Russia cracking down on US Evangelical fraudsters

[RoyBatty]

Good news and long overdue in Russia. The US's Evangelical menace (spying and brainwashing front) will hopefully be hindered by these measures.



Russia - a field ready for harvest

Allie Martin - OneNewsNow - 10/26/2009 8:00:00 AM
A Southern Baptist evangelist who spends a lot of time ministering in Russia says the former Soviet Union is ripe for revival.

Michael Gott spends about half of his time in the United States conducting revivals and crusades, and the other half overseas, generally emphasizing on Russia. Gott reports that there has been an intense Russian interest in the gospel since the fall of communism.


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Missions/Default.aspx?id=736404

Notice the use of language, talking about "Crusades" and "Harvest". These clowns can't spread their tentacles fast enough around the globe to enslave and brainwash vulnerable people and to conduct intelligence operations on behalf of the US Govt which so often sponsors them.



Draft legislation threatens to make evangelism nearly impossible
Mission Network News - 11/2/2009
Russia (MNN) ― A draft legislation introduced this month threatens to make evangelism nearly impossible in Russia. A date has not yet been released for further ruling on the law, but in the meantime, evangelicals express concern.


If the draft legislation passes, minors in Russia will not be able to attend religious activities without the permission of their parents.
Russia (MNN) ― A draft legislation introduced this month threatens to make evangelism nearly impossible in Russia. A date has not yet been released for further ruling on the law, but in the meantime, evangelicals express concern.
"Only religious groups that have been registered in Russia for at least 15 year will be allowed to engage in any evangelistic or missionary activity," says Bob Provost of Slavic Gospel Association. "For example, if a North American church were to send a youth group over to help with a summer camp (which happens a lot), or if they were to send over a music group to help with evangelistic activity, it would not be allowed. Foreigners in Russia on a temporary visa would not be permitted."
The legislation also outlaws indigenous churches from any missionary activity within hospitals, orphanages, or homes for the aged. Children, under the new legislation, will be prohibited from attending religious activities without specific permission by a parent or guardian. This part of the law, in particular, would devastate specific ministry opportunities.
"The single greatest evangelistic opportunity that the Church has there today comes at Christmas time when they're able to hold Christmas events and invite children from the community," explains Provost. "In many cases, parents and grandparents accompany their children to these meetings and find out that the lies that they've been hearing via the media or in the public schools against evangelical Christianity are not true."
As if all of these restrictions were not limiting enough, the legislation forbids any "offers of material, social and other benefits," leaving the range of prohibited activity almost completely open-ended.
If passed, anyone convicted of anything under this legislation (offering food to the poor, sharing the Gospel with a child, evangelizing on a short-term trip etc.) could be fined up to $517 USD. The Russian Union of Evangelical Christians-Baptists (RUECB) has responded to the absurdity of the open-endedness of the draft legislation, but it does not appear as though the government has not appeared to have made any movement.
With all of these objectives brewing, an explanation as to "why" is appropriate. But so far, there doesn't appear to be substantial reasoning. Provost suggests that the legislation may be in defense of the Orthodox Church in Russia. Although the Baptist Church is not growing astronomically in Russia, it is growing and may well be considered a threat.
"It's evident to me that president Putin, when he came into power, put the government's arm around the Orthodox Church again in order to unify the country," says Provost. As a result, "Any religion that starts to get in the way of the Orthodox Church is going to be considered a threat, and steps are being taken to remove it."
Amid all of the concern, the Church continues to live on in Russia. "605 men have been set apart and are ready to be sent as missionaries all over the former Soviet Union. We're praying for partners who would help us send them," says Provost. "Nine out of ten communities are still waiting for a Gospel witness presence. In other words, nine out of ten communities have never had a Bible teaching church."
The RUECB is asking churches in Russia to fast and pray that the legislation would not be passed in any of the stages toward becoming law. Please pray with them.
Slavic Gospel Association will continue their work in Russia and the former Soviet Union.


http://www.onenewsnow.com/Missions/Default.aspx?id=749298

[Óttar]

These Christers should be dealt with cleanly and efficiently. Might I suggest using them as human fire-lanterns in Red Square in rememberance of Nero?

