Northern Irish

[Loki]

The Northern Irish are primarily descendants of Lowland Scots, hence Anglo-Saxon (Lowland Scots are of Anglo-Saxon origins). They are Presbyterian. They came to settle in Ulster after 1607.

[Baluarte]

So... they aren't really Irish?

[Smaug]

They are more Irish than the Irish themselves. Joking. They are invaders.

[Loki]

So... they aren't really Irish?

No.

[Baluarte]

Freedom for Ireland!

[Loki]

100,000 Lowland Scots settled in Ulster after 1600. Their descendants are today's Northern Irish.

[Loki]

Freedom for Ireland!

Well, there are 1.8 million Northern Irish and they have been there for 400 years. Comparable to Afrikaners in South Africa.

[Loki]

Many of these Scotch-Irish immigrated to America. They have an estimated 27 million descendants there.

[Smaug]

100,000 Lowland Scots settled in Ulster after 1600. Their descendants are today's Northern Irish.

Why are you so worried boss? :P
If Novella was Gaelic and Catholic you wouldn't like her?

[Smaug]

Many of these Scotch-Irish immigrated to America. They have an estimated 27 million descendants there.

Don't use "Scotch-Irish", this is an American thing and the Northern Irish don't like it. Use "Ulster Scots".

[Loki]

Why are you so worried boss? :P
If Novella was Gaelic and Catholic you wouldn't like her?

I'm glad she's Protestant and of Anglo-Saxon origins. I want my line to remain Germanic.

[Loki]

Don't use "Scotch-Irish", this is an American thing and the Northern Irish don't like it. Use "Ulster Scots".

I know, I'm specifically using it for the North American emigres.

[Loki]

Following Irish defeat at the Battle of Kinsale, though, the region's Gaelic, Roman Catholic aristocracy fled to continental Europe in 1607 and the region became subject to major programmes of colonialism by Protestant English (mainly Anglican) and Scottish (mainly Presbyterian) settlers. Between 1610 and 1717 perhaps as many as 100,000 Lowlanders came across from Scotland, and by the latter date there were some five Scots to every three Irishmen and one Englishman in Ulster. A rebellion in 1641 by Irish aristocrats against English rule resulted in a massacre of settlers in Ulster in the context of a war breaking out between England, Scotland and Ireland fuelled by religious intolerance in government. Victories by English forces in that war and further Protestant victories in the Williamite War in Ireland toward the close of the 17th century solidified Anglican rule in Ireland. In Northern Ireland, the victories of the Siege of Derry (1689) and the Battle of the Boyne (1690) in this latter war are still celebrated by the Unionist community (both Anglican and Presbyterian).

Following the victory of 1691, and contrary to the terms of the Treaty of Limerick, a series of penal laws was passed by the Anglican ruling class in Ireland. Their intention was to materially disadvantage the Catholic community and, to a lesser extent, the Presbyterian community. In the context of open institutional discrimination, the 18th century saw secret, militant societies develop in communities in the region and act on sectarian tensions in violent attacks. These events escalated at the end of the century following an event known as the Battle of the Diamond, which saw the supremacy of the Anglican and Presbyterian Peep o'Day Boys over the Catholic Defenders and leading to the formation of the (Anglican) Orange Order.

[Smaug]

I'm glad she's Protestant and of Anglo-Saxon origins. I want my line to remain Germanic.

You gave up on atheism?

[Loki]

The descendants of the Irish who remained in Ulster are today's Catholics there.

[Loki]

You gave up on atheism?

Culturally Protestant.

[Loki]

We're both atheists. The only thing we will use the church for would be to get married.

[Black Wolf]

North Irish Protestants are mainly the descendants of Lowland Scots and English who came during the Plantations of Ulster. I have many North Irish ancestors on my mother's side. Their ancestry, religion and political views are what separate them from the native Irish.

[Baluarte]

Culturally Protestant.

In spite of denominational conflict, I congratulate you for having an ethnocultural identity. It's very positive to prevent the descent into total identitylessness and forced homogeneity.

Cheers.

[Celxon]

North Irish Protestants are mainly the descendants of Lowland Scots and English who came during the Plantations of Ulster. I have many North Irish ancestors on my mother's side. Their ancestry, religion and political views are what separate them from the native Irish.

What about the Protestant Ascendancy? Are they "fake" Irish? All of those great poets, writers, soldiers and statesman? They're all limeys?

[Black Wolf]

What about the Protestant Ascendancy? Are they "fake" Irish? All of those great poets, writers, soldiers and statesman? They're all limeys?

To be totally honest I am not sure. People may call them fake Irish but I know for a fact that my North Irish Protestant relatives still thought and do still think of themselves as being Irish even though they were/are different from the Catholics.

[Longbowman]

What about the Protestant Ascendancy? Are they "fake" Irish? All of those great poets, writers, soldiers and statesman? They're all limeys?

Being born in a stable doesn't make a man a horse.

But to me the genetic differences between us and the potato people are so small as to make the difference negligible. What separates us is religion and republicanism.

Still, culturally, yes.

[Celxon]

To be totally honest I am not sure. People may call them fake Irish but I know for a fact that my North Irish Protestant relatives still thought and do still think of themselves as being Irish even though they were/are different from the Catholics.

They're Irish. To say otherwise is like saying that only Native Americans are true Americans. The rest of us are "fake". Seriously, these aren't the 1600s. By sectarian logic, descendants of the Jamestown colonists are English, not American.

[Smaug]

There are also some Catholic Ulster-Scots. Don't know if they have Gaelic in them though.

[Celxon]

Being born in a stable doesn't make a man a horse.

But to me the genetic differences between us and the potato people are so small as to make the difference negligible. What separates us is religion and republicanism.

Still, culturally, yes.

That's true in parts of Ulster, but Anglo-Irish historical figures, like Bram Stoker, are seen as Irish. Where is the delineation point where one become a "real" Irish person? Do we find the line of demarcation at the birth of the ROI, or do we go all the way back to the arrival of the Anglo-Normans and Cambro-Normans? Are the descendants of the Barrys, Burkes, Butlers, Fitzgeralds, Nugents, etc. not Irish?

[Baluarte]

They're Irish. To say otherwise is like saying that only Native Americans are true Americans. The rest of us are "fake". Seriously, these aren't the 1600s. By sectarian logic, descendants of the Jamestown colonists are English, not American.

It's a problem because of these Protestant "Irish" that the whole island has been unable to be reunified again.

[Longbowman]

That's true in parts of Ulster, but Anglo-Irish historical figures, like Bram Stoker, are seen as Irish. Where is the delineation point where one become a "real" Irish person? Do we find the line of demarcation at the birth of the ROI, or do we go all the way back to the arrival of the Anglo-Normans and Cambro-Normans? Are the descendants of the Barrys, Burkes, Butlers, Fitzgeralds, Nugents, etc. not Irish?

We generally consider it to be a case of self-identification. The cultures are so similar anyway.

[Black Wolf]

They're Irish. To say otherwise is like saying that only Native Americans are true Americans. The rest of us are "fake". Seriously, these aren't the 1600s. By sectarian logic, descendants of the Jamestown colonists are English, not American.

Ya exactly I agree.

[Celxon]

It's a problem because of these Protestant "Irish" that the whole island has been unable to be reunified again.

Well, the United Irishmen, many of whom were Protestant, would beg to differ.

[Celxon]

There are also some Catholic Ulster-Scots. Don't know if they have Gaelic in them though.

Their great-grandmas had plenty of Gaelic in them.:cool:

[Fear Fiain]

if they don't like being irish they can always move to scotland :) the scots have a homeland. it's called scotland. also, ulster was not mainly empty like SA was, it was filled with the people who the ulster scots murdered down to the last infant, sparing only what women they desired to rape.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Northern-Irish-Is-Not-A-Proper-Nationality/200134240064104?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Irish-Holocaust-Not-Famine-The-Push-to-educate-in-facts/95407379904?fref=ts

[Stanley]

'Irish' is just a word and it can mean whatever one wants it to mean in different contexts, i.e. geographically Irish, racially Irish, culturally Irish, etc.

Whatever the semantics, there is an Irishness about the indigenous Irish Catholics which is absent in the "Northern Irish."

[Celxon]

We generally consider it to be a case of self-identification. The cultures are so similar anyway.

That's how it is in the USA. A lot of mutts stress one ancestry at the exclusion of others.

[Celxon]

if they don't like being irish they can always move to scotland :) the scots have a homeland. it's called scotland. also, ulster was not mainly empty like SA was, it was filled with the people who the ulster scots murdered down to the last infant, sparing only what women they desired to rape.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Northern-Irish-Is-Not-A-Proper-Nationality/200134240064104?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Irish-Holocaust-Not-Famine-The-Push-to-educate-in-facts/95407379904?fref=ts




Demagogue much?

[Celxon]

Whatever the semantics, there is an Irishness about the indigenous Irish Catholics which is absent in the "Northern Irish."

Like what? That sounds like more anthropology forum bullshit.

[Óttar]

Northern Irish, both Protestant and Catholic are eligible to be citizens of the Republic of Ireland.

[Stanley]

Like what? That sounds like more anthropology forum bullshit.

If that's what you want to call it...

So you think they're exactly the same besides religious differences, Irish and Northern Irish?

[Celxon]

If that's what you want to call it...

So you think they're exactly the same besides religious differences, Irish and Northern Irish?

I never said that they were identical. There's all kinds of diversity in Ireland, and it's not limited to just the differences between North and South. I just wanted to know what the huge differences were.

[Fear Fiain]

Northern Irish, both Protestant and Catholic are eligible to be citizens of the Republic of Ireland.

that's because Irish isn't a religion. it's a culture and a nation and a people.
and protestants are just as Irish as any.
hell the first Republicans, Henry Joy McCracken, Wolfe Tone, were presbyterians, and the United Irishmen initially didn't let catholics join. The Presbyterians also suffered discrimination alongside their catholic brothers at the hands of the Crown and the Anglican State-Church.

[Graham]

They are not all of Scots ancestry.

I mean look at the current religion stats.

41% Catholic
19% Presbyterian
14% Anglican

[Fear Fiain]

They are not all of Scots ancestry.

I mean look at the current religion stats.

41% Catholic
19% Presbyterian
14% Anglican

the english who were the ones who murdered, are the anglicans. the presbyterians are half scots and half irish protestants. yes, some irish people became protestant. it was like, this giant historical event called the reformation.
my mom is what you would call "green presbyterian" : irish, supports a united ireland, proud to be irish, proud to be protestant.

[Longbowman]

the english who were the ones who murdered, are the anglicans. the presbyterians are half scots and half irish protestants. yes, some irish people became protestant. it was like, this giant historical event called the reformation.
my mom is what you would call "green presbyterian" : irish, supports a united ireland, proud to be irish, proud to be protestant.

Yes. The English are the bad guys. Up the 'RA.

You're American, you don't really get a say on the issue anyway. Besides, there are no pure English/Welsh/Scots there, all we can know is that the original settlers were overwhelmingly Scottish (one sources gives it as nine Scots to every three Welsh to every one Englishman). Considering support for the Union is at well over the 50% mark you can be sure it's not only Anglicans who support it anyway. Very few Irish became protestant during the Reformation or at all for many reasons - one of which being at the time, the Crown's control of Ireland was limited to the Pale, which was just Dublin and the surrounding area.

[Loki]

They are not all of Scots ancestry.

I mean look at the current religion stats.

41% Catholic
19% Presbyterian
14% Anglican

From Wikipedia:

Protestantism 42%
Roman Catholicism 41%
No religion 17%
Non-Christian religions 1%

Northern Ireland is the whitest part of the UK, and also whiter than Ireland.



98.28% White
1.06% Asian
0.20% Black
0.46% other

[Loki]

Novella can speak Scots

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/ScotsLanguageMap.png

[Fear Fiain]

Yes. The English are the bad guys. Up the 'RA.

You're American, you don't really get a say on the issue anyway. Besides, there are no pure English/Welsh/Scots there, all we can know is that the original settlers were overwhelmingly Scottish (one sources gives it as nine Scots to every three Welsh to every one Englishman). Considering support for the Union is at well over the 50% mark you can be sure it's not only Anglicans who support it anyway. Very few Irish became protestant during the Reformation or at all for many reasons - one of which being at the time, the Crown's control of Ireland was limited to the Pale, which was just Dublin and the surrounding area.

thanks for the history lesson, I'd never heard of the pale. I've also never heard of the plantation, or of the battle of the boyne, and I'm also not trying to dumb down and explanation of the plantation of ulster or explain how the english aristocrats who settled it had to bring in scots to settle because they were afraid that what they had done would be done to them - a fear which ultimately is still echoed by loyalists, despite all assurances that the majority of people just want to be free and move the hell on.

But let's make this clear - you're english, you don't get a say.
I'm eligible for citizenship in either of your shit-tier countries, and as long as my people in America are having our asses kissed for tourism, guns, and diplomatic intervention by both sides, I think we have a right to speak our minds on a place where we have relatives and loved ones. Got it? good.

[arcticwolf]

Many of these Scotch-Irish immigrated to America. They have an estimated 27 million descendants there.

Hold on there cowboy, let's do the math.

So 100000 came after 1607, I'm assuming not on one ship, right?

so it took some time? they have multiplied over 4 centuries into 1.8 mil today in NI.

Now they started immigrating to NA at some point, and there they multiplied into 27 mil today.

Did I get that right?

Ok, so how the fuck does that make any sense? LOL

[Longbowman]

thanks for the history lesson, I'd never heard of the pale. I've also never heard of the plantation, or of the battle of the boyne, and I'm also not trying to dumb down and explanation of the plantation of ulster or explain how the english aristocrats who settled it had to bring in scots to settle because they were afraid that what they had done would be done to them - a fear which ultimately is still echoed by loyalists, despite all assurances that the majority of people just want to be free and move the hell on.

But let's make this clear - you're english, you don't get a say.
I'm eligible for citizenship in either of your shit-tier countries, and as long as my people in America are having our asses kissed for tourism, guns, and diplomatic intervention by both sides, I think we have a right to speak our minds on a place where we have relatives and loved ones. Got it? good.

I'm British*. I do get a say, actually (with regards to Northern Ireland, of course).

You are not eligible for citizenship here unless you have a British parent or an Irish grandparent.

I'm not kicking your arse for anything. I am in fact a US citizen myself (my father is American). Don't put words in my mouth. But, you still don't get a say. You're entitled to an ill-informed opinion, though.

Your Anglophobia would be more honest if you expressed it in any other language but English. What happened 400 years ago has no impact on the current population of Ulster vis-a-vis guilt and status as murderers, otherwise I'd kindly ask you and all your people to get out of the Red Man's land, hypocrite. The most recent spree of violence comes from our friends the IRA.

