Ancient Europeans 20-40% Mongoloid ?

[ButlerKing]

Ancient Admixture in Human History

http://www.genetics.org/content/early/2012/09/06/genetics.112.145037


Earlier this year, Patterson et al. found that Europeans were a mixed population with significant prehistoric ancestry from North Asia. The theory put forward was that we were a two-way mix between Neolithic farmers who resembled genetically modern Sardinians, possibly from the Near East, and native European Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, whose best modern proxy seemed to be South American Indians. However, a pre-print at arXiv, courtesy of some of the same authors who wrote the Patterson et al. paper, proposes that Europeans might be a mix of three ancient groups: Neolithic farmers, Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and/or Mesolithic North or Central Asians. In fact, this model is very similar to the one I entertained in my blog entry about the Patterson et al. paper, in which I said that Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers carried a North Eurasian component, rather than being entirely of North Eurasian stock (see here). This makes sense in the light of ancient mtDNA results, which show Mesolithic Europeans carrying mostly West Eurasian-specific U4 and U5, but with some samples from Mesolithic and Neolithic Europe featuring a minority of Siberian-speific markers such as C.

Using MixMapper, we added each of the European populations to the unadmixed tree via admixtures (Figure 4; Table 1). For all eight groups in the HGDP data set, the best fit was as a mixture of a population related to the common ancestor of Karitiana and Suru´ı (in varying proportions of about 20-40%, with Sardinian and Basque among the lowest and Russian the highest) with a population related to the common ancestor of all unadmixed non-African populations on the tree. All eight European populations were fit independently, but notably, their ancestors were found to branch from the scaffold tree at very similar points, suggesting a similar broad-scale history.

...

Our interpretation is that most if not all modern Europeans are descended from at least one large-scale ancient admixture event involving, in some combination, at least one population of Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers; Neolithic farmers, originally from the Near East; and/or other migrants from northern or Central Asia. Either the first or second of these could be related to the “ancient western Eurasian” branch in Figure 4, and either the first or third could be related to the “ancient northern Eurasian” branch. Present-day Europeans differ in the amount of drift they have experienced since the admixture and in the proportions of the ancestry components they have inherited, but their overall profiles are similar.

[ButlerKing]

Is this true or is it just some wacko european making this claim

[arcticwolf]

At least!

Finally a good post from you! :thumb001:

[ButlerKing]

At least!

Finally a good post from you! :thumb001:

Don't get any wrong ideas. I actually find this claim extremely stupid and idiotic.
But I always did wanted to prove something. Nordics are not purer caucasoid

This study is referring to nordic people, the blonde/blue eye people.

The theory of blonde/blue eyes master race is a myth aswell as being pure european is also a myth.

Finns are racially 6 - 15% Siberian Mongoloid
http://www.chillnite.com/wp-content/gallery/pekka-eric_auvinen___jokela_high_school_massacre/Natural%20Selector%208.png


Where as Armenian are 100% pure Caucasoid. Brown hair and blue eyes are not uncommon.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bsw_am/19817157/237327/237327_original.jpg

[Insuperable]

Excellent, the tenth thread about this old news. I don't know from where did you pull 20-40%, but hey its Butlerking after all.

Since we know as of lately that ancient Amerindians were partially similar to modern Europeans some suggest that more caution is needed in interpreting the results.

BTW you write a lot of horse shit. You are unable to understand some things.

[ButlerKing]

Excellent, the tenth thread about this old news. I don't know from where did you pull 20-40%, but hey its Butlerking after all.

Since we know as of lately that ancient Amerindians were partially similar to modern Europeans some suggest that more caution is needed in interpreting the results.

BTW you write a lot of horse shit. You are unable to understand some things.

I don't believe neither of the two study.

I don't believe neither Native Americans were any part of European or the ancient Europeans were part Mongoloid.

[GrebluBro]

Finns...

Finnish got on average 5-7% Mongoloid..>10% is bullshit..
Even majority of Indians (India) got 5% Mongoloid..
Such little mongoloid blood didn't show up in Indian faces.
Most of the assumed Finnish phenotype are indigenous East-European type. Blonde, White (European-type), light eyes are totally alien to Mongoloids.

If you take that pseudo-mongolod as Mongoloid influence, max 10% of Finnish got such phenotype..

Many Irish (with ~0% Mongoloid) got pseudo-mongolid influenced eyes too.

Finland women team (how many got visible Mongolid influence?? barely 1 or 2)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Finland_national_women%27s_ice_hockey_team.jpg

[Gaston]

Armenians are West Asians and share with Europeans significant East Eurasian ancestry.