[RoyBatty]

Putting their talent to use as human torches sounds like a creative and ecologically friendly idea.

Alternatively they could help save lives by being volunteered for crash testing of transportation equipment or as live fire targets for Special Forces training exercises.

The advantages are obvious.

- Less scammers to suck the lifeblood out of good workingclass people.
- Cost and foreign exchange savings for Russia (less money being diverted out of the country to pay for Evangelical Church Private Jets, Limousines, Mansions etc)
- Improvement in mental health of local population
- Less CIA / NWO field agents to spy on Russian districts

[Anthropos]

Good news and long overdue in Russia. The US's Evangelical menace (spying and brainwashing front) will hopefully be hindered by these measures.



http://www.onenewsnow.com/Missions/Default.aspx?id=736404

Notice the use of language, talking about "Crusades" and "Harvest". These clowns can't spread their tentacles fast enough around the globe to enslave and brainwash vulnerable people and to conduct intelligence operations on behalf of the US Govt which so often sponsors them.



http://www.onenewsnow.com/Missions/Default.aspx?id=749298

Is proof of this claim available somewhere?

[Óttar]

Putting their talent to use as human torches sounds like a creative and ecologically friendly idea.
End dependence on foreign oil. Burn an Evangelical!

[RoyBatty]

Is proof of this claim available somewhere?

Proof of which particular claim? I make so many I can't even keep up with them myself! :thumb001:

If you're asking about US Govt sponsorship of Evangelicals, here's an example:

http://www.albionmonitor.com/0601a/copyright/evangelicalusaid.html

It's full of the usual pretty words and reasons why example "saving the world", "charity", "poor Africans" but the real reasons are usually to set up intelligence gathering networks.

The system is simple. The "missionaries" get $$$ sponsorship from the US Govt, they set up operations around the globe and in return for the US Govt backing and assistance they report back on matters which may be of interest to the US Govt.

Naturally they don't rely solely on Government funding as they have vast financial resources within the US and they aim to make their foreign operations profitable as soon as conditions permit.



Bill Berkowitz
January 8, 2006
Paul Bonicelli/USAID: The rest of the story
A number of high-powered Christian evangelical organizations have set up shop in Africa, aiming to transform the continent one small country at a time. USAID's Paul Bonicelli may help fast track these projects

Most Americans pay little attention to what's going on in Africa, and even less to the work evangelical Christian organizations are doing there. Except for the occasional article about the AIDS pandemic, a devastating drought, or an armed conflict, generally speaking only Africa-focused academics, inveterate news junkies, and/or former and current Peace Corps volunteers have their fingers on the pulse of developments in Africa.
Several high-powered U.S.-based Christian evangelical organizations are not only following developments in Africa, but they are making news. Some of these groups view the small countries of Africa as a Petri Dish for religious and social transformation.
Evangelicals' evangelizing is not surprising. However, the fact that many of these groups have teamed up with -- and are receiving significant support from -- the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) (website), is worth paying attention to.


http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=102



A new mood of aggressive evangelism has been emanating from America. Well-funded, superbly networked, backed by the highest of the land, seized of its moral supremacy, it has India as one of its key targets, reveals VK Shashikumar in a disturbing exposé

TEHELKA – October 9, 2008

This could be the plot of a fevered thriller. A jingoistic president, multi-million dollar corporations, high technology, a grand if furtive mission, networks spanning the globe, and biblical invocations.

Only it's real. And its got India in its crosshair.

Religious expansionism has not witnessed this scale, scope, and state resources in a long time. Detailed investigations by Tehelka reveal that American evangelical agencies have established in India an enormous, well-coordinated and strategised religious conversion plan. The operation was launched in the early 1990s but really came into its own after George W Bush Jr, an avowed born-again Christian, became president of the United States in 2001. Since then, aggressive evangelists have found pro-active support from the new administration in their efforts to convert some sections of Indian society to Christianity. At the heart of this complex and sophisticated operation is a simple strategy-convert locals and then give them the know-how and money to plant their own churches and multiply.
Around the time that Bush Jr moved into the Oval office, a worldwide conversion movement, funded and effected by American evangelical groups, was peaking in India. The movement, which began as AD2000 & Beyond and later morphed into Joshua Project I and Joshua Project II, was designed to be a sledgehammer-a breathtaking, decade-long steamroller of a campaign that would set the stage for a systematic, sophisticated and self-sustaining "harvest" of the "unreached people groups" in India in the 21st century. It was just as the operation was taking off that the script changed. Much to the delight of American evangelicals, one of their own, George Bush Jr, became the occupant of the White House.

