Linguistic Iberia through Time (Map Summary)

[Comte Arnau]

Centuries before the Roman invasion, the Iberian language was spoken in the East, probably dialectalized in Northern and Southern varieties. The Vasconic language or languages (mainly Aquitanian or Proto-Basque) was spoken in the North and far beyond the Pyrenees. In the West, Hispano-Celtic language(s) were spoken, some upon pre-Celtic Indo-European languages, like Lusitanian, some upon the Tartessian language. There were Greek colonies in the Eastern shores, and the growing importance of Phoenicians/Carthaginians in the South-East would force Rome to invade the peninsula.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/IBlang300BC.png


After the Roman invasion, which took place between 218 BC and the first century. Obviously this is a simplistic one, but basically Phoenician was expulsed, and Iberian and Celtic varieties were replaced by Latin. There were probably Greek and Hebrew speakers too, and later Germanic and Alanic languages would be spoken by some people.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/IBlang200AD.png


In the 8th century, the Peninsula mainly spoke Vulgar Latin/Proto-Romance varieties, forged upon pre-Roman languages and partially influenced by the Germanic languages. The Muslim invasion, mainly by Arabized Berbers from northern Africa, would mean the evolution of those Proto-Romances in the North, but also in the South -the Mozarabic language(s)- alongside Arabic in its Andalusi variety. Sephardic Hebrew was also spoken. And Basque continued in the North, losing ground, alongside Aragonese and Castilian.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/IBlang1150AD.png


The Reconquest would mean the spread southwards of the Romance languages born in the North, making Arabic and Hebrew lose ground and assimilating the Romance varieties of Al-Andalus (Mozarabic). By the 14th century, Andalusi was only spoken around Granada. In the north-eastern area, near the Pyrenees, there were also Occitan-speaking settlers. This could be seen as the setting point of current ethnicities in the Peninsula.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/IBlang1300AD.png


The expansion of Castilian caused the assimilation of the Leonese and Aragonese territories, and nowadays these languages are facing extinction. Portuguese separated from Galician, and nowadays many consider them two different languages. After the Bourbon dinasty arrived in Spain in the 18th century, it was decided to follow the French way and try to assimilate the whole kingdom to one language, the Castilian. Nowadays, Castilian (internationally known as Spanish) is the official language of Spain, while Catalan, Basque and Galician are official in most of the territory where they're spoken.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/IBlang2000AD.png

[Amapola]

Good post, but you know I could not help myself remarking about the "andalusi variety" :P Andalusi-romance varieties... it's funny how those romance varieties went on to be called mozarabe instead of keeping the romance variety name that they should have had.

[Kadu]

Centuries before the Roman invasion, the Iberian language was spoken in the East, probably dialectalized in Northern and Southern varieties. The Vasconic language or languages (mainly Aquitanian or Proto-Basque) was spoken in the North and far beyond the Pyrenees. In the West, Hispano-Celtic language(s) were spoken, some upon pre-Celtic Indo-European languages, like Lusitanian, some upon the Tartessian language. There were Greek colonies in the Eastern shores, and the growing importance of Phoenicians/Carthaginians in the South-East would force Rome to invade the peninsula.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/IBlang300BC.png

Another good map of that period

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Kadu_album/586px-Prehispanic_languages.gif

[Stefan]

Thanks for the description. I have ancestry from Galicia and Andalusia, so it is nice to know the history of the linguistics of those areas as well as the rest of Iberia.

[Osweo]

I'm curious as to the presence of non-Celtic substrata in the centre and northwest; has anything been observed in the toponymy of these regions to suggest what was spoken there before Celtic?

I've seen it written that there was a fair bit of Iberian in the Celtiberian inscriptions found so far, so I suppose we might allow for Iberian there, but what about up in Asturia or Leon?

Is it really possible to divide the Celtiberians from the 'Other Celts' of the peninsula? Is the distinction based on material culture?

[Damião de Góis]

I'm curious as to the presence of non-Celtic substrata in the centre and northwest; has anything been observed in the toponymy of these regions to suggest what was spoken there before Celtic?

I've seen it written that there was a fair bit of Iberian in the Celtiberian inscriptions found so far, so I suppose we might allow for Iberian there, but what about up in Asturia or Leon?

Is it really possible to divide the Celtiberians from the 'Other Celts' of the peninsula? Is the distinction based on material culture?

Well, according to your fellow coutryman in the other thread this is all irrelevant anyway.

[Comte Arnau]

I'm curious as to the presence of non-Celtic substrata in the centre and northwest; has anything been observed in the toponymy of these regions to suggest what was spoken there before Celtic?

I don't know much about pre-Celtic languages specifically, but apparently many of the toponyms are Celtic, and that's one of the arguments of those who defend the 'Celticness' of Lusitanian. Others simply say they were Celticized very early, and point to a possible relation with Italic languages.