[Celxon]

Hold on there cowboy, let's do the math.

So 100000 came after 1607, I'm assuming not on one ship, right?

so it took some time? they have multiplied over 4 centuries into 1.8 mil today in NI.

Now they started immigrating to NA at some point, and there they multiplied into 27 mil today.

Did I get that right?

Ok, so how the fuck does that make any sense? LOL

They mixed with millions of people of other ethnicities. It's almost impossible to find pure Scots-Irish Americans.

[Celxon]

Your Anglophobia would be more honest if you expressed it in any other language but English.

He'll feel better after he drinks some Guinness, watches "Braveheart", reads a chapter from "Le Morte d'Arthur", and sings along with some Irish rebel songs on You Tube.

"Come out ye Black and Tans. Come out and fight me like a man."

[Incal]

So... they aren't really Irish?

There are "real" Irish and of course they are catholic.

BTW Northern Ireland is the most conservative place in the whole UK, and a tip to the preservationists here: There are no immigrants in NI. The whole week I was there I just saw one black guy, one woman in hijab and some paki/indian. That's all.

[Stanley]

For anyone who might know: How much Irish ancestry do modern-day Ulster-Scots have, on average?

I would guess that religion would have been a pretty significant social barrier to intermarriage, but how much did it occur historically? Are most Northern Irish "protestants" rather pure in their Ulster-Scots heritage? Or..?

[Longbowman]

He'll feel better after he drinks some Guinness, watches "Braveheart", reads a chapter from "Le Morte d'Arthur", and sings along with some Irish rebel songs on You Tube.

"Come out ye Black and Tans. Come out and fight me like a man."

Except he's more likely to drink some Coors, watch 'The Patriot,' read a chapter of the Great Gatsby and sing along to 'my country 'tis of thee' :rolleyes:

I hate that song. The cowards were the terrorists: the loyalists were not the ones hiding behind civilians.

Also how is 'l'morte d'Arthur' Irish?

[Grace O'Malley]

Just talking in general here but the average Irish person doesn't really care if Northern Ireland stays with Britain. It doesn't matter to most people because whether you are Irish or Northern Irish there is still no border because you can move back and forth. Northern Irish people can choose to have an Irish passport and a British passport. Let's move on. I would say all Irish people have family that live in Britain and have British relatives. The past cannot be changed. As someone from an Irish family that have moved to Australia British and Irish people are so similar and have so much in common more than anyone else. The Northern Irish have more hangups about this than the Republic of Ireland. Just move out of Britain and Ireland and whether you are Northern Irish or from the Republic of Ireland everyone considers you Irish.

[morski]

Just talking in general here but the average Irish person doesn't really care if Northern Ireland stays with Britain. It doesn't matter to most people because whether you are Irish or Northern Irish there is still no border because you can move back and forth. Northern Irish people can choose to have an Irish passport and a British passport. Let's move on. I would say all Irish people have family that live in Britain and have British relatives. The past cannot be changed. As someone from an Irish family that have moved to Australia British and Irish people are so similar and have so much in common more than anyone else. The Northern Irish have more hangups about this than the Republic of Ireland. Just move out of Britain and Ireland and whether you are Northern Irish or from the Republic of Ireland everyone considers you Irish.

True, the expats in Sofia drink in the same pubs and political and religious discussions are taboo.

[Jackson]

I'm glad she's Protestant and of Anglo-Saxon origins. I want my line to remain Germanic.

But we're all just human right? Ha...

London hasn't really changed you then. :P

[Graham]

Let's move on.

We say this all the time here. Doesn't work. We still have these Pro-Ira bombing types, & the pro-British Loyalist idiots.

The comments I have heard over time. It's backwards as fuck.

[Longbowman]

We say this all the time here. Doesn't work. We still have these Pro-Ira bombing types, & the pro-British Loyalist idiots.

The comments I have heard over time. It's backwards as fuck.

Loyalists aren't idiots. Some loyalists are idiots, of course, but being a loyalist doesn't make you an idiot. It makes you loyal :)

[Grace O'Malley]

We say this all the time here. Doesn't work. We still have these Pro-Ira bombing types, & the pro-British Loyalist idiots.

The comments I have heard over time. It's backwards as fuck.

The vast majority of people have moved on. These Pro-IRA bombing types don't have any backing and people are really over this. The Good Friday Agreement is the only way forward. There is really nothing that anyone can do now to change the status quo. Some of these antisocial types are just a flash in the pan and as time moves on you will see less of this. The people in the Irish Republic have no interest in a United Ireland and are quite happy to leave things as they are.

[Grace O'Malley]

Anyway Graham it should be interesting to see what Scotland does in the future. I can't see Scotland ever leaving Britain myself. Britain is really not what it once was and personally I think Britain and Ireland should stick together and look out for their own best interests in Europe. Come on lets all be friends? Afterall why do so much Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh marry each other?

[Black Wolf]

In reality the majority of North Irish Protestants are of mixed Scottish and English origins. Most of their ancestors arrived probably as settlers during the Plantation times. Many also have a small number of Huguenot and native Irish ancestors who converted to the Protestant sects.

[Graham]

Anyway Graham it should be interesting to see what Scotland does in the future. I can't see Scotland ever leaving Britain myself. Britain is really not what it once was and personally I think Britain and Ireland should stick together and look out for their own best interests in Europe. Come on lets all be friends? Afterall why do so much Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh marry each other?
My Scottish Grandad married my English nana, My Scottish gran married my English Granddad. But why should culture be bound to greedy London Globalist Politicians?

Being friends doesn't mean you have to be stuck together politically. Get rid of the Monarchy, the un-elected second tier(House of Lords) ,and enhance our devolution( Historically less than an American State). Then I'll understand. Make Britain more Democratic. Until then, I'll remain anti-Westminster.

[Grace O'Malley]

Anyway I just love this clip from Dylan Moran who is an Irishman married to a Scotswoman. This ties in the Australians, Irish and English. We are all just love to hate each other :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_43-4xjnVA

[Graham]

Dylan Moran lives in Merchiston, Edinburgh & is friends with some of my Friends family. :P Funny guy.

[Loki]

Hold on there cowboy, let's do the math.

So 100000 came after 1607, I'm assuming not on one ship, right?

so it took some time? they have multiplied over 4 centuries into 1.8 mil today in NI.

Now they started immigrating to NA at some point, and there they multiplied into 27 mil today.

Did I get that right?

Ok, so how the fuck does that make any sense? LOL

It makes a lot of sense. Less Dutch than that went to South Africa, and now Afrikaners number in millions.

People had lots of children back then. My grandfather was one of 13 children.

[Loki]

Get rid of the Monarchy, the un-elected second tier(House of Lords) ,and enhance our devolution( Historically less than an American State). Then I'll understand. Make Britain more Democratic. Until then, I'll remain anti-Westminster.

Totally agree.

[Grace O'Malley]

In reality the majority of North Irish Protestants are of mixed Scottish and English origins. Most of their ancestors arrived probably as settlers during the Plantation times. Many also have a small number of Huguenot and native Irish ancestors who converted to the Protestant sects.

They have been there now for over 400 years. Most Protestants have some Irish blood and most Catholics have some Scottish blood. Nationalists like Gerry Adams and Bobby Sands have genealogy going back to Planter stock. People in the border countries of the Republic like Donegal and Monaghan etc have a lot of Scottish blood and these are Catholics. Isn't it a bit ridiculous? Are Northern Irish that different than people in the Republic? Let's all get some Polish or Indian blood in us to even things out. Let's be honest here as people are just hating on their own coutrymen? Anyone who says any different is just in denial.

[Longbowman]

Totally agree.

The Monarchy is part of who we are! And the House might not be directly elected, but its members are selected by the Lower House, so. It works well as a technically powerless advisory board. As the Monarchy has no actual power, opposition to it should be viewed as purely cultural and anti-tourism.

[Black Wolf]

Anyway Graham it should be interesting to see what Scotland does in the future. I can't see Scotland ever leaving Britain myself. Britain is really not what it once was and personally I think Britain and Ireland should stick together and look out for their own best interests in Europe. Come on lets all be friends? Afterall why do so much Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh marry each other?

My grandfather was born in Canada but his ancestors all came from different parts of Ireland and Britain before they migrated here. He married my grandmother during WWII. She was a North Irish Protestant girl working in London England at the time.

They marry each other because in the end they are all Islanders of some type I suppose lol.

[Loki]

The Monarchy is part of who we are! And the House might not be directly elected, but its members are selected by the Lower House, so. It works well as a technically powerless advisory board. As the Monarchy has no actual power, opposition to it should be viewed as purely cultural and anti-tourism.

Yes, I guess you are right.

I like the current bunch. Charles, William and Harry.

[Grace O'Malley]

:rolleyes:
Dylan Moran lives in Merchiston, Edinburgh & is friends with some of my Friends family. :P Funny guy.

He is one of my favourite comedians. I just love him. He should come to Australia more often instead of trying to appeal to those Yanks. :) He is writing a comedy series for Americans at the moment :rolleyes: Since when do they understand British and Irish humour?? Come to Australia Dylan.

[Black Wolf]

They have been there now for over 400 years. Most Protestants have some Irish blood and most Catholics have some Scottish blood. Nationalist like Gerry Adams and Bobby Sands have genealogy going bacy to Planter stock. People in the border countries of the Republic like Donegal and Monaghan etc have a lot of Scottish blood and these are Catholics. Isn't it a bit ridiculous? Are Northern Irish that different than people in the Republic? Let's all get some Polish or Indian blood in us to even things out. Let's be honest here as people are just hating on their own coutrymen? Anyone who says any different is just in denial.

Aye lass I do agree with you on this. Genetically on the whole the North Irish Protestants and the Irish of the Republic are pretty similar. The main difference between them is religion and culture to a degree as we all know. Even when it comes to culture though the North Irish Protestants still tend to identify as Irish. I mentioned this already a few posts ago. All of my North Irish Protestant relatives and ancestors still identified as being Irish. I mean what else could they be after being there for hundreds of years?

[Grace O'Malley]

Aye lass I do agree with you on this. Genetically on the whole the North Irish Protestants and the Irish of the Republic are pretty similar. The main difference between them is religion and culture to a degree as we all know. Even when it comes to culture though the North Irish Protestants still tend to identify as Irish. I mentioned this already a few posts ago. All of my North Irish Protestant relatives and ancestors still identified as being Irish. I mean what else could they be after being there for hundreds of years?

We all just need a good Muslim invasion to make us all come to our senses :). Just give the Scottish whisky to the Protestants and the Irish whiskey to the Catholics and we'll all forget our differences :) Let us Australians and Canadians show our wayward ancestors the way.

[Graham]

The Northern Irish come out mostly like the Scots, Cumbrians & Northumbrians Gentically. But mainly West Scotland.

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/7149/c5z.png

[Graham]

Going through the surnames. Trying to pick out names that I know are Scottish.

Top 20 Surnames -- Northern Ireland


Wilson (0.75) Scottish
Campbell (0.75) Scottish
Kelly (0.74) Irish
Johnston (0.69) Scottish
Moore (0.62) Irish
Thompson (0.61) Scottish
Smyth (0.60) ??
Brown (0.59) Scottish
O’Neill (0.57) Irish
Doherty (0.54) Irish
Stewart (0.54) Scottish
Quinn (0.51) Irish
Robinson (0.50) English, Cumbrian
Murphy (0.49) Irish
Graham (0.48) Scottish
Martin (0.45) English, Scottish
McLaughlin (0.45) Irish
Hamilton (0.44) Scottish
Murray (0.43) Scottish
Hughes (0.41) Irish

[Grace O'Malley]

My Scottish Grandad married my English nana, My Scottish gran married my English Granddad. But why should culture be bound to greedy London Globalist Politicians?

Being friends doesn't mean you have to be stuck together politically. Get rid of the Monarchy, the un-elected second tier(House of Lords) ,and enhance our devolution( Historically less than an American State). Then I'll understand. Make Britain more Democratic. Until then, I'll remain anti-Westminster.

Scotland could be a successful country on its own. They are a very intelligent and amazing people. Is it the best thing for them though? What would be achieved by independence for Scotland?

[Black Wolf]

We all just need a good Muslim invasion to make us all come to our senses :). Just give the Scottish whisky to the Protestants and the Irish whiskey to the Catholics and we'll all forget our differences :) Let us Australians and Canadians show our wayward ancestors the way.

Well there ya go. ;)

[Black Wolf]

The Northern Irish come out mostly like the Scots, Cumbrians & Northumbrians Gentically. But mainly West Scotland.

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/7149/c5z.png

Yup on the Eurogenes K15 calculator at GEDmatch my great uncle who is 100% North Irish Protestant born and raised gets West Scottish as his closest population in the Oracle.

[Graham]

Scotland could be a successful country on its own. They are a very intelligent and amazing people. Is it the best thing for them though? What would be achieved by independence for Scotland?

For myself.

To bring democracy closer to home. To not hold onto Nuclear bombs. To not take part in Silly wars. To not have another Maggie Thatcher hurt is. To be brave & not be called a subsidy junkie all the time. To fail & thrive on our own terms.

[Black Wolf]

Going through the surnames. Trying to pick out names that I know are Scottish.

Top 20 Surnames -- Northern Ireland


Wilson (0.75) Scottish
Campbell (0.75) Scottish
Kelly (0.74) Irish
Johnston (0.69) Scottish
Moore (0.62) Irish
Thompson (0.61) Scottish
Smyth (0.60) ??
Brown (0.59) Scottish
O’Neill (0.57) Irish
Doherty (0.54) Irish
Stewart (0.54) Scottish
Quinn (0.51) Irish
Robinson (0.50) English, Cumbrian
Murphy (0.49) Irish
Graham (0.48) Scottish
Martin (0.45) English, Scottish
McLaughlin (0.45) Irish
Hamilton (0.44) Scottish
Murray (0.43) Scottish
Hughes (0.41) Irish


Interesting that the Wilson surname is at the top. It actually makes sense. I have two separate Wilson lines on my North Irish Protestant maternal grandmother's side.

[Graham]

Wilson comes from the areas that you have typically seen as migrating from Lowland Scotland, into Cumbria/Cumberland & Northern Ireland. :) Also tenth most common surname in the USA.

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/7185/7ip5.jpg

[Black Wolf]

Wilson comes from the areas that you have typically seen as migrating from Lowland Scotland, into Cumbria/Cumberland & Northern Ireland. :) Also tenth most common surname in the USA.

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/7185/7ip5.jpg

Yup that makes sense. From the list you gave above I also have an O'Neill line on my maternal grandfather's side.