In a major policy decision taken very early into his presidency, Bush, on January 29, 2001, unveiled a "faith based" social service initiative that included a new White House office to promote government aid to churches and Christian faith-based organisations. This, in effect, threw the massive weight of the federal government behind religious groups and religious conversions. The Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives was set up in the White House in the first week of February 2002 and a man called Jim Towey was appointed director. (A snap introduction to Towey: he was the legal counsel to Mother Teresa in the late 1980s.)




The data collected by experts from Wycliffe/Summer Institute of Linguistics, World Vision (WV) and the International Mission Board/Southern Baptists to compile the Joshua Project Peoples list included a detailed and comprehensive list of the people groups in India as well. Though this may appear normal international research activity - generating ethnographic profiles of non-Christian people groups in the 10/40 window - there are unseen dangers inherent in the compilation of such accurate people-group profiles.

The CIA has publicly admitted to having used Wycliffe/SIL and the Southern Baptists for covert intelligence operations in many parts of the world. The cosy relationship between the Wycliffe and CIA is documented exhaustively in a book Thy Will Be Done written in the 1990s by Gerald Colby and Charlotte Dennett. The book documents joint CIA-Wycliffe missions to source anthropological data from Latin America. Here's a quote from the book: "SIL had helped gather anthropological information on the Tarascan Indians that ended up in Nelson Rockefeller's intelligence files. The files contained cross-references to reveal behavioural patterns among Indian peoples in everything from socialisation (including aggressive tendencies) and personality traits, drives, emotions, and language structure, to political intrigue, kinship ties, traditional authority, mineral resources, exploitation, and labor relations. Rockefeller called these data the Strategic Index of Latin America." The question that will rattle not only the Indian government, but also outrage the Indian citizens is whether the American-funded "spying missions" carried out by Indian and foreign missionary agencies through more than a decade has resulted in the preparation of a 'Strategic Index of India' at the CIA headquarters?




On October 3, 2002, the US department of health and human services announced that television evangelist, Pat Robertson's charity, Operation Blessing, would be given demonstration grants through the so-called Compassion Capital Fund. Robertson's organisation and the other "intermediaries" were free to distribute this federal grant (essentially American tax payers' money) to religious groups and community groups of their choice to provide social services.




On September 21, 2000, Bush wrote in USA Today that he would allocate $80 billion over 10 years in tax incentives to help churches (in America) provide social services. The US government has established an unparalleled partnership with Christian religious organisations. In the last week of September 2003, the US administration announced new rules enabling Christian religious institutions to access $20 billion worth of federal grants.




Christian NGOs in India

The Bush administration's prescription of religiosity as social policy has gratified the religious Right in the US. The proponents of faith-based initiatives want US government funds to go to those churches and Christian NGOs that consider conversion as part of rehabilitation activities. Since the USAID funds Christian NGOs in India and also since US trans-national Chrisitian NGOs like World Vision and CARE are heavily involved in development initiatives in India, their role in evangelical activities is not a matter of conjecture.

It is, of course, another matter that USAID plays a vital role in intelligence gathering operations for the CIA. President John F Kennedy had established USAID, along with the Peace Corps and the Alliance for Progress, "all three designed in part to stem the spread of communism." The link between the CIA and Christian missionary groups is USAID. This is written in great detail in Thy Will Be Done. Here's a quote again: "…That June, President Nixon's director of (US) AID, John Hannah, had admitted publicly that AID had funded CIA operations in Laos, and subsequent revelations pointed to CIA-AID collaboration in Ecuador, Uruguay, Thailand and the Phillippines." In fact, CIA-supported missionaries were embroiled in counter-insurgency operations, civil wars and were more often than not conduits for arms and armaments for Christian insurgent groups all over the world.