Is it really possible to divide the Celtiberians from the 'Other Celts' of the peninsula? Is the distinction based on material culture?

Certainly. Celtiberians were among the most important, obviously influenced by their Iberian neighbours. They lived in a central area, from north to south-east, mainly around modern Soria and Guadalajara. But there were definitely offsprings from their group in other parts of the Peninsula. The culture and language had a personality of their own, and there seem to be some old Indo-European traits in that Celtic language that don't appear in other Celtic languages.

[Osweo]

Well, according to your fellow coutryman in the other thread this is all irrelevant anyway.
I truly hope you can tell the difference between me and such idiots. :(

I ask the above questions for purely academic reasons. Simple curiosity. NOT to determine 'who can marry my ueber nordid daughter'. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Muchos gracias, Ibex!

By the way, I have a map here which shows the Roman period placenames, but unfortunately it's incomplete:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4067/ancienthispania1849.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4067/ancienthispania1849.jpg

Do any of you have the complete version, or know where it is? I saved it years ago, i can't remember where.

The names seem solidly Celtic to me, in the regions in question.

[Comte Arnau]

I truly hope you can tell the difference between me and such idiots. :(


Lol, don't worry about that. :)



EDIT: Muchos gracias, Ibex!

If in Spanish, it's muchas gracias.

If in my language, it's moltes gràcies. :)


By the way, I have a map here which shows the Roman period placenames, but unfortunately it's incomplete:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4067/ancienthispania1849.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4067/ancienthispania1849.jpg

Do any of you have the complete version, or know where it is? I saved it years ago, i can't remember where.

Try this:

http://www.northvegr.org/lore/maps/imgs/ancient_hispania_1849.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

^ The link I gave you isn't working any more, it seems.

Substitute it for this: http://www.mapacartografico.com/album/europa/espana/ancient_hispania_1849.jpg

[Treffie]

A CASE FOR TARTESSIAN AS A CELTIC LANGUAGE - John T. Koch

pdf (http://ifc.dpz.es/recursos/publicaciones/29/54/26koch.pdf)

[Comte Arnau]

A CASE FOR TARTESSIAN AS A CELTIC LANGUAGE - John T. Koch

pdf (http://ifc.dpz.es/recursos/publicaciones/29/54/26koch.pdf)

Nice link. :thumb001: It looks like an interesting theory, and I can only regret not having a wider knowledge on the Celtic branch in order to judge by myself more properly. Do you have any personal opinion on this, Treffie?

[Osweo]

I've skimmed it, and am not immensely impressed.

We already knew that there was a Celtic presence in Tartessus, but this says nothing of what was there beforehand and coeval with Celtic, nor does it prove that Celtic started out in Iberia, spreading from there to Britain.

I find the offered 'translations' unsatisfying.

[Comte Arnau]

I take your word and Tref's as dogma in this. At least until my knowledge on Celtic linguistics grows a bit more. (You know, I'm rather from the Basco-Iberian side :D)

[Treffie]

Nice link. :thumb001: It looks like an interesting theory, and I can only regret not having a wider knowledge on the Celtic branch in order to judge by myself more properly. Do you have any personal opinion on this, Treffie?

As a former student from the same uni as John T. Koch, I'm obviously going to be ever-so-slightly biased :p But I think his theory does have some credence, as O'Donnell (http://www.wales.ac.uk/Resources/Documents/Research/ODonnell.pdf) has also suggested that the Atlantic Zone may have been the Celtic core rather than the periphery. Interesting stuff, but then again, even academics have an agenda.

[Comte Arnau]

As a former student from the same uni as John T. Koch, I'm obviously going to be ever-so-slightly biased :p But I think his theory does have some credence, as O'Donnell (http://www.wales.ac.uk/Resources/Documents/Research/ODonnell.pdf) has also suggested that the Atlantic Zone may have been the Celtic core rather than the periphery. Interesting stuff, but then again, even academics have an agenda.

Thanks. I see plausability, but as I said, I really can't form an opinion myself. It is good to hear from you both, and interesting stuff, true. :thumb001:

[Comte Arnau]

Some links.

Academies/Institutions:

Spanish - Royal Spanish Academy (RAE, Real Academia Española, 1713): http://www.rae.es (http://www.rae.es/rae.html)
Portuguese - Lisbon Academy of Sciences (Academia das Ciências de Lisboa, 1779): http://www.acad-ciencias.pt/

Galician as a Portuguese dialect - Galician Academy of the Portuguese Language (Academia Galega da Língua Portuguesa, 2008): http://www.academiagalega.org (http://www.academiagalega.org/)
Catalan - Institute of Catalan Studies (IEC, Institut d'Estudis Catalans, 1907): http://www.iec.cat (http://www.iec.cat/activitats/entrada.asp)

