2013 autosomal DNA study on Brazil

[curupira]

Interestingly, the study also addresses previous studies... The more the studies the closer to the truth, especially in a complex scenario like here. I haven't fully read it yet, but it does seem to be in agreement with previous studies overall, even if percentages aren't exactly the same.


There are many different studies that contribute to the global picture of the ethnic heterogeneity in Brazilian populations. These studies use different types of genetic markers and are focused on the comparison of populations at different levels. In some of them, each geographical region is treated as a single homogeneous population, whereas other studies create different subdivisions: political (e.g., pooling populations by State), demographic (e.g., urban and rural), or ethnic (e.g., culture, self-declaration, or skin colour). In this study, we performed an enhancedreassessment of the genetic ancestry of ~ 1,300 Brazilians characterised for 46 autosomal Ancestry Informative Markers (AIMs).

In addition, 798 individuals from twelve Brazilian populations representing the five geographical macro-regions of Brazil were newly genotyped, including a Native American community and a rural Amazonian community. Following an increasing North to South gradient, European ancestry was the most prevalent in all urban populations (with values up to 74%). The populations in the North consisted of a significant proportion of Native American ancestry that was about two times higher than the African contribution. Conversely, in the Northeast, Center-West and Southeast, African ancestry was the second most prevalent. At an intrapopulation level, all urban populations were highly admixed, and most of the variation in ancestry proportions was observed between individuals within each population rather than among population. Nevertheless, individuals with a high proportion of Native American ancestry are only found in the samples from Terena and Santa Isabel. Our results allowed us to further refine the genetic landscape of Brazilians while establishing the basis for the effective application of an autosomal AIM panel in forensic casework and clinical association studies within the highly admixed Brazilian population
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjour nal.pone.0075145&representation=PDF

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/15nsqw3.jpg

[curupira]

The latest thorough autosomal study before that of 2013. The composition of Brazil according to it (with 'whites', 'pardos' and 'blacks' according to their respective proportions):


The Genomic Ancestry of Individuals from Different Geographical Regions of Brazil Is More Uniform Than Expected

Based on pre-DNA racial/color methodology, clinical and pharmacological trials have traditionally considered the different geographical regions of Brazil as being very heterogeneous. We wished to ascertain how such diversity of regional color categories correlated with ancestry. Using a panel of 40 validated ancestry-informative insertion-deletion DNA polymorphisms we estimated individually the European, African and Amerindian ancestry components of 934 self-categorized White, Brown or Black Brazilians from the four most populous regions of the Country. We unraveled great ancestral diversity between and within the different regions. Especially, color categories in the northern part of Brazil diverged significantly in their ancestry proportions from their counterparts in the southern part of the Country, indicating that diverse regional semantics were being used in the self-classification as White, Brown or Black. To circumvent these regional subjective differences in color perception, we estimated the general ancestry proportions of each of the four regions in a form independent of color considerations. For that, we multiplied the proportions of a given ancestry in a given color category by the official census information about the proportion of that color category in the specific region, to arrive at a “total ancestry” estimate. Once such a calculation was performed, there emerged a much higher level of uniformity than previously expected. In all regions studied, the European ancestry was predominant, with proportions ranging from 60.6% in the Northeast to 77.7% in the South. We propose that the immigration of six million Europeans to Brazil in the 19th and 20th centuries - a phenomenon described and intended as the “whitening of Brazil” - is in large part responsible for dissipating previous ancestry dissimilarities that reflected region-specific population histories. These findings, of both clinical and sociological importance for Brazil, should also be relevant to other countries with ancestrally admixed populations.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png

[GrebluBro]

I don't think 1300 samples for a whole country is enough..

If there are 500 towns in Brazil, each town must have at least 100..because Brazil people's genetics varies dramatically within each state let alone whole Brazil

Brazil whites or Pardos or Blacks are not homogeneous enough and they are not closely related within themselves.


For instance when they say 80% (assume) European for Whites in North-east, realistic value could be 75% or any value..
Since we are more into comparing regions (north east vs south ancestry), accuracy's necessity is more needed.


These are just my personal opinions. I could be wrong.

[Sikeliot]

Brazil received so many slaves.. half of all those sent to the New World.. what happened to all their DNA?

[Jackson]

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

[curupira]

~75% of them were males with short life expectancies. They were not settled uniformly throughout the country, but almost only in the coastal area and mining regions. They did not have 'normal demographics', at least until slavery was abolished in 1888.

Brazil is very misrepresented, and this makes the study of its demographic/genetic history only more significant then.


Brazil received so many slaves.. half of all those sent to the New World.. what happened to all their DNA?

