A Kashmiri and a Calabrese - compare and contrast

[Tooting Carmen]

Salman Rushdie, Kashmiri author
http://www.boxofficeindia.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Salman-Rushdie.jpg

Giulio Serra, regional councillor of Calabria
http://www.consiglioregionale.calabria.it/upload/fotoconsiglieri/SERRA%20Giulio.jpg

[Sikeliot]

That is a VERY atypical Indian
The Calabrese looks normal for Calabria.. Dinaro-Med, minor Armenoid influence.

[Tooting Carmen]

That is a VERY atypical Indian


You can find his look with some frequency in Kashmir, where his ancestors are from, but not really in the rest of the country.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

He is an extreme for Kashmir too.. he looks Georgian to me.

[GrebluBro]

This guy is from extreme upper class of Kashmiri people.
I believe 15% of Kahmiris can be as white skinned as southern Italians. But still most of them cant pass in Calabria because of Indid features

[Tooting Carmen]

He is an extreme for Kashmir too.. he looks Georgian to me.

When I say 'with some frequency', I mean circa 5%, but obviously his phenotype is >1% in the rest of India.

[Tooting Carmen]

Anyway, does anyone else think there is a certain resemblance between the two men, except for the nose of course?

[GrebluBro]

Left one is Kashmiri and right one is italian :lol:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo/21757512.cms

[Sikeliot]

Anyway, does anyone else think there is a certain resemblance between the two men, except for the nose of course?

No. The Kashmiri man looks more Persian, while the Calabrese looks as one would expect; some sort of ancient West Asian-SE Euro Med mixture.

[GrebluBro]

Anyway, does anyone else think there is a certain resemblance between the two men, except for the nose of course?

Salman Rushdie doesn't look south Asian in any way. He is white or Levant IMO despite born as ethnic-Kashmiri. I see only small resemblance between these two

[Tooting Carmen]

Salman Rushdie doesn't look south Asian in any way.

His nose does. I'd still say he looks slightly more South Asian than e.g. Hrithik Roshan, who in both pigmentation and facial traits looks completely unlike any Indian I've met.

[GrebluBro]

His nose does. I'd still say he looks slightly more South Asian than e.g. Hrithik Roshan, who in both pigmentation and facial traits looks completely unlike any Indian I've met.
may be...
How about other Kashmiri with Italain woman in post #8.

[Tooting Carmen]

may be...
How about other Kashmiri with Italain woman in post #8.

Interesting, to say the least. Who are they?

[GrebluBro]

Interesting, to say the least. Who are they?
not sure about them..But 100% sure about ethnicity

[kabeiros]

Giulio Serra, regional councillor of Calabria
http://www.consiglioregionale.calabria.it/upload/fotoconsiglieri/SERRA%20Giulio.jpg

This guy looks like Elias Koteas, a Greek-Canadian actor who trace his origin to Mani, Peloponnese
http://www.zapster.it/multimedia/3000/2971/big/Elias_Koteas---07.jpg

[Anthropologique]

That is a VERY atypical Indian
The Calabrese looks normal for Calabria.. Dinaro-Med, minor Armenoid influence.

VERY atypical ... rare.

[Shah-Jehan]

That is a VERY atypical Indian
The Calabrese looks normal for Calabria.. Dinaro-Med, minor Armenoid influence.

He is atypical for Indians but, very typical for Kasmiris...

[TheBlondeSalad]

Interesting, to say the least. Who are they?

The girl is an actress and her name is Asia Argento (Dario Argento's daughter) :)

[Tooting Carmen]

The girl is an actress and her name is Asia Argento (Dario Argento's daughter) :)

Thanks.

