View Full Version : Actual Importance of Haplogroups
Boudin
06-11-2023, 07:16 PM
But there's a good chance you will guess where this person is from just by looking at the person's haplogroups.
Guess where I am from? R-Z16539
White Swan
06-11-2023, 08:14 PM
You all seem to know a lot about this, whereas I'm not so well versed in genetics. I'm curious if all races have about the same amount of variation in haplogroups or if there are any that have more variation than others? Thank you
Touijer
12-08-2023, 08:27 PM
Haplogroup deniers :picard1:
Tracing your paternal and maternal lineage and nothing else besides.
Haplogroup deniers :picard1:
As an R person. What do you think R men should look like?
Beowulf
12-08-2023, 08:47 PM
I need Katarzyna to participe in this thread and share her opinion about the importance of haplogroups!
Touijer
12-08-2023, 09:24 PM
As an R person. What do you think R men should look like?
It affects looks but around 20% so no distinctive look but to explain my point, it is not accurate to say that there is a distinctive R appearance, but the facts speak for themselves. The Y chromosome constitutes 2% of the entire genome, which implies that you share about 1.9% to 2% of your DNA with members of the same haplogroup, making you almost second cousins. You have thousands of mutations in common with people from your haplogroup, and blue eyes only require 2 mutations .
The Y chromosome has 58 million base pairs that contain no junk DNA. The SRY gene that determines male characteristics and activates testes has only 1000 base pairs, representing 0.01% of the Y chromosome itself. It is a very small gene, and some people assume that the rest is irrelevant. You share a common ancestor with others who belong to your haplogroup.
Ethnic nationalism is a fallacy, and it entails rejecting haplogroup. In the past, there were tribes and R1b was one of them. They originated from Central Asia and migrated to Western Europe. If they were not patriarchal and tribal, you would find many R1b’s in Slavic countries, which is not the case. They moved as a collective. Yamnayas, Bell Beakers were all patriarchal, so R1b reflects that. They intermarried with local women and had offspring, etc. So we can say that R1b is like a sort of “family” .
Those who claim that haplogroup is irrelevant are wrong. You can only make such a claim if you ignore the genetic similarities that you share with other members of your haplogroup, as the Original poster did, who is Jewish and only considers matrilineal descent. However, this does not hold for some haplogroups that were patriarchal. If you are a J1, you have a second cousin level of DNA with most J1’s.
An African American R1b is closer to a French R1b than a Swedish I1. Again they share the same grandfather, they have 2% in common making them close to second cousins and have multiple mutations in common. There’s no denying this. How much could the French share with the Swede? 0.01%? What’s the point of pca charts? People will claim well he’s R1b that doesn’t make him European or white, but of course it doesn’t. Because European and White mean nothing genetically and holds no weight. The African or Mexican R1b is closer to other R1b’s genetically like a type of family. Remove ethnic nationalism from the equation because it’s useless.
It affects looks but around 20% so no distinctive look but to explain my point, it is not accurate to say that there is a distinctive R appearance, but the facts speak for themselves. The Y chromosome constitutes 2% of the entire genome, which implies that you share about 1.9% to 2% of your DNA with members of the same haplogroup, making you almost second cousins. You have thousands of mutations in common with people from your haplogroup, and blue eyes only require 2 mutations .
The Y chromosome has 58 million base pairs that contain no junk DNA. The SRY gene that determines male characteristics and activates testes has only 1000 base pairs, representing 0.01% of the Y chromosome itself. It is a very small gene, and some people assume that the rest is irrelevant. You share a common ancestor with others who belong to your haplogroup.
Ethnic nationalism is a fallacy, and it entails rejecting haplogroup. In the past, there were tribes and R1b was one of them. They originated from Central Asia and migrated to Western Europe. If they were not patriarchal and tribal, you would find many R1b’s in Slavic countries, which is not the case. They moved as a collective. Yamnayas, Bell Beakers were all patriarchal, so R1b reflects that. They intermarried with local women and had offspring, etc. So we can say that R1b is like a sort of “family” .
Those who claim that haplogroup is irrelevant are wrong. You can only make such a claim if you ignore the genetic similarities that you share with other members of your haplogroup, as the Original poster did, who is Jewish and only considers matrilineal descent. However, this does not hold for some haplogroups that were patriarchal. If you are a J1, you have a second cousin level of DNA with most J1’s.
An African American R1b is closer to a French R1b than a Swedish I1. Again they share the same grandfather, they have 2% in common making them close to second cousins and have multiple mutations in common. There’s no denying this. How much could the French share with the Swede? 0.01%? What’s the point of pca charts? People will claim well he’s R1b that doesn’t make him European or white, but of course it doesn’t. Because European and White mean nothing genetically and holds no weight. The African or Mexican R1b is closer to other R1b’s genetically like a type of family. Remove ethnic nationalism from the equation because it’s useless.
Nice.
I need Katarzyna to participe in this thread and share her opinion about the importance of haplogroups!
She will just say that G is the best.
She will just say that G is the best.
G knows how to hit her G spot
It affects looks but around 20% so no distinctive look but to explain my point, it is not accurate to say that there is a distinctive R appearance, but the facts speak for themselves. The Y chromosome constitutes 2% of the entire genome, which implies that you share about 1.9% to 2% of your DNA with members of the same haplogroup, making you almost second cousins. You have thousands of mutations in common with people from your haplogroup, and blue eyes only require 2 mutations .
The Y chromosome has 58 million base pairs that contain no junk DNA. The SRY gene that determines male characteristics and activates testes has only 1000 base pairs, representing 0.01% of the Y chromosome itself. It is a very small gene, and some people assume that the rest is irrelevant. You share a common ancestor with others who belong to your haplogroup.
Ethnic nationalism is a fallacy, and it entails rejecting haplogroup. In the past, there were tribes and R1b was one of them. They originated from Central Asia and migrated to Western Europe. If they were not patriarchal and tribal, you would find many R1b’s in Slavic countries, which is not the case. They moved as a collective. Yamnayas, Bell Beakers were all patriarchal, so R1b reflects that. They intermarried with local women and had offspring, etc. So we can say that R1b is like a sort of “family” .
Those who claim that haplogroup is irrelevant are wrong. You can only make such a claim if you ignore the genetic similarities that you share with other members of your haplogroup, as the Original poster did, who is Jewish and only considers matrilineal descent. However, this does not hold for some haplogroups that were patriarchal. If you are a J1, you have a second cousin level of DNA with most J1’s.
An African American R1b is closer to a French R1b than a Swedish I1. Again they share the same grandfather, they have 2% in common making them close to second cousins and have multiple mutations in common. There’s no denying this. How much could the French share with the Swede? 0.01%? What’s the point of pca charts? People will claim well he’s R1b that doesn’t make him European or white, but of course it doesn’t. Because European and White mean nothing genetically and holds no weight. The African or Mexican R1b is closer to other R1b’s genetically like a type of family. Remove ethnic nationalism from the equation because it’s useless.
Pfffff.
In short, please European R1b people accept me as your own because I have R1b y-dna.
Here is a quotation which sums up the whole haplogroup thing.
"Haplogroups don't really have an effect on your immediate traits, really they just show an ancient ancestor in either your direct female lineage or male lineage. There are traits associated with haplogroups, simply because they were dominant in certain areas of the world. For example, the most common haplogroups in Europe are R1A and R1B, simply because thousands of years ago these were the dominant males who had the most children, and so on. They are direct male ancestors, from father to son, same goes for female haplogroups, which are inherited directly from mother to daughter. Hope that sort of helped your conception of haplogroups, and just to reiterate, haplogroups have no affect on your traits. Only your recent ancestors do, their autosomal DNA is the DNA you're looking for. For simplicity sake, you can just look at your recent family and see if they have similar traits, like hair color and other features."
She will just say that G is the best.
If G are so good. Why did I men replace them in Europe.
G knows how to hit her G spot
Wait a minute.. women don’t have a g spot!?!
An African American R1b is closer to a French R1b than a Swedish I1.
:rofl_002:
You blow Vjatych out of water in terms of trolling and being a circus clown. At least I am sure he doesn't deny dinosaurs existed.