[curupira]

That's why people need statistics, so that they don't need to sample everyone. :thumb001: If all were sampled, that would be perfect, but this is something which would require an immense effort, there are about 200 million Brazilians. That's where statistics comes in, with scientific metholodogy, rational ways, one can safely infer patterns with relatively not many samples. Anyway, on the study they mention their methods so as to maximize their results, they collected samples from the main urban areas, covering almost 70% of the Brazilian population, with people from all over the country.


I don't think 1300 samples for a whole country is enough..

If there are 500 towns in Brazil, each town must have at least 100..because Brazil people's genetics varies d.

[istripador]

That's why people need statistics, so that they don't need to sample everyone. :thumb001: If all were sampled, that would be perfect, but this is something which would require an immense effort, there are about 200 million Brazilians. That's where statistics comes in, with scientific metholodogy, rational ways, one can safely infer patterns with relatively not many samples. Anyway, on the study they mention their methods so as to maximize their results, they collected samples from the main urban areas, covering almost 70% of the Brazilian population, with people from all over the country.

low class people! I bet that samples from the Midwest and sao paulo are "Northeastern migrants"

[istripador]

Brazil received so many slaves.. half of all those sent to the New World.. what happened to all their DNA?

slaves always had to be replaced because it they died much! slavery in the united states was mild compared to slavery in Brazil

[Gaston]

SSA admixture is again quite low compared to what people think.

[istripador]

I don't think 1300 samples for a whole country is enough..

If there are 500 towns in Brazil, each town must have at least 100..because Brazil people's genetics varies dramatically within each state let alone whole Brazil

Brazil whites or Pardos or Blacks are not homogeneous enough and they are not closely related within themselves.


The Brazil has over 5,000 cities

For instance when they say 80% (assume) European for Whites in North-east, realistic value could be 75% or any value..
Since we are more into comparing regions (north east vs south ancestry), accuracy's necessity is more needed.


These are just my personal opinions. I could be wrong.

[Sikeliot]

Most Brazilians in my town look quadroonish to offwhite.

[istripador]

SSA admixture is again quite low compared to what people think.

the international media promoting Brazil as a clone of Africa in the New World, Brazil boils down to two places: the periphery of the city of rio de janeiro and periphery of Salvador

[istripador]

Most Brazilians in my town look quadroonish to offwhite.

off white that neither the "kaká"?

[curupira]

SSA admixture is again quite low compared to what people think.

Brazil is extremely misrepresented abroad.

I have posted many crowd pics here from all over Brazil... they're almost never shown on international media.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?103616-Brazil-a-visual-report-(crowd-pictures)

[Sargent Willdrillya]

sweet lord i dont know about genetics but whatever the lord put in brazilian women genes was da bomb ! he he he

[istripador]

sweet lord i dont know about genetics but whatever the lord put in brazilian women genes was da bomb ! he he he

the answer for this is "growth hormone"

[Sargent Willdrillya]

i agree with you there LOL

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Brazil is most heterogeneous racial country in whole world, and samples with only 1.5k person isn't good enough to get a clearer picture of Brazil from Autosomal DNA.....Brazil is something like only country in the world, in which family members differs quite racially between each others because of distant mixed ancestors.

[curupira]

That's why people need statistics, so that they don't need to sample everyone. :thumb001: If all were sampled, that would be perfect, but this is something which would require an immense effort, there are about 200 million Brazilians. That's where statistics comes in, with scientific metholodogy, rational ways, one can safely infer patterns with relatively not many samples. Anyway, on the study they mention their methods so as to maximize their results, they collected samples from the main urban areas, covering almost 70% of the Brazilian population, with people from all over the country.

Anyway, there have been several autosomal studies, so in spite of the complexity involved, one can get a glimpse on the reality here.


Brazil is most heterogeneous racial country in whole world, and samples with only 1.5k person isn't good enough to get a clearer picture of Brazil from Autosomal DNA.....Brazil is something like only country in the world, in which family members differs quite racially between each others because of distant mixed ancestors.

[Lurker]

I don't think 1300 samples for a whole country is enough..

If there are 500 towns in Brazil, each town must have at least 100..because Brazil people's genetics varies dramatically within each state let alone whole Brazil

Brazil whites or Pardos or Blacks are not homogeneous enough and they are not closely related within themselves.


For instance when they say 80% (assume) European for Whites in North-east, realistic value could be 75% or any value..
Since we are more into comparing regions (north east vs south ancestry), accuracy's necessity is more needed.


These are just my personal opinions. I could be wrong.

I think the sample number is OK. Studies in the United States using the whole population use something like 600 samples. This one used 664 Americans to see if self-identification in 4 categories (white, black, asian and hispanic) were consistent with their ancestry.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3051415/

The US population is less heterogeneous than Brazil's, but it's still very heterogeneous nowadays (considering the whole country and the amount of admixture in US Hispanics and African Americans). Interestingly, the study showed 19.4% of US whites in clusters other than white and 22.2% of Hispanic americans clustering in clusters other than Hispanic.