[kabeiros]

He is atypical for Indians but, very typical for Kasmiris... Buahahaha

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00routesdata/1900_1999/partition/refugees/kashmiris.jpg
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050130/ind1.jpg
http://www.imow.org/dynamic/user_images/user_images_file_name_4607.jpg
http://www.milligazette.com/image2003/2004/96_J&K-kashmiris-pray-for-t.jpg
http://image.guim.co.uk/Guardian/world/gallery/2008/apr/02/photography/GD6779080@epa01302475-Kashmiri--6640.jpg

[GrebluBro]

^15% of Kashmiri can look like that very-white looking Indian.
Those kind of people are upper-class or high caste ..you can't expect them in streets much.

I still call that 15% atypical..

[Tooting Carmen]

I did already say he is extreme even for Kashmir. A more average Kashmiri look would be something like this:
http://oi39.tinypic.com/2jeqoo4.jpg

[SardiniaAtlantis]

LOL this thread makes me want tomato chutney rice.

[Shah-Jehan]

^15% of Kashmiri can look like that very-white looking Indian.
Those kind of people are upper-class or high caste ..you can't expect them in streets much.

I still call that 15% atypical..
except 70% of Kashmiris are made up of Kashmiri Pandits, high caste...

[GrebluBro]

except 70% of Kashmiris are made up of Kashmiri Pandits, high caste...

Not all high caste people can have very-white skin or Levant/Sicilian phenotype..
I have seen many high-caste Punjabis look like Punjabi Dalit

[kabeiros]

except 70% of Kashmiris are made up of Kashmiri Pandits, high cast http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/00011/ARV_PC_PANDIT_11027f.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/KashmirPundit1895BritishLibrary.jpg
http://indialatest.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/kashmiri-pandits-during-a-peaceful-demonstration-65221.jpg

[GrebluBro]

[IMG]
--

Do you agree with 15% ??
I mean not average Greek but kinda very-white skin with phenotype atypical Southern European

[Arcadefire]

Wow. Skin pigmentation has nothing to do with your caste. Kashmiris are significantly lighter than most Indians but thats hardly saying anything. Why is it always people from the southern parts of India who come up with these wild claims about there being white people in northern India ffs.

Kashmiri hindus are all pandits (meaning they do not belong to any caste other then Brahmins). THe muslims are Irano-Afghans/Pashtuns/Dards (who are part of the elite muslim groups .

The population of Jammu and Kashmir is roughly around 10 mil. Your assessment of there being 1.5 million salman rushdee around is inaccurate. Sto trying to white wash Indians lol. No one is going to buy into it.

[GrebluBro]

Wow. Skin pigmentation has nothing to do with your caste. Kashmiris are significantly lighter than most Indians but thats hardly saying anything. Why is it always people from the southern parts of India who come up with these wild claims about there being white people in northern India ffs.

The population of Jammu and Kashmir is roughly around 10 mil. Your assessment of there being 1.5 million salman rushdee around is inaccurate. Sto trying to white wash Indians lol. No one is going to buy into it.

Wtf..when did I say that there are white people in north India..They are sand niggers too just like anyone from Bangladesh, south India, etc.

Here the thread is about comparison of atypical looking Indian with atypical looking Italian.
here atypical means 1% of India and 15% of Kashmiri.. I compared them with very dark (atypical features too) Greek or Levantine..I didn't compare average North Indian (brownie) with average Greek (whites).

Did you complete high school at least with decent grades??

Such a dumb interpretation of what I said...stfu

[Arcadefire]

Wtf..when did I say that there are white people in north India..They are sand niggers too just like anyone from Bangladesh, south India, etc.

Here the thread is about comparison of atypical looking Indian with atypical looking Italian.
here atypical means 1% of India and 15% of Kashmiri.. I compared them with very dark (atypical features too) Greek or Levantine..I didn't compare average North Indian (brownie) with average Greek (whites).

Did you complete high school at least with decent grades??

Such a dumb interpretation of what I said...stfu

Please go home, you are drunk my dravidian friend. I just told you that your assessment of 15% is high. Have you been to Kashmir or the surrounding regions?

[GrebluBro]

Please go home, you are drunk my dravidian friend. I just told you that your assessment of 15% is high. Have you been to Kashmir or the surrounding regions?

