Do you support an independent Baluchistan?

[StonyArabia]

Baluchistan is a region in Southeastern Iran, it's mostly inhabited by Sunni Baloch who are of Iranic origins but differ from the Persians. They seem to have always wanted to keep their ethnicity identity and now many want independence.

[Shah-Jehan]

No, most Balochis live in Pakistan anyway...

[Han Cholo]

Nope. It'll become another Pakistan and a total Taliban house state.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I thought Balochistan was mostly in Pakistan.

[Baluarte]

"Independent Baluchistan" just reminded of this map:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/The%20Project%20for%20the%20New%20Middle%20East.jp g

[StonyArabia]

No, most Balochis live in Pakistan anyway...

The Baloch are still the majority of their region. They have always wanted to have their own independent state. They have been forced to be in Iran and Pakistan. I believe they have right to their own self-determination.

[Shah-Jehan]

The Baloch are still the majority of their region. They have always wanted to have their own independent state. They have been forced to be in Iran and Pakistan. I believe they have right to their own self-determination.

They weren't forced at all, they from birth to death are an Iranic people and naturally identify with Iranic civilization as Iran is not solely Persia. As for Pakistan, they were a territory of the Mughals since a long time which the British inherited and then after partition, it joined Pakistan through signing a treaty between the state of Kalat and Pakistan...

[Óttar]

Anything that chops up Pakistan is a good thing in my book.

[MarkyMark]

"Independent Baluchistan" just reminded of this map:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/The%20Project%20for%20the%20New%20Middle%20East.jp g

Ugghhhh. The Free "Kurdistan" on that map really bugs me. Tons of Syrian, Assyrian, and Armenian ancestral lands being taken. As for Balochistan, I can get behind it if they aren't land greedy and have no history of radical Islamism.

[StonyArabia]

They weren't forced at all, they from birth to death are an Iranic people and naturally identify with Iranic civilization as Iran is not solely Persia.

They are Iranic people but they have different culture and traditions from those of the Persians. This is the reason why many of them want to have independence. The Iranian section of Baluchistan is the most vocal about it they want to have an independent state where they can have their own self-determination.


As for Pakistan, they were a territory of the Mughals since a long time which the British inherited and then after partition, it joined Pakistan through signing a treaty between the state of Kalat and Pakistan...

Yes but if they are with Pakistan on good terms, that's good, but if they want to have their own nation they should.

[Mortimer]

Balochistan should be part of Greater India, I believe Balochis are Dravidians

[Shah-Jehan]

Balochistan should be part of Greater India, I believe Balochis are Dravidians

They are Iranic, even the Dravidian tribe that migrated to Balochestan in 1000 AD see themselves as Iranic...

[StonyArabia]

Balochistan should be part of Greater India, I believe Balochis are Dravidians

They are an Iranic people with strong links to South Asia. They speak a Northern Iranic language despite their geographical position.

[Geist]

Ugghhhh. The Free "Kurdistan" on that map really bugs me. Tons of Syrian, Assyrian, and Armenian ancestral lands being taken. As for Balochistan, I can get behind it if they aren't land greedy and have no history of radical Islamism.

Map is full of nonsense. How come Kurdistan stretches out to Black Sea especially to where Laz people live? and Tabriz on Kurdistan borders just another thing. But afterall this is an American plan to keep control in Middle East, i guess they wouldn't care much about demographics if its profits.

[MarkyMark]

Map is full of nonsense. How come Kurdistan stretches out to Black Sea especially to where Laz people live? and Tabriz on Kurdistan borders just another thing. But afterall this is an American plan to keep control in Middle East, i guess they wouldn't care much about demographics if its profits.

Lol. This reminds me of when a couple of Kurd members on this forum tried to say that Laz people were Kurds or some bullshit like that. And what the hell is Greater Lebanon? Baghdad right in the middle of Shiite-Sunni border? None of this is even close to common sense!

[Geist]

Lol. This reminds me of when a couple of Kurd members on this forum tried to say that Laz people were Kurds or some bullshit like that. And what the hell is Greater Lebanon? Baghdad right in the middle of Shiite-Sunni border? None of this is even close to common sense!

Our people are worlds apart, who said that? Funny part is today in Turkey, Kurds are mostly hated by Laz people even more than Turks themselves. I remember BDP's (Kurdish political party in Turkey) bus was burned and Kurds there were beaten before elections in Black Sea.

[MarkyMark]

Our people are worlds apart, who said that? A pan-Kurdist? Funny part is today in Turkey, Kurds are mostly hated by Laz people even more than Turks themselves. I remember BDP's (Kurdish political party in Turkey) bus was burned and Kurds there were beaten before elections in Black Sea.