Zoom of a global PCA.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KjzT_MOd0ns/TcqkaXNUTMI/AAAAAAAADsk/HzlACkbGNTA/s1600/waeu_yri_chb_blowup.png

As you can see, everybody is located above Sardinians in the West (below) - East (up) Eurasian axis which dominates the Out-of-Africa (Eurasian) variation. You can also see the African admixture in several populations including Sardinians (very minor).


The claim of 20% to 40% East Eurasian (Native American-like) applied to modern Europeans, not Ancient. These high figures were indeed misleading because it gave Karitiana-like admixture to Mozabites too (slightly below 20%).
With the latest paper on the minor West Eurasian ancestry of Native Americans, it discards the 20-40% East Eurasian admixture in modern Europeans but support the mixed nature of the paleolithic steppes ancestors of Europeans. Modern Europeans are more likely between 5 and 15% ancient North Asian (East Eurasian), not counting additional Siberian influences in some Europeans (Russians, Finns, Saamis, etc).

[ButlerKing]

Finnish got on average 5-7% Mongoloid..>10% is bullshit..
Even majority of Indians (India) got 5% Mongoloid..
Such little mongoloid blood didn't show up in Indian faces.
Most of the assumed Finnish phenotype are indigenous East-European type. Blonde, White (European-type), light eyes are totally alien to Mongoloids.

If you take that pseudo-mongolod as Mongoloid influence, max 10% of Finnish got such phenotype..



Finland women team (how many got visible Mongolid influence?? barely 1 or 2)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Finland_national_women%27s_ice_hockey_team.jpg


Finns on average 9.3% Siberian/Mongoloid DNA there was also Finns with 12 -15% Siberian/Mongoloid admixture although it was only a few samples.


http://s22.postimg.org/5f5lqifo1/admix.png


The average North European is 2% Northeast Asian
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4Uon3z-4xaI/UM_zkNvtR-I/AAAAAAAADCY/4nSn-vYZLFo/s400/WhoAmIpercents.tiff

The average Finns is 7% Northeast Asian
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qOVZjcVfQHU/UM_08vMw5wI/AAAAAAAADC4/ECbFEisKKY8/s400/Finnishref.tiff

[GrebluBro]

^No race is pure :)
What matters is phenotype..
Using that 10% pseudo-mongolid-influenced phenotype as basis, to claim whole Finnish population got mongolid-influeced face is bullshit

[GrebluBro]

Is this true or is it just some wacko european making this claim

Some Northern Africans and SOuth-African tribes got pseudo-mongoloid faces..they got nothing to do with East Asians.

Some Northern-Chinese look very non-Mongoloid too

[ButlerKing]

^No race is pure :)
What matters is phenotype..
Using that 10% pseudo-mongolid-influenced phenotype as basis, to claim whole Finnish population got mongolid-influeced face is bullshit

Come on! where is the harm in saying nordics are not pure caucasians?

You can only say it's pseudo-mongoloid WHEN there is no evidence.
But not only do y-dna autosomal DNA shows they are impure european but are the least caucasian group of europe.
Also there is Y-DNA N as evidence


Sami are the ancestors of Finns and Sami have from 8- 16% Mongoloid admixture while ancestors of Sami were Uralic who are 19 - 36% Mongoloid.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Haplogrupo_N_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG

[Yuffayur]

Don't get any wrong ideas. I actually find this claim extremely stupid and idiotic.
But I always did wanted to prove something. Nordics are not purer caucasoid

This study is referring to nordic people, the blonde/blue eye people.

The theory of blonde/blue eyes master race is a myth aswell as being pure european is also a myth.

Finns are racially 6 - 15% Siberian Mongoloid
http://www.chillnite.com/wp-content/gallery/pekka-eric_auvinen___jokela_high_school_massacre/Natural%20Selector%208.png


Where as Armenian are 100% pure Caucasoid. Brown hair and blue eyes are not uncommon.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bsw_am/19817157/237327/237327_original.jpg

Actually Armenians too have a significative mongoloid admixture.

[ButlerKing]

Some Northern Africans and SOuth-African tribes got pseudo-mongoloid faces..they got nothing to do with East Asians.

Some Northern-Chinese look very non-Mongoloid too

That is because there is ethnic hui

[Gaston]

Based on the PCA plot I posted, British people are between Scandinavians (more) and French people (less) in "mongoloid" ancestry, but closer to French. Iberians are slightly less "mongoloid" than Northern Italians because they have minor African ancestry.