If G are so good. Why did I men replace them in Europe.
Ask Katarzyna.
Ask Katarzyna.
No I obviously asked you.
No I obviously asked you.
I don't know. That's why I said ask Katarzyna.
Touijer
12-08-2023, 10:53 PM
:rofl_002:
You blow Vjatych out of water in terms of trolling and being a circus clown. At least I am sure he doesn't deny dinosaurs existed.
Denying facts? What are your arguments? You have none.
Most haplogroup deniers are either clueless, women or hate their haplogroup for some reason
The fact is you are close to second cousins and share close to 2% with everyone in your haplogroup, share the same grandfathers.
The African and French R1b's I mentioned come from the same tribe or family which was patriarchal. I don’t know about your haplogroup but that’s the case here and even if it wasn’t patriarchal genetically they are very close to each other like cousins. You can’t deny that. Which brings me back to my main point:
A French R1b is closer to an African-American R1b than to a Swedish I1. Your country has like 9 haplogroups so of course you’re denying since you don’t want to break the fragile Turkish nationalistic identity which is recent and has no weight .
https://i.postimg.cc/gc8Xk1zg/IMG-0485.jpg
Katarzyna
12-08-2023, 11:07 PM
Just because something is less spread doesn’t mean it’s good. Quality over quantity. When I talk about which haplogroup is best I talk about who subjectively fits for me as a partner to breed with.
Of course Y-haplogroups only carry an insignificant amount of DNA but they are still very special because the Y-chromosome is very special. Unlike the other chromosomes it doesn’t recombine much during the meiosis and therefore haplogroups can be traced back many generations. I think reproduction is one of the ultimative goals of life and keeping your bloodline alive. So as a woman you have to choose your partner’s haplogroup wisely. While the autosomal dna can be washed out after just a couple of generations, the Y-DNA can linger for very long. That’s how Finnish people share their haplogroup N with northern Asians while their autosomal DNA is almost fully European. Because those N-males married white women for generations but yet.. their Y chromosome remains
So I want to give my bloodline a meaningful haplogroup and I think that R1a, R1b and N can’t really satisfy it.
Denying facts? What are your arguments? You have none.
Most haplogroup deniers are either clueless, women or hate their haplogroup for some reason
The fact is you are close to second cousins and share close to 2% with everyone in your haplogroup, share the same grandfathers.
The African and French R1b's I mentioned come from the same tribe or family which was patriarchal. I don’t know about your haplogroup but that’s the case here and even if it wasn’t patriarchal genetically they are very close to each other like cousins. You can’t deny that. Which brings me back to my main point:
A French R1b is closer to an African-American R1b than to a Swedish I1. Your country has like 9 haplogroups so of course you’re denying since you don’t want to break the fragile Turkish nationalistic identity which is recent and has no weight .
https://i.postimg.cc/gc8Xk1zg/IMG-0485.jpg
Am I, a Cushite J2, closer to a Nakh J2 than a Cushite E-M78?
My Y-DNA (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FT212821/) & Nakh Y-DNA (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y3620/)
Cushite E-M78 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/)
Clearly I’m closer to Nakh peoples in paternal ancestry. But how did that happen? Why so rare? :shy:
mashail
12-09-2023, 12:25 AM
Am I, a Cushite J2, closer to a Nakh J2 than a Cushite E-M78?
My Y-DNA (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-FT212821/) & Nakh Y-DNA (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y3620/)
Cushite E-M78 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/)
Clearly I’m closer to Nakh peoples in paternal ancestry. But how did that happen? Why so rare? :shy:
what ik for sure that j2 isn't African its native middle eastern haplogroup very common among levantines\kurds\assyrians\jewish\persians\ even in arabia it is the largest haplogroup after j1.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 12:33 AM
Just because something is less spread doesn’t mean it’s good. Quality over quantity. When I talk about which haplogroup is best I talk about who subjectively fits for me as a partner to breed with.
Of course Y-haplogroups only carry an insignificant amount of DNA but they are still very special because the Y-chromosome is very special. Unlike the other chromosomes it doesn’t recombine much during the meiosis and therefore haplogroups can be traced back many generations. I think reproduction is one of the ultimative goals of life and keeping your bloodline alive. So as a woman you have to choose your partner’s haplogroup wisely. While the autosomal dna can be washed out after just a couple of generations, the Y-DNA can linger for very long. That’s how Finnish people share their haplogroup N with northern Asians while their autosomal DNA is almost fully European. Because those N-males married white women for generations but yet.. their Y chromosome remains
So I want to give my bloodline a meaningful haplogroup and I think that R1a, R1b and N can’t really satisfy it.
i remove my compliment, I don’t agree with anything you say
Denying facts? What are your arguments? You have none.
Most haplogroup deniers are either clueless, women or hate their haplogroup for some reason
The fact is you are close to second cousins and share close to 2% with everyone in your haplogroup, share the same grandfathers.
The African and French R1b's I mentioned come from the same tribe or family which was patriarchal. I don’t know about your haplogroup but that’s the case here and even if it wasn’t patriarchal genetically they are very close to each other like cousins. You can’t deny that. Which brings me back to my main point:
A French R1b is closer to an African-American R1b than to a Swedish I1. Your country has like 9 haplogroups so of course you’re denying since you don’t want to break the fragile Turkish nationalistic identity which is recent and has no weight .
https://i.postimg.cc/gc8Xk1zg/IMG-0485.jpg
Haplogroups themselves don't make up a percentage of your genes, but they provide insights into the genetic variations and ancestry of specific lineages. Your %2 seems bs.
My haplogroup is probably J2. Nevertheless, I need to wait at least two months to actually find out that. Abti can confirm that we will never consider ourselves as cousins and we are not.
what ik for sure that j2 isn't African its native middle eastern haplogroup very common among levantines\kurds\assyrians\jewish\persians\ even in arabia it is the largest haplogroup after j1.
I wouldn’t call a frequency between 10 & 20% J2 common for most of those ethnic groups besides native Levantine peoples who get 35% or more in J2. J-M172 has a deep affinity for the Transcaucasian sphere.
Haplogroups themselves don't make up a percentage of your genes, but they provide insights into the genetic variations and ancestry of specific lineages. Your %2 seems bs.
My haplogroup is probably J2. Nevertheless, I need to wait at least two months to actually find out that. Abti can confirm that we will never consider ourselves as cousins and we are not.
You give me R1a vibes just like your friend Demarkazik.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 12:43 AM
Your %2 seems bs.
So from the 3 categories I previously brought up, you fit in the clueless category.
Y Chromosome is 2% of your entire genome, and you share all of it with your father, the same mutations the same chromosome, the same chromosome which has no junk dna.
And if you turn out J2, depending on the subclade and number of mutations I’m happy to tell you that, you will indeed be cousins with Abti and he’ll be closest genetically to you than 70% of your fellow countryman. You’re grandfather will be the same as Abti’s grandfather while sharing around 1.9% genetically making you cousins.
You give me R1a vibes just like your friend Demarkazik.
People from my hometown turned out to be predominantly J2. We will see about that anyway. There is nothing certain. R1a-z93 is also possible for me. Demirkazık have slavic R1a. His tree is full of Russians. He is a Balkan (Bulgaria) Turk.
People from my hometown turned out to be predominantly J2. We will see about that anyway. There is nothing certain. R1a-z93 is also possible for me. Demirkazık have slavic R1a. His tree is full of Russians. He is a Balkan (Bulgaria) Turk.
Where did you get tested? Have you taken any autosomal tests?
Where did you get tested? Have you taken any autosomal tests?
I am waiting for my FTDNA (Family Finder) kit to arrive. Currently it's being inspected at customs.
I am waiting for my FTDNA (Family Finder) kit to arrive. Currently it's being inspected at customs.
You know it takes a month to get your results, right? If you weren’t a Low IQ Turk you would have done AncestryDNA for 50$ on the holidays and get your results within 2 weeks to get the raw data. Shame.
You know it takes a month to get your results, right? If you weren’t a Low IQ Turk you would have done AncestryDNA for 50$ on the holidays and get your results within 2 weeks to get the raw data. Shame.