[RMuller]

Brazil is extremely misrepresented abroad.

I have posted many crowd pics here from all over Brazil... they're almost never shown on international media.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?103616-Brazil-a-visual-report-(crowd-pictures)


Before the internet i use to think the average Brazilian looked like the soccer team and the people of carnaval of Rio .

[curupira]

Yes, Brazil is very misrepresented. No one thinks of the US as being like their basketball team or their football team, and yet a continental sized country like Brazil is reduced to the demographics reality of a few major cities, like Salvador and Rio.


Before the internet i use to think the average Brazilian looked like the soccer team and the people of carnaval of Rio .

Anyway, the main difference from the 2011 study: the 2013 was based on random urban samples, the 2011 study was based on 'white', 'pardo' and 'black' samples according to their respective proportions. On this, the 2011 study may have had a better strategy. On the other hand, the 2013 studied focused on the urban population, which as they mentioned accounts for the vast majority of the Brazilian population.

[curupira]

bump

[Lucinho]

~75% of them were males with short life expectancies. They were not settled uniformly throughout the country, but almost only in the coastal area and mining regions. They did not have 'normal demographics', at least until slavery was abolished in 1888.

Brazil is very misrepresented, and this makes the study of its demographic/genetic history only more significant then.

Over 80% of Brazil's population in still concentrated in the coastal areas and mining regions...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/ARCHELLA_E_THERY_Img_05.png

[curupira]

Not really, look at the map more accurately. São Paulo, which has about 40 million, has a large population in its interior, and so does Southern Brazil.

A density map is different from a populational map. Northern and Central West Brazil have tens of millions of Brazilians (since they occupy very large areas a density map would make them look with lower population than they actually have). Large parts of Northeast Brazil, like Ceará, were not really really impacted by Africans, even if its population is more coastal.

This a map of Brazil with its states by population:

Pará, Maranhão and Ceará in Northern and Northeast Brazil are states with large populations (over 5 million). And so is Goiás, in Central West Brazil. Minas Gerais and Rio have large populations, but they are largely mixed states. Rio, in particular, has a very high largely euro population. On the other hand, São Paulo state has a population of 40 million, much larger than the population of Minas and Rio together, and São Paulo is remarkably less african than both (even if including Bahia). Then you have Rio Grande do Sul and Paraná, which also have large populations, where non african ancestry accounts for about 90% of the heritage of the population.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Brazilian_States_by_Population.svg


Over 80% of Brazil's population in still concentrated in the coastal areas and mining regions...

[Lucinho]

Not really, look at the map more accurately. São Paulo, which has about 40 million, has a large population in its interior, and so does Southern Brazil.

A density map is different from a populational map. Northern and Central West Brazil have tens of millions of Brazilians (since they occupy very large areas a density map would make them look with lower population than they actually have). Large parts of Northeast Brazil, like Ceará, were not really really impacted by Africans, even if its population is more coastal.

This a map of Brazil with its states by population:

Pará, Maranhão and Ceará in Northern and Northeast Brazil are states with large populations (over 5 million). And so is Goiás, in Central West Brazil. Minas Gerais and Rio have large populations, but they are largely mixed states. Rio, in particular, has a very high largely euro population. On the other hand, São Paulo state has a population of 40 million, much larger than the population of Minas and Rio together, and São Paulo is remarkably less african than both (even if including Bahia). Then you have Rio Grande do Sul and Paraná, which also have large populations, where non african ancestry accounts for about 90% of the heritage of the population.


lol I could do the same picking states with large Black populations.:picard2:

Bahia, Minas, Rio, Pernambuco, Alagoas, Sergipe, Espírito Santo, São Paulo (yes, it does have many Blacks) account for 80%¨of the Brazilian population. Moreover, there are Blacks and mixed people with visible African features in all other areas of Brazil. According to this genetic study that u are posting everywhere African ancestry is stronger than Amerindian even in the central-west, Mato Grosso do Sul

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjour nal.pone.0075145&representation=PDF

Even in Mato Grosso do Sul the average person has 25% of African ancestry, the same as having a full-blooded African grandparent. This is a lot and DOES influence a person's phenotype

[curupira]

In all of the states you mentioned except for Bahia (which I'm unsure of) european ancestry is more important, and there is native american ancestry too.


lol I could do the same picking states with large Black populations.:picard2:e

[Lucinho]

In all of the states you mentioned except for Bahia (which I'm unsure of) european ancestry is more important, and there is native american ancestry too.

lol nobody is denying that. But according to your beloved genetic study European ancestry is only 56% in the Northeast. When you mix Portuguese with Black and Amerindian you get a very dark type, based on the fact that the Portuguese are not blond and pale themselves :picard2:

[curupira]