[Graham]

O'Neil is Northern Ireland. It has it's History there in the Red Hand.

[Longbowman]

For myself.

To bring democracy closer to home. To not hold onto Nuclear bombs. To not take part in Silly wars. To not have another Maggie Thatcher hurt is. To be brave & not be called a subsidy junkie all the time. To fail & thrive on our own terms.

I'm sorry but these are horrendously trite reasons to rip a country apart. The only substantive complaint here that would change if you were independent is the bomb thing, and being a passive nuclear power isn't a bad thing, and it certainly isn't worth seceding. We haven't even ever detonated one in anger, for Pete's sake. Westminster might be a hundred miles away, but in LA the 'seat of democracy' is 3,000 miles away. Sometimes countries are big. What next, the Shetlands secede from you because 'democracy still isn't close enough?' And do you really think you won't be engaging in NATO's wars? Or that all the wars fought in the past 30 years - Falklands, Sierra Leone, Yugoslavia - have been silly? Your own terms are well met as part of the UK - Brown and Blair were both Scottish and the Scottish overrepresentation and West Lothian question mean Scotland has more power than England, proportionately. If anyone's seceding for this, it should be the rest of the UK-not you. Thankfully polls suggest the referendum will fail.

[Grace O'Malley]

For myself.

To bring democracy closer to home. To not hold onto Nuclear bombs. To not take part in Silly wars. To not have another Maggie Thatcher hurt is. To be brave & not be called a subsidy junkie all the time. To fail & thrive on our own terms.

I agree with all of the above. From an Irish perspective I would rather Ireland be an independent country and make all the mistakes they are making than being part of the UK. They will learn. I think the British Isles should have all independent part They should all work in conjunction with each other like a Council of the Isles but be independent. I think all the Irish, Scottish and Northern English hate Maggie Thatcher. There is a pride in being independent and I think the Scottish people would gain a lot from this. If Scotland becomes independent they would have many European countries backing them. I just can't see the majority of Scottish voting for independence though.

[Graham]

I'm sorry but these are horrendously trite reasons to rip a country apart. The only substantive complaint here that would change if you were independent is the bomb thing, and being a passive nuclear power isn't a bad thing, and it certainly isn't worth seceding. We haven't even ever detonated one in anger, for Pete's sake. Westminster might be a hundred miles away, but in LA the 'seat of democracy' is 3,000 miles away. Sometimes countries are big. What next, the Shetlands secede from you because 'democracy still isn't close enough?' And do you really think you won't be engaging in NATO's wars? Or that all the wars fought in the past 30 years - Falklands, Sierra Leone, Yugoslavia - have been silly? Your own terms are well met as part of the UK - Brown and Blair were both Scottish and the Scottish overrepresentation and West Lothian question mean Scotland has more power than England, proportionately. If anyone's seceding for this, it should be the rest of the UK-not you. Thankfully polls suggest the referendum will fail.

Fair enough. :)

[Longbowman]

I agree with all of the above. From an Irish perspective I would rather Ireland be an independent country and make all the mistakes they are making than being part of the UK. They will learn. I think the British Isles should have all independent part They shoudl all work in conjunction with each other like a Council of the Isles but be independent. I think all the Irish, Scottish and Northern English hate Maggie Thatcher. There is a pride in being independent and I think the Scottish people would gain a lot from this. If Scotland becomes independent they would have many European countries backing them. I just can't see the majority of Scottish voting for independence though.

Ireland is independent. The UK doesn't hold people to ransom. The part that isn't independent of the UK doesn't want to be. Why force it? If Scotland became independent it would a small peripheral country of no real importance, especially once the North Sea Oil runs out, and they won't even be able to sell that cheaply enough to fuel their economy - living wages in Scotland are far higher than in Saudi Arabia, but the oil market is international. Quite apart from that, the cultural difference between Northern England and Southern Scotland is small enough to be called non-existant; we're all part of the same British cultural continuum. Scotland is already free. It's not dependant on anyone - it's a functioning part of the United Kingdom.

[Graham]

Anyway Ireland & the North. The O'Neils.

http://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps/map1450.gifhttp://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps/map1300.gif

[Baluarte]

I support the Irish reunification due to Catholic solidarity and Scottish independence due to pragmatic reasons.

Set them free :D

[Graham]

More maps

http://imageshack.us/a/img35/5879/55it.jpg
http://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps/mapcromw.gif

[Grace O'Malley]

Ireland is independent. The UK doesn't hold people to ransom. The part that isn't independent of the UK doesn't want to be. Why force it? If Scotland became independent it would a small peripheral country of no real importance, especially once the North Sea Oil runs out, and they won't even be able to sell that cheaply enough to fuel their economy - living wages in Scotland are far higher than in Saudi Arabia, but the oil market is international. Quite apart from that, the cultural difference between Northern England and Southern Scotland is small enough to be called non-existant; we're all part of the same British cultural continuum. Scotland is already free. It's not dependant on anyone - it's a functioning part of the United Kingdom.

I agree. I'm a realist and personally I don't see any need for Scotland to become independent because Scotland is really already indepenendent. I don't think Scotland will vote to become independent. The truth be told I don't know whether it will make any difference anyway.

[Graham]

Dál Riata (also Dalriada or Dalriata) was a Gaelic overkingdom on the western coast of Scotland (then Pict-land) and part of Ulster. In the late 6th and early 7th century it encompassed roughly what is now Argyll and Bute and Lochaber in Scotland and also County Antrim in Northern Ireland.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Dalriada.jpg
The people of the Kingdom of Dál Riata spoke a Q-Celtic Goidelic language. They lived in Argyll on the West Coast of what is now Scotland from around AD 400.

The Gaels of Dál Riata are often called ‘the Scots’ as the Romans named the Q-Celtic speaking peoples of Ireland and Argyll ‘the Scotti’ which probably meant ‘pirates’. The Scotti attacked Roman shipping off the west coast.

Only twelve miles of sea separates the Mull of Kintyre from Antrim. The Gaels of Dál Riata and Antrim traded across the sea routes, intermarried and sometimes fought.

The founding myth of Scotland tells of an Irish King, Fergus Mor, settling Scots from Ireland in Argyll. The English historian Bede wrote that the Irish Scots under Reuda took lands from the Picts. These origin tales influenced later historians but there is no evidence on the ground for an Irish invasion of Argyll.

The Gaels of Dál Riata and Ireland lived in different types of house; they wore different styles of brooch and dress pin; they carved different stone monuments. The archaeological evidence does not support the origin tales. It is now thought that the Gaels of Argyll, the Dál Riatans, were a native population who shared a common language with the peoples of Ireland a few miles over the sea. The Gaels of Dál Riata were probably the descendants of the Bronze Age cairn builders of Kilmartin Glen.

The Dál Riata strongholds at Dunadd, Dunaverty, Dunollie and Tarbert were important places of power and defence. A ‘dun’ was a hill fort. Kings were inaugurated at sacred places like Dunadd, an impressive fortress of the 7th and 8th centuries. A footprint carved into the rock at Dunadd is thought to have been used during the King-making ceremonies.

Finds at Dunadd, such as imported glass and pottery, show that European trade flourished along the western seaboard. The Christian monks of Iona needed a source of vellum (calf hides) to make their books. The Book of Kells alone is made of hundreds of calf skins.

Most Dál Riatan kings came from two leading groups; the Cenél Loairn and the Cenél nGabráin. The King Áedán mac Gabráin, who ruled Dál Riata c AD 574–608, would have been well known to Columba and the monks on Iona. In AD 719 the two opposing groups of Dál Riatans fought a sea battle. There may have been up to a hundred wooden boats and curraghs (skin boats) on each side, filled with warriors armed with bows and arrows. The Dál Riatans may have fought off Viking raiders from AD 794.

The Dál Riatans were the ancestors of some of Scotland’s kings. Mac Bethad mac Findlaích, better known as Macbeth, King of the Alba, was descended from the Cenél Loairn of Dál Riata.

http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/britonsgaelsvikings/dalriata/index.asp

[Longbowman]

More maps
http://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps/mapcromw.gif

What's your source for this? It seems seriously unreliable. How did the Catholics bounce back from that?

[Graham]

http://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps.htm
Not sure, how valid the map is.

But if they did bounce back it could have been from their loyalty to the Stewart Crown?

Cromwell was known for his Penal Laws, & for confiscating the best land off the Irish. Ironically still seen as a bit of Hero in England historically.

[Longbowman]

http://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps.htm
Not sure, how valid the map is.

But if they did bounce back it could have been from their loyalty to the Stewart Crown?

Cromwell was known for his Penal Laws, & for confiscating the best land off the Irish. Ironically still seen as a bit of Hero in England historically.

A hero by Republicans. I personally am not a fan. In fact I consider him the worst dictator in English history.

No, I don't think so. The Stewarts only lasted til 1714. The map you gave was from 1703. I simply don't think it's valid.

[Graham]

Well Britain pretty much owned Ireland then.

And it is valid, yes. Here is the link that explains it. Sorry. :)

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/media/155798/Demographic-map-demonstrating-the-shift-of-land-ownership-in-Ireland

Ireland, history of: land ownership shift in Ireland from Catholic to Protestant between 1641 and 1703

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_lkYtQzKJ0

[Grace O'Malley]

http://www.ulsterheritage.com/maps.htm
Not sure, how valid the map is.

But if they did bounce back it could have been from their loyalty to the Stewart Crown?

Cromwell was known for his Penal Laws, & for confiscating the best land off the Irish. Ironically still seen as a bit of Hero in England historically.

Cromwell I spit on his name. English people need to acknowledge the evil this man did in Ireland. Elvis Costello did a great song tying in the Northern Irish situation with what happened in the past in Ireland with Oliver's Army. Also with the ordinary Englishmen and how the poor are always just cannon fodder.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1S4DJtLOk

[Graham]

Btw talking of Monarchy. At work today I found a coin from 1914. It has George V on the back. Found it interesting.

We find all sort of coins, & have old Australian, Canadian coins, with the queens head. Look very much like British coins. :P

Also my Grandad served the Queen Tea, as the head waiter of either the Caledonian or North British/Balmoral Hotel, can't remember.

[Smaug]

Anyway Graham it should be interesting to see what Scotland does in the future. I can't see Scotland ever leaving Britain myself. Britain is really not what it once was and personally I think Britain and Ireland should stick together and look out for their own best interests in Europe. Come on lets all be friends? Afterall why do so much Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh marry each other?

Welsh men like Irish woman ;)

[Loki]

Dál Riata (also Dalriada or Dalriata) was a Gaelic overkingdom on the western coast of Scotland (then Pict-land) and part of Ulster. In the late 6th and early 7th century it encompassed roughly what is now Argyll and Bute and Lochaber in Scotland and also County Antrim in Northern Ireland.


The Gaels from Northern Ireland were pretty much supplanted by Lowland Scots (of Anglo-Saxon origins).

[Graham]

The Gaels from Northern Ireland were pretty much supplanted by Lowland Scots (of Anglo-Saxon origins).

I would dispute the Saxon part. They only stayed in South England. We got the Angles though. :P Though I'd gather from my own Y-DNA(common name from, area that went across), they have pre-Scando ancestry also.

[Graham]

‘Seven Ill Years’
Written by Dr Jonathan Bardon BBC

In the 6th of February 1685, King James II was crowned the first Catholic monarch in London for more than a century.

The alarmed Protestant nobility of England invited William, Prince of Orange, to be their King and in November 1688 he landed in the south of England.

British settlers in Ulster did not hesitate to declare for King William. James had ruled that Protestants must be cleared out of the Irish army and the country’s administration.

Now, from all over central and western Ulster, fearful Protestants seeking a safe refuge crowded into the walled city of Londonderry.

On the 7th of December 1688 a force of 1,200 Catholic soldiers in the service of Alexander MacDonnell, Lord Antrim, advanced on the city.

Scots faced Scots across the Foyle. The great majority taking refuge in Derry were Scots or descendants of Scots – as were Lord Antrim’s men; known as ‘Redshanks’ (so called from the deerhide leggings which they wore), they were Hebridean Scots and their descendants from the Glens of Antrim.

As the Redshanks prepared to cross the river, thirteen apprentice boys (so called because they were apprenticed to guilds in the city) closed the gates against them.

The siege of Derry had begun.

King James, forced out of England to France, arrived in Ireland with a French army in March 1689. Soon all of Ireland had fallen to him, save the island town of Enniskillen and the walled city of Derry. When on the 18th of April James advanced towards Derry’s walls and offered terms, he was greeted with cries of ‘No surrender!’

For 105 days some 37,000 thousand Protestants held out. The shared experience of bombardment and privation eroded differences between Scots and English. On the Sabbath the only place of worship within the walls, St Columb’s Cathedral, was occupied by both – members of the Church of Ireland in the morning and the Scots Presbyterians afterwards.

Relief came with the breaking of the French boom across the Foyle on the 28th of July.

The long resistance of Derry and Enniskillen gave King William valuable time to send the Duke of Schomberg over from Holland to clear the ‘Jacobites’ – the supporters of King James – from most of Ulster.

Then on the 14th of June 1690 William of Orange stepped ashore at Carrickfergus. He had with him the largest army yet seen in Ireland, 36,000 men.

This was a professional, multinational force of Dutch, Danes, French Huguenots, English and Scots. Ulster Protestants joined William mainly as skirmishers, the most formidable being the ‘Inniskillingers’, the majority of them descendants of Borderers from Fermanagh, described by the army chaplain George Story as being – half-naked with sabre and pistols hanging from their belts…like a Horde of Tartars.

Then followed King William’s triumph at the Boyne on the 1st of July and the flight of King James back to France.

But it took more than another year to bring Jacobite resistance to an end: the Williamites won their greatest victory at Aughrim in east Galway on 12th of July 1691 and Limerick did not surrender until the 3rd of October that year.

Once again Catholics lost many of their lands and the British colony in Ulster quickly recovered. Landowners in the north looked for fresh recruits from across the sea to bring their estates into full production. In the 1690s Scots were to the fore, almost certainly in greater numbers than during any previous decade of the seventeenth century.

In 1693 Hekla in Iceland erupted with terrible force, spewing huge quantities of volcanic dust into the stratosphere. At the same time, on the other side of the world, the volcanoes of Serua and Aboina erupted in the Dutch East Indies, adding to the atmospheric haze filtering out the sun.

The outcome was what climatologists call the Little Ice Age. Ruined harvests resulted in a terrible famine in Scandinavia – Finland lost a third of its population. In Scotland the harvest failed in 1693 and in every following year to the end of the century. The Scots called these the ‘seven ill years’.