There are negative reviews regarding AncestryDNA from Turkey, and I already paid 49$ for this test.
Apparently, if you have an IQ score between 55 and 69 you will be labeled as having "mild mental disability " and according to google, the average Ethiopian has an IQ of 68, so is Ethiopia a nation full of retards and mentally disabled people? Because from my experience with you, it seems so.
black hole
12-09-2023, 09:29 AM
R1a is predominant among Russians, Poles, Belorusians, Czechs, Indo-Aryans, Afghan peoples, Turkic peoples (Siberia and Central Asia), partly Germans and Norwegians.
J2a is predominant among Greeks, Italians, Levantines, Nakh peoples, Jewish peoples, Armenians, Persians and partly Georgians.
R1a is predominant among Russians, Poles, Belorusians, Czechs, Indo-Aryans, Afghan peoples, Turkic peoples (Siberia and Central Asia), partly Germans and Norwegians.
J2a is predominant among Greeks, Italians, Levantines, Nakh peoples, Jewish peoples, Armenians, Persians and partly Georgians.
Italians, Jews (despite what they say), Armenians & Greeks are clearly predominantly R1b not J. Come on now. I have like 30 sources.
So I want to give my bloodline a meaningful haplogroup and I think that R1a, R1b and N can’t really satisfy it.
Do you like I1?
Petalpusher
12-09-2023, 10:18 AM
Haplogroups are men's astrology.
Change my mind.
Haplogroups are men's astrology.
Change my mind.
Plus it is very real.
Thracian
12-09-2023, 10:31 AM
At least I know very well somewhere in the history, my direct paternal ancestors were living in region modern Poland-Ukraine and migrated Balkans and mixed with Balkan native women. Then, mixed with Turkic women. Unlike some people claimed Turks mixed with enslaved Balkan women.
Katarzyna
12-09-2023, 10:35 AM
Do you like I1?
Yes, I do.
Yes, I do.
The Northern European haplogroup. You have to find a man with an Arabic harlogroup - G, J
The Northern European haplogroup. You have to find a man with an Arabic harlogroup - G, J
G is Caucasian.
Feiichy
12-09-2023, 10:52 AM
G is Caucasian.
I would call J actual Caucasian haplogroup by origin, and G Anatolian.
E is actual Afrosemitic haplogroup by origin.
I would call J actual Caucasian haplogroup by origin, and G Anatolian.
E is actual Afrosemitic haplogroup by origin.
G is West Asian for sure but J originated in Middle East.
“Haplogroup J originated approximately 42.6 kya (95% CI: 30.0–64.7), with several of its earliest branches being found within the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa. J1b was found most frequently in the Near East and Arabian Peninsula, while J1c occurred most frequently in Europe.”
Katarzyna
12-09-2023, 11:05 AM
The Northern European haplogroup. You have to find a man with an Arabic harlogroup - G, J
I can also go for I2, common in Southern Poland, Ukraine and northern Balkans. My first boyfriend was Western Ukrainian (Carpatho Rusyn) and I2 and they are a real powerhouse.
Feiichy
12-09-2023, 11:06 AM
G is West Asian for sure but J originated in Middle East.
“Haplogroup J originated approximately 42.6 kya (95% CI: 30.0–64.7), with several of its earliest branches being found within the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa. J1b was found most frequently in the Near East and Arabian Peninsula, while J1c occurred most frequently in Europe.”
Well from what I read both J1 and J2 spread south from Caucasus togheder with CHG admixture. Maybe oldest J is middle eastern/Mesopotamian but as far as I am aware those J1s and J2s came from Caucasus. They are just very common in modern middle east.
Modern Arabs have significant CHG admixture btw.
E on the other hand is less common in modern MENA but should be original Afro-Asiatic marker. It emigrated to Africa from near East.
black hole
12-09-2023, 11:07 AM
Italians, Jews (despite what they say), Armenians & Greeks are clearly predominantly R1b not J. Come on now. I have like 30 sources.
Nonsense. Nowadays Italians, Jews, Armenians and Greeks who carry happlogroup J2 are true Italians, Jews, Armenians and Greeks. R1b together with R1a are steppe invaders. Their percentage maybe not significant compared to R1b, but the truth still remains. Mediterranean and Middle Eastern civilisations Phoenicians, Hattians, Etruscans, Minoans, Hurrians, and ancient Israelites were J2. It really makes sense. So were Romans.
Feiichy
12-09-2023, 11:07 AM
I can also go for I2, common in Southern Poland, Ukraine and northern Balkans. My first boyfriend was Western Ukrainian (Carpatho Rusyn) and I2 and they are a real powerhouse.
Aren't you paternally I2 too? Than you would stay in your tribe :)
Feiichy
12-09-2023, 11:08 AM
Nonsense. Nowadays Italians, Jews, Armenians and Greeks who carry happlogroup J2 are true Italians, Jews, Armenians and Greeks. R1b are steppe invaders. Their percentage maybe not significant compared to R1b, but the truth still remains. Mediterranean and Middle Eastern civilisations Phoenicians, Hattians, Etruscans, Minoans, Hurrians, and ancient Israelites were J2. It really makes sense. So were Romans.
Proto-Italics and proto-Armenians or people who carried Greek language were all R1b.
G is West Asian for sure but J originated in Middle East.
“Haplogroup J originated approximately 42.6 kya (95% CI: 30.0–64.7), with several of its earliest branches being found within the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa. J1b was found most frequently in the Near East and Arabian Peninsula, while J1c occurred most frequently in Europe.”
The date of when this was published?
Katarzyna
12-09-2023, 11:10 AM
Aren't you paternally I2 too? Than you would stay in your tribe :)
Yes, I am. So me and my Ukrainian ex were both I2 and both Slavs. Nice match :)
black hole
12-09-2023, 11:15 AM
Proto-Italics and proto-Armenians or people who carried Greek language were all R1b.
Etruscans > proto-Italics, Hurrians > proto-Armenians, Minoans > proto-Greeks. J is originally from Mesopotamia, J2 probably formed in Caucasus and J1 formed somewhere in Zagros. These genetic things are still debatable among modern scientists. R1b is originally from Siberia which is very common in the modern western European people
Nonsense. Nowadays Italians, Jews, Armenians and Greeks who carry happlogroup J2 are true Italians, Jews, Armenians and Greeks. R1b together with R1a are steppe invaders. Their percentage maybe not significant compared to R1b, but the truth still remains. Mediterranean and Middle Eastern civilisations Phoenicians, Hattians, Etruscans, Minoans, Hurrians, and ancient Israelites were J2. It really makes sense. So were Romans.
The most middle eastern Jews today are R1a. Haha.
https://i.imgur.com/5Jsgj9z.jpg
Etruscans > proto-Italics, Hurrians > proto-Armenians, Minoans > proto-Greeks. J is originally from Mesopotamia, J2 probably formed in Caucasus and J1 formed somewhere in Zagros. These genetic things are still debatable among modern scientists. R1b is originally from Siberia which is very common in the modern western European people
J is from Europe.
kingmob
12-09-2023, 11:27 AM
Etruscans > proto-Italics, Hurrians > proto-Armenians, Minoans > proto-Greeks. J is originally from Mesopotamia, J2 probably formed in Caucasus and J1 formed somewhere in Zagros. These genetic things are still debatable among modern scientists. R1b is originally from Siberia which is very common in the modern western European people
The substratum of modern Armenian is indeed part-Hurrian, and for Greeks it's Pelasgian or Minoan if you like, but both the languages are Yamnaya ones (direct not via Corded Ware intermediate), the carriers of the Armenic and Hellenic languages were those R-L584*s for Armenians and R-PF7562/3*s for Greek. Those R1bs mixed with the local substratums and produced the end result of what you call BA Armenian and Greek speakers.
After Southern Arc, it's beyond the shadow of doubt.
kingmob
12-09-2023, 11:29 AM
Also, haplogroups for men especially are extremely important for geneology tracing, since autosomals get washed out entirely in 10 generations.