Valencian Catalan - Valencian Academy of the Language (AVL, Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua, 1998): http://www.avl.gva.es/
Galician - Royal Galician Academy (RAG, Real Academia Galega, 1906): http://www.realacademiagalega.org
Basque - Royal Academy of the Basque Language (Euskaltzaindia, 1919): http://www.euskaltzaindia.net/
Asturian - Academy of the Asturian Language (Academia de la Llingua Asturiana, 1980): http://www.academiadelallingua.com/
Aragonese - Academy of the Aragonese Language* (Academia de l'Aragonés, 2006): http://www.academiadelaragones.org/
Aran Gascon - General Council of Aran** (Conselh Generau d'Aran, 1991): http://www.conselharan.org/

* Not an official one, as official language management will be addressed in the near future by the Consejo Superior de las Lenguas de Aragón
** Not a language academy, but the local Government of Aran Valley


Official dictionaries (with free online version):

Spanish: DRAE (Diccionario de la Real Academia Española) (http://www.rae.es/rae.html)
Catalan: DIEC (Diccionari de l'Institut d'Estudis Catalans) (http://dlc.iec.cat/)
Galician: DRAG (Diccionario da Real Academia Galega) (http://www.edu.xunta.es/diccionarios/index_rag.html)
Asturian: DALLA (Diccionariu de la Llingua Asturiana) (http://www.academiadelallingua.com/diccionariu/)

--
Wikipedia

in Spanish: http://es.wikipedia.org (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Portada)
in Portuguese: http://pt.wikipedia.org
in Catalan: http://ca.wikipedia.org (http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portada)
in Galician: http://gl.wikipedia.org (http://gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portada)
in Basque: http://eu.wikipedia.org (http://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azala)

in Asturian: http://ast.wikipedia.org (http://ast.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portada)
in Aragonese: http://an.wikipedia.org (http://an.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portalada)
in Occitan: http://oc.wikipedia.org (http://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acu%C3%A8lh)
in Mirandese: http://mwl.wikipedia.org (http://mwl.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1igina_Percipal)
in Estremaduran: http://ext.wikipedia.org (http://ext.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1gina_prencipal)

[Comte Arnau]

Adding to this old thread some interesting good maps with Pre-Roman inscriptions, from the Hesperia Paleohispanic Languages databank (http://hesperia.ucm.es/en/index.php).

General map of Pre-Latin Inscriptions.
Indicates all the places in which inscriptions in a language other than Latin have appeared, both those in Palaeohispanic languages and in Greek and Phoenician.
http://hesperia.ucm.es/img/Mapa_General_Inscripciones_Prelatinas.jpg

Map with isoglosses of the Iberian language.
Indicates places where there are inscriptions with linguistic features characteristic of the Iberian language, personal names formed with elements of the Iberian onomastic repertoire, some particularly frequent and clearly segmented suffixes and, in southern Iberian inscriptions, the S56 sign in an end position which behaves like a suffix.
http://hesperia.ucm.es/img/Isoglosas_ibericas.jpg

Inscriptions before the 4th century BC
Indicates the places in which there are Phoenician and Greek inscriptions dating from this period, some (although not many) strictly speaking Palaeohispanic inscriptions and the group of SW inscriptions
http://hesperia.ucm.es/img/Mapas_Cronologicos_Inscripciones_1.jpg

Inscriptions from the 4th and 3rd centuries BC
Demonstrates the progressive increase in Palaeohispanic inscriptions, with the exception of those of the SW, which disappear.
http://hesperia.ucm.es/img/Mapas_Cronologicos_Inscripciones_2.jpg

Inscriptions after the 3rd century BC and Latin inscriptions from the Republic
Demonstrates an enormous expansion of Palaeohispanic epigraphy, the appearance of two new groups within this: that of inscriptions in the Celtiberian language, both in the script adapted from Levantine Iberian and in the Latin alphabet, and the occasional inscriptions in the Lusitanian language and the Latin alphabet that belong already to the imperial era.
http://hesperia.ucm.es/img/Mapas_Cronologicos_Inscripciones_3.jpg

[Damião de Góis]

What is "Ceca de Salacia" ?

[Methmatician]

So does modern Galician sound like Portuguese and is it closer to Portuguese than modern Spanish?

[Gaita]

Any reason why there's nothing for the NW of Iberia?

[Damião de Góis]

So does modern Galician sound like Portuguese and is it closer to Portuguese than modern Spanish?

Sounds more like spanish nowadays, but closer to portuguese on written mode.

[Comte Arnau]

What is "Ceca de Salacia" ?

The mint from Alcácer do Sal.


So does modern Galician sound like Portuguese and is it closer to Portuguese than modern Spanish?

It is still the same language for many linguists. Modern Standard Portuguese and Standard Galician are, however, quite different phonologically.


Any reason why there's nothing for the NW of Iberia?

Lack of inscriptions. The only Hispanic Celts to use an alphabet were the Celtiberians, in the central area of the Peninsula, because they took it from North-Eastern Iberians.