Some parts suffered more than during the Black Death in the fourteenth century. The starving tried to survive by eating nettles and grass and then, fever-ridden, poured into the towns, dying there in thousands.

Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun (just outside Edinburgh) reckoned that one in five died from hunger, and others reported that a third of the people starved to death. It seems likely that the seven ill years killed at least a tenth of Scotland’s population as a whole. Patrick Walker, an itinerant pedlar, wrote:

I have seen, when meal was all sold in the markets, women clapping their hands, and tearing the clothes off their heads, crying, ‘How shall we go home and see our children die in hunger?’

A Lowlander in the Highlands reported:

Some die by the wayside, some drop down in the streets, the poor sucking babs are starving for want of milk, which the empty breasts of their mothers cannot furnish them, everyone may see death in the face of the poor that abound everywhere.

Ireland escaped the worst effects of this climatic downturn – and many survivors of the Scottish famine now headed for (across) the narrow sea to begin a new life in Ulster.

[Baluarte]

^^ Sad turn of events indeed

[Celxon]

Except he's more likely to drink some Coors, watch 'The Patriot,' read a chapter of the Great Gatsby and sing along to 'my country 'tis of thee' :rolleyes:

I hate that song. The cowards were the terrorists: the loyalists were not the ones hiding behind civilians.

Also how is 'l'morte d'Arthur' Irish?

It's not Irish. Neither is "Braveheart". It's part of a "Celtic", anti-"Saxon" theme, not to be taken seriously. That said, the Americans and the Irish did the right thing. We both made the British leave us alone and mind their own business, control freaks that they were. Brave and patriotic Americans kicked their Redcoat royal rears at Cowpens and Kings Mountain (without help from France). We destroyed them at the Battle of New Orleans. As for "God Save The Queen", I prefer the American lyrics, but the tune is quite good.

[LightHouse89]

The Northern Irish are primarily descendants of Lowland Scots, hence Anglo-Saxon (Lowland Scots are of Anglo-Saxon origins). They are Presbyterian. They came to settle in Ulster after 1607.

they also murdered alot of people and stole their land :) to be indentured servants in America. The British are a cut throat people.

[Longbowman]

It's not Irish. Neither is "Braveheart". It's part of a "Celtic", anti-"Saxon" theme, not to be taken seriously. That said, the Americans and the Irish did the right thing. We both made the British leave us alone and mind their own business, control freaks that they were. Brave and patriotic Americans kicked their Redcoat royal rears at Cowpens and Kings Mountain (without help from France). We destroyed them at the Battle of New Orleans. As for "God Save The Queen", I prefer the American lyrics, but the tune is quite good.

Considering the Lowland Scots aren't anymore Celtic than people from Somerset, I'm not 100% sure on that, but it's certainly an Anglophobic, admittedly amusing piece of completely historically inaccurate rubbish.

American lyrics? Wasn't it a Brit that penned the Star-Spangled Banner?

You may have won New Orleans, but as I recall you lost that war, so there's that.

But whilst I'm very happy 'you' kicked 'us' out, and good for you, this discussion is about Northern Ireland, which would prefer that we kept our nose in its business.

[Longbowman]

they also murdered alot of people and stole their land :) to be indentured servants in America. The British are a cut throat people.

I hope that's a compliment! You claim to be American and Germanic, two groups hardly known for their fluffiness.

[LightHouse89]

It's not Irish. Neither is "Braveheart". It's part of a "Celtic", anti-"Saxon" theme, not to be taken seriously. That said, the Americans and the Irish did the right thing. We both made the British leave us alone and mind their own business, control freaks that they were. Brave and patriotic Americans kicked their Redcoat royal rears at Cowpens and Kings Mountain (without help from France). We destroyed them at the Battle of New Orleans. As for "God Save The Queen", I prefer the American lyrics, but the tune is quite good.

The British to me are a bit faggy. I noticed many of them live in my state and teach at the local colleges and have the strangest views that I could never agree to. The modern Irish are weak and don't care about Nationalism anymore. Infact they do not consider 'irish' Americans to be Irish either so there isn't much love for them there. Im proud to be an Anglo-American though. A shame the irish are letting go of their roots but they want to be English. The French came in towards the end of the war and set up a big stupid statute that I think should be taken down as it is drawing in the worlds 'poor' who vote democrat when they get here. Proud Scotch Irish here though. We made our own country here without the help of anyone. We as Americans must understand that and if we don't then we should hand America over to the immigrants who shit on our values and traditions. I refuse to watch America be flushed down the toilet. W must disassemble the statute of Liberty and send it back to France to be set up in Europe.

[LightHouse89]

I hope that's a compliment! You claim to be American and Germanic, two groups hardly known for their fluffiness.

American isn't necessarily 'Germanic' as demographics are increasingly changing. The British wee never friendly towards their neighbors and demanded respect in return for it this is why I dislike the English [in history]. I think the Germans had a love hate relation with the rest of Europe in history. Social pressure had much to do with that as Germany is land locked like Serbia and wants to prove themselves to the world they are powerful. England was never threatened by Ireland in the days of the development of the British Union so I find the English to be at fault for that. I think they could have had an Empire without having to invade Ireland. Ireland did not have much to offer England back then or even today so I don't understand why they have to have a 'Northern Ireland' and a Irish Republic.

[Longbowman]

The British to me are a bit faggy. I noticed many of them live in my state and teach at the local colleges and have the strangest views that I could never agree to. The modern Irish are weak and don't care about Nationalism anymore. Infact they do not consider 'irish' Americans to be Irish either so there isn't much love for them there. Im proud to be an Anglo-American though. A shame the irish are letting go of their roots but they want to be English. The French came in towards the end of the war and set up a big stupid statute that I think should be taken down as it is drawing in the worlds 'poor' who vote democrat when they get here. Proud Scotch Irish here though. We made our own country here without the help of anyone. We as Americans must understand that and if we don't then we should hand America over to the immigrants who shit on our values and traditions. I refuse to watch America be flushed down the toilet. W must disassemble the statute of Liberty and send it back to France to be set up in Europe.

Down with the statue of liberty, that's a new one. But seriously, bro. I'm sorry we're too faggy for your liking, even though I don't know what that means - we're addictive and full of nicotine? Anyway I will have a word with the Queen when next we meet for crumpets and we shall restore things to the way they were in the Good Old Days. Huzzah!

[LightHouse89]

If it weren't for Ireland there wouldn't be a Scotti land.

[Longbowman]

American isn't necessarily 'Germanic' as demographics are increasingly changing. The British wee never friendly towards their neighbors and demanded respect in return for it this is why I dislike the English . I think the Germans had a love hate relation with the rest of Europe in history. Social pressure had much to do with that as Germany is land locked like Serbia and wants to prove themselves to the world they are powerful. England was never threatened by Ireland in the days of the development of the British Union so I find the English to be at fault for that. I think they could have had an Empire without having to invade Ireland. Ireland did not have much to offer England back then or even today so I don't understand why they have to have a 'Northern Ireland' and a Irish Republic.

No, you, personally. On your information. Germany isn't landlocked, it has coast on the North and Baltic sea.

The English were never friendly to their neighbours, sure. But who were - the [I]Germans? And that babble about England and Ireland? Seriously? Your grasp of history reads like you looked at a map and went, 'Germany, that sounds boss. Norway? Norgay, lol. That's my least favourite country.' The thing you should focus on is selfdetermination, not how much you like a country in history.

[LightHouse89]

Down with the statue of liberty, that's a new one. But seriously, bro. I'm sorry we're too faggy for your liking, even though I don't know what that means - we're addictive and full of nicotine? Anyway I will have a word with the Queen when next we meet for crumpets and we shall restore things to the way they were in the Good Old Days. Huzzah!

The statute of liberty had its purpose back when European were coming here. Today its different. America is being flushed down the toilet by the left which monopolizes on their vote to gain power over the original masters of this country. I will say all immigrants irregardless of skin color bring this country down and don't care because they just come here to live not to be apart of what it stands for or the nations laws. I wonder if your good old days could come back. I don't know why Britain ever gave up their empire to begin with? The worst thing England ever created was the Beattles and the whole counter culture which spawned an generation of sinful, blissful hippies which have no inherited America and continue to bring down this country and its values. [The baby boomers if you know what I mean]

[LightHouse89]

No, you, personally. On your information. Germany isn't landlocked, it has coast on the North and Baltic sea.

The English were never friendly to their neighbours, sure. But who were - the Germans? And that babble about England and Ireland? Seriously? Your grasp of history reads like you looked at a map and went, 'Germany, that sounds boss. Norway? Norgay, lol. That's my least favourite country.' The thing you should focus on is selfdetermination, not how much you like a country in history.

I admire Bavaria for its culture. To me they were the best. I like Austria too. Prussia however was the true Power house of Germany and since its demise, with it all of Germany. I wish the Kaiser came back and restored Germany to its former greatness. I would support that. Modern Germany is a disgrace of what it was in the past. Nothing more than a giant bank. Many parts of Germany are landlocked and Germany was never praised for its navy either. They never saw much of an importance to have a Navy and to me that was their biggest short coming. Modern Britain on the other hand is not wonderful to me. Especially after seeing that last Olympic display of its 'diversity' shocked me. I can understand France for being the way they are [that part of my heritage I am ashamed of] but Britain? Really? Londonstan.

[Longbowman]

You are a marvellous troll. I love your writing style in particular.


[QUOTE]The statute of liberty had its purpose back when European were coming here.

It's a statue. Its purpose is to attract tourists. I've visited. The hand doesn't wave or anything.


Today its different. America is being flushed down the toilet by the left which monopolizes on their vote to gain power over the original masters of this country.

Monopolizes on their vote to what? Who are the original masters? Why can't the left 'gain power' if they're voted in?


I will say all immigrants irregardless of skin color bring this country down and don't care because they just come here to live not to be apart of what it stands for or the nations laws.

You had this whole 300 year period where you shipped in truckloads of dark skinned immigrants. Still, end immigration now, if you like.


I wonder if your good old days could come back. I don't know why Britain ever gave up their empire to begin with?

Great story. George VIII was drinking with Churchill and Churchill told him that if he could down 10 shots of Finlandia, he'd give up the Empire. George was like 'no way, bro, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it,' but Churchill was all, 'ha, that'll be the day, dude' but George totally downed the shots and Churchill was a man of his word, lol. Of course we kept like 16 colonies but they're usually small offshore banking centres.

We gave it up because we ran out of money.


The worst thing England ever created was the Beattles

Beatles*


and the whole counter culture which spawned an generation of sinful, blissful hippies which have no inherited America and continue to bring down this country and its values. [The baby boomers if you know what I mean]

You should use some of those lovely guns and carve out a new America for yourself.

[Celxon]

Going through the surnames. Trying to pick out names that I know are Scottish.

Top 20 Surnames -- Northern Ireland


Wilson (0.75) Scottish
Campbell (0.75) Scottish
Kelly (0.74) Irish
Johnston (0.69) Scottish
Moore (0.62) Irish
Thompson (0.61) Scottish
Smyth (0.60) ??
Brown (0.59) Scottish
O’Neill (0.57) Irish
Doherty (0.54) Irish
Stewart (0.54) Scottish
Quinn (0.51) Irish
Robinson (0.50) English, Cumbrian
Murphy (0.49) Irish
Graham (0.48) Scottish
Martin (0.45) English, Scottish
McLaughlin (0.45) Irish
Hamilton (0.44) Scottish
Murray (0.43) Scottish
Hughes (0.41) Irish


These names could be found in a late 1700s to early 1800s census of a small American frontier village. "Doherty" might be changed to "Daughtry" and "O'Neil" might be changed to "Neil", though. Also, "Hughes" sometimes is a Welsh surname while "Martin" often is a French surname. My ancestors, or their siblings and their descendants, have *all* of the above surnames in our/their family trees.

[LightHouse89]

100,000 Lowland Scots settled in Ulster after 1600. Their descendants are today's Northern Irish.

Before them were the Border Reivers, and then the British moved them to American colonies because they terrorized the locals by being cattle thieves, marauders and terrorists. Some of them were my ancestors too though as I have many surnames that come from the border region of England/Scotland. Today they are called Appalachians and they are anti government still to this day here hahaha. They hated the British government but hated the Irish too. Here they seemed to have kept their culture or in a way make it more American and it became American folk culture. When the British came to America and tried to March through Appalachia they were routed due to the ruthlessness of the Border Reiver's fury :p [they even scared away the native americans].

[LightHouse89]

[QUOTE=Longbowman;2216087]You are a marvellous troll. I love your writing style in particular.

[QUOTE=NormanDePoer;2216068]



''Monopolizes on their vote to what? Who are the original masters? Why can't the left 'gain power' if they're voted in?''

The original Masters are Northern Europeans. The ''left'' currently have gained power and many of them are known communists from the 1960s and 70s. If Democrats were true Democrats they would have never allowed homosexual marriage, illegal immigrants being granted citizenship [a reward for breaking the law! wow], they allow abortion and promote it in our schools [heath education class or sexual education class], the system also attacks people who openly disagree with homosexual marriage etc......Every thing Abnormal comes from liberal-leftist Democrats [in name only]. They use lets say gay marriage as a major issue in American [when In fact its not an issue the economy is the issue] , they use immigration as something that needs to be fixed [no it doesn't they should be keeping people out not letting them in during a recession]. Its fucking absurd to think the way an American liberal thinks.

''Beatles* ''

Opps someone is being a grammar Nazi. I don't care if I misspell their name they are lamebrains anyway.



''You had this whole 300 year period where you shipped in truckloads of dark skinned immigrants. Still, end immigration now, if you like.''

my point is that it is a symbol that symbolizes 'give us your sick and poor'. We don't need anyone's sick and poor. As for taking in darker races? This came about during the 1960s and 70s not before. In fact laws were enacted to keep non Northern Europeans out. They did away with these laws after world war 2.

''It's a statue. Its purpose is to attract tourists. I've visited. The hand doesn't wave or anything.''

No its a symbol to immigrants. They use this argument of how we are all immigrants which is a bullshit lie. Many of my ancestors were the conquerors and that is that. There is a difference in my opinion between a Conqueror and an Immigrant.

[Longbowman]

[QUOTE]Opps someone is being a grammar Nazi. I don't care if I misspell their name they are lamebrains anyway.


Topical insult there. Were* lamebrains.


my point is that it is a symbol that symbolizes 'give us your sick and poor'. We don't need anyone's sick and poor. As for taking in darker races? This came about during the 1960s and 70s not before. In fact laws were enacted to keep non Northern Europeans out. They did away with these laws after world war 2.


I meant black slaves you numbskull.