[ButlerKing]

Actually Armenians too have a significative mongoloid admixture.

Armenians have generally 0 to 1.5% that is nothing compared with Finns 6 - 15% and Turkish 5 - 18.5%, Azeris 5 - 29%.

[Yuffayur]

Some Northern Africans and SOuth-African tribes got pseudo-mongoloid faces..they got nothing to do with East Asians.

Some Northern-Chinese look very non-Mongoloid too

Please don't say bullshit maybe the epicenthic fold can be found in North Africa but "pseudo-mongoloid face" aren't present among us, maybe among your people "southern asian" mongoloid faces can be found.

[Gaston]

Armenians have generally 0 to 1.5% that is nothing compared with Finns 6 - 15% and Turkish 5 - 18.5%, Azeris 5 - 29%.

Are you blind? Armenians are almost on par with Scandinavians in East Eurasian ancestry, just look at the fucking PCA plot. They are more "mongoloid" than British people are.

[ButlerKing]

Are you blind? Armenians are almost on par with Scandinavians in East Eurasian ancestry, just look at the fucking PCA plot. They are more "mongoloid" than British people are.


Lol worthless claim

http://i41.tinypic.com/e049pu.png

[Gaston]

Lol worthless claim

http://i41.tinypic.com/e049pu.png

Sure, posting obsolete runs. The North European and West Asian components are highly mixed:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xal68HraeTs/UJBfD1d2CoI/AAAAAAAAAzU/yvTVW2WNvLQ/s1600/1_2.png

You just don't like to face the truth, which is British people are mongoloid-admixed too.

[ButlerKing]

Sure, posting obsolete runs. The North European and West Asian components are highly mixed:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xal68HraeTs/UJBfD1d2CoI/AAAAAAAAAzU/yvTVW2WNvLQ/s1600/1_2.png

You just don't like to face the truth, which is British people are mongoloid-admixed too.

You're comparing a few drop of insignificant Mongoloid blood in British or Armenian which is usually noise.

[Argang]

Armenian/British positions on the PCA are probably best explained by the Dodecad w4 results.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJR UE#gid=1

Armenians have no "Amerindian" (peaks in Karitiana) ancestry found in North Europeans including British, but they have over 5% of "Asian" component which peaks in Chinese. That's more East Asian (as opposed to Amerindian) than any northern europeans including Finns and North Russians have on that run, and likely enough to explain the Armenian shift.

[Gaston]

^^ It's not noise. You're really not good at reading a PCA plots. The numbers are between 6 and 12% East Eurasian, which can't be considered noise.

[ButlerKing]

Armenian/British positions on the PCA are probably best explained by the Dodecad w4 results.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJR UE#gid=1

Armenians have no "Amerindian" (peaks in Karitiana) ancestry found in North Europeans including British, but they have over 5% of "Asian" component which peaks in Chinese. That's more East Asian (as opposed to Amerindian) than any northern europeans including Finns and North Russians have on that run, and likely enough to explain the Armenian shift.

You're a fool. The component here for 5% Asian for British is South Asian who are a mixture of West Asian and South Indian

[Argang]

The component here for 5% Asian for British is South Asian who are a mixture of West Asian and South Indian

Nonsense, Asian in that run is purely East Asian component that reaches 99% level in Han. And it's not the British who have it but Armenians.

[ButlerKing]

Nonsense, Asian in that run is purely East Asian component that reaches 99% level in Han. And it's not the British who have it but Armenians.

Yeah man it also runs 20% in the Kalash

http://viola.bz/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/0_a94e5_b96a92d5_XL.jpg

[ButlerKing]

It also runs

Pathan 23%

Sindhi 25%

Brahmin 50%

This is why you fools will never understand.

[Argang]

With 20% admixture, there's a chance phenotype won't be affected by it. There's a Nordid Chuvash guy in SNPA gallery. Not that all Chuvashes look like that, or that all Kalash look like your picture.

In global PCA's Kalash are noticeably closer to Chinese than Europeans are.

Edit. As are Pathans, Sindhi and Brahmins. ;)

[Gaston]

Yeah man it also runs 20% in the Kalash

http://viola.bz/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/0_a94e5_b96a92d5_XL.jpg

And what? Everybody is mixed today. I can also post a blonde Berber and that same blonde berber would turn out 20% African. Kalash people are South Asians and their ASI ancestry is clearly East Eurasian-derived, as the dominating mtdna haplogroups in South Asia show (branches of mtdna M, not N).