So you use the term "dravidian" with the belief that "dravidian" is a slur word which could hurt south Indians :lol:
Alright, I already know your narrow minded attitude (dumb) and poor interpretation skills.

Here 15% is not Southern European looking. that means atypical Kashmiris who can pass as atypical Levant or very dark atypical Greek.
here "atypical" means Greek people themselves would find it hard to recognize fellow atypical-Greek looking person when they didn't know who he/she is in streets/malls.

[cally]

You can always see the Indid around the mouth area

[noman.rasheed]

Ever heard of Suddhan of Kashmir? :ranger:

[Arcadefire]

"Dravidian" being the term which defines your linguistic /cultural group.
Lol its funny because you are pulling your statements out of your ass. THese statements hold no merit because :

a. You have not been to Kashmir, or the other regions
b. You brought up the topic of caste when that other guy presented you with actual typical looking Kashmiris lol.

I can see right through you.

[GrebluBro]

You can always see the Indid around the mouth area

Ya that is more visible when they smile..
You cant see it clearly when they keep their face like you (sorry if not you) in your avatar :lol:

[cally]

Ya that is more visible when they smile..
You cant see it clearly when they keep their face like you (sorry if not you) in your avatar :lol:

It's visible even without smiling...

[GrebluBro]

It's visible even without smiling...

Well I meant it would be much more clear when they smile..otherwise also we can see it but less visible (comparing to when smiling) particularly to people who look very Caucasoid.

[Faklon]

Giulio Serra, regional councillor of Calabria
http://www.consiglioregionale.calabria.it/upload/fotoconsiglieri/SERRA%20Giulio.jpg

This guy looks like Elias Koteas, a Greek-Canadian actor who trace his origin to Mani, Peloponnese
http://www.zapster.it/multimedia/3000/2971/big/Elias_Koteas---07.jpg


Koteas looks more long-faced Pontid imo.

41618

41619

I see the similarity along with some difference in the nose between the Calabrese and the Kashmiri,their overall haistyle/baldness contributes to the similarity as well.

[Sikeliot]

IMO the Calabrese man looks more Jewish than Greek.

[Tooting Carmen]

Imo, while Europeans and South Asians relatively seldom overlap in appearance, it is possible for people from the two respective groups with the most West Asian influence to crossover, namely Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots on the one hand and Pakistanis/NW Indians on the other. Even Sikeliot himself once said so.

[Sikeliot]

Imo, while Europeans and South Asians relatively seldom overlap in appearance, it is possible for people from the two respective groups with the most West Asian influence to crossover, namely Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots on the one hand and Pakistanis/NW Indians on the other. Even Sikeliot himself once said so.

I think that it is VERY rare, but I suppose it can happen. It's more that there are occasionally South Euros so dark they can be South Asian, rather than the reverse.

[Faklon]

Imo, while Europeans and South Asians relatively seldom overlap in appearance, it is possible for people from the two respective groups with the most West Asian influence to crossover, namely Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots on the one hand and Pakistanis/NW Indians on the other. Even Sikeliot himself once said so.

Haven't seen a Pakistani in real life that didn't stand out here.

Even the darkest natives(which may suggest Gypsy origin but doesn't have to) are quite recognisable to me compared to them.

[Tooting Carmen]

Haven't seen a Pakistani in real life that didn't stand out here.

Even the darkest natives(which may suggest Gypsy origin but doesn't have to) are quite recognisable to me compared to them.

I'm not saying that Pakistanis who'd pass in SE Europe are common, but there are some borderline cases for sure, especially among the upper castes.

[Faklon]

I'm not saying that Pakistanis who'd pass in SE Europe are common, but there are some borderline cases for sure, especially among the upper castes.

Post pictures with different angles and no modification.

[Faklon]

To better understand what I'm saying,there were some Pakistanis working in a farm around my place in midsummer and I could easily recognise them.There was a kiosk nearby with a very pigmented guy working in it,despite looking dark/atypical/tanned he still looked like one of these local cases which he was.