No its a symbol to immigrants. They use this argument of how we are all immigrants which is a bullshit lie. Many of my ancestors were the conquerors and that is that. There is a difference in my opinion between a Conqueror and an Immigrant.

Your ancestors got kicked out of/couldn't cut it in Europe.

[Celxon]

The Gaels from Northern Ireland were pretty much supplanted by Lowland Scots (of Anglo-Saxon origins).

Wasn't there a bit of an ethnic difference between the eastern Lowlanders and the western Lowlanders, with the latter having more Gaelic connections than the former? Doesn't Strathclyde also figure into ethnic differences, as well as Norse contact?

[Celxon]

Considering the Lowland Scots aren't anymore Celtic than people from Somerset, I'm not 100% sure on that, but it's certainly an Anglophobic, admittedly amusing piece of completely historically inaccurate rubbish.

American lyrics? Wasn't it a Brit that penned the Star-Spangled Banner?

You may have won New Orleans, but as I recall you lost that war, so there's that.

But whilst I'm very happy 'you' kicked 'us' out, and good for you, this discussion is about Northern Ireland, which would prefer that we kept our nose in its business.

Some Lowlanders had more "Celtic" roots than others. There was a difference between the eastern and western Lowlands, but the "Celtic" input was much less than that of the Highlands.

As you know,:) Francis Scott Key wrote "The Star Spangled Banner", the tune of which was based on an old English drinking song. By the way, how did we lose the War of 1812? Did I just enter some kind of parallel universe?

On point of agreement, I share your view that much of the anti-English propaganda can be taken to absurd extremes. You can blame pop culture for some of that. Painting with broad brushes is more appealing to the masses than examining the nuanced and subtle complexities of history. That phenomenon probably enters into many discussions on Northern Ireland. I blame my own countrymen for perpetuating much of it when they embrace ahistorical fantasies with 21st Century minds, not judging events by the times and places in which they occurred.

[Longbowman]

[QUOTE]Some Lowlanders had more "Celtic" roots than others. There was a difference between the eastern and western Lowlands, but the "Celtic" input was much less than that of the Highlands.


Yes but they're still not much different from people from Somerset.


As you know,:) Francis Scott Key wrote "The Star Spangled Banner", the tune of which was based on an old English drinking song. By the way, how did we lose the War of 1812? Did I just enter some kind of parallel universe?


I know Americans think they won, but think about it. You accomplished none of your aims, and we occupied New York and other cities, shut down your trade and burnt the White House. The was was (for us) part of the Napoleonic Wars, which we won. You gained territory - but from France, our enemy. How you think you won is beyond us, but we don't care because it was a minor part of a global war that culminated at Waterloo.


On point of agreement, I share your view that much of the anti-English propaganda can be taken to absurd extremes. You can blame pop culture for some of that. Painting with broad brushes is more appealing to the masses than examining the nuanced and subtle complexities of history. That phenomenon probably enters into many discussions on Northern Ireland. I blame my own countrymen for perpetuating much of it when they embrace ahistorical fantasies with 21st Century minds, not judging events by the times and places in which they occurred.

It's modern PC: it's fun to blame England because we're the ultimate rich white guys. You can always hate rich white guys.

[LightHouse89]

I know, I'm specifically using it for the North American emigres.

We are not real 'Ulster men' but nor are the current population of Northern Ireland [protestants]. Anyway I thin maybe the term Northern English/Southern Scottish people is more accurate. My ancestors for example were not really Irish but Border Reivers on my Dads side that came here. We call them Scotch Irish as a collective group realy. It is more of a cultural thing than actual ethnic. Most Americans in the 1800s considered themselves Anglo-Saxon. My father considers himself an Anglo-Saxon.

[Celxon]

Before them were the Border Reivers, and then the British moved them to American colonies because they terrorized the locals by being cattle thieves, marauders and terrorists. Some of them were my ancestors too though as I have many surnames that come from the border region of England/Scotland. Today they are called Appalachians and they are anti government still to this day here hahaha. They hated the British government but hated the Irish too. Here they seemed to have kept their culture or in a way make it more American and it became American folk culture. When the British came to America and tried to March through Appalachia they were routed due to the ruthlessness of the Border Reiver's fury :p [they even scared away the native americans].

You left out the English, Irish, Scots-Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, French, Swedish, etc. The Appalachian population wasn't limited to descendants of Borderers, let alone Border Reivers. I agree with your point about fighting prowess, though.

[LightHouse89]

[QUOTE=NormanDePoer;2216156]


Topical insult there. Were* lamebrains.




I meant black slaves you numbskull.



Your ancestors got kicked out of/couldn't cut it in Europe.

Aframs don't count they aren't apart of mankind hahaha. I never consider them apart of this country or my countryman nor will I ever. My scotch irish ancestors drove the Brits out of the South when they crossed that Mason Dixie line, a shame they did not do it to the Liberal Lincolnites later on. Its better we had America in the long run because we made such a wonderful super power today. Unfortunately is falling apart thanks to an Afram and Liberals.

As far as cutting it went I think they did pretty fine. You see I have some United Imperialist Royalist heritage [well supporters of the crown during the war for independence], they were Hessian Mercenaries from England [before that they came from the Palatine region of Germany]. They became Canadians [granted lands in Ontario] after that and losing the war. Now for my German ancestors on my mother side came here due to economic reason of Germany being hit hard after WW1. They immigrated here from Prussia after that war as Prussia disintegrated [which was a tragedy to European history]. My mothers side is Scotch Irish/Prussian [Silesian/Prussian to be exact] . My fathers side is Canadian in origin. I don't mind Canada but its just as boring as America except alittle bit colder.

My Scotch Irish ancestors came here because they were forced too. The Prussian Ancestors and my ancestors from the Palatine region [the French are to blame for that I guess].

I would say most of America is German, Irish, British Islanders in general and French [ethnic wise] many of them are descended from colonists who didn't lose much but gained a lot by coming here. We conquered these shores and did it so we could build a nation. A shame most white Americans live in guilt of this. As for blacks I would enjoy sending them back to their rightful homelands at the expense of Spain and the Netherlands who brought them here to begin with.

[LightHouse89]

You left out the English, Irish, Scots-Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, French, Swedish, etc. The Appalachian population wasn't limited to descendants of Borderers, let alone Border Reivers. I agree with your point about fighting prowess, though.

They are the majority. Anglo-Saxons mostly settled in Virginia and that is the heart of the political south. I love Alexandria and its beautiful old cotton plantations. Must have been heaven back in the mid 1800s.

[Longbowman]

[QUOTE=Longbowman;2216164]

Aframs don't count they aren't apart of mankind hahaha. I never consider them apart of this country or my countryman nor will I ever. My scotch irish ancestors drove the Brits out of the South when they crossed that Mason Dixie line, a shame they did not do it to the Liberal Lincolnites later on. Its better we had America in the long run because we made such a wonderful super power today. Unfortunately is falling apart thanks to an Afram and Liberals.

As far as cutting it went I think they did pretty fine. You see I have some United Imperialist Royalist heritage [well supporters of the crown during the war for independence], they were Hessian Mercenaries from England [before that they came from the Palatine region of Germany]. They became Canadians [granted lands in Ontario] after that and losing the war. Now for my German ancestors on my mother side came here due to economic reason of Germany being hit hard after WW1. They immigrated here from Prussia after that war as Prussia disintegrated [which was a tragedy to European history]. My mothers side is Scotch Irish/Prussian [Silesian/Prussian to be exact] . My fathers side is Canadian in origin. I don't mind Canada but its just as boring as America except alittle bit colder.

My Scotch Irish ancestors came here because they were forced too. The Prussian Ancestors and my ancestors from the Palatine region [the French are to blame for that I guess].

I would say most of America is German, Irish, British Islanders in general and French [ethnic wise] many of them are descended from colonists who didn't lose much but gained a lot by coming here. We conquered these shores and did it so we could build a nation. A shame most white Americans live in guilt of this. As for blacks I would enjoy sending them back to their rightful homelands at the expense of Spain and the Netherlands who brought them here to begin with.

United Empire Loyalist*

I'm as pro-White as the next guy but I'm not going to dignify your defence of your 'no darkies in America' argument with 'Aframs don't count as they aren't human' by responding to you anymore.

[Celxon]

They are the majority. Anglo-Saxons mostly settled in Virginia and that is the heart of the political south. I love Alexandria and its beautiful old cotton plantations. Must have been heaven back in the mid 1800s.

I can trace my ancestry back to the late 1700s in that region, and it was comprised of people from different countries and different regions. "Albion's Seed" is a great book, but it shouldn't be seen as gospel truth in all situations. According to that book, I should have just Borderer and Scots-Irish roots. Well, I'm also descended from the other three groups mentioned in "Albion's Seed", as are many Americans. People on forums have the idea that everyone, from a given American area, has a universal ethnicity. For instance, they'll refer to "the Scots-Irish South" or "the German Midwest" as if you won't find millions of people of English descent in both regions. As for me, I also have Gaelic Irish, Highland Scottish, and Welsh ancestry on both sides, which really goes against the grain of absolutist claims. I'm not denying that the basic template is true, though. It's just that things are more complicated than they're made out to be.

[LightHouse89]

Suit yourself. The government should have kept the rule 1/3 a person [every three Negroes=one person] the law should have either kept it that way or given them California or best, bring them back to their rightful homes. Personally I am against slavery as it gives off a bad image to the world. Sending them back to Africa giving them LA s a better choice. Just not in my New England. I cant stand chimp behavior.

United Empire Loyalist*

Yes that's what I mentioned.

[LightHouse89]

I can trace my ancestry back to the late 1700s in that region, and it was comprised of people from different countries and different regions. "Albion's Seed" is a great book, but it shouldn't be seen as gospel truth in all situations. According to that book, I should have just Borderer and Scots-Irish roots. Well, I'm also descended from the other three groups mentioned in "Albion's Seed", as are many Americans. People on forums have the idea that everyone, from a given American area, has a universal ethnicity. For instance, they'll refer to "the Scots-Irish South" or "the German Midwest" as if you won't find millions of people of English descent in both regions. As for me, I also have Gaelic Irish, Highland Scottish, and Welsh ancestry on both sides, which really goes against the grain of absolutist claims. I'm not denying that the basic template is true, though. It's just that things are more complicated than they're made out to be.

I have similar roots just no Welsh or Scottish. I don't consider Lowland Scots to be Scottish in the same sense as a highlander. They cluster more with the Northern English. They are descendants of the Norse [and some Celt]. I am proud to have his ancestry along with my Hessian/Prussian heritage. A shame Prussia is no more but when that little nation died, Germany died with it. Where I live Germans made little impact. The Irish and English are most prevalent. Also Lutheran Scandinavians which I cannot stand [they are less in number and live in rural communities].

[Celxon]

Suit yourself. The government should have kept the rule 1/3 a person [every three Negroes=one person] the law should have either kept it that way or given them California or best, bring them back to their rightful homes. Personally I am against slavery as it gives off a bad image to the world. Sending them back to Africa giving them LA s a better choice. Just not in my New England. I cant stand chimp behavior.

United Empire Loyalist*

Yes that's what I mentioned.

That's where we part company. Black Americans have fought in every war, even when they were considered by many people to be a fraction of a person, which was a bit misunderstood in that the fraction had more to do with apportionment than personhood. Anyway, they have as much of a right as anyone to claim American roots. The urban societal problems have more to do with environment than heredity, which is evident when you compare the state of the Black family today to the Black family of yesterday. White family statistics have declined over the same period of time, and you listed some of the reasons as to why this is. The cultural Marxists wreaked havoc on both communities, but many Black people share traditional values with many White people, and neither group is inherently superior. This is no lecture on my part. You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't judge people by their race. Each person is an individual, not a group. The criminals in the inner cities don't represent all Black people. They're just continuations of a phenomenon that's been found in ghettoes and slums since the Irish came to New York, Boston, and other cities in the 1840s. You didn't see the same social pathologies among Irish immigrants who settled in other parts of the country (not that all urban Irish were troublemakers in the 1800s). You saw the same pattern with Italian, Jewish, Polish, etc. urban youth in the past, and all of those groups broke the cycle when they improved their lives. That's how it is with Black Americans today. The pathologies are mostly limited to urban regions, and most of the troublemakers are younger males, although the younger females are getting worse. That's all I'll say. Apologies for the annoying thread drift. It won't happen again; I promise.

[Weedman]

The Northern Irish are primarily descendants of Lowland Scots, hence Anglo-Saxon (Lowland Scots are of Anglo-Saxon origins). They are Presbyterian. They came to settle in Ulster after 1607.

Lowland Scots are of greatly mixed Celtic + Anglo-Saxon origins, especially those from the western Lowlands, which is where most Northern Irish (Ulster-Scots) came from, as well as coming from the Borders also.

[Weedman]

Ireland did not have much to offer England back then or even today so I don't understand why they have to have a 'Northern Ireland' and a Irish Republic.

because the majority of people actually living in Northern Ireland WANT there to be a Northern Ireland, and separated from the Irish Republic.

as an American you should know how democracy works.

[LightHouse89]

So... they aren't really Irish?

they are plastic paddies as they call people who claim descent in America who are biologically more irish than these invaders. They call people like me 'plastic paddies' but the reality is they are because they say they are irish but support unionism. Total frauds.

[Loki]

We are not real 'Ulster men' but nor are the current population of Northern Ireland [protestants]. Anyway I thin maybe the term Northern English/Southern Scottish people is more accurate. My ancestors for example were not really Irish but Border Reivers on my Dads side that came here. We call them Scotch Irish as a collective group realy. It is more of a cultural thing than actual ethnic. Most Americans in the 1800s considered themselves Anglo-Saxon. My father considers himself an Anglo-Saxon.

But those are the same stock as Presbyterian Northern Irish.

[LightHouse89]

because the majority of people actually living in Northern Ireland WANT there to be a Northern Ireland, and separated from the Irish Republic.

as an American you should know how democracy works.

supporting thieves to me is against the law.

[LightHouse89]

But those are the same stock as Presbyterian Northern Irish.

Not really they were different clans lets say. Border Reivers were placed in America because the British did not know what to do with them. They in a way hated them but placed them in Appalachia as a buffer against native American raids in their colonies. It worked at keeping the natives out of their main colonial areas in Eastern usa. They had a similar religion with northern irish people but ethnically somewhat different. The modern northern irish have more in common with southern England and Scotland [highlands]. The border reivers did not really consider themselves Scottish or English as they were very resistant to both kingdoms and had no loyalty to either government. The british said well what the hell get rid of these trouble makers and put them in the America's, this is one way the british created colonies was to put what they considered criminals in their colonies. The Puritans for example are one group but in a way I don't blame them for getting rid of those fruit cakes.