Under President Bush's fundamentalist Christian government, the era of CIA-USAID-Evangelicals partnership has come back with a roar. And a world caught up in "War on Terror" and the search for elusive weapons of mass destruction, has had no time to notice.

In any case, aid dispensed by USAID was hardly meant to spur development. During the Cold War, it was meant to keep the former Soviet Union at bay and to keep afloat, bloated, venal and corrupt regimes all over the world.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/15060-bush-government-christian-conversions-india.html

[Cato]

They spread their own doctrines rather than the teachings of Jesus, just as all "churches" do, from the Catholic to the manifold Protestant groups. Jesus didn't belong to a church, he was just a single man who had a unique vision of the world. All of the accumulated centuries of dogma and commentary is simply fodder for the trashpile.

If it's Russia, just pass out copies of Tolstoy's Gospel in Brief to the people there. That's a better book than any, sort of a Russian version of the Jefferson Bible.

[Fred]

Secular totalitarianism is wonderful. Kudos! :clap2:

[Wölfin]

Good stuff :thumbs up

[Cato]

Those shitheads ought to be trying to heal the hearts and minds at home here in the U.S. before gallivanting off to Russia.

[Poltergeist]

The whole eastern Europe and Russia are full of these US Protestant-Evangelical missionaries who molest people in the streets, try to disguise themselves as "humanitarians" or English teachers, organize lectures on seemigly "neutral" topics (like "what is the meaning of life...etc") etc. They are usually contemptuous of the locally practiced variety of Christianity, which is for them merely a Satanic delusion and deception, whereas it is only them who possess the true key to Jeeeez's. Their religion boils down to Bible thumping, Bible über alles, tradition means nothing. In some seemigly "casual" conversation with some of them you may expect to be flooded with Biblical quotes, something like in every third sentence.

Just the other day I came across such a Bible thumper in the street (he was Baptist or something like that?), who molested me for a half an hour about how he is already saved (sic!), which is something that he knows (sic!), and how works are worth nothing for the salvation, only faith etc. In the beginning I was polite, but later he irritated me so much that I had to leave the scene abruptly in order to avoid telling him everything in the face or maybe something even worse.

[Cato]

The whole eastern Europe and Russia are full of these US Protestant-Evangelical missionaries who molest people in the streets, try to disguise themselves as "humanitarians" or English teachers, organize lectures on seemigly "neutral" topics (like "what is the meaning of life...etc") etc. They are usually contemptuous of the locally practiced variety of Christianity, which is for them merely a Satanic delusion and deception, whereas it is only them who possess the true key to Jeeeez's. Their religion boils down to Bible thumping, Bible über alles, tradition means nothing. In some seemigly "casual" conversation with some of them you may expect to be flooded with Biblical quotes, something like in every third sentence.

Just the other day I came across such a Bible thumper in the street (he was Baptist or something like that?), who molested me for a half an hour about how he is already saved (sic!), which is something that he knows (sic!), and how works are worth nothing for the salvation, only faith etc. In the beginning I was polite, but later he irritated me so much that I had to leave the scene abruptly in order to avoid telling him everything in the face or maybe something even worse.

You can find these windbags on street corners in the U.S. I consider them to be another variety of sub-hominid life like junkies and people that pick through trashcans.

Since it's close by to me, let's see what the trusty King James has to say:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly" (Matt. 6:5-6).

Totally butchering the teachings of Jesus whilst teaching their own doctrines, ayup, organized American Christianity is largely a joke. :thumbs up

http://faithfool.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/jesus_action.jpg

[RoyBatty]

The whole eastern Europe and Russia are full of these US Protestant-Evangelical missionaries who molest people in the streets, try to disguise themselves as "humanitarians" or English teachers, organize lectures on seemigly "neutral" topics (like "what is the meaning of life...etc") etc. They are usually contemptuous of the locally practiced variety of Christianity, which is for them merely a Satanic delusion and deception, whereas it is only them who possess the true key to Jeeeez's. Their religion boils down to Bible thumping, Bible über alles, tradition means nothing. In some seemigly "casual" conversation with some of them you may expect to be flooded with Biblical quotes, something like in every third sentence.