[Tooting Carmen]

Post pictures with different angles and no modification.

I'll find some more later, but let's start with these: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?102826-Outside-the-Indian-Subcontinent-itself-where-could-these-lighter-Pakistanis-pass-(Part-Two)&highlight=birmingham

[GrebluBro]

Imo, while Europeans and South Asians relatively seldom overlap in appearance, it is possible for people from the two respective groups with the most West Asian influence to crossover, namely Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots on the one hand and Pakistanis/NW Indians on the other. Even Sikeliot himself once said so.

Crossover is not impossible, but still rare..

I already told you may be 1% of Indians, 4% of Punjabis and 7% of Paki can pass as atypical Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots

But mostly the locals of Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots would consider atpyical south-Asians as one of them..may be anthropolgy forum members..

Other Europeans would think neither atypical south-Asians nor similar atypical Greeks/South Italians/Maltese/Cypriots look EUropean :)

[Faklon]

I'll find some more later, but let's start with these: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?102826-Outside-the-Indian-Subcontinent-itself-where-could-these-lighter-Pakistanis-pass-(Part-Two)&highlight=birmingham

Girl has a headscraf.

Had seen a local reporter looking something like him.

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1223494831000&ssbinary=true

Others are way off.

[Tooting Carmen]

Girl has a headscraf.

Had seen a local reporter looking something like him.

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1223494831000&ssbinary=true

Others are way off.

I didn't say they'd pass in Greece, but that some are borderline. And there are certainly some who can fit as West Asian.

[Faklon]

I didn't say they'd pass in Greece, but that some are borderline. And there are certainly some who can fit as West Asian.

By that logic,every Caucasoid is borderline.

[Tooting Carmen]

By that logic,every Caucasoid is borderline.

No, what I meant was that, while those Pakistanis and others like them might not exactly fully resemble Southern Europeans, nevertheless in pigmentation, if not features, they are not as far removed from the darkest Southern Europeans as we would like to think.

[Faklon]

No, what I meant was that, while those Pakistanis and others like them might not exactly fully resemble Southern Europeans, nevertheless in pigmentation, if not features, they are not as far removed from the darkest Southern Europeans as we would like to think.

That's not far off from what I said.

Anyway,if I see these people in the underground I would think either tourists or immigrants including the reporter guy.

[Tooting Carmen]

That's not far off from what I said.

Anyway,if I see these people I would think either tourists or immigrants including the reporter guy.

OK. As for Salman Rushdie, I think he could pass as an atypical SE European were it not for his blatantly South Asian nose.

[Faklon]

OK. As for Salman Rushdie, I think he could pass as an atypical SE European were it not for his blatantly South Asian nose.

I've noticed that some of these cherry-picked North Indians may look more familiar than Pakistanis,not that they look like natives.

[Tooting Carmen]

I've noticed that some of these cherry-picked North Indians may look more familiar than Pakistanis.

Interesting. Why would that be?

[Shah-Jehan]

^Kashmir should belong in Pakistan anyway...

[Smeagol]

I don't see why you're so obsessed with comparing Southern Europeans to south asians.

[Faklon]

Interesting. Why would that be?

Don't know,head shape maybe but it could be that I just ran on these types.

[Tooting Carmen]

^Kashmir should belong in Pakistan anyway...

This is not the time and the place to discuss that. But anyway, as I said in another post, the missing link between Southern Europe and the Indian Subcontinent is the Middle East, which is where the occasional overlaps in both directions largely come from.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't see why you're so obsessed with comparing Southern Europeans to south asians.

Just pointing out the sporadic overlaps between ethnic groups that are mostly very different.

[Shah-Jehan]

This is not the time and the place to discuss that. But anyway, as I said in another post, the missing link between Southern Europe and the Indian Subcontinent is the Middle East, which is where the occasional overlaps in both directions largely come from.

yeah, Central Asia would've been two if not for the Mongol massacres and eventual absorption of it's people by Turkic hordes...