Most likely. But nonetheless, Kurds are in a worse situation than they seem to project. They may have the numbers and high birthrate, however many Kurds don't want to separate from Turkey, and there are Kurdish tribes who basically sold themselves out to the Turkish government to oppose the formation of a Kurdish nation. One of those tribes tried suing a Syriac Monastery that was 2000 years old(much older than the Kurdish people themselves btw) on the grounds that it was built on their(Kurdish) ancestral land, but the Kurds lost the lawsuit. Anyways, may I inquire why Laz people hate Kurds? Land disputes?

[Wadaad]

Map is full of nonsense. How come Kurdistan stretches out to Black Sea especially to where Laz people live? and Tabriz on Kurdistan borders just another thing. But afterall this is an American plan to keep control in Middle East, i guess they wouldn't care much about demographics if its profits.

Map was made by some Zionist neo-cons with too much time on their hands...its all hypothetical, post Iraq war neocon American masturbating. You think they care about historic intricacies like where Kurds end and Laz people begin, when making this map?

[Geist]

Most likely. But nonetheless, Kurds are in a worse situation than they seem to project. They may have the numbers and high birthrate, however many Kurds don't want to separate from Turkey, and there are Kurdish tribes who basically sold themselves out to the Turkish government to oppose the formation of a Kurdish nation. One of those tribes tried suing a Syriac Monastery that was 2000 years old(much older than the Kurdish people themselves btw) on the grounds that it was built on their ancestral land, but the Kurds lost the lawsuit.

You are right. Most of Kurds migrated to western Turkey and integrated with local people there. They do not want to face with exchange between Kurdistan and Turkey as every one of them knows whether they are Kurdish nationalists or not, Turkey is more prosperous and wealthy for living. Briefly, if we put language rights and ethnicity discrimination aside, Kurds are actually happy to live in Turkey and they know Kurdistan would be worse for them, kind of dilemma.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Map was made by some Zionist neo-cons with too much time on their hands...its all hypothetical, post Iraq war neocon American masturbating. You think they care about historic intricacies like where Kurds end and Laz people begin, when making this map?

Ironically, Israel is supposed to return to the pre-1967 borders, according to this map.

How could that be in any Zionists' wish list, is something that only a Somalian could hallucinate...

[Azamat]

Kurds are actually happy to live in TurkeySources?

[Geist]

Sources?

Logic. Who would prefer backward Kurdistan over Western Turkey?

[Azamat]

Logic. Who would prefer backward Kurdistan over Western Turkey?All these people apparently do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M42ZnJyBypc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5_RCDHkNzA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmP3nEaZWco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuyL826Bwws

Believe me, the links can go on and on. Also, would you mind sharing your score with us before resuming this discussion?

http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf

[GrebluBro]

Baloch people's natural resources and land are being exploited by Punjabi Pakistanis.
They deserve a separate country like Kurds.:thumb001:

[Geist]

All these people apparently do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M42ZnJyBypc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5_RCDHkNzA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmP3nEaZWco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuyL826Bwws

Believe me, the links can go on and on.

Read what i did wrote again and do not pick just one sentence to make it irrevelant with rest. I was talking about Kurds who lives in Western Turkey, all those in the links are from Eastern Kurdistan region. You can go on with your retardedness all day long like a true Kurd.


Also, would you mind sharing your score with us before resuming this discussion?

http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf

160. Now it's your turn.

[Azamat]

Read what i did wrote again and do not pick just one sentence to become it irrevelant with rest. I was talking about Kurds who lives in Western Turkey, all those in the links are from Eastern Kurdistan region.You wrote:

You are right. Most of Kurds migrated to western Turkey and integrated with local people there. ... Briefly, if we put language rights and ethnicity discrimination aside, Kurds are actually happy to live in Turkey and they know Kurdistan would be worse for them, kind of dilemma. Ignoring the fact that your statement "most Kurds migrated to western Turkey" is incorrect, your post still implies that a minority of Kurds must be present in their native areas, being included under your general observation of Kurds that they "are happy to live in Turkey".

Please learn to construct coherent sentences in order not to come off as a moron.


160. Now it's your turn.200. See, I can be a pussy too. :)

[Geist]

Could you explain why is only and one Kurdish party in Turkey gets 2-3 million votes at peak in general elections while there is nearly 18 million Kurds in country? Let's say only 9 million of them are able to vote but there is still a too much gap would be left.

[Azamat]

Could you explain why is only and one Kurdish party in Turkey gets 2-3 million votes at peak in general elections while there is nearly 18 million Kurds in country? Let's say only 9 million of them are able to vote but there is still a too much gap would be left.Because vast amounts of Kurds simply do not vote, and because many of the provinces covering Kurdish areas are shared with substantial amounts of non-Kurds.