You get 50% from your parent, 25% grandparent, 12.5% great-grandparent ... and so on, you have 0% autosomals from your 11th ancestor.
But what connects you to him and proves you are his descendant is your Y-chr.
The substratum of modern Armenian is indeed part-Hurrian, and for Greeks it's Pelasgian or Minoan if you like, but both the languages are Yamnaya ones (direct not via Corded Ware intermediate), the carriers of the Armenic and Hellenic languages were those R-L584*s for Armenians and R-PF7562/3*s for Greek. Those R1bs mixed with the local substratums and produced the end result of what you call BA Armenian and Greek speakers.
After Southern Arc, it's beyond the shadow of doubt.
By the way, the Armenians practically do not have the Pit component. 0 - 3%.
black hole
12-09-2023, 11:51 AM
J is from Europe.
Can you provide an authentic source?
The substratum of modern Armenian is indeed part-Hurrian, and for Greeks it's Pelasgian or Minoan if you like, but both the languages are Yamnaya ones (direct not via Corded Ware intermediate), the carriers of the Armenic and Hellenic languages were those R-L584*s for Armenians and R-PF7562/3*s for Greek. Those R1bs mixed with the local substratums and produced the end result of what you call BA Armenian and Greek speakers.
After Southern Arc, it's beyond the shadow of doubt.
You mean R1b were in Greece way before J2a carriers came during migration from west Asia? Greeks have a large diversity of Y-DNA haplogroups, and according to the test results, their predominant haplogroups are E-V13 and J2a equally
Mortimer
12-09-2023, 11:53 AM
I think it is important but autosomal is important too both in combination and with your known ancestry first and foremost
Voskos
12-09-2023, 11:58 AM
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PT_7tVw-vFA/VIXwnXn0QNI/AAAAAAAAD3c/UoZn6tQ1zCQ/s1600/Armenia.JPG
Scandal
12-09-2023, 11:59 AM
Haplogroups are men's astrology.
Change my mind.
Looking at the fanatic y-dna lovers in this thread, it is worse than astrology.
Scandal
12-09-2023, 12:00 PM
Also, haplogroups for men especially are extremely important for geneology tracing, since autosomals get washed out entirely in 10 generations.
You get 50% from your parent, 25% grandparent, 12.5% great-grandparent ... and so on, you have 0% autosomals from your 11th ancestor.
But what connects you to him and proves you are his descendant is your Y-chr.
The reality is that I (as a Hungarian person) share way more DNA with random Hungarian individuals of whatever haplogroup than with an Englishman who shares my haplogroup.
Scandal
12-09-2023, 12:05 PM
It affects looks but around 20% so no distinctive look but to explain my point, it is not accurate to say that there is a distinctive R appearance, but the facts speak for themselves. The Y chromosome constitutes 2% of the entire genome, which implies that you share about 1.9% to 2% of your DNA with members of the same haplogroup, making you almost second cousins. You have thousands of mutations in common with people from your haplogroup, and blue eyes only require 2 mutations .
The Y chromosome has 58 million base pairs that contain no junk DNA. The SRY gene that determines male characteristics and activates testes has only 1000 base pairs, representing 0.01% of the Y chromosome itself. It is a very small gene, and some people assume that the rest is irrelevant. You share a common ancestor with others who belong to your haplogroup.
Ethnic nationalism is a fallacy, and it entails rejecting haplogroup. In the past, there were tribes and R1b was one of them. They originated from Central Asia and migrated to Western Europe. If they were not patriarchal and tribal, you would find many R1b’s in Slavic countries, which is not the case. They moved as a collective. Yamnayas, Bell Beakers were all patriarchal, so R1b reflects that. They intermarried with local women and had offspring, etc. So we can say that R1b is like a sort of “family” .
Those who claim that haplogroup is irrelevant are wrong. You can only make such a claim if you ignore the genetic similarities that you share with other members of your haplogroup, as the Original poster did, who is Jewish and only considers matrilineal descent. However, this does not hold for some haplogroups that were patriarchal. If you are a J1, you have a second cousin level of DNA with most J1’s.
An African American R1b is closer to a French R1b than a Swedish I1. Again they share the same grandfather, they have 2% in common making them close to second cousins and have multiple mutations in common. There’s no denying this. How much could the French share with the Swede? 0.01%? What’s the point of pca charts? People will claim well he’s R1b that doesn’t make him European or white, but of course it doesn’t. Because European and White mean nothing genetically and holds no weight. The African or Mexican R1b is closer to other R1b’s genetically like a type of family. Remove ethnic nationalism from the equation because it’s useless.
Denying facts? What are your arguments? You have none.
Most haplogroup deniers are either clueless, women or hate their haplogroup for some reason
The fact is you are close to second cousins and share close to 2% with everyone in your haplogroup, share the same grandfathers.
The African and French R1b's I mentioned come from the same tribe or family which was patriarchal. I don’t know about your haplogroup but that’s the case here and even if it wasn’t patriarchal genetically they are very close to each other like cousins. You can’t deny that. Which brings me back to my main point:
A French R1b is closer to an African-American R1b than to a Swedish I1. Your country has like 9 haplogroups so of course you’re denying since you don’t want to break the fragile Turkish nationalistic identity which is recent and has no weight .
https://i.postimg.cc/gc8Xk1zg/IMG-0485.jpg
Propaganda and lies. A swedish R is genetically far closer to a Swedish I than an African-American R. People who have your haplogroup aren't your second cousins. You are talking about that "magical 2%", but you are ignoring the 98%. In we are comparing a Swedish R to a Swedish I, that 2% may be different but the remaining 98% is very similar. I share way more DNA with my second cousins (whatever their HG is) than with random people from the other side of the world matching my HG.
Mortimer
12-09-2023, 12:05 PM
The reality is that I (as a Hungarian person) share way more DNA with random Hungarian individuals of whatever haplogroup than with an Englishman who shares my haplogroup.
Does not matter because there are subclades too and typically your subclades would be hungarian if your ancestor is not actually an english man also it is different type of importance but both carries informations about you and you can easier interpret it if you know your ancestry and you are not adopted
The date of when this was published?
https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29.html#google_vignette
Scandal
12-09-2023, 12:08 PM
Just because something is less spread doesn’t mean it’s good. Quality over quantity. When I talk about which haplogroup is best I talk about who subjectively fits for me as a partner to breed with.
Of course Y-haplogroups only carry an insignificant amount of DNA but they are still very special because the Y-chromosome is very special. Unlike the other chromosomes it doesn’t recombine much during the meiosis and therefore haplogroups can be traced back many generations. I think reproduction is one of the ultimative goals of life and keeping your bloodline alive. So as a woman you have to choose your partner’s haplogroup wisely. While the autosomal dna can be washed out after just a couple of generations, the Y-DNA can linger for very long. That’s how Finnish people share their haplogroup N with northern Asians while their autosomal DNA is almost fully European. Because those N-males married white women for generations but yet.. their Y chromosome remains
So I want to give my bloodline a meaningful haplogroup and I think that R1a, R1b and N can’t really satisfy it.
What characteristics do I carriers have that R and N carriers lack?
Propaganda and lies. A swedish R is genetically far closer to a Swedish I than an African-American R. People who have your haplogroup aren't second cousins. You are talking about that "magical 2%", but you are missing the 98%. In we are comparing a Swedish R to a Swedish I, that 2% may be different but the remaining 98% is very similar. I share way more DNA with my second cousins (whatever their HG is) than with random people from the other side of the world matching my HG.
Don’t waste your time with him. He believes earth is flat and dinasours didn’t exist. He’s either a troll or extremely retarded.
Feiichy
12-09-2023, 12:12 PM
we're having fun, dude.
https://media.tenor.com/8zETKsmcDDwAAAAC/joker-why-so-serious.gif
Scandal
12-09-2023, 12:18 PM
Does not matter because there are subclades too and typically your subclades would be hungarian if your ancestor is not actually an english man also it is different type of importance but both carries informations about you and you can easier interpret it if you know your ancestry and you are not adopted
If the Englishman has my subclade but is autosomally English then I'm still genetically more similar to random Hungarian, Slovak, Slovenian, Croatian etc people than to that English man matching my HG.