So please, if you start a thread you have to be open to other ideas and to the results the data gives us.

[ButlerKing]

With 20% admixture, there's a chance phenotype won't be affected by it. There's a Nordid Chuvash guy in SNPA gallery. Not that all Chuvashes look like that, or that all Kalash look like your picture.

In global PCA's Kalash are noticeably closer to Chinese than Europeans are.

Edit. As are Pathans, Sindhi and Brahmins. ;)

Clearly you don't understand, you are embarrassing yourself.

You keep thinking "Asian" means strictly to Mongoloid of course in the Koreans, Chinese, Manchus, Tibetan, Japanese, Mongolian the " Asian component means Mongoloid.

But in the Kshtriya it runs 63.5% and they are a high caste ethnic group in north India

In the Brahmin is 62.5%........ heck even the upper class south Indian

Are you telling me now that the highest caste Indian are more than Half Mongoloid?

http://i39.tinypic.com/nn06qd.jpg

[ButlerKing]

And what? Everybody is mixed today. I can also post a blonde Berber and that same blonde berber would turn out 20% African. Kalash people are South Asians and their ASI ancestry is clearly East Eurasian-derived, as the dominating mtdna haplogroups in South Asia show (branches of mtdna M, not N).

So please, if you start a thread you have to be open to other ideas and to the results the data gives us.

LOL........... so you still don't understand.

There is two types of Asian component in the study.

British never had contact with Mongoloid but British soldiers did marry lots of Indian and some of those children migrated to U.K and intermarried. There also also Indian migrant who married british females.

[Accountant]

Butlerking, my beloved brown inbred Armenian friend whose ancestors were raped by a (semi-)mongoloid horde or two, we all know you suffer from a serious case of mongolphobia (I can't believe I'm using this word...) and thus you are drawn into dubious internet bunkum like Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project. I'm quite sure there are better tasting dicks out there waiting to be sucked than that which belongs to the messiah of all anthronerds found online, your idol Dionekes Pontikos. So, I'm offering you some totally free and good advice as a gift: leave B̶r̶i̶t̶n̶e̶y̶ internet alone! Your life can still have a meaning.

[ButlerKing]

Butlerking, my beloved brown inbred Armenian friend whose ancestors were raped by a (semi-)mongoloid horde or two, we all know you suffer from a serious case of mongolphobia (I can't believe I'm using this word...) and thus you are drawn into dubious internet bunkum like Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project. I'm quite sure there are better tasting dicks out there waiting to be sucked than that which belongs to the messiah of all anthronerds found online, your idol Dionekes Pontikos. So, I'm offering you some totally free and good advice as a gift: leave B̶r̶i̶t̶n̶e̶y̶ internet alone! Your life can still have a meaning.

I'm not Armenian at all.

A lot of members here still don't understand what they mean by being pure caucasian. Armenians are purer than Finns in terms of caucasian ancestry but Finns have very high european ancestry but this does not make Finns more caucasoid than Armenian just because they frequently have blonde hair and blue eyes.

[Argang]

But in the Kshtriya it runs 63.5% and they are a high caste ethnic group in north India

In the Brahmin is 62.5%........ heck even the upper class south Indian
http://i39.tinypic.com/nn06qd.jpg

You're confusing European and Asian. The Kshatriya are in fact 33,1% Asian and 63,5% European in that run. The Asian is nevertheless obviously East Asian.

[Gaston]

LOL........... so you still don't understand.

There is two types of Asian component in the study.

British never had contact with Mongoloid but British soldiers did marry lots of Indian and some of those children migrated to U.K and intermarried. There also also Indian migrant who married british females.

Using lol in a serious thread makes you loose the tiny credibility you had. You don't understand anything in this topic or you don't want to understand.

Also, stop using mongoloid because it makes you confused. East Eurasian does not equal mongoloid, that's why I always put mongoloid beween " ".

[robar]

Mongol pride worldwide!

[ButlerKing]

You're confusing European and Asian. The Kshatriya are in fact 33,1% Asian and 63,5% European in that run. The Asian is nevertheless obviously East Asian.

You must be kidding me? so you're telling me that they are 1/3 Mongoloid.

What you don't understand is that the "European" in this study includes west Asian component

[ButlerKing]

Using lol in a serious thread makes you loose the tiny credibility you had. You don't understand anything in this topic or you don't want to understand.

Also, stop using mongoloid because it makes you confused. East Eurasian does not equal mongoloid, that's why I always put mongoloid beween " ".