[Rambo07]

He is an extreme for Kashmir too.. he looks Georgian to me.

He is actually Iranian but he could easily pass in Kashmir. I am half Kashmiri but even my phenotype is easily found in the Vale and Gulmarg/Pehlgam area.

[Tooting Carmen]

He is actually Iranian but he could easily pass in Kashmir. I am half Kashmiri but even my phenotype is easily found in the Vale and Gulmarg/Pehlgam area.

But it is still a minority, though more numerous than elsewhere in India.

[Tooting Carmen]

He is actually Iranian but he could easily pass in Kashmir. I am half Kashmiri but even my phenotype is easily found in the Vale and Gulmarg/Pehlgam area.

No, he is fully Kashmiri by ethnicity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_rushdie#Early_life_and_family_background

[Rambo07]

Weird because I swear I read he was of Iranian descent , in any case thanks for clearing that up Vita. Well that further supports my case.

[Rambo07]

But it is still a minority, though more numerous than elsewhere in India.

This look is found in aristocratic Kashmiri families a lot. Regular Kashmiris are more leptomorphic.

[Rambo07]

He is a brilliant author and Satanic Verses is actually a brilliant book.

[Tooting Carmen]

He is a brilliant author and Satanic Verses is actually a brilliant book.

Whether that is so or not, what I want to discuss is if he at all resembles the councillor from Calabria - do you think so or not?

[Sikeliot]

Whether that is so or not, what I want to discuss is if he at all resembles the councillor from Calabria - do you think so or not?

Not to me.

[Faklon]

Whether that is so or not, what I want to discuss is if he at all resembles the councillor from Calabria - do you think so or not?

They both have that aristocratic Kubrickoid look.

[GrebluBro]

Whether that is so or not, what I want to discuss is if he at all resembles the councillor from Calabria - do you think so or not?

Dude you shouldn't reveal ethnicity..

Post pictures from both atypical SA and atypical south-Euros...ask TA members to pick the right one :lol:

[Tooting Carmen]

Dude you shouldn't reveal ethnicity..

Post pictures from both atypical SA and atypical south-Euros...ask TA members to pick the right one :lol:

This is a debating thread, not a guessing thread.:picard1:

[GrebluBro]

This is a debating thread, not a guessing thread.:picard1:

Don't you know people' perception changes a bit after knowing the ethnicity??


she is half white half Bengali...Those who don't know her background will say she is white..after knowing they will bullshitting they can see SA infulece :lol:

[Shah-Jehan]

Don't you know people' perception changes a bit after knowing the ethnicity??


she is half white half Bengali...Those who don't know her background will say she is white..after knowing they will bullshitting they can see SA infulece :lol:


SA influence is obvious for a native SouthAsian and especially since I am Bengali myself, you can see it in the smile...

[Faklon]

Don't you know people' perception changes a bit after knowing the ethnicity??


she is half white half Bengali...Those who don't know her background will say she is white..after knowing they will bullshitting they can see SA infulece :lol:



What's her name?

[GrebluBro]

SA influence is obvious for a native SouthAsian and especially since I am Bengali myself, you can see it in the smile...

You are bullshitting as expected :lol:

let me post her in one thread...dont reveal her ID

[GrebluBro]

SA influence is obvious for a native SouthAsian and especially since I am Bengali myself, you can see it in the smile...

Remove her picture..

[Rambo07]

Whether that is so or not, what I want to discuss is if he at all resembles the councillor from Calabria - do you think so or not?

not really

[Shah-Jehan]

Remove her picture..

I did...

[Prisoner Of Ice]

That is a VERY atypical Indian
The Calabrese looks normal for Calabria.. Dinaro-Med, minor Armenoid influence.

I know some Indians that look just like him.