Petalpusher
12-09-2023, 12:45 PM
Propaganda and lies. A swedish R is genetically far closer to a Swedish I than an African-American R. People who have your haplogroup aren't your second cousins. You are talking about that "magical 2%", but you are ignoring the 98%. In we are comparing a Swedish R to a Swedish I, that 2% may be different but the remaining 98% is very similar. I share way more DNA with my second cousins (whatever their HG is) than with random people from the other side of the world matching my HG.
Also a little reminder that we are also made of many men (and women) of possibly very different haplogoups than what we display. For example anyone knows his maternal grandfather's Y? Could be anything... or his paternal grandmother mt? Yet they are as important in our lineage both autosomally and genealogically.
Even on some emotionnal level i find it wrong. I had a much better relationship with my maternal grandfather than paternal who i have seen maybe 5 times in my life. Both of their lineages leaded equally to me, there s no reason for, at least, one to be minimized over the other, or our female lineages too for that matter. Even as a toxic male i find it outrageous and silly.
Haplos are fun and useful for population history, but many have an hemiplegic view of them.
kingmob
12-09-2023, 12:55 PM
Can you provide an authentic source?
You mean R1b were in Greece way before J2a carriers came during migration from west Asia? Greeks have a large diversity of Y-DNA haplogroups, and according to the test results, their predominant haplogroups are E-V13 and J2a equally
R1bs came to Greece in the BA, Myceneans carry R-PF7562/3. Anatolian-related peoples were already there and consist of the aforementioned substratum.
Mortimer
12-09-2023, 12:56 PM
If the Englishman has my subclade but is autosomally English then I'm still genetically more similar to random Hungarian, Slovak, Slovenian, Croatian etc people than to that English man matching my HG.
Im not arguing you would be more similar to the english man im saying both carries certain informations about you and history
kingmob
12-09-2023, 12:59 PM
By the way, the Armenians practically do not have the Pit component. 0 - 3%.
They are higher in qpAdm fstats.
Regardless, their R1b lineages have persevered from their BA ancestors.
Mortimer
12-09-2023, 01:02 PM
Also a little reminder that we are also made of many men (and women) of possibly very different haplogoups than what we display. For example anyone knows his maternal grandfather's Y? Could be anything... or his paternal grandmother mt? Yet they are as important in our lineage both autosomally and genealogically.
Even on some emotionnal level i find it wrong. I had a much better relationship with my maternal grandfather than paternal who i have seen maybe 5 times in my life. Both of their lineages leaded equally to me, there s no reason for, at least, one to be minimized over the other, or our female lineages too for that matter. Even as a toxic male i find it outrageous and silly.
Haplos are fun and useful for population history, but many have an hemiplegic view of them.
Yes that is equally important and carries more informations about your family history im not arguing from a toxic male perspective or that haplogroups solely define your race but it is also not true that they tell nothing they can reveal deep origins a white man with native american hg could reveal distant native ancestorI for example i find the whole debate silly anyways
kingmob
12-09-2023, 01:02 PM
The reality is that I (as a Hungarian person) share way more DNA with random Hungarian individuals of whatever haplogroup than with an Englishman who shares my haplogroup.
I am talking archaeo-genetics and how you can trace migrations through haplogroups.
I am not interested in ethno-centric pissing contests.
By all means, you can be related to mickey mouse more for all I care.
Scandal
12-09-2023, 01:04 PM
I am talking archaeo-genetics and how you can trace migrations through haplogroups.
I am not interested in ethno-centric pissing contests.
By all means, you can be related to mickey mouse more for all I care.
Stating you're sharing more DNA with x than y is stating the reality, not ethnocentrism.
kingmob
12-09-2023, 01:05 PM
Stating you're sharing more DNA with x than to y is stating the reality, not ethnocentrism.
I suggest you re-read my posts carefully.
kingmob
12-09-2023, 01:08 PM
Yes that is equally important and carries more informations about your family history im not arguing from a toxic male perspective or that haplogroups solely define your race but it is also not true that they tell nothing they can reveal deep origins a white man with native american hg could reveal distant native ancestorI for example i find the whole debate silly anyways
Focusing on y-chr is not 'toxic male perspective', it's solely due to the fact that it mutates really fast producing further subclades and thus can be used to trace detailed pathways of migrations throughout the span of history.
Mortimer
12-09-2023, 01:11 PM
Focusing on y-chr is not 'toxic male perspective', it's solely due to the fact that it mutates really fast producing further subclades and thus can be used to trace detailed pathways of migrations throughout the span of history.
Im not personally saying it is but some think it is or that it is about
Touijer
12-09-2023, 03:58 PM
The reality is that I (as a Hungarian person) share way more DNA with random Hungarian individuals of whatever haplogroup than with an Englishman who shares my haplogroup.
No you don’t. Everyone keeps saying “The reality is I share more” well show us proof then? It’s good to talk but you need proof instead of talking randomly.
I’ll save you time here is the proof. You share 2% of your entire genome with other members of your haplogroup while you barely barely share 0.001 with your Hungarian buddies. Your haplogroup cousins are closer to you than 3rd cousins and above, let alone your countrymen. That’s only talking genetically let alone talking about ancestors, mutations and etc.
Autosomal warriors are funny. Ethnic nationalism is absolute nonsense.
Now I’m waiting for you to show me the evidence you are more related to a Hungarian neighbour then your cousins
Scandal
12-09-2023, 04:00 PM
No you don’t. Everyone keeps saying “The reality is I share more” well show us proof then? It’s good to talk but you need proof instead of talking randomly.
I’ll save you time here is the proof. You share 2% of your entire genome with other members of your haplogroup while you barely barely share 0.001 with your Hungarian buddies. Your haplogroup cousins are closer to you than 3rd cousins and above, let alone your countrymen. That’s only talking genetically let alone talking about ancestors, mutations and etc.
Autosomal warriors are funny.
Now I’m waiting for you to show me the evidence you are more related to a Hungarian neighbour then your cousins
So where's your proof.
Ethnic nationalism is absolute nonsense.
So why is it more popular than your haplo-nationalism
Scandal
12-09-2023, 04:05 PM
My haplo-cousins are not closer to me than my 3rd cousins, that's something you made up because it ifts into your y-dna propaganda.
You're stupid for focusing on that 2%. Why are you ignoring the remaining 98%?
Touijer
12-09-2023, 04:08 PM
Propaganda and lies. A swedish R is genetically far closer to a Swedish I than an African-American R. People who have your haplogroup aren't your second cousins. You are talking about that "magical 2%", but you are ignoring the 98%. In we are comparing a Swedish R to a Swedish I, that 2% may be different but the remaining 98% is very similar. I share way more DNA with my second cousins (whatever their HG is) than with random people from the other side of the world matching my HG.
The remaining 98% is similar? Are you serious???????? Even your mother is only 50% similar to you so a random I1 Swede is more related to a R1b Swede than his mother? I’ve read many silly things here but I think this tops it.
You share only 12% with a first cousin and 0.7% with a third cousin.
Today I learned that a Swedish I1 is more related to a Swedish R1b than his own mom. Very fascinating.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 04:10 PM
My haplo-cousins are not closer to me than my 3rd cousins, that's something you made up because it ifts into your y-dna propaganda. You're stupid for focusing on that 2%. Why are you ignoring the remaining 98%?
Haplo-cousins? They’re your cousins and with more impact
What is the remaining 98%? You tell me. You share 50% of that with your parents, siblings and 12.5% with your first cousin. I really am curious where you think that the 98% means a Swedish neighbor??
Katarzyna
12-09-2023, 04:17 PM
I ordered during Black Friday 4 y haplogroup tests. For all my future boyfriends who will come along. And ofc some male friends
Mopi The Dire Wolf
12-09-2023, 04:40 PM
I ordered during Black Friday 4 y haplogroup tests. For all my future boyfriends who will come along. And ofc some male friends
Is R1b unacceptable to you :(
Katarzyna
12-09-2023, 04:48 PM
Is R1b unacceptable to you :(
It’s not unacceptable. But more of I’m kinda put off by the idea that most Europeans were fathered by only a handful steppe men. I’m sure that they feel the biggest ego boost now- that their bloodlines are still alive (I believe in life after death). And I just don’t want to give them that satisfaction.