This doesn't make any sense. How can East Eurasian doesn't mean Mongoloid?

[Argang]

so you're telling me that they are 1/3 Mongoloid.

1/3 East Asian, no buts about it. :)

And of course the European includes West Asian. That's why Chinese show as purely Asian, and Armenians as over 90% "European". It also means that the 5% Asian showing up in Armenians is East Asian.

[Gaston]

East Eurasians separated from West Eurasians at least 40,000 years ago (Tianyuan). In 40,000 years, if not more, superficial facial features can change very quickly. That's why you have Negritos in East Asia which are pure East Eurasians despite not being mongoloids.

[Insuperable]

Armenians are West Asians and share with Europeans significant East Eurasian ancestry.

Zoom of a global PCA.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KjzT_MOd0ns/TcqkaXNUTMI/AAAAAAAADsk/HzlACkbGNTA/s1600/waeu_yri_chb_blowup.png

As you can see, everybody is located above Sardinians in the West (below) - East (up) Eurasian axis which dominates the Out-of-Africa (Eurasian) variation. You can also see the African admixture in several populations including Sardinians (very minor).


The claim of 20% to 40% East Eurasian (Native American-like) applied to modern Europeans, not Ancient. These high figures were indeed misleading because it gave Karitiana-like admixture to Mozabites too (slightly below 20%).
With the latest paper on the minor West Eurasian ancestry of Native Americans, it discards the 20-40% East Eurasian admixture in modern Europeans but support the mixed nature of the paleolithic steppes ancestors of Europeans. Modern Europeans are more likely between 5 and 15% ancient North Asian (East Eurasian), not counting additional Siberian influences in some Europeans (Russians, Finns, Saamis, etc).

How can 20-40% of Mongoloid admixture among Europeans be disregarded when there was never such statement?

[ButlerKing]

1/3 East Asian, no buts about it. :)

And of course the European includes West Asian. That's why Chinese show as purely Asian, and Armenians as over 90% "European". It also means that the 5% Asian showing up in Armenians is East Asian.


So basically northern Indians today are mixture of European and East Asians?

[ButlerKing]

How can 20-40% of Mongoloid admixture among Europeans be disregarded when there was never such statement?

Yes there was.

[Insuperable]

Yes there was.

Find me in Patterson et al paper such statament or show some source! I threw my eye on it over a year ago when you probably never knew about it. If I am wrong I apologize.

[Anthropologique]

I have no problems with mongoloid admixture in Scandis or anyone else.

Hey, I'm 0.7% Finnish, so how much mongoloid do I have?

[ButlerKing]

East Eurasians separated from West Eurasians at least 40,000 years ago (Tianyuan). In 40,000 years, if not more, superficial facial features can change very quickly. That's why you have Negritos in East Asia which are pure East Eurasians despite not being mongoloids.

So is the South Indian component in North India are suppose to be related with the East Eurasian?

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3720/behar2010k10.png

[Argang]

So basically northern Indians today are mixture of European and East Asians?

That might (in part at least) be a case of chicken coming before egg.

[ButlerKing]

Find me in Patterson et al paper such statament or show some source! I throw my eye on it over a year ago when you probably never knew about it. If I am wrong I apologize.

It's from Eurogene blog


http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/europeans-are-three-way-mix-with.html

[Gaston]

So is the South Indian component in North India are suppose to be related with the East Eurasian?


Yes, partially.

[Argang]

So is the South Indian component in North India are suppose to be related with the East Eurasian?



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kXZ8Mxu5dns/TybJ7CQJuPI/AAAAAAAAEbk/QYJc4rvQ3ww/s1600/fst.png

Fst-distances are a good indicator. South Asian component tends to be much more closely related to East Asian component than North Euro or Med components are in any given admixture run that includes them.

[Proto-Shaman]

Where as Armenian are 100% pure Caucasoid. Brown hair and blue eyes are not uncommon.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bsw_am/19817157/237327/237327_original.jpg
They look like R1b-Bashkirs.

[ButlerKing]

Yes, partially.

This is starting to sound so silly.

But in any case Armenians DO NOT HAVE mongoloid admixture like the Finns do. There is south Asian admixture from north Indians possibly from the gypsies or Persians who themselves have 10%.

British don't have mongoloid admixture either is is the south Asian component.

[ButlerKing]

They look like R1b-Bashkirs.

No they don't.