I'm not eurocentric, my friend. I'm just for the truth, ok? Northeast Brazil is misrepresented generally, when if fact it tends to be European/African/Native American like the rest, just in different proportions, depending on the individual and on the region.


lol nobody is denying that. But according to your beloved genetic study European ancestry is only 56% in the Northeast. When you mix Portuguese with Black and Amerindian you get a very dark type, based on the fact that the Portuguese are not blond and pale themselves :picard2:

[Lucinho]

I'm not eurocentric, my friend. I'm just for the truth, ok? Northeast Brazil is misrepresent generally, when if fact it tends to be European/African/Native American like the rest, just in different proportions, depending on the individual and on the region.

no, lol. Only 25% of Northeastern Brazilians themselves claim to be White in Brazilian census. They dont want to be White, you are the only one worried about it.

[curupira]

Self reported ancestry and actual ancestry, particularly in Brazil, are two different things. The Northeast Brazilians "pardos" on average are pred. euro, just like the "whites" from there. Their ancestry is pred. european, though in a lower degree, generally, than those from Southeast and Southern Brazil, but these two are generally mixed too, "whites" from Southeast and Southern Brazil included. Hence the difference is not like you're making it to be, ok?


no, lol. Only 25% of Northeastern Brazilians themselves claim to be White in Brazilian census. They dont want to be White, you are the only one worried about it.

[Lucinho]

Self reported ancestry and actual ancestry, particularly in Brazil, are two different things. The Northeast Brazilians "pardos" on average are pred. euro, just like the "whites" from there. Their ancestry is pred. european, though in a lower degree, generally, than those from Southeast and Southern Brazil, but these two are generally mixed too, "whites" from Southeast and Southern Brazil included. Hence the difference is not like you're making it to be, ok?

lol what matters is what you look like. A police officer is not going to ask your genetic study before stopping you on the street as a "suspect" based on your phenotype.

And being predominantly European doesnt make a population look European. 56% of Portuguese admixture and 28% of African and 16% of Amerindian produces a very dark population, and we can see that walking on the streets of the Northeast :picard2:

[curupira]

A 2015 autosomal genetic study, which also analysed data of 25 studies of 38 different Brazilian populations concluded that: European ancestry accounts for 62% of the heritage of the population, followed by the African (21%) and the Native American (17%). The European contribution is highest in Southern Brazil (77%), the African highest in Northeast Brazil (27%) and the Native American is the highest in Northern Brazil (32%). http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.22714/abstract

[curupira]

By region, according to the 2015 study:

http://i60.tinypic.com/20st7j5.jpg

[alnortedelsur]

By region, according to the 2015 study:

http://i60.tinypic.com/20st7j5.jpg

I have always thought that the overall autosomal composition of Brazil is very similar to that of Venezuela, with the only difference that in most of Venezuela (with the only exception of some coastal lowlands) the Amerindian element is noticeable higher than the African element, and that the overall European contribution in Brazil is somewhat higher than in Venezuela (though NOT "abysmally" higher).

I would say that overall European contribution in Venezuela is more or less on the same level as in the Brazilian northeast (between 55-60%). Not that high as in the most European areas on Brazil (south, centre-west, and southeast), but not that low as the less European areas of Brazil (like the North).

But keep in mind that I am just comparing with Venezuela as a whole. There are obviously regional differences within Venezuela.

[curupira]

^ I agree entirely.

[Argentano]

By region, according to the 2015 study:

http://i60.tinypic.com/20st7j5.jpg

you should do a thread with all the studies in the first page...or a compilation of all of them....i will do something like that for Argentina

[Blake]

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1004572.g001

[Blake]

According all Genetic Studies:

Brazil is 60% (The least one) to 77% or border 80% (the most one) European
South is 74% (The least one) to 90 (the most one) european.

So 68% to Brazil and 82% for South, but the difference is that most Ethnic Europeans in Southern Brazil is in no-capital cities, like Europe, and the others regions I don't know, maybe only São Paulo states succeed the same thing (with much difference), different than Argentina. But again DNA test in Latin America is unrepresentative, big differences in all tests because we dont have racial segregation in any moment of history.
You do not understand that theorize about it is mental masturbation?

[Blake]

you should do a thread with all the studies in the first page...or a compilation of all of them....i will do something like that for Argentina

The First one:

A 2012 autosomal DNA study found out the following composition in Argentina: 65% European, 31% native American and 4% African.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0034695
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0034695.g001

[Argentano]

According all Genetic Studies:

Brazil is 60% (The least one) to 77% or border 80% (the most one) European
South is 74% (The least one) to 90 (the most one) european.