Just the other day I came across such a Bible thumper in the street (he was Baptist or something like that?), who molested me for a half an hour about how he is already saved (sic!), which is something that he knows (sic!), and how works are worth nothing for the salvation, only faith etc. In the beginning I was polite, but later he irritated me so much that I had to leave the scene abruptly in order to avoid telling him everything in the face or maybe something even worse.

I hesitate to call these people "Christians", imo their ideology and teachings are warped to such an extent that they don't qualify. They may identify themselves as "Protestants" but imo they're a sect albeit it a large and powerful one.

[RoyBatty]

We've already covered the Intelligence Gathering activities of the Evangelicals. Another line of their business happens to be the Oil business, particularly in South America but also increasingly in Africa today.

Whenever next you hear Zionists, Evangelicals and Hollywood movie stars cry on TV about the "humanitarian disaster in Darfur", keep in mind what their crocodile tears are really being shed for. Yes, it's OIL. Lots of it.

More on the Oil / Evangelical angle and organisations like SIL here:



Missionary activities

SIL has been accused of being involved in moving indigenous populations in South America from their native lands to make way for exploitation schemes of North American and European oil corporations. The most well known example is the case of the Huaorani people in Ecuador, which resulted in many deaths and the moving of the people into reservations controlled by the missionaries.

In 1975, thirty anthropologists signed "The Denouncement of Pátzcuaro", alleging that SIL was a "tool of imperialism", linked to the CIA and "divisions within the communities that constitutes a hindrance to their organization and the defence of their communal rights".

In 1979, SIL's agreement with the Mexican government was officially terminated, but it continued to be active in that country (Clarke, p. 182). The same happened in 1980 in Ecuador (Yashar 2005, p. 118), although a token presence remained. Remnants of SIL presence were protested in every subsequent Indian uprising[9]. In the early 1990s, the newly-formed organisation of indigenous people of Ecuador CONAIE once more demanded the expulsion of SIL from the country[10].

At a conference of the Inter-American Indian Institute in Merida, Yucatan, in November 1980, delegates denounced the Summer Institute of Linguistics for using a scientific name to conceal its religious agenda and capitalist worldview that was alien to indigenous traditions[11]

John Perkins provides an example of criticism of SIL activity:
I had heard that (Jaime Roldos, President of Ecuador, 1979-81) accused The Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL), an evangelical missionary group from the United States, of sinister collusion with the oil companies. I was familiar with SIL missionaries from my Peace Corps days. The organization had entered Ecuador, as it had in so many other countries, with the professed goal of studying, recording, and translating indigenous languages.

SIL had been working extensively with the Huaorani and Matsés tribes in the Amazon basin area, during the early years of oil exploration, when a disturbing pattern appeared to emerge. While it might have been a coincidence (and no link was ever proved), stories were told in many Amazonian communities that when seismologists reported to corporate headquarters that a certain region had characteristics indicating a high probability of oil beneath the surface, SIL went in and encouraged the indigenous people to move from that land, onto missionary reservations; there they would receive free food, shelter, clothes, medical treatment, and missionary-style education. The condition was that they had to deed their lands to the oil companies.

Rumors abounded that SIL missionaries used an assortment of underhanded techniques to persuade the tribes to abandon their homes and move to the missions. A frequently repeated story was that they had donated food heavily laced with laxatives - then offered medicines to cure the diarrhea epidemic. Throughout Huaorani territory, SIL airdropped false-bottomed food baskets containing tiny radio transmitters; The rumor was that receivers at highly sophisticated communications stations, manned by U.S. military personnel at the army base in Shell [a frontier outpost and military base hacked out of Ecuador’s Amazon jungle to service the oil company whose name it bears], tuned into these transmitters. Whenever a member of the tribe was bitten by a poisonous snake or became seriously ill, an SIL representative arrived with antivenom or the proper medicines - often in oil company helicopters."[12]

SIL was allegedly financed initially by expatriate coffee processors in Guatemala, and later by the Rockefellers, Standard Oil, the timber company Weyerhauser, and USAID. [...] By the 1980s, [SIL] was expelled from Brazil, Ecuador, Mexico, and Panama, and restricted in Colombia and Peru[13].


http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/SIL-International

Take not how often the Rockefeller name creeps up when it comes to these types of activities. Naturally it's "purely coincidental". Yeah right. :rolleyes2:

[Smaland]

Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Jamt]

I am happy to be living in a society where half insane "enthusiasm Christianity", Scientologists and Hare Krishna’s or truth seekers with ideas about 9/11 are tolerated. It means I am allowed to hold counter culture opinions like skepticism for modernity. Russian society is alien to a westerner and life under such a regime must be miserable.