[Tooting Carmen]

Somewhere in between the two men in the OP, is the former BBC1 Controller Alan Yentob, who is of Iraqi Jewish descent:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/article6616089.ece/ALTERNATES/w460/yentobDM2309_228x340.jpg

[YeshAtid]

Rushdie is very atypical making it a moot comparison.

[Tooting Carmen]

Rushdie is very atypical making it a moot comparison.

For most of India yes, but his type is more common in Kashmir itself than elsewhere.

[YeshAtid]

For most of India yes, but his type is more common in Kashmir itself than elsewhere.
He's still quite rare.

[cally]

La vita - are you really Colombian ??

[Tooting Carmen]

La vita - are you really Colombian ??

Colombian mother, British father. Why?

[GrebluBro]

La vita - are you really Colombian ??

you suspect him for South Asian :rotfl:

[GrebluBro]

For most of India yes, but his type is more common in Kashmir itself than elsewhere.

Guys like Salman are from upper-class..I would say 5-10% could look close to him, but this guy is extreme


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KxJ4K3b1hZs/Uv9jLiczESI/AAAAAAAAELI/lY7kjDMawew/w742-h577-no/J%2526K-MEN.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SYR6eZ8zrOo/Uv9jMNDqvyI/AAAAAAAAELU/opkK5sCqqGI/w742-h577-no/J%2526K-WOMEN.JPG

[Rambo07]

That is a VERY atypical Indian
The Calabrese looks normal for Calabria.. Dinaro-Med, minor Armenoid influence.

NO he is not, You can easily find this type among Upper middle class Kashmiri Merchant class.
Its not atypical at all.

[YeshAtid]

La vita - are you really Colombian ??
He's obsessed with Southern Europeans.

[Rambo07]

Guys like Salman are from upper-class..I would say 5-10% could look close to him, but this guy is extreme


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KxJ4K3b1hZs/Uv9jLiczESI/AAAAAAAAELI/lY7kjDMawew/w742-h577-no/J%2526K-MEN.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SYR6eZ8zrOo/Uv9jMNDqvyI/AAAAAAAAELU/opkK5sCqqGI/w742-h577-no/J%2526K-WOMEN.JPG

Those are mostly Dogra people from Jammu in the men's team . The women are definitely not Kashmiri.

[GrebluBro]

Those are mostly Dogra people from Jammu in the men's team . The women are definitely not Kashmiri.

These people represented Jammu & kashmir state in national sports

[Rambo07]

He's still quite rare.

No its not. This type is seen among Shia Merchant class in Kashmir.

[GrebluBro]

No its not. This type is seen among Shia Merchant class in Kashmir.

Post group of common Kashmiri people who look like him

[Rambo07]

These people represented Jammu & kashmir state in national sports

Kashmiris are very patriotic about their identity, they really have no interest in participating in an Indian sports league. Those look to be people from Jammu and other Indians from various parts of the country.

[Shah-Jehan]

Kashmiris are very patriotic about their identity, they really have no interest in participating in an Indian sports league. Those look to be people from Jammu and other Indians from various parts of the country.

Some of the women in the team look like they are from Ladakh, ethnic Tibetans or "Ladakhis" as they're called.

[Rambo07]

Some of the women in the team look like they are from Ladakh, ethnic Tibetans or "Ladakhis" as they're called.

No those look Mizo or people from NE part of India. Another thing to keep in mind, the Jammu area has a lot of army bases so lots of families from different.
So their children go to school to represent the state.

[Arcadefire]

Seems about right... arnt Dogras like mixture of Pahari people and Punjabis?

[Rambo07]

Seems about right... arnt Dogras like mixture of Pahari people and Punjabis?

Yes based of what pics, members have posted on Anthroscape, YES.
North Indids/Indo brachid intermediates + Mountain Indids.
In the Brahmin and Rajputs there, I did not notice quite a few of them do have noticeable Iranid or Dinarid influence.

[Odin]

Kashmiri guy cannot pass in Southern Europe.