Unfortunately no sources are available to prove low voting turnouts for Kurdish regions during general elections, but this data on a 2010 referendum for constitutional amendments should demonstrate the overall pattern:


Indeed, a province-by-province voter turnout map reveals very low participation in Kurdish areas. Although turnout was 77% nationwide, just 9% voted in Hakkari, scene of recent clashes between the Turkish military and PKK militants. Turnout in Diyarbakir, a major center in the southeast, was 33%.http://www.tabula.ge/en/blog/70850-turkey-votes-evet-or-hayir

BTW, I am still waiting for a screenshot showing your test result. If I am to continue discussing with you I must know whether you are worth the investment, and based on your comments so far I have reason to doubt that you are. Hence why I didn't bother to address MarkyMark's posts - I am already aware based on previous encounters that his IQ must be somewhere in the double digits.

[Geist]

BTW, I am still waiting for a screenshot showing your test result. If I am to continue discussing with you I must know whether you are worth the investment, and based on your comments so far I have reason to doubt that you are.

Here: http://i.imgur.com/S5nWMig.jpg

You are obviously smarter than me and therefore no reason to discuss. Have a good day.

[Arcadefire]

Fuck that! I am with my Pakistani brothers here. They better bitch slap the terrorists and control the situation. watch the 3rd party countries come in and help start some sort of guerrilla movement. The last think south asia needs is YET another perennial, never ending headache.

I am sure the Iranians will handle their side of the problem with ease aswell.

[Azamat]

You are obviously smarter than me and therefore no reason to discuss.So in hindsight my impressions of you were correct from the outset. It's good for the sake of clarity and efficiency on behalf of our readership that you agree you're a dumbass. :)

[Anglojew]

Pakistan is an illegitimate Country. Dismantle it.

[Arcadefire]

Pakistan is an illegitimate Country. Dismantle it.
Be as that may ,no one is going to bother trying ti dismantle a country full of angry muslims with nukes :D The point is , for the sake of prosperity India and Pakistan should just let by gons be by gons and work to better to living conditions of the poor.


The Pakistani ruling bargain is set by the Pakistani Army and says: “We let you civilians pretend to rule, but we will actually call all the key shots, we will consume nearly 25 percent of the state budget and we will justify all of this as necessary for Pakistan to confront its real security challenge: India and its occupation of Kashmir. Looking for Bin Laden became a side-business for Pakistan’s military to generate U.S. aid.”

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/pakistans-insane-military-spending-up-there-with-americas-20110511#ixzz2oMAN5ERK
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Money could be spent on other things like education, healthcare, food reserves.

[Anglojew]

Be as that may ,no one is going to bother trying ti dismantle a country full of angry muslims with nukes :D The point is , for the sake of prosperity India and Pakistan should just let by gons be by gons and work to better to living conditions of the poor.



Money could be spent on other things like education, healthcare, food reserves.

Good points.

[Gaston]

I usually don't involve myself in non-French affairs. But I think an independent Balochistan is a terrible idea for several reasons, one being its unlikeliness. In terms of vital natural resources, Balochistan is mostly hot desert or semi-arid so I don't expect it to be self-sufficient in water and food (scarcity of arable land) ever: the only thing you can do is light herding and grazing.

Other reasons are the multiplication of muslim countries is bad for the stability of the region (or any region), I am for bigger countires (and against small countries) because the 21st century and its challenges in economy and science make small countries obsolete and suicidal. Baloch people are also an Iranic Iranian people and fit well in the idea of a Greater Iran.
Finally, amputating Iran from its easternmost lands would move Iran's center of gravity to the West and make the situation worse for the Near East, Israel and by extension Europe.

[Wadaad]

Pakistan is an illegitimate Country. Dismantle it.

Agreed, there should be a single continuum from Marrakech, all the way to Peshawar and beyond

[MarkyMark]

So in hindsight my impressions of you were correct from the outset. It's good for the sake of clarity and efficiency on behalf of our readership that you agree you're a dumbass. :)

Hahahahah, Lol. I've read some arguments form Kurds as well that were pure bull shit (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?106568-Who-are-the-purest-Iranics/page2), like this one time another Communist friend of yours tried to assert that Kurds were native to that region based off of some mountain phenotype! Lol! I didn't even bother arguing with him on that one. Now look here idiot-savant, just because you got your panties in a bunch over our anti-Kurd circlejerk doesn't mean we care about how Kurds vote. Nor does it correlate to someone's IQ, when we were wrong about a village of kurds not voting. Its better that way anyways. Keep the political power away from the Communists.

[Anglojew]

Agreed, there should be a single continuum from Marrakech, all the way to Peshawar and beyond

Ruled by Israel.

[MarkyMark]

Ruled by Banks.

Fixed.

[Smaug]

I didn't even know what "Bachulistan" was before this thead.

[Baluarte]

I didn't even know what "Bachulistan" was before this thead.