But then again. If I really love a guy I can definitively deal with his R1b. But not with haplogroup N. Under no circumstances would I date someone who is N. No offence, it’s just not my thing.
Defcon2
12-09-2023, 04:58 PM
Haplo-cousins? They’re your cousins and with more impact
What is the remaining 98%? You tell me. You share 50% of that with your parents, siblings and 12.5% with your first cousin. I really am curious where you think that the 98% means a Swedish neighbor??
Where do you get that by sharing a haplogroup you are already 2% similar to him?
I only share 0.9% of my closest non-family relationship, I can see it in the DNA matches of commercial companies. Most are 0.5% or below.
I also share 7.7% with my father's first cousin and she is by far the one with whom I share the most DNA.
Scandal
12-09-2023, 05:06 PM
The remaining 98% is similar? Are you serious???????? Even your mother is only 50% similar to you so a random I1 Swede is more related to a R1b Swede than his mother? I’ve read many silly things here but I think this tops it.
You share only 12% with a first cousin and 0.7% with a third cousin.
Today I learned that a Swedish I1 is more related to a Swedish R1b than his own mom. Very fascinating.
People tend to share more DNA with people who come from the same ethnic/racial background than with people who come from different background. That's why they tend look more similar to each other than to people from other backgrounds (similar looks are result of shared DNA). This is quite obvious when you compare Swedes to Nigerians and not so obvious when you compare Swedes to Germans because the genetic distance is lower in that case. It's ridiculous that you focus on that 2% but ignore the 98%. That I share less DNA with my 3rd cousins than with a black man who has the same HG as me, is just your personal idea.
Scandal
12-09-2023, 05:26 PM
2002, different times: https://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/20/us/gene-study-identifies-5-main-human-populations-linking-them-to-geography.html
Scientists studying the DNA of 52 human groups from around the world have concluded that people belong to five principal groups corresponding to the major geographical regions of the world: Africa, Europe, Asia, Melanesia and the Americas.
The study, based on scans of the whole human genome, is the most thorough to look for patterns corresponding to major geographical regions. These regions broadly correspond with popular notions of race, the researchers said in interviews.
The researchers did not analyze genes but rather short segments of DNA known as markers, similar to those used in DNA fingerprinting tests, that have no apparent function in the body.
''What this study says is that if you look at enough markers you can identify the geographic region a person comes from,'' said Dr. Kenneth Kidd of Yale University, an author of the report.
The issue of race and ethnicity has forced itself to biomedical researchers' attention because human populations have different patterns of disease, and advances in decoding DNA have made it possible to try and correlate disease with genetics.
The study, published today in Science, finds that ''self-reported population ancestry likely provides a suitable proxy for genetic ancestry.'' In other words, someone saying he is of European ancestry will have genetic similarities to other Europeans.
Using self-reported ancestry ''is less expensive and less intrusive'' said Dr. Marcus Feldman of Stanford University, the senior author of the study. Rather than analyzing a person's DNA, a doctor could simply ask his race or continent of origin and gain useful information about their genetic make-up.
Several scientific journal editors have said references to race should be avoided. But a leading population geneticist, Dr. Neil Risch of Stanford University, argued recently that race was a valid area of medical research because it reflects the genetic differences that arose on each continent after the ancestral human population dispersed from its African homeland.
''Neil's article was theoretical and this is the data that backs up what he said,'' Dr. Feldman said.
The new result is based on blood samples gathered from around the world as part of the Human Genome Diversity Project, though on a much less ambitious scale than originally intended. Dr. Feldman and his colleagues analyzed the DNA of more than 1,000 people at some 400 markers. Because the sites have no particular function, they are free to change or mutate without harming the individual, and can become quite different over the generations.
The Science authors concluded that 95 percent of the genetic variations in the human genome is found in people all over the world, as might be expected for a small ancestral population that dispersed perhaps as recently as 50,000 years ago.
But as the first human populations started reproducing independently from one another, each started to develop its own pattern of genetic differences. The five major continental groups now differ to a small degree, the Science article says, as judged by the markers. The DNA in the genes is subject to different pressures, like those of natural selection.
Similar divisions of the world's population have been implied by earlier studies based on the Y chromosome, carried by males, and on mitochondrial DNA, bequeathed through the female line. But both elements constitute a tiny fraction of the human genome and it was not clear how well they might represent the behavior of the rest of the genome.
Despite the large shared pool of genetic variation, the small number of differences allows the separate genetic history of each major group to be traced. Even though this split broadly corresponds with popular notions of race, the authors of Science article avoid using the word, referring to the genetic patterning they have found with words like ''population structure'' and ''self-reported population ancestry.''
But Dr. Feldman said the finding essentially confirmed the popular conception of race. He said precautions should be taken to make sure the new data coming out of genetic studies were not abused.
''We need to get a team of ethicists and anthropologists and some physicians together to address what the consequences of the next phase of genetic analysis is going to be,'' he said.
Some diseases are much commoner among some ethnic groups than others. Sickle cell anemia is common among Africans, while hemochromatosis, an iron metabolism disorder, occurs in 7.5 percent of Swedes. It can therefore be useful for a doctor to consider a patient's race in diagnosing disease. Researchers seeking the genetic variants that cause such diseases must take race into account because a mixed population may confound their studies.
The new medical interest in race and genetics has left many sociologists and anthropologists beating a different drum in their assertions that race is a cultural idea, not a biological one. The American Sociological Association, for instance, said in a recent statement that ''race is a social construct'' and warned of the ''danger of contributing to the popular conception of race as biological.''
Dr. Alan Goodman, a physical anthropologist at Hampshire College and an adviser to the association, said, ''there is no biological basis for race.'' The clusters shown in the Science article were driven by geography, not race, he said.
But Dr. Troy Duster, a sociologist at New York University and chairman of the committee that wrote the sociologists' statement on race, said it was meant to talk about the sociological implications of classifying people by race and was not intended to discuss the genetics.
''Sociologists don't have the competence to go there,'' he said.
Today we have commercial autosomal dna tests and calculators like gedmatch to measure genetic similarities between different groups, but you probably think that's fake or something. (You're way too fanatic). BTW the DNA responsible for looks is not the only DNA that we share with people who come from same ethnicity as us.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 06:34 PM
Where do you get that by sharing a haplogroup you are already 2% similar to him?
I only share 0.9% of my closest non-family relationship, I can see it in the DNA matches of commercial companies. Most are 0.5% or below.
I also share 7.7% with my father's first cousin and she is by far the one with whom I share the most DNA.
Commercial DNA tests don’t include the Y chromosome when checking relatedness. It’s simple. Your Y chromosome represents 2% of your entire genome, people from the same haplogroup share around 90-100% of the full Y dna including its unique mutations & genetic material. In short you have the same 2% as someone else from your haplogroup.
If they included Y chromosome to check matches, everyone would have millions of match with second cousins.
Here are some articles that link haplogroup with cardiac diseases:
Haplogroup Linked to Higher Risk of Early Heart Attacks
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10381015/
Haplogroup and it’s links to Heart Attack Susceptibility
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793196/
Touijer
12-09-2023, 06:43 PM
2002, different times: https://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/20/us/gene-study-identifies-5-main-human-populations-linking-them-to-geography.html
Today we have commercial autosomal dna tests and calculators like gedmatch to measure genetic similarities between different groups, but you probably think that's fake or something. (You're way too fanatic). BTW the DNA responsible for looks is not the only DNA that we share with people who come from same ethnicity as us.
Yes that’s what they are Commercial. They are not used by professionals. The way they work is they compare your autosomal dna with samples they have to see which they look similar too and give you ethnicity based on that. That’s not how society worked back then with patrilineal tribes.
I’m not denying autosomal but it’s useless and is a fun science for people that want to know where they’re from in a simpler way. What do you think sells more, a percentage of what you are or random letters denoting your haplogroup? Of course people will want the fancy numbers to see where they’re from when it’s useless.