[Longbowman]

de Poer, are you Irish or English? You flip-flop back and forth depending on the day. Also you have an Anglo-Saxon banner but claim to be more Irish than 'the invaders.'

Are you yourself not a thief? Are you not living on stolen land? 'Return' your land to the Sioux and the Miq'maq and the Athabask, then we'll talk about ancient history.

[Loki]

they are plastic paddies as they call people who claim descent in America who are biologically more irish than these invaders. They call people like me 'plastic paddies' but the reality is they are because they say they are irish but support unionism. Total frauds.

What's wrong with unionism?

[Graham]

American Scots-Irish were just the Northern Irish Presbyterians, who got pissed off enough with the British imposing Penal Laws & basically lack of freedom. That and the Catholics not being welcoming. It was see you later alligators, hello America.

[Loki]

Not really they were different clans lets say. Border Reivers were placed in America because the British did not know what to do with them. They in a way hated them but placed them in Appalachia as a buffer against native American raids in their colonies. It worked at keeping the natives out of their main colonial areas in Eastern usa. They had a similar religion with northern irish people but ethnically somewhat different. The modern northern irish have more in common with southern England and Scotland [highlands]. The border reivers did not really consider themselves Scottish or English as they were very resistant to both kingdoms and had no loyalty to either government. The british said well what the hell get rid of these trouble makers and put them in the America's, this is one way the british created colonies was to put what they considered criminals in their colonies. The Puritans for example are one group but in a way I don't blame them for getting rid of those fruit cakes.

Interesting.

[Black Wolf]

What's wrong with unionism?

Many of my relatives in Ireland are Unionists actually.

[Graham]

You should sit down & watch the whole series, but this is good. I think it was this episode, that was relevant to thread. :) Edit: yes it is. Recommended


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R53xY9KiZt8

[LightHouse89]

de Poer, are you Irish or English? You flip-flop back and forth depending on the day. Also you have an Anglo-Saxon banner but claim to be more Irish than 'the invaders.'

Are you yourself not a thief? Are you not living on stolen land? 'Return' your land to the Sioux and the Miq'maq and the Athabask, then we'll talk about ancient history.

I would return certain areas back to the natives infact, or let them administer their own political system because they were screwed over in a sense. When did I change my heritage? I have some roots in Northern England but they were Border Riever ancestry on my Dad's side. To me those people were not Anglo-Saxon nor Scottish. I have Irish heritage as well, my mother is literally half German and half Irish. The British treated the Irish like dogs in their own lands and treated blacks and native americans with far more respect. It would be foolish to say that the English were not thieve and treated the Irish like saves in their own lands. Now if they added Ireland to their UK and the irish wanted to be then history would have been much better in relations I suppose. The fact is the Protestants kicked many people out heir homes, forced them to starve in their own country and placed them on coffin ships to be sent here. This was the fate of some of my ancestors and I am suppose to be happy about that? Or for that matter love England or worse and heaven forbid accept Ulstermen? Ulstermen are imposters and fake Irish people to me. The real Ulstermen are Catholics living in Northern Ireland.

[LightHouse89]

Interesting.

there is a history about them. If you look up the history of these people then you would realize they are different than scots or English. To me they were the Vikings of the british islands.

[Loki]

I would return certain areas back to the natives infact, or let them administer their own political system because they were screwed over in a sense. When did I change my heritage? I have some roots in Northern England but they were Border Riever ancestry on my Dad's side. To me those people were not Anglo-Saxon nor Scottish. I have Irish heritage as well, my mother is literally half German and half Irish. The British treated the Irish like dogs in their own lands and treated blacks and native americans with far more respect. It would be foolish to say that the English were not thieve and treated the Irish like saves in their own lands. Now if they added Ireland to their UK and the irish wanted to be then history would have been much better in relations I suppose. The fact is the Protestants kicked many people out heir homes, forced them to starve in their own country and placed them on coffin ships to be sent here. This was the fate of some of my ancestors and I am suppose to be happy about that? Or for that matter love England or worse and heaven forbid accept Ulstermen? Ulstermen are imposters and fake Irish people to me. The real Ulstermen are Catholics living in Northern Ireland.

Protestants have been in Northern Ireland since 1607. Get with the times.

[Longbowman]

I would return certain areas back to the natives infact, or let them administer their own political system because they were screwed over in a sense. When did I change my heritage? I have some roots in Northern England but they were Border Riever ancestry on my Dad's side. To me those people were not Anglo-Saxon nor Scottish. I have Irish heritage as well, my mother is literally half German and half Irish. The British treated the Irish like dogs in their own lands and treated blacks and native americans with far more respect. It would be foolish to say that the English were not thieve and treated the Irish like saves in their own lands. Now if they added Ireland to their UK and the irish wanted to be then history would have been much better in relations I suppose. The fact is the Protestants kicked many people out heir homes, forced them to starve in their own country and placed them on coffin ships to be sent here. This was the fate of some of my ancestors and I am suppose to be happy about that? Or for that matter love England or worse and heaven forbid accept Ulstermen? Ulstermen are imposters and fake Irish people to me. The real Ulstermen are Catholics living in Northern Ireland.

You can't choose your genetics. You can choose the banner under your name, though, and you've chosen an Anglo-Saxon one, which kind of undermines your point.

Fine, you make some excellent points. Now give back your land to the Native Americans. Not a few square miles, all of it.

[LightHouse89]

What's wrong with unionism?

catholics had no choice to be apart of a union and were treated like dirt on the land that was their ancestors. Much of this is to blame for Cromwell and his evil doings in Ireland. The British could have reversed this and been more tolerant of the irish and maybe unionism would have become popular to them out of popularity. The English destroyed irish culture and language and would kill people for speaking Gaellic if they spoke it in front of Protestants. That is why today road signs and the official language of Ireland is English. If anything the English wanted to destroy Ireland to make it into a little England puppet state.

[Loki]

William of Orange was a great man. He married a woman from the same family that my ancestor did.

[Black Wolf]

I would return certain areas back to the natives infact, or let them administer their own political system because they were screwed over in a sense. When did I change my heritage? I have some roots in Northern England but they were Border Riever ancestry on my Dad's side. To me those people were not Anglo-Saxon nor Scottish. I have Irish heritage as well, my mother is literally half German and half Irish. The British treated the Irish like dogs in their own lands and treated blacks and native americans with far more respect. It would be foolish to say that the English were not thieve and treated the Irish like saves in their own lands. Now if they added Ireland to their UK and the irish wanted to be then history would have been much better in relations I suppose. The fact is the Protestants kicked many people out heir homes, forced them to starve in their own country and placed them on coffin ships to be sent here. This was the fate of some of my ancestors and I am suppose to be happy about that? Or for that matter love England or worse and heaven forbid accept Ulstermen? Ulstermen are imposters and fake Irish people to me. The real Ulstermen are Catholics living in Northern Ireland.

Go say that to the North Irish Protestants who still live there. Call them ''fake Irish people'' they would laugh in your face.

[Loki]

catholics had no choice to be apart of a union and were treated like dirt on the land that was their ancestors. Much of this is to blame for Cromwell and his evil doings in Ireland. The British could have reversed this and been more tolerant of the irish and maybe unionism would have become popular to them out of popularity. The English destroyed irish culture and language and would kill people for speaking Gaellic if they spoke it in front of Protestants. That is why today road signs and the official language of Ireland is English. If anything the English wanted to destroy Ireland to make it into a little England puppet state.

That is historical. You can't blame modern NI for that.

[LightHouse89]

You can't choose your genetics. You can choose the banner under your name, though, and you've chosen an Anglo-Saxon one, which kind of undermines your point.

Fine, you make some excellent points. Now give back your land to the Native Americans. Not a few square miles, all of it.

I would. But as you may know I am not a politician and no one would support such an idea. I don thin native americans want anything to do with the American government though. Teddy Roosevelt had a lot of respect for native americans even politically. He had their chiefs sit in congress and to me that was a good thing.

[Loki]

Go say that to the North Irish Protestants who still live there. Call them ''fake Irish people'' they would laugh in your face.

They would probably kill him.

[LightHouse89]

That is historical. You can't blame modern NI for that.

They tell people like me I am not irish yet their ancestors kicked my ancestors out of Ireland so I get pissed when they try to tell me they are more Irish because they are artificially irish.

[LightHouse89]

They would probably kill him.

not if I had my IRA buddies hehehehehehe

[Longbowman]

I would. But as you may know I am not a politician and no one would support such an idea. I don thin native americans want anything to do with the American government though. Teddy Roosevelt had a lot of respect for native americans even politically. He had their chiefs sit in congress and to me that was a good thing.

I don't care what one of your thieving, invasive presidents did for the Red Man to make himself feel better about being a thieving invader. As long as you're on the continental United States, you're nothing but a colonising rapist. Be an example and give your land freely to a Native tribe.

[LightHouse89]

Go say that to the North Irish Protestants who still live there. Call them ''fake Irish people'' they would laugh in your face.

they are fake artificial Irish who disrespect Irish americans and mock us for our ancestry. To hell with what they think. They are descendants of thieves to me.

[Longbowman]

not if I had my IRA buddies hehehehehehe

'Your IRA buddies' wouldn't kill a man. They'd plant a bomb where some civilians might walk into it and tell themselves they're fighting oppression.

[LightHouse89]

I don't care what one of your thieving, invasive presidents did for the Red Man to make himself feel better about being a thieving invader. As long as you're on the continental United States, you're nothing but a colonising rapist. Be an example and give your land freely to a Native tribe.

Native Americans believed in sharing.

[Longbowman]

Native Americans believed in sharing.

Yes, the Indian Wars are a long history of the Natives sharing too much.

Wounded Knee.

[Black Wolf]

they are fake artificial Irish who disrespect Irish americans and mock us for our ancestry. To hell with what they think. They are descendants of thieves to me.

Wahhh wahh wahhh booo hoooo poor you.

[LightHouse89]

'Your IRA buddies' wouldn't kill a man. They'd plant a bomb where some civilians might walk into it and tell themselves they're fighting oppression.

Allah snackbar! Like the British did not go through villages shooting Irish civilians during all of the wars in Ireland. They use to line children up and shoot them. That's British justice when the Anglo-Saxon doesn't get his way.

[Loki]

They tell people like me I am not irish yet their ancestors kicked my ancestors out of Ireland so I get pissed when they try to tell me they are more Irish because they are artificially irish.

You are a typical hateful person of Catholic origins. Lowest of the low.

[LightHouse89]

Wahhh wahh wahhh booo hoooo poor you.

Yes you worthless Canuck.

[Longbowman]

Allah snackbar! Like the British did not go through villages shooting Irish civilians during all of the wars in Ireland. They use to line children up and shoot them. That's British justice when the Anglo-Saxon doesn't get his way.

We always get our way. Plastic Paddies whining from stolen land across the sea won't change that.

[Loki]

I never said they were Irish.

[LightHouse89]

You are a typical hateful person of Catholic origins. Lowest of the low.

How so? Give Northern Ireland politically back to Ireland and I lets say would have a more positive out look on Protestants. Im not saying kick them out of Ireland I am just saying politically Ireland should be Ireland. Not two Irelands.

[Elsa]

Allah snackbar! Like the British did not go through villages shooting Irish civilians during all of the wars in Ireland. They use to line children up and shoot them. That's British justice when the Anglo-Saxon doesn't get his way.

When did that happen? Do you have a source?

[Loki]

How so? Give Northern Ireland politically back to Ireland and I lets say would have a more positive out look on Protestants. Im not saying kick them out of Ireland I am just saying politically Ireland should be Ireland. Not two Irelands.

It's 400 years too late for that.

[LightHouse89]

When did that happen? Do you have a source?

Your on drugs if you don't know this history. The black and tans? England's mercenaries that murdered Irish people during world war 1.

[LightHouse89]

We always get our way. Plastic Paddies whining from stolen land across the sea won't change that.

explain to me how we are plastic?

[Black Wolf]

Yes you worthless Canuck.

I'd rather be a Canuck than a typical retarded American like you.

[Longbowman]

It's 400 years too late for that.

Ireland was only ever a single polity under British rule. Before that, it was under partial British rule, from 1170 when the first Anglo-Normans were invited by the kings of Leinster; they set up English colonies with Frisian, Scottish, and Welsh people, too. Their pseudo-Saxon languages, like Yola, persisted til the 1800s. But before them, Ireland was a series of kingdoms and tribal territories. Ireland was united by the Crown.

[Longbowman]

Your on drugs if you don't know this history. The black and tans? England's mercenaries that murdered Irish people during world war 1.

After world war one* is just the first thing that pops out as wrong. The Blacks and Tans were ex-servicemen and they didn't murder people (well, I'm sure one or two did). Certainly no more than the IRA did, at the same time.

[Longbowman]

explain to me how we are plastic?

You have maybe one Irish great-grandparents, have never even visited the Emerald Isle, don't vote, don't pay taxes, and you still think you get a say on the issue. You're a Yank, not a Paddy. Accept it.

[LightHouse89]

I'd rather be a Canuck than a typical retarded American like you.

Your country is a joke 'A'. A Whore nation to England.

[LightHouse89]

You have maybe one Irish great-grandparents, have never even visited the Emerald Isle, don't vote, don't pay taxes, and you still think you get a say on the issue. You're a Yank, not a Paddy. Accept it.

I have been to Ireland [3 times and have relatives there], Germany, Austria, Canada, Switzerland, Netherlands, England, and planning on going to Russia soon. My 'grand father' was Irish, O'Sullivan was his surname. My father's father was a Powers and from Irish roots as well.

[Black Wolf]

Your country is a joke 'A'. A Whore nation to England.

I would beg to differ. History and especially recent history has made your country look much more like a joke than mine.

[LightHouse89]

After world war one* is just the first thing that pops out as wrong. The Blacks and Tans were ex-servicemen and they didn't murder people (well, I'm sure one or two did). Certainly no more than the IRA did, at the same time.

they were criminals. Along with Cromwell's men which are adored in England.

[LightHouse89]

I would beg to differ. History and especially recent history has made your country look much more like a joke than mine.

your nation is a joke sir. No matter what you say you Canuck.

[Black Wolf]

The IRA is scum.

[Black Wolf]

your nation is a joke sir. No matter what you say you Canuck.

Far from it. More like the other way around Yank.

[LightHouse89]

The IRA is scum.

yes in modern times they are drug dealers and losers. But in world war 1 they were heroes.

[Longbowman]

they were criminals. Along with Cromwell's men which are adored in England.

No, they really aren't. He was a tyrant. Why do people believe this?