Baluchistan* ;)

[Smaug]

Baluchistan* ;)

That would be a good name for your future empire, unless you want something more Western like "Baluland".

[Xenomorph]

That would be a good name for your future empire, unless you want something more Western like "Baluland".

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110223010152/poohadventures/images/2/2a/Clipjungle4new.gif

[Rojava]

Ugghhhh. The Free "Kurdistan" on that map really bugs me. Tons of Syrian, Assyrian, and Armenian ancestral lands being taken. As for Balochistan, I can get behind it if they aren't land greedy and have no history of radical Islamism.

Baluchis have Kurdish origins.... If you want "your" land back so fucking much then tell your people to fight for it. They are our ancestral lands too, don't forget that. That map was made by Zionists and Americans. This is a map of Kurdistan:

http://news.unisamun.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/map_of_greater_kurdistan.gif

You lot don't even form a majority in any major city.


Talk about being land greedy, there are 22 Arab states that want to make a new one called "Palestine".

And yes, I support a free Baluchistan.

[Rojava]

Hahahahah, Lol. I've read some arguments form Kurds as well that were pure bull shit (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?106568-Who-are-the-purest-Iranics/page2), like this one time another Communist friend of yours tried to assert that Kurds were native to that region based off of some mountain phenotype! Lol! I didn't even bother arguing with him on that one. Now look here idiot-savant, just because you got your panties in a bunch over our anti-Kurd circlejerk doesn't mean we care about how Kurds vote. Nor does it correlate to someone's IQ, when we were wrong about a village of kurds not voting. Its better that way anyways. Keep the political power away from the Communists.

I didn't say Kurds are pure Iranics, they are one of the purest out of the Iranic people.

Where's your intelligence? Kurdistan consists of a lot of mountains, and hardly any deserts. So a mountain phenotype would be one of the factors that prove a specific people are natives to the mountainous region that they inhabit, in this case the Kurds. But I know your Shitite brain won't understand that, unfortunately. :)

[Rojava]

Read what i did wrote again and do not pick just one sentence to make it irrevelant with rest. I was talking about Kurds who lives in Western Turkey, all those in the links are from Eastern Kurdistan region. You can go on with your retardedness all day long like a true Kurd.


As a matter of fact, out of all the Kurds I've met in Istanbul, they all prefer to live in cities like Amed, Roha and Mardin.

I bet you've never even been to Western Turkey.

[Rojava]

http://images.topix.com/gallery/up-TPNOULLR9D1O7OJN.jpg

[alanr]

Ugghhhh. The Free "Kurdistan" on that map really bugs me. Tons of Syrian, Assyrian, and Armenian ancestral lands being taken. As for Balochistan, I can get behind it if they aren't land greedy and have no history of radical Islamism.

Clearly there is no point in arguing with someone that has the IQ of mentally challenged gold fish. Apart from your BS British/French made up nation and putting aside the fact that you lack any historical accuracy, all I will tell you is. Yes, we are "stealing your land" why don't you go and do something about it? :)

See, we can be dicks too.

Jump to 24:28 and watch how this "Assyrian" man admits to being an immigrant on our land and how his clothes are originally Kurdish. It's funny how these idiots migrated to Kurdistan, later on to baghdad and then back again and in the process started believing that everything they adapted from us is somehow theirs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F15q8W8JZ88

[Borna]

If it can be done without war, yes, we need to stop flood of middle eastern immigrants to Europe, we CAN'T accept anyone else.

[alanr]

If it can be done without war, yes, we need to stop flood of middle eastern immigrants to Europe, we CAN'T accept anyone else.

Blame your ancestors :)

[Borna]

Blame your ancestors :)

My ancestors were pretty much good at dealing with islamic filth intruders.
Problem is newer generation.


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=prinz+eugen+lied

[alanr]

My ancestors were pretty much good at dealing with islamic filth intruders.
Problem is newer generation.


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=prinz+eugen+lied

Haha. Ah, I shouldn't have given you any intellectual credit. Let me start again. When you used the term "European" you took it up-on yourself to also take part in any past occurrences, such as the British/French drafting of the Middle Eastern borders which are the major cause of all Middle Eastern conflicts. Do you actually think that people voluntarily want to leave their country and homes and go to a foreign country? These borders were specifically drawn for the British and French to take full advantage of the natural resources, and you know how British politics if played, no? They always plan ahead in a sneakiness manner. They purposely put together multiple ethnic groups in one country to allow for easy manipulation if the need ever arises.

Since you seem like a nice racist chap, the blame is indeed on your ancestors and depending on how stupid your views are, and I am guessing they are pretty stupid, you can blame the decisions made by your ancestors for what you call problems today. Even though your countries wouldn't even function without immigrants today, but that's a lesson for another day.

[Borna]

Ah, I shouldn't have given you any intellectual credit.