So 68% to Brazil and 82% for South, but the difference is that most Ethnic Europeans in Southern Brazil is in no-capital cities, like Europe, and the others regions I don't know, maybe only São Paulo states succeed the same thing (with much difference), different than Argentina. But again DNA test in Latin America is unrepresentative, big differences in all tests because we dont have racial segregation in any moment of history.
You do not understand that theorize about it is mental masturbation?

could you give me the link to the test that has the south in 90% euro?

i would like to read that test

[curupira]

It says 87% (~90%), but you'd have to pay to get the study. Anyway, given the other studies, the average would be somewhere 75% to 80% IMO.

Here is the link to that study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20976/abstract


could you give me the link to the test that has the south in 90% euro?

i would like to read that test

[Blake]

could you give me the link to the test that has the south in 90% euro?

i would like to read that test

I can search, but that exist, exist.

Argentina in all studies is about 65% or little less to 78% border the same as Brazil 60 to 77%. The difference between Euro composition in Argentina and in Brazil has no much difference, about 5% or less.

[curupira]

you should do a thread with all the studies in the first page...or a compilation of all of them....i will do something like that for Argentina

As new studies come in, I just update this thread. Just to not to open more than one thread with the same subject.

[Blake]

It says 87% (~90%), but you'd have to pay to get the study. Anyway, given the other studies, the average would be somewhere 75% to 80% IMO.

Here is the link to that study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20976/abstract

None have one with 90% not 87,7%.

The most not 75% to 80% is 80% to 85%. Two in 81-82% range.

But I expect more because the most full euros is from no-capital cities.

[Argentano]

As new studies come in, I just update this thread. Just to not to open more than one thread with the same subject.

its ok the problem is that many people read the first and last pages of the threads

[Argentano]

I can search, but that exist, exist.

Argentina in all studies is about 65% or little less to 78% border the same as Brazil 60 to 77%. The difference between Euro composition in Argentina and in Brazil has no much difference, about 5% or less.

this are all the national studies there are of Argentina...


http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/cmv_88/Estudios%20nacionales_zpsg0yxwis3.jpg~original

[Blake]

this are all the national studies there are...

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/cmv_88/Estudios%20nacionales_zpsg0yxwis3.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/cmv_88/media/Estudios%20nacionales_zpsg0yxwis3.jpg.html)

Same as São Paulo 65% (the least one) and 79% (the most one) with more tests I think.

Make an average and get something like 70%. :p

[Argentano]

Same as São Paulo 65% (the least one) and 79% (the most one) with more tests I think.

Make an average and get something like 70%. :p

i will make a thread with all the argentine genetic tests in this format...because posting 1 or 2 tests only is not fair..

[Argentano]

It says 87% (~90%), but you'd have to pay to get the study. Anyway, given the other studies, the average would be somewhere 75% to 80% IMO.

Here is the link to that study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20976/abstract

have you bought it? what are the results for the rest? within the ball park?

[Blake]

i will make a thread with all the argentine genetic tests in this format...because posting 1 or 2 tests only is not fair..

Isn't "no-biased" all genetic studies in Argentina? C'mon make a average and get something like 70%, even São Paulo with 79% I think have more samples. :)

[Argentano]

Isn't "no-biased" all genetic studies in Argentina? C'mon make a average and get something like 70%, even São Paulo with 79% I think have more samples. :)

didnt understand

[curupira]

have you bought it? what are the results for the rest? within the ball park?

I have. They are above the results of the others studies to other regions too. So it is skewed upwards. The studies on this thread are better IMO.

http://i62.tinypic.com/mmal8y.jpg

[Blake]

didnt understand

Allelic frequencies of eight autosomal short-tandem repeat (STR) loci (TH01, TPOx, CSF1PO, vWA, FES/FPS, F13A1, F13B, and CD4) were determined in 400 individuals born in the State of São Paulo. No significant deviations from Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium were found in any loci analyzed. The Unweighted Pair-Group Method with Arithmetic Mean (UPGMA) tree constructed based on genetic distances revealed that the present population was grouped with Europeans, and separated from African and Amerindian populations. Estimates of admixture components based on the gene identity method revealed 79% European, 14% African, and 7% Amerindian contributions to this Brazilian population sample. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 18:702–705, 2006. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20474/abstract

[Blake]

I have. They are above the results of the others studies to other regions too. So it is skewed upwards. The studies on this thread are better IMO.


Why better in your opinion?

[Argentano]

Allelic frequencies of eight autosomal short-tandem repeat (STR) loci (TH01, TPOx, CSF1PO, vWA, FES/FPS, F13A1, F13B, and CD4) were determined in 400 individuals born in the State of São Paulo. No significant deviations from Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium were found in any loci analyzed. The Unweighted Pair-Group Method with Arithmetic Mean (UPGMA) tree constructed based on genetic distances revealed that the present population was grouped with Europeans, and separated from African and Amerindian populations. Estimates of admixture components based on the gene identity method revealed 79% European, 14% African, and 7% Amerindian contributions to this Brazilian population sample. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 18:702–705, 2006. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20474/abstract

this result is similar to what Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Santa fe or La Pampa get in genetic tests..now...do you know what % of the argentine population lives in those 4 provinces?honestly...do you know?