I have been to Ireland [3 times and have relatives there], Germany, Austria, Canada, Switzerland, Netherlands, England, and planning on going to Russia soon. My 'grand father' was Irish, O'Sullivan was his surname. My father's father was a Powers and from Irish roots as well.

Oh, my mistake. You have been and your grandfather is Irish. Well, I guess I'm Austrian. If you'll excuse me I must shout at my fellow citizens about how beneficial it would be if we were to invade Slovenia.

[LightHouse89]

Far from it. More like the other way around Yank.

I am a New Englander not a Yank dumbass.

[Black Wolf]

I am a New Englander not a Yank dumbass.

Right of course a New Englander. A Yank none the less moron.

[LightHouse89]

No, they really aren't. He was a tyrant. Why do people believe this?



Oh, my mistake. You have been and your grandfather is Irish. Well, I guess I'm Austrian. If you'll excuse me I must shout at my fellow citizens about how beneficial it would be if we were to invade Slovenia.

Cool if your Austrian. I am just saying that is my ancestry plus the German side. Its funny when I try to comment about my biological and cultural origins I am called a 'plastic' whatever.

[LightHouse89]

Right of course a New Englander. A Yank none the less moron.

We aren't Yanks fucktard. You canucks are dumber than you think. A bunch of rednecks living in the tundra.

[Longbowman]

Cool if your Austrian. I am just saying that is my ancestry plus the German side. Its funny when I try to comment about my biological and cultural origins I am called a 'plastic' whatever.

Ok, I'm sorry if I was unclear or confused you: I'm not saying you're not ethnically [part] Irish. I am saying you aren't Irish by nationality. You've never paid taxes or supported the state, so you don't really get to take it this personally. It's like when Jews get really defensive about Israel: the response is: why do you care, you're not Israeli.

[Black Wolf]

We aren't Yanks fucktard. You canucks are dumber than you think. A bunch of rednecks living in the tundra.

You are a Yank asswipe.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yank

[LightHouse89]

Ok, I'm sorry if I was unclear or confused you: I'm not saying you're not ethnically [part] Irish. I am saying you aren't Irish by nationality. You've never paid taxes or supported the state, so you don't really get to take it this personally. It's like when Jews get really defensive about Israel: the response is: why do you care, you're not Israeli.

I know I am not a citizen of Ireland I am just saying I have descent from there. I am proud of it that's all but get frustrated when people say because I am born in America I am not allowed to hold an opinion of my ancestor's country. I like modern Ireland more than Germany, as I found Germany to be strange. Not to go of topic.

I hold opinions on Ireland but dislike Northern Irish people for their arrogance and think that they never did anything wrong in history. They always say Oh its another plastic paddy, when many of our people were loaded on to boats [coffin ships] to be sent here. Now don't think Americans back then were wonderful to us they were just as bad if not worse. I have my views on America as well and dislike the government here for the most part.

[LightHouse89]

You are a Yank asswipe.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yank

You are a canuck jerkoff. Now go fuck a polar bear. I love it when the Bruins beat the Canucks I rejoice at it. I like seeing stupid Canadians cry about it on television.

[Graham]

American Canadians arguing.

loving it!! :cool:

[LightHouse89]

American Canadians arguing.

loving it!! :cool:

Canadians are retarded rednecks. Arrogant too. Mostly the English area of Canada they copy America and even drive our cars. They are wanna be Americans and hate us for it.

[Graham]

My Loyalties lie with Nova Scotia. :)

[LightHouse89]

My Loyalties lie with Nova Scotia. :)

fine with me. You are loyal to them for being Scottish hahahah. I like New England as it has a old history like Quebec. I like Quebec in Canada just not Ontario as it was bland looking to me and they seemed like wanna be Americans.

[Weedman]

supporting thieves to me is against the law.

the Northern Irish have been there since the 1600's.....

so by your hypocritical view, then it's illegal for you to reside in America, since you "stole" it from the ones who were here long before you, as well.

[Weedman]

Not really they were different clans lets say. Border Reivers were placed in America because the British did not know what to do with them. They in a way hated them but placed them in Appalachia as a buffer against native American raids in their colonies. It worked at keeping the natives out of their main colonial areas in Eastern usa. .

the northern Irish are descended from people who came from the western Lowlands of Scotland and the Anglo-Scottish Border area.

the Scotch-Irish in America are descended from protestants who were from the north of Ireland (of mixed ancestry from the western Lowlands and Anglo-Scottish Borders) and protestants who were also from Anglo-Scottish Borders, but went directly to America as well.


the northern Irish are themselves descended from Border Reivers and they had a great impact on their culture.

[Weedman]

yes in modern times they are drug dealers and losers. But in world war 1 they were heroes.

so were the U.V.F.

[Weedman]

They tell people like me I am not irish yet their ancestors kicked my ancestors out of Ireland so I get pissed when they try to tell me they are more Irish because they are artificially irish.

unless your ancestors were among the Earls who took part in the Flight of the wild geese or something, they didnt kick them out of Ireland.

sounds like some insecure Irish American trying to "prove" his Irishness to himself.

the only Catholics who were kicked off their lands in Ulster were the top few who actually owned it :the tribal chiefs, such as the leaders of the O'Neills and etc...

the vast majority of Irish Catholics (tenants) were never "kicked off the land" in Ulster, by the incoming Protestants during the plantation.

[LightHouse89]

the Northern Irish have been there since the 1600's.....

so by your hypocritical view, then it's illegal for you to reside in America, since you "stole" it from the ones who were here long before you, as well.

I am not descended from the English colonists. My ancestors came here after the colonies were established so how does that make me a thief? Hmmm let the liberal Anglo-Saxons rip their own hair out!

[LightHouse89]

unless your ancestors were among the Earls who took part in the Flight of the wild geese or something, they didnt kick them out of Ireland.

sounds like some insecure Irish American trying to "prove" his Irishness to himself.

the only Catholics who were kicked off their lands in Ulster were the top few who actually owned it :the tribal chiefs, such as the leaders of the O'Neills and etc...

the vast majority of Irish Catholics (tenants) were never "kicked off the land" in Ulster, by the incoming Protestants during the plantation.

No they only made my ancestors slaves in their own country. Everyone knows of this history. If you were Irish you couldn't own a fishing pole to fish in the sea, you could not own guns to hunt, you couldn't live period. They wanted to exterminate Irish people for being catholic. So many of them boarded coffin ships and left their own lands because they couldn't survive. The English and Northern Irish systematically tried to kill off the Irish the same way Russia tried to murder Ukrainians during the red revolution by forcing them to starve to death. That is pure evil to me.

[LightHouse89]

so were the U.V.F.

thank you for admitting that then. Yes they too were criminals.

[LightHouse89]

unless your ancestors were among the Earls who took part in the Flight of the wild geese or something, they didnt kick them out of Ireland.

sounds like some insecure Irish American trying to "prove" his Irishness to himself.

the only Catholics who were kicked off their lands in Ulster were the top few who actually owned it :the tribal chiefs, such as the leaders of the O'Neills and etc...

the vast majority of Irish Catholics (tenants) were never "kicked off the land" in Ulster, by the incoming Protestants during the plantation.

The point is Ireland to a degree should have been left alone and allowed to enter maybe a Union with England on their own terms not by force. Eventually they would have for economical reasons....I doubt Ireland would have turned out like the Netherlands with some economic success and world prestige.

[Loki]

I doubt Ireland would have turned out like the Netherlands with some economic success and world prestige.

Yes, because they're Cat-holic.

[Weedman]

The point is Ireland to a degree should have been left alone and allowed to enter maybe a Union with England on their own .

should've, could've, would've....... who cares.

[Weedman]

No they only made my ancestors slaves in their own country. Everyone knows of this history. If you were Irish you couldn't own a fishing pole to fish in the sea, you could not own guns to hunt, you couldn't live period. They wanted to exterminate Irish people for being catholic. So many of them boarded coffin ships and left their own lands because they couldn't survive. The English and Northern Irish systematically tried to kill off the Irish the same way Russia tried to murder Ukrainians during the red revolution by forcing them to starve to death. That is pure evil to me.

and some of your ancestors did crazy stuff to native indians and black people in america too at the same time.............. so what's your point?

[Weedman]

I am not descended from the English colonists. My ancestors came here after the colonies were established so how does that make me a thief? Hmmm let the liberal Anglo-Saxons rip their own hair out!


It wasnt just the English colonists who took land from the Natives. It was white americans in general, still doing it even up to the late 1800's

as far as most native Indians or black americans see it, "you" stole their land and enslaved them, Whitey.

Yeah they're dead wrong, but so are you to blame modern day Northern Irish for stupid crap that happened 400 years ago.

besides only a few of the planters were actually undertakers, who had control over land distribution.

[LightHouse89]

and some of your ancestors did crazy stuff to native indians and black people in america too at the same time.............. so what's your point?

so my german Prussian ancestors who came here in 1890 are to be blamed for what happened to people thye did nothing too? The same with my irish ancestors which came here in 1880 as well? Yeah they were some real murderers. The oldest ancestor on my Dad's side came here from Hessen/Palatine region and fought for the British later being granted land in Cornwall, Ontario Canada. No Native Americans were murdered by his hands because he fought against the rebels. Now this must make me a traitor heheheh. Not one of my ancestors was a colonizer. Now the Scotch Irish came here as well at the same time as the Hessen ancestor in the late 1700s and they were actually pro British and anti America. I found this out through family records. Not one of my ancestors were colonials or thieves.

[LightHouse89]

It wasnt just the English colonists who took land from the Natives. It was white americans in general, still doing it even up to the late 1800's

as far as most native Indians or black americans see it, "you" stole their land and enslaved them, Whitey.

Yeah they're dead wrong, but so are you to blame modern day Northern Irish for stupid crap that happened 400 years ago.

besides only a few of the planters were actually undertakers, who had control over land distribution.

Furthermore not one of my ancestors owned black slaves or stole any land from anybody. I will say the American government kicked the German hessian ancestors of mine off their land for supporting the crown.

[rhiannon]

Don't use "Scotch-Irish", this is an American thing and the Northern Irish don't like it. Use "Ulster Scots".I figured out some time ago the two terms refer to the same people. I prefer the use of the latter term as well. It's a lot more accurate a descriptor

[LightHouse89]

should've, could've, would've....... who cares.

I suppose no one cares as it was not their ancestors who were robbed and treated like second class citizens in their own lands. I am just saying this because its the truth and history proves it. Its okay though just low life irish people. There is a reason I detest homosexual English people. [to me british=homosexual]. They are very open and tolerant of this behavior so it fits them to me. I do not see why I should care about Northern Irish people they are crooks themselves. :coffee:

[LightHouse89]

Yes, because they're Cat-holic.

I am shocked you side with the British pimp state.

[Longbowman]

I am shocked you side with the British pimp state.

He lives here. He knows what's what. He's loyal. He's one of us :)

[Weedman]

I do not see why I should care about Northern Irish people they are crooks themselves. :coffee:

so why do you care so much?

obviously it gets under your skin a great deal............which means you care about it.

[Weedman]

I am shocked you side with the British pimp state.

calling someone a Pimp is a compliment.....not an insult.

as an American you should know that.

[Caismeachd]

I know I am much more of a pimp than most american guys. I can't help myself. All that uprightness and overcompensation doesn't exist with me. I am just a natural pimp and have to thank my British genes for that.

[Weedman]

I suppose no one cares as it was not their ancestors who were robbed and treated like second class citizens in their own lands. . Its okay though just low life irish people. :bored:

has all that stuff from like 300 hundred years ago really made such a negative impact on your life?

God!...cry me a freak'in river, already.


you're giving Irish Americans a bad name on here.
I thought you were supposed to be tough and live in working class Boston neighborhoods and grow up to be Irish Mobsters n stuff.....or become NYC cops that dont put with up with B.S.:rolleyes:

[LightHouse89]

so why do you care so much?

obviously it gets under your skin a great deal............which means you care about it.

I had the luxery of hearing some northern cunt fake irish tell me I wasn't at all irish in any way and I told the bastard off. I said come say that in Soutie and the authorities will find your body in an ally way the next day. I doubt he would ever come to the most Irish neck of the woods in New England. I have been to Ireland three times and its a beautiful country with a deep and rich history. I like their pre English culture as it is more interesting to me than the fuck up Northern Irish culture which is fake and not Irish to me.

I get into this with people who bring up this topic and get very anti English real quick as a result of it. I suppose much of this has to do with the fact British people mock us Americans for our heritage and the fact we care about what our ancestors went through. History doesn't lie and its there and we feel unloyal to finding it acceptable of the British who did what they did in Ireland. Its okay to nonwhites and I don't give a rats ass about their opinions or any non Irish peoples opinions as we were always seen as a much lower people. I don't see why I should accept British people or their opinions in regards to what is Irish and what isn't. To them a black immigrant in Ireland is Irish because they are born there. To me this is unacceptable.

[LightHouse89]

has all that stuff from like 300 hundred years ago really made such a negative impact on your life?

God!...cry me a freak'in river, already.

No but quit it with the liberal BS in regards to what happened 300 years ago. It will repeat itself again I am sure.

[LightHouse89]

I know I am much more of a pimp than most american guys. I can't help myself. All that uprightness and overcompensation doesn't exist with me. I am just a natural pimp and have to thank my British genes for that.

British people are cocky, think they know more than everyone else, liberal, pro homosexual, feminists etc........I can write a book on these abnormal animals.

[LightHouse89]

calling someone a Pimp is a compliment.....not an insult.

as an American you should know that.

maybe where you live. Up where I live its a Nigger word and inappropriate. Only a pig would take pride in such. Prostitution is not funny and a disease. For a while it did not exist but many immigrant women are here doing this and getting arrested for it which is good. Children should not be around piggish behavior. I am glad its not legal in America. It may be legal in Sodom and Gomorrah Britain but if that suits them that's fine with me.

[Celxon]

I am not descended from the English colonists. My ancestors came here after the colonies were established so how does that make me a thief? Hmmm let the liberal Anglo-Saxons rip their own hair out!

No offense, but your views confuse me. You defend the "righteous" Irish against the "wicked" English and Ulster Scottish. Yet, you're in the Anglo-Saxon group. You live in "New Angle-land". You left out Ireland in your ancestry. You claim to be descended from the "heroic" Borderers and Scots-Irish. You had a spat with a Canadian guy, but you had roots in his country. Doesn't that all seem a bit schizophrenic to you? :D You remind me of a banned poster named Argyll. His posts are full of Celtic fetishism and worship. To each their own. One can be forgiven for suspecting that you're engaging in parody, though.

[Caismeachd]

Brits just don't care about that stuff. The most important topics of debate in US are god, guns, and gays but in UK those topics lost their value about 20 years ago. US is behind Europe about 20 years.

[Weedman]

I had the luxery of hearing some northern cunt fake irish tell me I wasn't at all irish in any way and I told the bastard off. I said come say that in Soutie and the authorities will find your body in an ally way the next day. I doubt he would ever come to the most Irish neck of the woods in New England. I have been to Ireland three times and its a beautiful country with a deep and rich history. I like their pre English culture as it is more interesting to me than the fuck up Northern Irish culture which is fake and not Irish to me.

I get into this with people who bring up this topic and get very anti English real quick as a result of it. I suppose much of this has to do with the fact British people mock us Americans for our heritage and the fact we care about what our ancestors went through. History doesn't lie and its there and we feel unloyal to finding it acceptable of the British who did what they did in Ireland. Its okay to nonwhites and I don't give a rats ass about their opinions or any non Irish peoples opinions as we were always seen as a much lower people. I don't see why I should accept British people or their opinions in regards to what is Irish and what isn't. To them a black immigrant in Ireland is Irish because they are born there. To me this is unacceptable.:picard1:

:thumb001: you're right. As a fellow American, I agree..we should just wipe out the Brits. in fact I am still pissed off about the American Revolution....yeah I know we won, but so what! That aint the point, right?
Let's kill those cheeky bastards..... I mean, taxation without representation? Ah, Hell no!

[LightHouse89]

No offense, but your views confuse me. You defend the "righteous" Irish against the "wicked" English and Ulster Scottish. Yet, you're in the Anglo-Saxon group. You live in "New Angle-land". You left out Ireland in your ancestry. You claim to be descended from the "heroic" Borderers and Scots-Irish. You had a spat with a Canadian guy, but you had roots in his country. Doesn't that all seem a bit schizophrenic to you? :D You remind me of a banned poster named Argyll. His posts are full of Celtic fetishism and worship. To each their own. One can be forgiven for suspecting that you're engaging in parody, though.

I am a Jacobite and anti modern British Unionism. I hate Canada despite having some ancestry from there. Canada to me is lame except Quebec but I consider Quebec to be separate from English Canada. Yes New England which is the best 'England' to me. England died when they became British over the pond.

I don't have a celtic fetish....What's wrong with supporting Irish real culture not the culture of the thieves? I dislike how people rag on people who live in America for their roots. I don't hate all Anglo-Saxons but many of them to me are liberal pussies or anti Irish for whatever reason. My border riever heritage I am proud of as they were ant Scotland and anti England and anti Unonism. They became the modern Confederate Americans later on and fought against Lincoln treason.

[LightHouse89]

:thumb001: you're right. As a fellow American, I agree..we should just wipe out the Brits. in fact I am still pissed off about the American Revolution....yeah I know we won, but so what! That aint the point, right?
Let's kill those cheeky bastards..... I mean, taxation without representation? Ah, Hell no!

no just direct all the immigrants coming here to England and that will settle the issue. I think we should post a sign on the statute of liberty saying America is that way [pointing to Britain]. LOL I don't want to wipe them out we need something to laugh at otherwise life would be boring.

[LightHouse89]

Brits just don't care about that stuff. The most important topics of debate in US are god, guns, and gays but in UK those topics lost their value about 20 years ago. US is behind Europe about 20 years.

we only have the most advanced healthcare technology. Not to mention the most advanced military in the world. Our military shits on the British Army. Our marine corps is larger than the entire British Army. Not to mention their training is superior to British military training. We also have a space program [which our commie president is trying to get rid of], we landed on the moon and we are cooler than British people. Most British immigrants here are the most liberal/looney people I have ever met. They also vote democrat and prove more and more why I should dislike them. I don't know why they wont just go back to England or some other commonwealth country just leave us alone. Look at Piers Morgan a total wack job British liberal.

[Longbowman]

[QUOTE]we only have the most advanced healthcare technology.

Sad our life expectancy is longer than yours even though our healthcare is over twice as cheap.


Not to mention the most advanced military in the world. Our military shits on the British Army. Our marine corps is larger than the entire British Army. Not to mention their training is superior to British military training.

I'm not sure how you measure 'superior' but the Royal Marines basic training is considerably longer than the USMC's.


We also have a space program [which our commie president is trying to get rid of], we landed on the moon and we are cooler than British people.

Hm :)

Europe does have a space programme, you know. But yes, you're the only ones to have landed on the moon. Speaking our language all the way, though!

Most British immigrants here are the most liberal/looney people I have ever met. They also vote democrat and prove more and more why I should dislike them. I don't know why they wont just go back to England or some other commonwealth country just leave us alone. Look at Piers Morgan a total wack job British liberal.

America is full of whack jobs that believe they have a God-given right to own a firearm. Thus, your firearms homicide rate is 13,500 a year to our 35 and your guns are fuelling the Mexical drug cartels' gang war.

It's good you're proud of your country, though. Don't let anyone take that away from you.

[Weedman]

I am a Jacobite and anti modern British Unionism. I hate Canada despite having some ancestry from there. Canada to me is lame except Quebec but I consider Quebec to be separate from English Canada. Yes New England which is the best 'England' to me. England died when they became British over the pond.

I don't have a celtic fetish....What's wrong with supporting Irish real culture not the culture of the thieves?:p I dislike how people rag on people who live in America for their roots. I don't hate all Anglo-Saxons but many of them to me are liberal pussies or anti Irish for whatever reason. My border riever heritage I am proud of as they were ant Scotland and anti England and anti Unonism. They became the modern Confederate Americans later on and fought against Lincoln treason.
you are very confused historically
you have border reiver heritage but hate the Ulster-Scots because they are thieves?, that makes ALOT of sense.........NOT!
especially since a whole lot of their ancestors were also Border Reivers.




as for you being a Jacobite......I hate to tell you this, but A: most border reivers were anything but.... and B: that deal ended back in 1745.
am pretty sure the Stuart Kings are long, long dead and gone.


and you do know a border reiver was in fact a thief. Hence the name Reiver/Raider.

[Caismeachd]

Americans have a big military but it sucks up your resources for other things which is why you have so many homeless people, prisoners drug problems etc. US military is quite a bad thing overall IMO and isn't something to be proud about when you have so much other social problems.

[LightHouse89]

[QUOTE=NormanDePoer;2223042]

Sad our life expectancy is longer than yours even though our healthcare is over twice as cheap.



I'm not sure how you measure 'superior' but the Royal Marines basic training is considerably longer than the USMC's.



Hm :)

Europe does have a space programme, you know. But yes, you're the only ones to have landed on the moon. Speaking our language all the way, though!


America is full of whack jobs that believe they have a God-given right to own a firearm. Thus, your firearms homicide rate is 13,500 a year to our 35 and your guns are fuelling the Mexical drug cartels' gang war.

It's good you're proud of your country, though. Don't let anyone take that away from you.

99% of gun related crime is from black people living in Chicago or New York city living the 'thug life'. Live by the sword and die by it so be it to me. Rural communities have every right to own fire arms, we will never give up that right despite what this communist dictator thinks. I am proud of New England I wish God would food california and those drug hippy states out west. They wouldn't be missed. I also dislike Washington DC and Maryland but it seems they would be needed to government the country. No to mention many historical sites which would be a tragedy if lost. The west coast isn't America to me. Only the East coast to me is North America.

[Celxon]

The most important topics of debate in US are god, guns, and gays

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Big Brother, the economy, and Obamacare are at the top of the list in the real America, as opposed to the caricature of it.

[LightHouse89]

Americans have a big military but it sucks up your resources for other things which is why you have so many homeless people, prisoners drug problems etc. US military is quite a bad thing overall IMO and isn't something to be proud about when you have so much other social problems.

we need a big military as the world cannot be trusted. Once we lower that the gooks will invade.

[LightHouse89]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Big Brother, the economy, and Obamacare are at the top of the list in the real America, as opposed to the caricature of it.

obamacare will destroy America. But what does a right wing American know of this? Well its so are a failure and proving that it was not put together properly. Maybe we should have adopted Mitt Romney's health care plan? He forced every citizen of my state to have health care and be provided by either the state, private etc..... You can get it through McDonalds for Christ sake as a peasant. I am not sure why he did not use how successful his healthcare plan was on Mass and apply it on a national level then everyone would have healthcare. The only issue with healthcare is being dropped once you become terminally ill or something...to me that is entirely unethical.

If Mitt Romney proposed that plan Obama and the Democrats would be dead in the water and we wouldn't be in a shitty situation like we are now with huge government spending on Africa, Middle East and the rest of the world. He will be remembered as one of the worst presidents in history next to Busch.

[Caismeachd]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Big Brother, the economy, and Obamacare are at the top of the list in the real America, as opposed to the caricature of it.

Is big brother really a big deal? In Norway the police have cameras everywhere and check people with metal detectors at the train stops to see if they are carrying a pocket knife. And most people here probably envy them. Norway is as close to 1984 than most European countries but the are also the most stable and crime free. US ways to do things to tackle criminality aren't the best. Maybe big brother works in smarter countries.

[Celxon]

I am a Jacobite and anti modern British Unionism. I hate Canada despite having some ancestry from there. Canada to me is lame except Quebec but I consider Quebec to be separate from English Canada. Yes New England which is the best 'England' to me. England died when they became British over the pond.

I don't have a celtic fetish....What's wrong with supporting Irish real culture not the culture of the thieves? I dislike how people rag on people who live in America for their roots. I don't hate all Anglo-Saxons but many of them to me are liberal pussies or anti Irish for whatever reason. My border riever heritage I am proud of as they were ant Scotland and anti England and anti Unonism. They became the modern Confederate Americans later on and fought against Lincoln treason.

I'd like to see a united Ireland too, but no side has totally clean hands in the history of the North. That includes some Border Reivers, who settled in Ulster, as well as some Native Irish who murdered hundreds of settlers. It's just not an either/or thing, as it's not that simplistic. As for the Confederates, they were comprised of more ethnicities than most people realize.

[Loki]

we need a big military as the world cannot be trusted. Once we lower that the gooks will invade.

The gooks are going to invade regardless. It's only a matter of time. America is fucked :D

[LightHouse89]

you have border reiver heritage but hate the Ulster-Scots because they are thieves?, that makes ALOT of sense...........NOT!

as for you being a Jacobite......I hate to tell you this, but A: most border reivers were anything but.... and B: that deal ended back in 1745.
am pretty sure the Stuart Kings are long, long dead and gone.


and you do know a border reiver was in fact a thief. Hence the name Reiver/Raider.

modern Northern Irish people are Scottish skirt wearing Protestants. Border Rievers have nothing in common with them. Well Border Rievers were not angels either but still much cooler to me than Northern fake Ulstermen. Real Ulster people are the catholics. They were there long before the arrival of Scottish thieves and English thieves. I think if anything the Scottish and owners were identity thieves and think they are Irish when they are not. They can call me a plastic European or a plastic this or that but the truth hurts them more than it does me.....they are plastic paddies. I suppose this argument is over identity and so this is why I am calling Northern Irish people fake Irish people. If they were Irish they wouldn't want to be apart of Britain. So they are plastic paddies to me.

[Loki]

obamacare will destroy America. But what does a right wing American know of this? Well its so are a failure and proving that it was not put together properly. Maybe we should have adopted Mitt Romney's health care plan? He forced every citizen of my state to have health care and be provided by either the state, private etc..... You can get it through McDonalds for Christ sake as a peasant. I am not sure why he did not use how successful his healthcare plan was on Mass and apply it on a national level then everyone would have healthcare. The only issue with healthcare is being dropped once you become terminally ill or something...to me that is entirely unethical.

If Mitt Romney proposed that plan Obama and the Democrats would be dead in the water and we wouldn't be in a shitty situation like we are now with huge government spending on Africa, Middle East and the rest of the world. He will be remembered as one of the worst presidents in history next to Busch.

Right wing America is evil.

[LightHouse89]

The gooks are going to invade regardless. It's only a matter of time. America is fucked :D

they will lose. We could have won Vietnam but liberal politicians in America did not want us using napalm anymore on poor North Vietnam. The Chinese would lose against us. We have superior technology, Japan and South Korea as an ally. The gooks are screwed.

[LightHouse89]

Right wing America is evil.

Right wing America is God's kingdom on Earth.

[Loki]

Right wing America is God's kingdom on Earth.

God does not exist.

[LightHouse89]

I'd like to see a united Ireland too, but no side has totally clean hands in the history of the North. That includes some Border Reivers, who settled in Ulster, as well as some Native Irish who murdered hundreds of settlers. It's just not an either/or thing, as it's not that simplistic. As for the Confederates, they were comprised of more ethnicities than most people realize.

If Protestants came out of the closet and said you know what I want Ireland to be separate but work with the British islands then I would change my opinion of them but until that day they are plastic paddies to me.

[LightHouse89]

God does not exist.

I believe in the super natural. Souls also exist. If you belief in nothing then what is the purpose of life itself? Nothing? I don't want to live in a communist world of nihilistic thinkers.

[Weedman]

Americans have a big military but it sucks up your resources for other things which is why you have so many homeless people, prisoners drug problems etc. US military is quite a bad thing overall IMO and isn't something to be proud about when you have so much other social problems.

most of our leading male politicians probably have small cocks.......hence the big, strong, powerful military to over compensate

[LightHouse89]

most of our leading male politicians probably have small cocks.......hence the big, strong, powerful military to over compensate

dude don't think for a second the world is trust worthy. They hate America and its fine with me but while we have the power we should keep it. If they fuck with us level their entire country back to the stone age. I dislike foreigner arrogance towards us.

[Loki]

I believe in the super natural. Souls also exist. If you belief in nothing then what is the purpose of life itself? Nothing? I don't want to live in a communist world of nihilistic thinkers.

Your profile:

Religion
god is dead

[Black Wolf]

You are a canuck jerkoff. Now go fuck a polar bear. I love it when the Bruins beat the Canucks I rejoice at it. I like seeing stupid Canadians cry about it on television.

Nah I would rather fuck an American woman. Sounds more like you were the one crying earlier about your ancestors in Ireland.

[Caismeachd]

I believe in the super natural. Souls also exist. If you belief in nothing then what is the purpose of life itself? Nothing? I don't want to live in a communist world of nihilistic thinkers.

Life without childish simpleton thinking is much more rewarding and multifaceted. The only limitation is yourself and the backwards beliefs you adhere too.

[Black Wolf]

Canadians are retarded rednecks. Arrogant too. Mostly the English area of Canada they copy America and even drive our cars. They are wanna be Americans and hate us for it.

We would never want to be a part of your nation. We have a much higher overall standard of living than you do.