Yes they will tell you genetic similarities but that means nothing genetically. You still share around 1.9% to 2% with members of your haplogroup making you second cousins while sharing the same grandfather like a tribe or family, the modern concept of “race” is inaccurate and a fallacy.
chinshen
12-09-2023, 06:45 PM
Commercial DNA tests don’t include the Y chromosome when checking relatedness. It’s simple. Your Y chromosome represents 2% of your entire genome, people from the same haplogroup share around 90-100% of the full Y dna including its unique mutations & genetic material. In short you have the same 2% as someone else from your haplogroup.
If they included Y dna to check matches, everyone would have millions of match with second cousins. The dna you see is shared in commercial companies is also taken from chromosomes to check relatedness, like the Y chromosome, except the Y chromosome has no junk dna.
Here are some articles that link haplogroup with cardiac diseases:
R1B Haplogroup Linked to Higher Risk of Early Heart Attacks
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10381015/
R1b Haplogroup and Its Link to Heart Attack Susceptibility
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5793196/
Is that 2% of the entire human genome? Or 2% of just what the commercial companies test for? Since most of the commercial companies like 23&me only test a fraction of the entire human genome.
kingmob
12-09-2023, 06:51 PM
Is that 2% of the entire human genome? Or 2% of just what the commercial companies test for? Since most of the commercial companies like 23&me only test a fraction of the entire human genome.
Entire genome, because it's XY in the 23rd pair. So you get one X from each parent to form a pair of XX for each chr. but your 23rd chr. has XY, the Y coming from your father.
Commercial companies test for 600K SNPs or so, that's less than 1% of your total genome, you need a whole genome sequence to test the total.
chinshen
12-09-2023, 06:55 PM
Entire genome, because it's XY in the 23rd pair. So you get one X from each parent to form a pair of XX for each chr. but your 23rd chr. has XY, the Y coming from your father.
Commercial companies test for 600K SNPs or so, that's less than 1% of your total genome, you need a whole genome sequence to test the total.
Thank you for your answer, in that case the percentage of Y chromosome would add up to much more than 2% of what the commercial companies test factoring 600K SNPs instead of the 3 Billion.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 06:55 PM
People tend to share more DNA with people who come from the same ethnic/racial background than with people who come from different background. That's why they tend look more similar to each other than to people from other backgrounds (similar looks are result of shared DNA). This is quite obvious when you compare Swedes to Nigerians and not so obvious when you compare Swedes to Germans because the genetic distance is lower in that case. It's ridiculous that you focus on that 2% but ignore the 98%. That I share less DNA with my 3rd cousins than with a black man who has the same HG as me, is just your personal idea.
It’s not my personal idea but the facts. I think your problem is you don’t want to be associated with black people. Genetically me and the African-American man have the same grandfather, share 2% making us second cousins and thousands of mutations. You only need 2 mutations for blue eyes.
If we add the context as well that the haplogroup came from the steppes and immigrated to Europe as a tribe and were all patriarchal like Yamnayas, Bell Beakers or even Corded ware then there is your answer. The modern racial ethnicity you hold on to is meaningless and you need to look at it from a tribe/family perspective not modern ethnicities.
You can keep denying all you want
Petalpusher
12-09-2023, 06:58 PM
Haplo-cousins? They’re your cousins and with more impact
What is the remaining 98%? You tell me. You share 50% of that with your parents, siblings and 12.5% with your first cousin. I really am curious where you think that the 98% means a Swedish neighbor??
Hey it's not goatfucker land where people copulate with their cousins and siblings here. In the real world your direct ancestors are your parents and grandparents. Your parents accounts for 50+50, your grand parents for 25% each and so on as the tree grows down. Your first cousin could be half Chinese or Black or whatever for all we know. Your parents can't be that, or you would be proportionally too. Cousins are not in your line of ancestors, that's what really matters, let's remember that. Cousins are like the leaves on the sides, while your ancestors are the branch, and you are the tip of it.
Sounds like obvious sauce but apparently it needs to be restated for the challenged minds around about every 3 years when we reset the Matrix on Apricity.
Now let's be serious for a minute and see what the reality is. There are a few reasons people in general get hung up on haplos:
1) First they are kind of cool, and unique. You get a special code for yourself, if you dig deeper you get many letters and numbers. Almost like a Terminator identification tag. Neat.
2) It's something you can easily associate with a group of people around the world, so more than others, but in general people will see that if you are R1 let's say, you have a good chance of being European since it's overwhelmingly the dominant lineage pretty much everywhere in Europe. Same for E or O, etc...and it's usually the first thing you can easily wrap your head around when you don't understand anything about genetic. It's as much ignorance as it is "laziness" and a feel good simplification in an otherwise very complex field. Unfortunately females can't partake since they don't have a Y and almost nobody cares about mt's. Sad face. That should already tell you how important it truely is at that point.
3) Advocating for the importance of the Y, makes it look like you are really badass because only men should count and in traditionnal folklore, the man's family is seen as the dominant one, which turns that way the moment he has a son. It used to be what Rethel was stuttering all day about, only the males count from the paternal side, everybody else ghosted.
4) People who will get an "interesting" haplo for their background is the vast majority of the time individually a draw of luck with just different odds, as pretty much all haplos and even most subclades exist in almost all the countries in Europe, will feel more special and different, at least than what your nationality suggest or what you appear to be. So you want it to matter and it's the easiest escape route from your background (Touijer probably thinks he's white cause he's R). In the same tune "Bro im ethnically Bulgarian but im U106, i must be of super NW descent", in some sort of weird self convincing manifestation, and likely even OWD (cause it never goes the other way around). Nobody parades his EV13 like it's a pride in these circles or it matters anymore, except in an attempt of forced self depreciating humor.
1 and 2 are fine, we ve all been there. 3 is scientifically and spiritually dumb but somewhat understandable in this day and age. 4th is really where the mental fuckery goes deep. Let's say you are from somewhere in the Balkans but your haplo is associated with a super fancy origin or ancient group of conquerors in chariots, masters of crops or spears... whatever you kink is. It doesn't detract from the fact most of what you are made of by your direct ancestors for thousands of years, will align with the haplogroups breakdown of the region you are from, since your beloved paternal lineage has been intertwined each generation with other people's background and haplos that leaded one step closer to you. If you were able to test all your tree leading to you, we would find a proportion regressing to the average of this area, many E as its the case in the Balkans for example. You are x,y,z but sorry most of your ancestors still have been molded by your local distribution of haplos and more relevantly their admixtures. Which is how genetic testing exists in the first place, the demonstrated assumption that people of the same country, and furthermore the same region are, on average, more related and closer ethnically to each others than other parts, regions and countries of the world.
Nevertheless it's very useful to track and make comprehensive assumptions about ancient population movements, genealogy and few cool stories, but for yourself and from an ethnic standpoint, which is what people are really interested in usually in these discusions (let's not kid ourselves), it's not that relevant im afraid.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 07:03 PM
that if you are R let's say, you have a good chance of being European since it's overwhelmingly the dominant lineage pretty much everywhere in Europe.
That’s what I’m against. If you’re R you’re not automatically European or White. The term European and White is inaccurate genetically and means nothing. R is like a tribe itself. The history of the haplogroup is based on coming to Europe, being patriarchal and marrying local women.
The R1b tribes that came in Europe weren’t white (as if this means anything genetically), so why are we saying it’s a white haplogroup? They acted like a tribe and were patrilineal, people can’t grasp that modern nations is a joke
If you’re R, you’re not automatically European or white, but that’s only because European or white means nothing and genetically you are closed to other R’s then Europeans with other haplogroups.
The term European is similar to Canadian or American, means nothing genetically, same thing with whiteness.
That’s what I’m against. If you’re R you’re not automatically European or White. The term European and White is inaccurate genetically and means nothing. R is like a tribe itself. The history of the haplogroup is based on coming to Europe, being patriarchal and marrying local women.