I don't need any intellectual credit from donkey keeper located in the middle east. You should be happy you are speaking to man of superior culture and behavior.


Do you actually think that people voluntarily want to leave their country and homes and go to a foreign country?

Of course they don't but that goes to your primitive behavior and culture. But on the other hand, why don't they migrate to another wealthy Arab country instead of flooding Europe? You are unnecessary, we don't want you, we don't like you, we hate your language, your savage and tribal customs, your culture, your ugly faces.




Even though your countries wouldn't even function without immigrants today, but that's a lesson for another day.

Explain me today how my country managed to be greatest European power for almost 400 years and make scientific breaktroughs in several fields of science, while you were butchering yourself in those semite clashes.


Personally i would donate any kind of small arms/Rpgs and support every war between Arabs and Jews and vice versa. Both groups are lice of modern humany and therefore must disappear.

[random]

They should have more rights. I don't support an independent baluchistan.

[MarkyMark]

Clearly there is no point in arguing with someone that has the IQ of mentally challenged gold fish. Apart from your BS British/French made up nation and putting aside the fact that you lack any historical accuracy, all I will tell you is. Yes, we are "stealing your land" why don't you go and do something about it? :)

See, we can be dicks too.

Jump to 24:28 and watch how this "Assyrian" man admits to being an immigrant on our land and how his clothes are originally Kurdish. It's funny how these idiots migrated to Kurdistan, later on to baghdad and then back again and in the process started believing that everything they adapted from us is somehow theirs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F15q8W8JZ88

Only a fool would claim it's a made up nation. The Muslims even before the rise of Syrian nationalism and the creation of the Syrian nation called themselves al-shami, and the Syriac called themselves Suryanni. For the past 2.5 thousand years this region was called Syria or Aram which is the other synonym for the land. On the other hand Kurdistan only started in the middle ages, so you are the disadvantage. He is an immigrant because you guys migrated to these lands 1,000 years ago like the gypsies you are, and you continually ramped up persecution of the Christians until finally leading the Sayfo genocide. That man is uneducated in the hsitory of the land and only knows about the recent 50 to 100 years. And yes those plus size jester pants are kurdish. So what? Now back to you thinking you are somehow natives, how on Earth would that be true if you Kurds have been destroying Assyrian villages and renaming them in your own Iranic language. Tell me how do say mountain in Kurdish? Because in Syriac it is Tur, from the Aramean storm God Hadad who was associated with the bull(Taurus), which is where the Taurus mountains get their name. In fact places like Tur Islo were mentioned in ancient Assyrian artifacts and the christians still call it that to this day. Look I could go on, but you cannot win this argument. History speaks for itself. You and you Iranic peoples should just remain in the Zagros, and stay away from Mesopotamia.

[alanr]

Only a fool would claim it's not a made up nation. The Muslims even before the rise of Syrian nationalism and the creation of the Syrian nation called themselves al-shami, and the Syriac called themselves Suryanni. For the past 2.5 thousand years this region was called Syria or Aram which is the other synonym for the land. On the other hand Kurdistan only started in the middle ages, so you are the disadvantage. He is an immigrant because you guys migrated to these lands 1,000 years ago like the gypsies you are, and you continually ramped up persecution of the Christians until finally leading the Sayfo genocide. That man is uneducated in the hsitory of the land and only knows about the recent 50 to 100 years. And yes those plus size jester pants are kurdish. So what? Now back to you thinking you are somehow natives, how on Earth would that be true if you Kurds have been destroying Assyrian villages and renaming them in your own Iranic language. Tell me how do say mountain in Kurdish? Because in Syriac it is Tur, from the Aramean storm God Hadad who was associated with the bull(Taurus), which is where the Taurus mountains get their name. In fact places like Tur Islo were mentioned in ancient Assyrian artifacts and the christians still call it that to this day. Look I could go on, but you cannot win this argument. History speaks for itself. You and you Iranic peoples should just remain in the Zagros, and stay away from Mesopotamia.

Only a retard from a made up nation would claim to be Assyrian. Your language is not Assyrian, neither is your religion, you're as much Assyrian as an Afro-Iraqi :)

Now, as I told you before. If you're retarded enough to believe "We're stealing your land" please, be my guest, go and do something about it because we're sure as hell not going to stop.

[Graham]

If there's a history that supports the idea of Baluchistan being an country in the past. Then I'm fine with it being one in the future. But I don't know much about it.

[Dombra]

Not if they chop up Iran. Only if they take from Pakistan, it would be the only fair if the majority lives there

[alanr]

I don't need any intellectual credit from donkey keeper located in the middle east. You should be happy you are speaking to man of superior culture and behavior.