[Anthropos]

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

Revelation 14:12-13

It may be noted that Luther, a proponent of 'sola fide' (faith alone), wanted to exclude Revelation from The Holy Scripture. He did not like this book, and he did not even consider it to be good reading. However - and should I add 'needless to say'? - he did not in any way have the right to change the Canon.

[RoyBatty]

I am happy to be living in a society where half insane "enthusiasm Christianity", Scientologists and Hare Krishna’s or truth seekers with ideas about 9/11 are tolerated. It means I am allowed to hold counter culture opinions like skepticism for modernity. Russian society is alien to a westerner and life under such a regime must be miserable.

Unlike the majority of "Russian experts" on this board I've actually been to Russia a number of times. It's a nation of anarchists where people do and say whatever they feel like. This popular claim amongst many of you smartypants that the "Russian State" somehow dictates what people are allowed to say, read, think or watch is laughable. You can get away with a lot more over there than what you can in many EU countries.

Let's take an example and compare that to Sweden where political correctness and self-censorship by the media and the thought police has the country bending over to submit to Allah, Feminazis and Zionism.

If self-induced national suicide is your idea of a "tolerant society" then.... well.... what can one say. Keep dreaming those happy dreams because in a couple of decades your tolerant society will have made you redundant.

[Anthropos]

Unlike the majority of "Russian experts" on this board I've actually been to Russia a number of times. It's a nation of anarchists where people do and say whatever they feel like. This popular claim amongst many of you smartypants that the "Russian State" somehow dictates what people are allowed to say, read, think or watch is laughable. You can get away with a lot more over there than what you can in many EU countries.

Let's take an example and compare that to Sweden where political correctness and self-censorship by the media and the thought police has the country bending over to submit to Allah, Feminazis and Zionism.

If self-induced national suicide is your idea of a "tolerant society" then.... well.... what can one say. Keep dreaming those happy dreams because in a couple of decades your tolerant society will have made you redundant.

I agree with you.

However, Islam has no political power in Sweden. On the contrary, our regime is extremely concerned with 'educating' Muslims into political correctness, just as it is very concerned with this in general. A few liberal and secular 'Muslims' have risen to one position or other in the system, just like Walloons, Germans, Finns and Jews did before them, but that has nothing to do with Islam.

Jamt is going to contest this no end, but he has solely pragmatic reasons for his hysterical paranoia over Islam, since somehow he regards this ressentiment to be the only base for his preferred politics, which in my opinion can only be a brand of globalism, but this, again, he will contest no end.

[Smaland]

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

Revelation 14:12-13

It may be noted that Luther, a proponent of 'sola fide' (faith alone), wanted to exclude Revelation from The Holy Scripture. He did not like this book, and he did not even consider it to be good reading. However - and should I add 'needless to say'? - he did not in any way have the right to change the Canon.

Agreed, that no one on earth has the authority to change the Canon, and the Book of Revelation is a part of that Canon.

However, Ephesians 2:8-9 still holds, and this Scripture does not contradict it. Works have no part in the salvation experience itself. However, good works and good deeds are still very important. They are the evidence that a person has been saved, that he has truly become a Christian.

[Jamt]

Unlike the majority of "Russian experts" on this board I've actually been to Russia a number of times. It's a nation of anarchists where people do and say whatever they feel like. This popular claim amongst many of you smartypants that the "Russian State" somehow dictates what people are allowed to say, read, think or watch is laughable. You can get away with a lot more over there than what you can in many EU countries.

Let's take an example and compare that to Sweden where political correctness and self-censorship by the media and the thought police has the country bending over to submit to Allah, Feminazis and Zionism.