The R1b tribes that came in Europe weren’t white (as if this means anything genetically), so why are we saying it’s a white haplogroup? They acted like a tribe and were patrilineal, people can’t grasp that modern nations is a joke
If you’re R, you’re not automatically European or white, but that’s only because European or white means nothing and genetically you are closed to other R’s then Europeans with other haplogroups.
The term European is similar to Canadian or American, means nothing genetically, same thing with whiteness.
European does mean something genetically, so cut that bullshit. There are ethnically European peoples just as there are ethnically Sub-Saharan African, East Asian or Polynesian ones. American is a nationality whereas there is no European nationality, it means being from the continent of Europe.
Touijer
12-09-2023, 07:42 PM
European does mean something genetically, so cut that bullshit. There are ethnically European peoples just as there are ethnically Sub-Saharan African, East Asian or Polynesian ones. American is a nationality whereas there is no European nationality, it means being from the continent of Europe.
Being European is akin to being African or Asian. These terms are used today and hold no significance. What do Europeans have in common genetically? It’s good talking but it’s better backing it with evidence.
I’m tired of repeating the same things over and over, this should be basic knowledge. What separates you from Americans that people consider as lacking knowledge thinking that Africa and Asia are actual unified countries?
Being European is akin to being African or Asian. These terms are used today and hold no significance. What do Europeans have in common genetically? It’s good talking but it’s better backing it with evidence.
I’m tired of repeating the same things over and over, this should be basic knowledge. What separates you from Americans that people consider as lacking knowledge thinking that Africa and Asia are actual unified countries?
You are obviously some kind of brown anti-white Muslim who holds a grudge against Europeans. I don't know if you're a sockpuppet of someone banned but I can see you through pretty clearly. So my advice for you would be to get the fuck out!
Touijer
12-09-2023, 08:07 PM
You are obviously some kind of brown anti-white Muslim who holds a grudge against Europeans. I don't know if you're a sockpuppet of someone banned but I can see you through pretty clearly. So my advice for you would be to get the fuck out!
That’s some good sources you got here buddy, wonderful job. I can’t hold grudge for something that means nothing. I can’t grasp why some can’t stand the fact that haplogroups are useful. Is it because you’re insecure that it breaks the European wall you stand behind thus are afraid you’re not labeled as such? Weird behaviour
I always said there’s no such thing as European being a united race. I will repeat it for the 100th time the haplogroup came from the steppes and immigrated to Europe as a tribe and were all patriarchal like Yamnayas, Bell Beakers and even Corded ware and had descendants so you need to remove the concept of ethnic-nationalism because it’s baseless
Asked you for sources and you come with a story from up your butt. I don’t care about your insecurities, bring sources or don’t talk.
Smeagol
12-09-2023, 10:23 PM
You are obviously some kind of brown anti-white Muslim who holds a grudge against Europeans. I don't know if you're a sockpuppet of someone banned but I can see you through pretty clearly. So my advice for you would be to get the fuck out!
Muslims are just retarded from 1000 years of inbreeding.
thisismyaccount
12-09-2023, 11:04 PM
Yes that’s what they are Commercial. They are not used by professionals. The way they work is they compare your autosomal dna with samples they have to see which they look similar too and give you ethnicity based on that. That’s not how society worked back then with patrilineal tribes.
I’m not denying autosomal but it’s useless and is a fun science for people that want to know where they’re from in a simpler way. What do you think sells more, a percentage of what you are or random letters denoting your haplogroup? Of course people will want the fancy numbers to see where they’re from when it’s useless.
Yes they will tell you genetic similarities but that means nothing genetically. You still share around 1.9% to 2% with members of your haplogroup making you second cousins while sharing the same grandfather like a tribe or family, the modern concept of “race” is inaccurate and a fallacy.
I mean, academics uses qpadm, admixture and other tools to determine autosomal data? Autosomal/genetical groups do exists though.
Haplogroups are important however, passed from paternal ancestor to descendant for generations
thisismyaccount
12-09-2023, 11:09 PM
Being European is akin to being African or Asian. These terms are used today and hold no significance. What do Europeans have in common genetically? It’s good talking but it’s better backing it with evidence.
I’m tired of repeating the same things over and over, this should be basic knowledge. What separates you from Americans that people consider as lacking knowledge thinking that Africa and Asia are actual unified countries?
To be fair, Asia is much more diverse than Europe is. So is Africa.
Europeans are rather a results of pastoralists into-europeans and local farmers with varying ancestry, if we dont go more than 5000 years back.
Asia is basically a big continent with several continents on its own. Africa has North Africa, horn Africa and rest of Africa, with latter being very diverse too.
I think Asia and Africa cant really be compared to Europe? It would be better to compare example South Asia with Europe instead, even though South Asia is more diverse than Europe is. But Europe is diverse on its own.
I dont want to give my opinion on whiteness and whatnot though
Touijer
12-10-2023, 12:36 AM
To be fair, Asia is much more diverse than Europe is. So is Africa.
Europeans are rather a results of pastoralists into-europeans and local farmers with varying ancestry, if we dont go more than 5000 years back.
Asia is basically a big continent with several continents on its own. Africa has North Africa, horn Africa and rest of Africa, with latter being very diverse too.
I think Asia and Africa cant really be compared to Europe? It would be better to compare example South Asia with Europe instead, even though South Asia is more diverse than Europe is. But Europe is diverse on its own.
I dont want to give my opinion on whiteness and whatnot though
South Asia has the same haplogroups which is H for natives and the R1a invaders. Europe has 8. This tells everything
Touijer
12-10-2023, 12:37 AM
I mean, academics uses qpadm, admixture and other tools to determine autosomal data? Autosomal/genetical groups do exists though.
Haplogroups are important however, passed from paternal ancestor to descendant for generations
I didn’t see archeologists use autosomal to test Pharaohs like Tutankhamen
thisismyaccount
12-10-2023, 09:05 AM
I didn’t see archeologists use autosomal to test Pharaohs like Tutankhamen
Because haplogroups dont change as much as autosomal do, but that probably wasnt their focus anyways. They probably used the data to show Tutankhamen was descendant of the Irish, even though he probably was 98%+ Egyptian.
These studies with haplogroups are either because their main focus is haplogroups which has a story on its own, or is just for the public to watch. The Tutankhamen article had westerners as its target focus. Normal with westerners being interested in anything with europe and sometimes Egypt or china. Specially when you link them with europe
You cant deny that academics dont go on autosomal data though. Example there are dna papers with autosomal data such as Central Asia or xiangjiang in china
thisismyaccount
12-10-2023, 09:06 AM
South Asia has the same haplogroups which is H for natives and the R1a invaders. Europe has 8. This tells everything
There are L haplogroups, J, G, H, R1a, C. Forgot to mention the other ones too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_South_Asia
Their languages are more diverse as well.
South Asia is by the way a continent in itself. I only compared it to europe. By landmass it's smaller though.
But you cant say Europe is more diverse than South Asia is though. West asia is diverse too, probably even more diverse than both Europe and South Asia with Turkics, Arabs, assyrians, persians/kurds too. These are basically continents on their own
gixajo
12-10-2023, 09:17 AM
I didn’t see archeologists use autosomal to test Pharaohs like Tutankhamen
Paleogeneticists or Archaeogenetists, and not Archaeologists, used Ydna&mtdna because the necessary technology to correctly use autosomal data did not yet exist.
First, blood groups from ancient/modern samples were used, then Ydna&mtdna and finally autosomal, which requires more advanced computing technology.
In any case, if there is any expert here, please correct me if I am wrong, but due to the dates of the studies and the type of data that are used in the timeline, this is what I have observed.
kingmob
12-10-2023, 10:34 AM
That’s some good sources you got here buddy, wonderful job. I can’t hold grudge for something that means nothing. I can’t grasp why some can’t stand the fact that haplogroups are useful. Is it because you’re insecure that it breaks the European wall you stand behind thus are afraid you’re not labeled as such? Weird behaviour
You got westerner R-L23 branch. Have you looked at it further downstream?
kingmob
12-10-2023, 10:37 AM
snip.
You are from that branching:
https://i.ibb.co/BNSqCFd/science-abm4247-fa.jpg
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