Of course they don't but that goes to your primitive behavior and culture. But on the other hand, why don't they migrate to another wealthy Arab country instead of flooding Europe? You are unnecessary, we don't want you, we don't like you, we hate your language, your savage and tribal customs, your culture, your ugly faces.





Explain me today how my country managed to be greatest European power for almost 400 years and make scientific breaktroughs in several fields of science, while you were butchering yourself in those semite clashes.


Personally i would donate any kind of small arms/Rpgs and support every war between Arabs and Jews and vice versa. Both groups are lice of modern humany and therefore must disappear.

We? who's we? Why are you taking the credit of work done by mostly Jewish scholars? :picard2: what have you personally done and what is the level of your education? Because quite frankly it's pretty obvious that you're just an idiot. There is no reasoning with fascists. Let me guess, you don't like how immigrants get on with white girls but you don't? ah don't worry kiddo it will get better.

[Rojava]

Only a retard from a made up nation would claim to be Assyrian. Your language is not Assyrian, neither is your religion, you're as much Assyrian as an Afro-Iraqi :)

Now, as I told you before. If you're retarded enough to believe "We're stealing your land" please, be my guest, go and do something about it because we're sure as hell not going to stop.

That's one thing I agree with you on. They keep on claiming us Kurds are stealing their land. Yet most of "Assyria" is still under Arab occupation and Assyrians still choose to migrate to Kurdistan.

Assyrians living in the West (primarily living a luxurious life in California) don't know shit about the region. They've never even visited.

[Rojava]

Only a fool would claim it's not a made up nation. The Muslims even before the rise of Syrian nationalism and the creation of the Syrian nation called themselves al-shami, and the Syriac called themselves Suryanni. For the past 2.5 thousand years this region was called Syria or Aram which is the other synonym for the land. On the other hand Kurdistan only started in the middle ages, so you are the disadvantage. He is an immigrant because you guys migrated to these lands 1,000 years ago like the gypsies you are, and you continually ramped up persecution of the Christians until finally leading the Sayfo genocide. That man is uneducated in the hsitory of the land and only knows about the recent 50 to 100 years. And yes those plus size jester pants are kurdish. So what? Now back to you thinking you are somehow natives, how on Earth would that be true if you Kurds have been destroying Assyrian villages and renaming them in your own Iranic language. Tell me how do say mountain in Kurdish? Because in Syriac it is Tur, from the Aramean storm God Hadad who was associated with the bull(Taurus), which is where the Taurus mountains get their name. In fact places like Tur Islo were mentioned in ancient Assyrian artifacts and the christians still call it that to this day. Look I could go on, but you cannot win this argument. History speaks for itself. You and you Iranic peoples should just remain in the Zagros, and stay away from Mesopotamia.

Lol what's funny is that your ancestors were one of the first to actually mention the Kurds inhabiting Mesopotamia:

"So far the victory cylinder of the Assyrian king Tiglath-pileser I (r. 1114-1076 BC) is the oldest record of the incidence of the ethnic name of the Kurds. It records the "Kurti" or "Qurtie" among the peoples whom the king conquered in his mountain campaigns south of the Lake Van region. The more exact location of these "Kurti" is given by the same document as Mt. Azu/Hazu. We are extraordinarily lucky that this "address" was still current until about sixty years ago—over 3100 years after Tiglath-pileser I. The town of Kurti in the Mt. Hizan region south of Lake Van is the same as the "Kurti in the Mt. Azu" of the Assyrians! The town of Kurti was still serving as a seat of a Kurdish princely house when the Kurdish historian Sharaf al-Din Bitlisi added the dynasty’s history into his celebrated history, the Sharafnâma, in 1597. This "birthplace" of the Kurds continued to be known with the archaic name until the Turkish government changed its name and that of its eponymous river to Bahçesaray in the 1930s. The oldest Kurdish place name—it "birth place" thus joined history, so recent in history."

[Rojava]

Gultekin stop being such a dick by thumbing me down. I know you don't like what I have to say, no need to be so annoying about it.

[gültekin]

Gultekin stop being such a dick by thumbing me down. I know you don't like what I have to say, no need to be so annoying about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKGrOdCAlc

[Rojava]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKGrOdCAlc

Real mature!

[Graus]

Everything which keeps desert dwellers devided is a good thing in my book.

[Borna]

We? who's we? Why are you taking the credit of work done by mostly Jewish scholars? :picard2: what have you personally done and what is the level of your education? Because quite frankly it's pretty obvious that you're just an idiot. There is no reasoning with fascists. Let me guess, you don't like how immigrants get on with white girls but you don't? ah don't worry kiddo it will get better.


As i have said peasant, do not speak to me.

[alanr]

As i have said peasant, do not speak to me.

You're the peasant, even among your European kin. I can bet anything that you're low class which is why you channel your anger at us, superior immigrants :)

[alb0zfinest]

I don't know. This is the first time I hear about this specific region, so it would be wrong of me to make a decision.