Bashkirs also have 3-16% C3, 5 - 65% N, 3 - 6% O3 and 39% Mongoloid mtDNA.
R1b in Bashkir only reaches very high in some region but in others is less than 18%

http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p10705.jpg
http://www.bashinform.ru/upload/iblock/973/Timur.%20Murtzain.Rasy.Kadorov,IlnurHairullin.jpg

[Argang]

This is starting to sound so silly.

But in any case Armenians DO NOT HAVE mongoloid admixture like the Finns do. There is south Asian admixture from north Indians possibly from the gypsies or Persians who themselves have 10%.

British don't have mongoloid admixture either is is the south Asian component.

It bears repeating that Armenians are revealed by Dodecad world4 to have 5% of the "Chinese" Asian component ;). British have Amerindian, not Asian like Armenians. In both cases that explains why they are East Eurasian shifted compared to Sardinians or Basques.

[ButlerKing]

It bears repeating that Armenians are revealed by Dodecad world4 to have 5% of the "Chinese" Asian component ;). British have Amerindian, not Asian like Armenians. In both cases that explains why they are East Eurasian shifted compared to Sardinians or Basques.

I've looked at hundreds of Armenian study and have never once saw any Chinese or East Asian component in Armenian.

There was a few out of 20 samples that shows 0.5 to 2% but the majority were 0%

[Insuperable]

It's from Eurogene blog


http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/europeans-are-three-way-mix-with.html

It seems it is not just from Eurogenes blog, but from a peer reviewed paper written by Reich and company of which I wasn't aware. They wrote one before this one titled "An ancient admixture in human history" which actually put all this into a reality and where they developed new statistics for interpreting results. Based on their data Dienekes made Globe4 calc which could calculate this ancient North Eurasian Amerindian like ancestry. It peaked in Northeastern Europe with 10-12%. Dienekes admitted that the Globe4 is not entirely correct and that it gives somewhat lower values, but now they came up with values up to 40%. wtf.

[Gaston]

This is starting to sound so silly.

But in any case Armenians DO NOT HAVE mongoloid admixture like the Finns do. There is south Asian admixture from north Indians possibly from the gypsies or Persians who themselves have 10%.

British don't have mongoloid admixture either is is the south Asian component.

You are silly since the beginning. Just because you write in capital letters "Armenians DO NOT HAVE mongoloid admixture" doesn't make your statement magically valid. You're just writing what you want and sharing your views which aren't supported by any science, ignoring the data or distorting it for your own agenda.

British people don't have the South Asian component but the North European and West Asian components, which at lower Ks of admixture (especially in the globe4, Dodecad), show up partially as Native American (over 6% in globe4, probably underestimated since Sardinians are the reference for pure West Eurasian). The Native American score explain the East Eurasian shift of Brits vis-à-vis Sardinians in global PCA plots.

Armenians are clearly East Eurasian-shifted, otherwise they would be to the West of Sardinians in global PCA plots, which nobody is in Eurasia, except the African-admixed MENA people like Bedouins (some of them) and Berbers.

[Argang]

I've looked at hundreds of Armenian study and have never once saw any Chinese or East Asian component in Armenian.

There was a few out of 20 samples that shows 0.5 to 2% but the majority were 0%

Then you need to do nothing more than look at the world4. :)

In other tests additional components tend to cover this rich East Asian heritage. Should such calamity happen, only by looking at the relatedness of said components can we deduce it is still there. :cool:

[ButlerKing]

You are silly since the beginning. Just because you write in capital letters "Armenians DO NOT HAVE mongoloid admixture" doesn't make your statement magically valid. You're just writing what you want and sharing your views which aren't supported by any science, ignoring the data or distorting it for your own agenda.

British people don't have the South Asian component but the North European and West Asian components, which at lower Ks of admixture (especially in the globe4, Dodecad), show up partially as Native American (over 6% in globe4, probably underestimated since Sardinians are the reference for pure West Eurasian). The Native American score explain the East Eurasian shift of Brits vis-à-vis Sardinians in global PCA plots.

Armenians are clearly East Eurasian-shifted, otherwise they would be to the West of Sardinians in global PCA plots, which nobody is in Eurasia, except the African-admixed MENA people like Bedouins (some of them) and Berbers.

I don't know how the hell you're interpreting this result

I trust a autosomal DNA study more than your interpretation

http://i48.tinypic.com/4q5ww.png

[MfA_]

North-East Asian(NEA) and South East Asian(SEA) behaves similarly compared to West Eurasian in a 2D space due to low resolution but in a 3D space their directions would be different although their absolute distance would be similar that's why in low K's SEA and NEA lumps into Asian in that specific run..