[curupira]

Why better in your opinion?

The other studies fit more closely together than this one. By the way, I guess you should stick to Southern Brazil or Brazil instead of making comments on Argentina which may be perceived as hostile.

[Blake]

The other studies fit more closely together than this one.

I think 87% for South is much more better and much more close of reality than 74% the least one IMO. [B]Most results are about 82% and realized in Capital Cities - and the most ehtnic europeans are from small/Middle cities by far. I agree more with this map, again from other study with more samples:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1004572.g001

[Blake]

this result is similar to what Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Santa fe or La Pampa get in genetic tests..now...do you know what % of the argentine population lives in those 4 provinces?honestly...do you know?

São Paulo has 44 million people equal as Argentina, fit the same thing in no-biased Genetic Tests.

All Brazilian test is 60 to 77% (or 80%)
All Argentina test is 65 to 80% (with more samples in studies with 65%, 72%)
I think Argentina as whole is only 5% or less more european than Brazil as whole. IMO. Not big difference at all.

[Argentano]

São Paulo has 44 million people equal as Argentina, fit the same thing in no-biased Genetic Tests.

All Brazilian test is 60 to 77% (or 80%)
All Argentina test is 65 to 80% (with more samples in studies with 65%, 72%)
I think Argentina as whole is only 5% or less more european than Brazil as whole. IMO. Not big difference at all.

Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Santa fe or La Pampa, do you know what % of the argentine population lives in those 4 provinces?honestly...do you know?

[Blake]

Buenos Aires, Cordoba, Santa fe or La Pampa, do you know what % of the argentine population lives in those 4 provinces?honestly...do you know?

São Paulo have 44 million people now in 2014 more than Argentina who has 41.

[Argentano]

São Paulo have 44 million people now in 2014 more than Argentina who has 41.

yeah but i am talking about % of the population....you know it or you dont?

[Blake]

yeah but i am talking about % of the population....you know it or you dont?

Not all places are uniform, but São Paulo again has 44 million, Argentina has 41.

[Argentano]

Not all places are uniform, but São Paulo again has 44 million, Argentina has 41.

you are not answering the question because you dont like the answer

About 67% of the argentine population lives in the Pampean region, in the other hand just 35% of the brazilian population lives in the south and southeast of brazil...

Thats what i argue of the 65% euro argentine test....Pampean region is sub represented...just 49% of the samples are from pampean region when it should have been 67%...thats why the euro score is lower than in the other tests...


Individuals were sampled from four major regions in Argentina (n=558): 276 individuals from the Buenos Aires province (BA) [173 individuals from the Italiano Hospital, which is private, and from the Clı ´nicas Hospital, which is public, in the city of Buenos Aires; and 103 individuals from the Penna Hospital in Bahı ´a Blanca]; 117 individuals from the Southern region (South) (66 from the Regional Hospital in Comodoro Rivadavia and 51 from the Zonal Hospital in Esquel); 94 individuals from the Northwest (NWA) (Centro Privado de Hemoterapia of Salta); and 71 individuals from the Northeast of the country (NEA) (Corrientes, Formosa, Chaco and Misiones provinces) who were recruited in Buenos Aires (Figure 1).

[Blake]

you are not answering the question because you dont like the answer

About 67% of the argentine population lives in the Pampean region, in the other hand just 35% of the brazilian population lives in the south and southeast of brazil...

Thats what i argue of the 65% euro argentine test....Pampean region is sub represented...just 49% of the samples are from pampean region when it should have been 67%...thats why the euro score is lower..than in the other tests...

No problem.

[Willem]

They are more European than I expected.

[Blake]

They are more European than I expected.

If we were a rich country we would be more a "white country". IMO

[Argentano]

Allelic frequencies of eight autosomal short-tandem repeat (STR) loci (TH01, TPOx, CSF1PO, vWA, FES/FPS, F13A1, F13B, and CD4) were determined in 400 individuals born in the State of São Paulo. No significant deviations from Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium were found in any loci analyzed. The Unweighted Pair-Group Method with Arithmetic Mean (UPGMA) tree constructed based on genetic distances revealed that the present population was grouped with Europeans, and separated from African and Amerindian populations. Estimates of admixture components based on the gene identity method revealed 79% European, 14% African, and 7% Amerindian contributions to this Brazilian population sample. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 18:702–705, 2006. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20474/abstract

just to let you know, because i saw the test...

it talks about white brazilians in sao paulo and not about the total population of sao paulo

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16917899



SUBJECTS AND METHODSIn total, 400 unrelated individuals (230males and 170 females) born in the State of Sa˜oPaulo (southeastern Brazil) and who were iden-tified as ‘‘white’’ in their biomedical recordswere analyzed for eight STR loci (TH01, TPOx,CSF1PO, vWA, FES/FPS, F13A1, F13B, andCD4). This study sample comprised healthyindividuals involved in paternity investigations


if you look at the brazilian table of his recopilation study, that test appears as "sao paulo euro brazilians"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3983580/

[Blake]

just to let you know, because i saw the test...

it talks about white brazilians in sao paulo and not about the total population of sao paulo

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16917899




if you look at the brazilian table of his recopilation study, that test appears as "sao paulo euro brazilians"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3983580/

What's the difference between STR's and AIM's and the others?