If self-induced national suicide is your idea of a "tolerant society" then.... well.... what can one say. Keep dreaming those happy dreams because in a couple of decades your tolerant society will have made you redundant.

I can sense a lot of hate for the West from you. If I understand right you are an immigrant to Western Europe? If you hate us so much why don’t you fuck off from it?

[RoyBatty]

I agree with you too Comrade Anthropos. Islam hasn't got much power...... yet, however, it's a numbers game. 30 years ago there would have been almost no Muslims in Sweden. Today they're just about to become the majority in Malmo (if they aren't already).

What puzzles and concerns me is that in the meantime, one can't sometimes help but get the impression that the liberals are deliberately, inadvertently (or both) empowering the Muslims and multiculturalisation in general. In other words, they are behind a system which has transformation of society at its core and what this means is that in a couple of decades it's going to be tickets for Swedes in Sweden in the same way that it's going to be tickets for a number of other European Nations in their various (ex) Nation States.

The EU will become a type of UN with a rainbow population, cultural and religious makeup. In the past this type of behaviour would have led to heads being chopped off for treason, civil wars and stories and tales of heroics about how the defenders managed to save their lands from invaders.

No more in the PC EU. Submission to outside rule, rulers and ideologies (Islam, Zionism etc) and Treason are now the virtues which Liberals, 5th Columnists and The State force down our throats.

[RoyBatty]

I can sense a lot of hate for the West from you. If I understand right you are an immigrant to Western Europe? If you hate us so much why don’t you fuck off from it?

Why don't you go sodomise yourself with that pretty little pitchfork of yours, EUrofag. It would fit in with your culture of diversity and tolerance, now wouldn't it.

[Anthropos]

Agreed, that no one on earth has the authority to change the Canon, and the Book of Revelation is a part of that Canon.

However, Ephesians 2:8-9 still holds, and this Scripture does not contradict it. Works have no part in the salvation experience itself. However, good works and good deeds are still very important. They are the evidence that a person has been saved, that he has truly become a Christian.

The problem with Luther et al is that the approach is rationalist:


Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen! (Luther, from Smaland's signature)

And the Scripture is not. There is evidence of this in Scripture; e.g. some numbers are obviously inexact, and the writer must've been aware of this. Many of the most important points are presented in parables and as works. Also, rationalism did not even exist in that time.

I don't agree with the Lutheran interpretation of Scripture. The idea that works are only the evidence that someone is... did you say 'saved'? Anyway, it's far too mechanistic. Life is a struggle, and one that the New Testament bears witness to. Sola fide is a superficial point of view, in my opinion. Without Tradition, everything is open to interpretations, and Luther's interpretation is just one out of many 'reasonable' and 'rational' interpretations.

[The Lawspeaker]

I can sense a lot of hate for the West from you. If I understand right you are an immigrant to Western Europe? If you hate us so much why don’t you fuck off from it?
That's because he doesn't hate the West. You know. We in the West are under siege and he seems to realize that but on the other hand he closes his eyes for the bullshit that's going on (and has always been going on) in Russia.

And in South Africa they would murder him.

[Jamt]

Why don't you go sodomise yourself with that pretty little pitchfork of yours, EUrofag. It would fit in with your culture of diversity and tolerance, now wouldn't it.

With a pitchfork?
Is that a KGB thing?
Nice people the Ruskis.

[Cato]

Being a follower of Jesus is, to me, following Jesus only. However the big money questions is: What did Jesus actually teach? Given 2,000 years of mangled doctrines and, at times, violent schismatic conflicts, heaven alone knows- because Jesus is long dead. To this end, the reconstructionist efforts of, say, the Jesus Seminar and similar efforts to get to as good of a picture of Jesus as possible are highly laudable.