[Rojava]

As i have said peasant, do not speak to me.

Go fuck yourself.

[MarkyMark]

Only a retard from a made up nation would claim to be Assyrian. Your language is not Assyrian, neither is your religion, you're as much Assyrian as an Afro-Iraqi :)

Now, as I told you before. If you're retarded enough to believe "We're stealing your land" please, be my guest, go and do something about it because we're sure as hell not going to stop.

I never claimed such a thing. I claimed there are Assyrians but I never said I was.

[alanr]

I never claimed such a thing. I claimed there are Assyrians but I never said I was.

Let me put your mind at ease. There are no Assyrians. If it wasn't for us Kurds AQ groups would have wiped out the Christians in both Iraq and Syria, now do us all a favour and go to sleep, it's past your bed time.

Meanwhile enjoy a video of Kurdistan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvzRfwEMNeU

[MarkyMark]

Let me put your mind at ease. There are no Assyrians. If it wasn't for us Kurds AQ groups would have wiped out the Christians in both Iraq and Syria, now do us all a favour and go to sleep, it's past your bed time.

Meanwhile enjoy a video of Kurdistan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvzRfwEMNeU

There are Assyrians. And yes despite their not so benevolent past, recently Kurds have been the clear headed moderates, but that's besides what I was saying. I just think that they aren't Mesopotamians and thus they should live in the lands in the Zagros Mountains rather than encroaching further upon the few towns that the Christians have left. It's as clear as that. I don't really hold animosity to Kurds even though I get in arguments with you and your communist friends on this site.

[EyeOfTheTiger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKGrOdCAlc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnkpXPIezOg

[alanr]

There are Assyrians. And yes despite their not so benevolent past, recently Kurds have been the clear headed moderates, but that's besides what I was saying. I just think that they aren't Mesopotamians and thus they should live in the lands in the Zagros Mountains rather than encroaching further upon the few towns that the Christians have left. It's as clear as that. I don't really hold animosity to Kurds even though I get in arguments with you and your communist friends on this site.

Let me start by saying, you're either an "Assyrian" in disguise, are naive or just plain biased towards Christians. In any case, since you proudly refer to yourself as a Christian, I will re-educate you, using sources that you will understand.

First of all, lets jump back into history and try to understand when the Nestorian and Jacobite adhering Christians suddenly became "Assyrians" and explore the reasons as to why it happened. For the past hundreds of years, Christian Missionaries attempted to convert Kurds to Christianity.

"A book on the history of mission to the Kurds would be slenderindeed.Butahistoryofmission
inKurdistanistwentytimeslarger.Thedifferenceillumi natesourthesis:missionaries
continuedforahundredyearsto"passthroughthewildernessofKurdishmountains,seeking in
themostremotecornersofthelandthelittlecompaniesofC hristians"(Richter1910:316)."

This is something unknown off, however, the British favoured the Kurds before opting for the Arabs. British missionaries commonly visited Kurdistan and tried to convert the Muslims that they refereed to as "Western by language and character" this is because they wanted to create an alliance with us and award us at the end provided that we convert to Christianity.

"Siftthroughtherecord,likeaprospectorpanningforgold ,andtheoccasionalreferenceto
evangelizingKurdsjumpsoffthepages.Ifearthatconcent ratingthesereferencesinoneplace,
inthisbook,maydullthereaders'feelingstohowrarethes enuggetsare.
Wemustthinkaboutthefailuretoestablishchurchesamong theKurds.Wedonotjudgeany
missionaryforhisorherwork;therewardforfaithfulserv iceisnotseeninthisworld.However,
themissioninKurdistanfailed,asmeasuredagainstEliSm ith'sinauguralwords,tofind"the
leverwhichwouldoverturnthewholesystemofMohammedand elusion"(Joseph1961:44)."

Once the British mission failed, they opted for the Aramaic speaking Christians, whom were by documented Ottoman era evidence part of the Kurdish tribal system. ALL the Christians in Mesopotamian, be they Kurd, Aramaic, Armenian or Arab were united and the "Assyrian" nation re-invented. The fact that the Kurdish people denied the British their plans contributed to the "punishment" lashed at out them. Everything that happened to us after WW1 and the decline of the Kurdish people was due to the fact that we did not accept the British plan. Don't forget, we had a 2 year with the Indian British forces that did not succeed until the RAF came in and used chemical bombs on the Kurdish rebellion.