[Argentano]

What's the difference between STR's and AIM's and the others?

STR is "short tandem repeats" and AIM is "ancestry informative markers"

i guess they are different ways of analysing the information...and depending on which one you choose the results may vary to some extent...for example...remember the argentine genetic tests that says all the country is 65% euro? this is what it says at the end..



We validated our ancestry estimates with two approaches. One, by comparing ancestry estimates obtained with our panel of 99 AIMs to those obtained with 118,192 SNPs in a subset of individuals. Overall, we observed that the individual ancestry estimates that we obtained using information from 99 AIMs were strongly correlated with those obtained with genome wide data for the major ancestral components (European and Indigenous American). However, this was not the case for African ancestry, which shows a correlation coefficient of about 0.12. This low level of correlation is likely the result of an overestimation of the African component, as estimated by the 99 AIMs panel.

Since genetic ancestry estimates have statistical variance, when the proportion of ancestry is close to zero the estimates of ancestry tend to be biased towards higher numbers (since the model does not allow for ,0 ancestry). Therefore, care should be taken in interpreting ancestry estimates when the overall proportion of that ancestral group is low (,5%).

[Blake]

STR is "short tandem repeats" and AIM is "ancestry informative markers"

i guess they are different ways of analysing the information...and depending on which one you choose the results may vary to some extent...for example...remember the argentine genetic tests that says all the country is 65% euro? this is what it says at the end..

Tinha um grande compilado de estudos genéticos na fonte que você me mostrou, você notou?

[Argentano]

Tinha um grande compilado de estudos genéticos na fonte que você me mostrou, você notou?

yes...it has a lot of results for all of latin america..the bad part is that some studies are missing plus some countries like argentine have "average results" like the one of jujuy without explaining they were actually testing amerindians...at least with the brazilian tables they separate between euro brazilian, afro brazilian, etc

but its interesting nevertheless!

i have made charts for argentina and brazil with a recopilation of all the genetic studies i have seen...more even than this study :)

i was actually adding the sao paulo study to my chart and thats when i noticed this paulistas were actually white paulistas.

[Blake]

yes...it has a lot of results for all of latin america..the bad part is that some studies are missing plus some countries like argentine have "average results" like the one of jujuy without explaining they were actually testing amerindians...at least with the brazilian tables they separate between euro brazilian, afro brazilian, etc

but its interesting nevertheless!

i have made charts for argentina and brazil with a recopilation of all the genetic studies i have seen...more even than this study :)

i was actually adding the sao paulo study to my chart and thats when i noticed this paulistas were actually white paulistas.

Tem uns no sudeste na faixa de 74% e 75% também, seriam sudestinos brancos também?

[Argentano]

Tem uns no sudeste na faixa de 74% e 75% também, seriam sudestinos brancos também?

Not nescesarily...this are some different studies with averages for the whole southeast region..without separating between white and black (or at least i think so)...

1-Sudeste 79,9%

2-Rio de Janeiro 73,7%

3-Minas Gerais 59,2%
Espirito Santo 74,1%
Rio de Janeiro 55,2%
Sao Paulo 62,9%

4-Bambui 78,5%

5-Sudeste 67,0%


1-Genetic composition of Brazilian population samples based on a set of twenty-eight ancestry informative SNPs
2-"The Genomic Ancestry of Individuals from Different Geographical Regions of Brazil Is More Uniform Than Expected
3-Revisiting the Genetic Ancestry of Brazilians Using Autosomal AIM-Indel
4-Origin and dynamics of admixture in Brazilians and its effect on the pattern of deleterious mutations
5-Meta-analysis of Brazilian genetic admixture and comparison with other Latin America countries

[Blake]

Esses estudos do Pena dão desgosto mesmo, o que esperar desta cara:

https://www.ufmg.br/online/arquivos/anexos/Sergio%20Pena-Felipe%20Zig%20tif.jpg

:lol00001:

Para você ter uma ideia ele simplesmente descartou os estudos de Santa Catarina, pois se incluísse ele teria que mudar o título dele. :laugh2:

[Argentano]