All of this nonsense about "Why would the apostles die for a lie" is BS becaused the accounts of the earliest days of Christianity are mangled: Peter was Jesus' successor, James was Jesus' succsor; Judas died after he hung himself, Judas died via exploding till his guts came out; Jesus has two family trees; Paul never met Jesus in person yet his teachings are more important than the teachings of Jesus himself. Et cetera. Modern Christians are mostly the inheritors of this chicanery and they accept the doctrines of the many churches are the doctrines of Jesus (best summed-up in the Gospel Q or Gospel Thomas imo). So, being confused by the doctrines of the churches, many people reject Jesus and his teachings entirely- which is unjust, because he was a [passively] heroic man imo who stood up to the deceit and hypocrisy of his day. Now, the deceivers and hypocrites claim to speak for him and, to top it all off, call him God or the Son of God to boot. Reading Gospel in Brief tells us, from Tolstoy's interpretation of the New Testament, that Jesus came to teach the life of/in the spirit of the [true] Son of God: not Jesus, but the spirit that exists in everyone. This was his [Tolstoy's] idea of the Son of God. Jesus was just the messenger/teacher and was confused for the actual subject of the message by his hearers.

[RoyBatty]

he closes his eyes for the bullshit that's going on (and has always been going on) in Russia.


Go visit it some time, then we talk again :)

[The Lawspeaker]

Go visit it some time, then we talk again :)
Sure thing. I will visit Russia one day. After all some people used to visit the Third Reich too during the 1930s.

[Poltergeist]

I hesitate to call these people "Christians", imo their ideology and teachings are warped to such an extent that they don't qualify. They may identify themselves as "Protestants" but imo they're a sect albeit it a large and powerful one.

I don't call them Christians at all.

[Smaland]

The American news media is controlled by the Left (except perhaps for the Fox Network), and it is virulently anti-Christian. Being as powerful as it is, the US press certainly has the resources to discover that Wycliffe and the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) are arms of the CIA. It would take great satisfaction in reporting such a story.

Yet I have never seen such a news report, not even once. This tends to cast significant doubt on the theory that Wycliffe and the SBC are intelligence arms of the US government.

[RoyBatty]

Imo the Mainstream US media is virulently controlled by the same special interests mafias and Fox News is simply the NWO's "rightwing flavour". After all, consumers and democracies need choices! So the bosses got together and gave them their choice. You can watch Fox or you can watch CNN but ultimately both serve the same masters.

This is no different to the Republican and Democrat Parties. All show and no substance. Apart from the windowdressing there's little to distinguish them from one another.

[anonymaus]

Imo the Mainstream US media is virulently controlled by the same special interests mafias and Fox News is simply the NWO's "rightwing flavour". After all, consumers and democracies need choices! So the bosses got together and gave them their choice. You can watch Fox or you can watch CNN but ultimately both serve the same masters.

FNC is very clearly and transparently a purely business based venture, which taps an otherwise untapped market. If the rest of the media had been right wing, Rupert would have opened a left-wing slanted network. If it's a conspiracy you seek, look to simple rules of capitalism: provide a desired service which doesn't already exist.


This is no different to the Republican and Democrat Parties. All show and no substance. Apart from the windowdressing there's little to distinguish them from one another.


I agree. This is probably true of 90% of the elected officials in the West in general: their aspirations simply become holding onto power once elected. Re-election is a much stronger motivation for a politician than, say, principles.

[Fred]

So the verdict is out:

People love to blame religion. Anticlericalism is so passe.

[RoyBatty]

Since when did cults = clericalism? Somebody appears to be suffering from comprehension deficit syndrome.

[Fred]

Since when did cults = clericalism? Somebody appears to be suffering from comprehension deficit syndrome.Sure, that's it. Spread your Jacobin love around the world.:rolleyes:

[Austin]

I agree this is a good thing. Russian Orthodox Christianity is thriving and is a good solid institution for Russia.

[RoyBatty]

I agree this is a good thing. Russian Orthodox Christianity is thriving and is a good solid institution for Russia.

At any rate, it's vastly preferable over Baptist and Evangelist money grabbing rabblerousers, spies and brainwashers. It's also native to Russia whilst the charismatic movements aren't.

I understand that many people have reservations about organised religion, be it Christianitiy, Islam or whatever but the proles are sheep and need something to cling on to.

Better to give them a "least of all evils" kind of system (for example the Russian Orthodox Church) than they be led astray by Secularist or Marxist Multi Kulti Agitators, US TV Preachers, Bizarre Cults etc.

[Debaser11]

In regards to the title, thank God!:rolleyes2:

Evangelicals are so scary. :rolleyes2: