Noses

[Oresai]

I have a question about noses. :D
I noticed in another thread about Aborigines in Australia, their noses are all broad and large, spread wider.
This morning I had on tv an Alan Titchmarsh programme on the Natural History of the British Isles. He was made up by the makeup experts into Neandetherall man, dressed in everyday clothes and walked the streets of London with barely a glance :D
When he was being made up, they applied a false nose, broad, flared nostrils, large.
They said it was because the nose of Neanderthal man was packed with sinuses to warm the cold air they had to breathe, like the Sega antelope which also roamed Scotland at one time, noted for it`s large nose.
They also said the Neanderthal brow ridge has totally disappeared in modern man.
But what about actors like Ron Perlman, noted for his large brow and, to me (probably niavely) Neanderthal like features?
And are those people today, with large, broad noses and wide nostrils, carrying the remnants of Neanderthal - like traits where the nose contained more sinuses to allow better survival in colder air?

[Treffie]

Physiologists have shown that narrow noses better warm the air being inhaled and prevent evaporation of water in such dry environments by recapturing moisture during exhalation. Wide noses dissipate heat very efficiently.

This is an interesting blog that I keep on my files, hope that this may answer your question.

http://anthropology.net/2008/10/17/neandertal-broad-noses-due-to-lower-face-prognathism/

[GUSTAVUS ADOLPHUS]

But what about actors like Ron Perlman, noted for his large brow and, to me (probably niavely) Neanderthal like features?
And are those people today, with large, broad noses and wide nostrils, carrying the remnants of Neanderthal - like traits where the nose contained more sinuses to allow better survival in colder air?

People that to me look like they have such noses are, like you said, people like Ron Perlman (Jew) and Negroes, Aborigines etc. People that live in a warm climate.

[Oresai]

Many thanks for your kind responses, though now I`m wondering if I should disregard the programme! Very confusing. Will read up on the matter, thanks too for the helpful link Sveyn :thumb001:

[Psychonaut]

And are those people today, with large, broad noses and wide nostrils, carrying the remnants of Neanderthal - like traits where the nose contained more sinuses to allow better survival in colder air?

As a quick aside, mtDNA studies (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/08/complete-neanderthal-mtdna-sequence.html) show that there was no breeding between Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals.

[TheGreatest]

As a quick aside, mtDNA studies (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/08/complete-neanderthal-mtdna-sequence.html) show that there was no breeding between Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals.


It's a nice theory but it would be comparable to living among a tribe of Gorillas. I can see there being rape and homicide. But for a half breed exist, that means a Neanderthal woman must had tolerated being a captive. And even then, in a time when the only competition was the struggle for survival, what tribe was going to support an alien? Take care of her?



Imagine you're an European woman on a Safari in Papua New Guinea. Your convoy is ambushed and everyone is killed, except you. The attackers were Bushmen, who have never seen technology before, and speak an intellible language of grunts and growls. They have no sense of European morals or concepts.
You're captured and constantly raped. You see the Natives making unusual faces at you, they might even be planning to cannibalize you!

Do you attempt an escape and get killed in the process?
Or do you remain a captive and await your faith?


http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2008/september/neanderthal-diet-like-early-modern-humans.html


Scientists identified which species the remains belonged to, and microscopic examination of cut and bite marks on the bones could reveal aspects of Neanderthal behaviour.

[Oresai]

I thought somewhere in caves in Portugal they had uncovered a hybrid skeleton, no? :confused: A child`s, if I remember right, Cro Magnon with definate Neanderthal traits. :) (sorry for no link, I will look and see if I can find the article)
I see your point about the prisoner issue, but also think it depends very much upon the individual, going on folks around today I know many many women who stay trapped in violent abusive marriages, for example, for many reasons, including shame, terror (when a jailor repeatedly confirms he can hunt you down, find and kill you should you go, you do tend to believe it in time!) and pragmatism...for example, would the captive female be able to feed herself if she ran, or any children, would she know enough to travel to a place of safety or, especially if she was deep in `enemy` territory, could she stay hidden enough for long enough,and would this be enough of a deterrent as to whether or not she escaped?

Books like those of Jean Auel don`t help matters, to be honest, romanticising relationships between the species and convincing a large swatch of her reading public due to the `research` she has done in French caves etc.
(She wrote The Mammoth Hunters, part of a series in which a Cro Magnon woman, raped by Neanderthals, gives birth to a hybrid and struggles to raise him among her own people)

[Odelia]

I don't think it's true that large noses were evolved for the cold climate...If thats so then how come black Africans and Australoids have very large noses!? In fact, noses get wider and broader as one moves to the equator! Indonesian and Filipinos have wider nostrils than the Chinese and Koreans. How can that be explained?

The OP is one of the first users in here it seems, is she still around?

[zebruh]

I don't think it's true that large noses were evolved for the cold climate...If thats so then how come black Africans and Australoids have very large noses!? In fact, noses get wider and broader as one moves to the equator! Indonesian and Filipinos have wider nostrils than the Chinese and Koreans. How can that be explained?

The OP is one of the first users in here it seems, is she still around?

The noses are flat because of that reason. Humid tropical climate.

Some southern chinese have flat noses.
Koreans? Never really heard of one with a flat nose.

Arabs dont have flat noses often because the desert air is not humid.

[Odelia]

The noses are flat because of that reason. Humid tropical climate.

Some southern chinese have flat noses.
Koreans? Never really heard of one with a flat nose.

Arabs dont have flat noses often because the desert air is not humid.
I know that. My post was a rhetorical question! I was responding to the OP's assertion that flat noses evolved in cold climates! When most people in the cold European climates have the most skinniest narrow noses.

I was told that Arabs and Jews have their long Semitic noses so that desert dust air can be filtered in it...which makes sense!