Esses estudos do Pena dão desgosto mesmo, o que esperar desta cara:

https://www.ufmg.br/online/arquivos/anexos/Sergio%20Pena-Felipe%20Zig%20tif.jpg

:lol00001:

you hate pena...but there is one study of pena that says pardos are 80% euro on average..that is the higher euro i have seen for pardos in a genetic test!...he doesent seem to be downplaying euro ancestry

this are all studies that separated between self identified white pardo and black...ALL the studies i could find...the 80% euro for pardos is a pena study

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u492/cmv_88/Brazil%20razas_zpssrhdw8ja.jpg~original

[Blake]

you hate pena...but there is one study of pena that says pardos are 80% euro on average..that is the higher euro i have seen for pardos in a genetic test!...he doesent seem to be downplaying euro ancestry

this are all studies that separated between white pardo and black...ALL the studies i could find...the 80% euro for pardos is a pena study


That is other point. 80% euro en Average for Pardo? :picard1: In the same style that he's analyzed the Neguinho of Beija Flor as 62% European. :picard1:
Pass the study of 2009 for me. "DNA probes.... Genetics test..."

[Argentano]

That is other point. 80% euro en Average for Pardo? :picard1: In the same style that he's analyzed the Neguinho of Beija Flor as 62% European. :picard1:
Pass the study of 2009 for me. "DNA probes.... Genetics test..."

they are all in the internet for free...i didnt pay for any of them....2 or 3 were posted here in the site but the one you are asking is not one of them


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-879X2009005000026&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en



We used our set of 40 insertion-deletion polymorphisms (22) and the Structure program to study 272
Brazilians self-defined as White (11,18). A, 142 individuals from the State of Minas Gerais in the Southeast; B, 45 individuals from the
North (States of Amazonas, Acre, Rondônia, and Pará); D, 36 individuals from the South (States of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina
and Paraná); E, 49 individuals from the Northeast (State of Pernambuco). We also studied 88 White (C) and 100 Black (F) men from
the city of São Paulo, Brazil, randomly drawn from a larger sample described in a previous publication (19).

[Sikeliot]

I will add, as many people often compare Puerto Rico to Brazil... I am convinced from 23andme results I see that while Brazil has more full whites and people close to purely African, there is more African admixture dispersed across Puerto Rico as a whole.

I say this because on 23andme, nearly all Puerto Ricans I share with have 20%+ SSA, while most Brazilians do not that I have on my list.

[Argentano]

I will add, as many people often compare Puerto Rico to Brazil... I am convinced from 23andme results I see that while Brazil has more full whites and people close to purely African, there is more African admixture dispersed across Puerto Rico as a whole.

I say this because on 23andme, nearly all Puerto Ricans I share with have 20%+ SSA, while most Brazilians do not that I have on my list.

i think the difference with puerto rico is that puerto rico is very homogeneous...look the autosome results and compare them with the mexican ones

http://i.imgur.com/6DIlSh2.jpg

[Blake]

they are all in the internet for free...i didnt pay for any of them....2 or 3 were posted here in the site but the one you are asking is not one of them


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-879X2009005000026&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

In one study Pena marked Pardos as 80% european, in other Whites as 70% in BH. Okay Okay.

Like Neguinho da Beija Flor marked for Pena as 67% european, he pass as White in BH, typical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Brazilian

Ctrl C + Ctrl F Neguinho da Beija Flor. :rotfl:

[curupira]

In one study Pena marked Pardos as 80% european, in other Whites as 70% in BH. Okay Okay.[/URL]

I took the Pena test back in 2005. My results were just like the most updated version of 23andme now. I know examples of other peoples who took both tests, and the results also agreed. Keep in mind he was one of the first in the world to make this product available to others. At that time, there was an american company (Ancestry by DNA) which gave far more wrong results on average (e.g, among others: e.g, among others: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatfeedback/4201967/So-you-think-youre-English.html ). At that time, only 40 to 50 or 100 to 200 markers were used. Nowadays, these companies are using from 500000 to 700000 markers. So one or another skewed result should not be enough to discard his conclusions, when they agree with several other genetic studies.

This is his methodology:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00287.x/epdf

Anyway, there are many other genetic studies which were not undertaken by him.

[Blake]

Uma coisa é o teste pessoal, outra coisa é ter agendas. Ele analisou Neguinho da Beija Flor como 67% europeu.

Você concorda:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?182261-How-much-European-is-this-guy

[curupira]

I guess Neguinho results are wrong. But at that time technology was far from perfect. My point is: most of the time it worked. Read the paper in which he presented his methodology, it worked most of the time, a few wrong results would not change that.

His methodology:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00287.x/epdf


Uma coisa é o teste pessoal, outra coisa é ter agendas. Ele analisou Neguinho da Beija Flor como 67% europeu.

Você concorda:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?182261-How-much-European-is-this-guy