[Insuperable]

You are silly since the beginning. Just because you write in capital letters "Armenians DO NOT HAVE mongoloid admixture" doesn't make your statement magically valid. You're just writing what you want and sharing your views which aren't supported by any science, ignoring the data or distorting it for your own agenda.

British people don't have the South Asian component but the North European and West Asian components, which at lower Ks of admixture (especially in the globe4, Dodecad), show up partially as Native American (over 6% in globe4, probably underestimated since Sardinians are the reference for pure West Eurasian). The Native American score explain the East Eurasian shift of Brits vis-à-vis Sardinians in global PCA plots.

Armenians are clearly East Eurasian-shifted, otherwise they would be to the West of Sardinians in global PCA plots, which nobody is in Eurasia, except the African-admixed MENA people like Bedouins (some of them) and Berbers.

Why should it be underestimated if Sardinians are a reference for pure West Eurasian? Isn't that a point, that is to use a valid reference with the lowest percentage of this ancient North Eurasian ancestry for a comparison?

[ButlerKing]

I don't know how the hell you're interpreting this result

I trust a autosomal DNA study more than your interpretation

http://i48.tinypic.com/4q5ww.png


Just want to point out the orange and yellow component represent east Asian and Siberian which are non-existant in Armenia.

In other words the Armenians are one of the purest Caucasian and pure Caucasoid.

The Kuban Nogays are mixture of Mongoloid Turkic and Caucasus and they look predominately Caucasoid. Where as the Nogais from the Nogay republic look predominately Mongoloid and so in this chart I shows you Nogays should have even more yellow and orange

http://photo1.kavkaz-uzel.ru/system/attachments/0003/0328/new_view.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Then you need to do nothing more than look at the world4. :)

In other tests additional components tend to cover this rich East Asian heritage. Should such calamity happen, only by looking at the relatedness of said components can we deduce it is still there. :cool:

There are more studies that shows 0% than even those with 0.5 - 2%

[Gaston]

I don't know how the hell you're interpreting this result

I trust a autosomal DNA study more than your interpretation

http://i48.tinypic.com/4q5ww.png

What interpretation? I'm reading the numbers and the PCA plots. You on the other hand don't even want to read the numbers in the spreadsheet argang posted and you ignore totally my PCA plot.

You're behaviour is getting annoying.

[Proto-Shaman]

No they don't.
Yes they do
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29554&d=1362511151

[Argang]

There are more studies that shows 0% than even those with 0.5 - 2%

And those would be the runs where East Asian of Armenians is hidden by other components, especially "South Asian" and even "West Asian".

[Pegasus]

Ancient Europeans were Cro-Magnid in terms of race, not Nordic.
Mongoloid features in some Finns didn’t make the Nordic race “mongoloid”, cause these Finns are of East-Baltic race. Due to some racial anthropologist, the East-Baltic race is a mixture of Mongolid races (especially the Tungid types) and the Nordic race. However, these races haven nothing to do with Ancient Europeans.

[ButlerKing]

What interpretation? I'm reading the numbers and the PCA plots. You on the other hand don't even want to read the numbers in the spreadsheet argang posted and you ignore totally my PCA plot.

You're behaviour is getting annoying.

Yeah and it is your wrong interpretations that's the problem.

I already told you so many times " Asian " in Armenian is NOT MONGOLOID RELATED WITH TURKS, MONGOLIANS, SIBERIANS, EAST ASIANS.

You just don't understand.......think for a second why the autosomal chart don't show any it

[ButlerKing]

Yes they do
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29554&d=1362511151

The DNA shows Bashkir are 40% Mongoloid and 60% Caucasian

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/bashkirs.html

[Gaston]

Why should it be underestimated if Sardinians are a reference for pure West Eurasian? Isn't that a point, that is to use a valid reference with the lowest percentage of this ancient North Eurasian ancestry for a comparison?

Since no pure West Eurasian population is alive today, the available algorithms have a hard time estimating real West Eurasian ancestry because Sardinians are most likely admixed too (as all Europeans). And Sardinians have been subject to isolation and bottleneck, which doesn't facilitate the work either because such populations tend to create their own self-centered component.

[Hweinlant]

Why should it be underestimated if Sardinians are a reference for pure West Eurasian? Isn't that a point, that is to use a valid reference with the lowest percentage of this ancient North Eurasian ancestry for a comparison?

Interesting paper. It shoots down few modern anthromyths. Sardinians and Basques actually are mixed.

http://i39.tinypic.com/71lgmp.png

They are not the mythical pure ur-med race some think they are.

