among Russians, then black eyes.
Maybe we have different ideas concerning which colour is black. As for me, I distinguish dark colour and proper black. Black hair is utterly rare among Russians for sure.
The second part of the map you linked to shows Russians are typical Central Europeans when it goes for hair colour. Is black hair common in Germany in your opinion?
http://i034.radikal.ru/0712/c3/6bdab5b5cdf4.jpg

[Äike]

It's official statistics. Some of them, especially half-breeds, tend to consider themselves Russians.

I reside in the town with almost 1 million population.

Maybe we have different ideas concerning which colour is black. As for me, I distinguish dark colour and proper black. Black hair is utterly rare among Russians for sure.
The second part of the map you linked to shows Russians are typical Central Europeans when it goes for hair colour. Is black hair common in Germany in your opinion?
http://i034.radikal.ru/0712/c3/6bdab5b5cdf4.jpg

Interesting. I know that black hair and black eyes are rare among Russians, but I stated that I have seen such individuals. Dark Brunette hair and brown eyes are a bit more common. Although a "true" Russian is blue eyed, pale skinned and brown haired. Am I right?

Anyway, my final point is: I'm an European Preservationist, thus I don't support mixing between Estonians and Russians. Because that would destroy light eyes and blond hair among Estonians. No offense towards the brown eyed and dark brunette Russians(100% European). I just want to preserve European ethnicities culturally and physically.

Basil, what do you think about the Russians in Estonia and elsewhere? Should they return to Russia? Should they integrate? Or should they assimilate?

[Svarog]

Yeah, because then we'll sort it out once and for all, that ethnic conflicts are nothing but a question of how people look! :rolleyes: I'm not attacking anyone here, but I'm pretty sick of these grossly simplified 'discussions' about complicated matters in terms of comparing photos like that. I'd be interested in a real discussion, especially if we can have some Russians participate in it as well. There must be historical and political aspects of conflict between Estonia and Russia that are much more relevant and much more interesting.

Post of the day :thumb001:

[Äike]

There must be historical and political aspects of conflict between Estonia and Russia that are much more relevant and much more interesting.

Russia has been messing with Estonia/Estonians since 1030 and did a pretty successful genocide on us during the USSR times. The Estonian population dropped from 1.2 million to 800 000.

Estonia has always been the victim. Estonia has never been capable of doing any harm to the Russian Empire. Thus the Russian-Estonian history has been rather one sided aggression by the Russians. That sums it up pretty nicely.

[Basil]

Although a "true" Russian is blue eyed, pale skinned and brown haired. Am I right?

"True Russian" is something very vague. I have relatives with dark, light and even red hair. They all are true Russians. But type described by you is indeed very common here.

Basil, what do you think about the Russians in Estonia and elsewhere? Should they return to Russia? Should they integrate? Or should they assimilate?

Those who want to return should obviously go back. The rest of them should integrate. I don't see any other solution of the problem.

[Osweo]

Black hair is more common among Russians, then black eyes.

Interesting. I know that black hair and black eyes are rare among Russians,
:confused:

I lived eight years in suburban Moscow, and saw very few dark haired Russians. Those I know have light eyes anyway and very pale skin.

[Äike]

:confused:

I lived eight years in suburban Moscow, and saw very few dark haired Russians. Those I know have light eyes anyway and very pale skin.

Maybe the Commies did some kind of "cleansing" among the Russian population of Russia and sent all the "unpure" Russians to other Soviet Republics, like Estonia and Latvia etc. ;)

I've lived in Tallinn for most of my life and I spot such black haired individuals daily. Although the brown eyed dark brunette and blue eyed brown haired types are way more common.

The fact is, during USSR times, Russians came to Estonia from all over Russia. Some may have come from borderline areas and thus have black hair.

[esaima]

I've never met black haired and black eyed Russian in my life. Russians may have light brown eyes and dark hair, but not black. I know that in Estonia every Russian-speaker is Russian by default, thus Tatars and Armenians are "Russians" too. Estonians are way too ethnocentric and selfish to distinguish who is Russian and who isn't. But sorry, dude, I would believe in what you have written about 50% of dark Russians if only all Estonian Russians were pure ethnic Armenians hailed straight from Yerevan.

You repeat yourself and do not make any sense.

Yes, they are Europeans and borderline Europoids.

Percentage frequency of light eyes provided by me is after Bunak. I know for sure that it's not based on nothing. I don't know how relevant your map is, but still it shows quite clearly that majority of Russians who are darker than Southern Europeans doesn't exist anywhere except your mind.

Of course, black hair color is not russianlike. I think I know Russians.;) I have lived myself for 8 years in Tallinn, there were many Russians in my place. Black hair can be seen in Egypt, Pakistan, Thailand etc, etc, 90 per cent in the world, but not among Russians.