[Insuperable]

Since no pure West Eurasian population is alive today, the available algorithms have a hard time estimating real West Eurasian ancestry because Sardinians are most likely admixed too (as all Europeans). And Sardinians have been subject to isolation and bottleneck, which doesn't facilitate the work either because such populations tend to create their own self-centered component.

Well, they and Basques are admixed too since they wrote "...we confirm undetected admixture present in Basques and Sardinians...", but okay thanks for explanation!

[Argang]

Interesting paper. It shoots down few modern anthromyths. Sardinians and Basques actually are mixed.

They are not the mythical pure ur-med race some think they are.

Interesting numbers. Obviously then a more admixed people, such as Armenians, would be even more Northeast Asian than we dared suspect...

[Gaston]

Well, they and Basques are admixed too since they wrote "...we confirm undetected admixture present in Basques and Sardinians...", but okay thanks for explanation!

You're welcome. But it's a very basic explanation (we're not going to do math here! :D). It actually makes sense because modern Humans have been in Eurasia for such a long time. Heck, there is even minor West Eurasian ancestry in Southernmost Africa among some hunter-gatherers: why would West Eurasians be more mobile than East Eurasians?


Interesting paper. It shoots down few modern anthromyths. Sardinians and Basques actually are mixed.

They are not the mythical pure ur-med race some think they are.

Agreed, they are just part of the European continuum which is only broken by the geographical isolation of Sardinians (island) and Basques. They are just the extreme Western end of the European genetic landscape, which ends in the Volga-Ural region at its extreme Eastern end.

[Proto-Shaman]

The DNA shows Bashkir are 40% Mongoloid and 60% Caucasian

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/bashkirs.html
And?

[ButlerKing]

And?

Armenians have 0% mongoloid admixture.

So when you said those Armenian look Bashkir is was bull.

[Hweinlant]

Interesting numbers. Obviously then a more admixed people, such as Armenians, would be even more Northeast Asian than we dared suspect...

Unless if they are fully Middle Eastern that is.. Treemix chart (Figure S4) doesnt show any "Ancient North Eurasian" influence into Middle East.

[Proto-Shaman]

Armenians have 0% mongoloid admixture.

So when you said those Armenian look Bashkir is was bull.
they still have the Erbin gene

[Argang]

Unless if they are fully Middle Eastern that is.. Treemix chart (Figure S4) doesnt show any "Ancient North Eurasian" influence into Middle East.

Adygei is a much better comparison. So looks like the Armenians indeed have a nice chunk of North Eurasian.

[Insuperable]

You're welcome. But it's a very basic explanation (we're not going to do math here! :D). It actually makes sense because modern Humans have been in Eurasia for such a long time. Heck, there is even minor West Eurasian ancestry in Southernmost Africa among some hunter-gatherers: why would West Eurasians be more mobile than East Eurasians?

Since we are all probably some mongrels it is still interesting how come Europeans, West Africans and East Asians based on genetic distances make a "triangle" on a PCA plot, but that is just me based on my limited understanding.

[Cern]

Ancient Europeans Cro-magnon! Ergo 0% mongoloid!

My opinion...:angel

[Hweinlant]

Adygei is a much better comparison. So looks like the Armenians indeed have a nice chunk of North Eurasian.

http://i41.tinypic.com/yffwy.png

Up to 46%.. oh my, thats quite something.

[Hweinlant]

Ancient Europeans Cro-magnon! Ergo 0% mongoloid!

My opinion...:angel

There is another interesting news on Polako's blog. Apparently the La Brana mesolithic hunter gatherer was tested for eye colour and it turned out to be blue.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/brana-1-had-blue-eyes.html

[chrisbab]

Don't get any wrong ideas. I actually find this claim extremely stupid and idiotic.
But I always did wanted to prove something. Nordics are not purer caucasoid

This study is referring to nordic people, the blonde/blue eye people.

The theory of blonde/blue eyes master race is a myth aswell as being pure european is also a myth.

Finns are racially 6 - 15% Siberian Mongoloid
http://www.chillnite.com/wp-content/gallery/pekka-eric_auvinen___jokela_high_school_massacre/Natural%20Selector%208.png


Where as Armenian are 100% pure Caucasoid. Brown hair and blue eyes are not uncommon.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bsw_am/19817157/237327/237327_original.jpg

But armenians are closer to east asian and africans than any europeans in term of pca plots.

[Scandal]

But armenians are closer to east asian and africans than any europeans in term of pca plots.
No