As for Kurds not being Mesopotamian. Well, tell me genius, why did Kurds not adopt the name of their Iranic conquerors like the Persians did? "Kurd" means son of the mountain, and this term can be found in ancient Sumerian and Assyrian sources. "Hennerbichler believes the term Kurd and similar ethnic labels to have been derived from the Sumerian word stem “kur”, meaning mountain." Some history lessons;

"Bytheendofthe8thcenturytheKurdsagainruledKurdistan politically.Kurdsfromoverpopulated
areascontinuedtomigrateandbetweenthe10thand12thcen turiesIslamicKurdsextendedtheirrule
fromYemenandLibyatoCentralAsia.TheydefendedtheMidd leEastagainsttheByzantinesandthe
Crusaders,shapingthecourseofIslamichistory.Duringt hiseratheyexcelledintheartsandsciences.
ThereligiousmovementMazdakhadbegunemergedintheearl yAD800sandledtoacenturyof
uprisingsagainstIslamicrule.SeveralindependentKurd ishdynastiesruledwesternIranandlaterthe
entireFertileCrescent.

Between932and1062ADtheKurdishdynastyofDaylamitessp readfromtheIndianOceantoAnatolia.
DaylamitespracticedtheCultofAngelsmixedwithsomeShi 'iteinfluences.SomeoftheDaylamite
leaderstriedtowipeoutIslam,buttheylosttheirlivesin theattempt.InAD1169theIslamicAyyubids,
underKurdishSaladin,defeatedtheCrusadersandgainedp owerovermuchoftheMiddleEastuntilthe
late15thcentury.ThesemedievalKurdishdynastieswerev erytolerantofJewsandChristians.
KurdishdominanceintheIslamicworldfadedinthebeginni ngofthe13thcentury,andforthenextfour
centuriestheTurkstookcontrol.Turkishnomadsmovedthr oughKurdistantowipeoutmanyofthe
culturesoftheMiddleEast.SmallKurdishkingdomscontin uedtoexistbutpaidtaxestotheTurks.The
majorKurdishpowersdisappeared.TheMongolinvasionsth atfollowedseemedmildcomparedtothe
ruthlessnessoftheTurks."

"InAD1497VascodaGamaroundedtheCapeofGoodHope,andint ernationaltraderoutessoonshifted
awayfromthesilkroad,leavingtheonceimportantKurdist aneconomicallyisolated.InAD1501the
PersianEmpirerevivedandthePersiansandtheOttomansba ttledonKurdishterritory.Kurdistanwas
tornbetweenthetwopowers,bothofwhichbrutallyoppress edtheKurds.Thewarringempiresliterally
burnedoffthelandinthenorthandwest,destroyingagricu ltureandleavingonlythenomadicKurmanj
toscrapealivingofftheland.AlargenumberofKurdswasde portedandresettledinPersiaand
Anatolia.Theonceprogressivesocietyhadbecomeimpover ishedanddevastated."

"TheKurdscontinuetoremainculturallydistinctfromthei rneighbors.Manyofthepeoplewhohave
movedintoKurdistanoverthepast5000yearshavebecometh oroughlyassimilatedintoKurdish
culture,buttheyhavealsoinfluencedit.Onceoneoftheim portantpoliticalandcommercialcentersof
theworld,Kurdistannowisvirtuallyisolatedfromtheres toftheworld.Itistooearlytoascertain
whetherthepresentexposurethattheGulfWargavetheKurd sisthebeginningOftheendforthis
isolation,orwhetheritisawindowofopportunitythatwil lsoonfade."

Edit: Copying from the source seems to mess things up, I'll fix it later. It should be understandable though.

[Yehiel]

Yes because it cuts up iran

[MarkyMark]

Let me start by saying, you're either an "Assyrian" in disguise, are naive or just plain biased towards Christians. In any case, since you proudly refer to yourself as a Christian, I will re-educate you, using sources that you will understand.

First of all, lets jump back into history and try to understand when the Nestorian and Jacobite adhering Christians suddenly became "Assyrians" and explore the reasons as to why it happened. For the past hundreds of years, Christian Missionaries attempted to convert Kurds to Christianity.

"A book on the history of mission to the Kurds would be slenderindeed.Butahistoryofmission
inKurdistanistwentytimeslarger.Thedifferenceillumi natesourthesis:missionaries
continuedforahundredyearsto"passthroughthewildernessofKurdishmountains,seeking in
themostremotecornersofthelandthelittlecompaniesofC hristians"(Richter1910:316)."

This is something unknown off, however, the British favoured the Kurds before opting for the Arabs. British missionaries commonly visited Kurdistan and tried to convert the Muslims that they refereed to as "Western by language and character" this is because they wanted to create an alliance with us and award us at the end provided that we convert to Christianity.

"Siftthroughtherecord,likeaprospectorpanningforgold ,andtheoccasionalreferenceto
evangelizingKurdsjumpsoffthepages.Ifearthatconcent ratingthesereferencesinoneplace,
inthisbook,maydullthereaders'feelingstohowrarethes enuggetsare.
Wemustthinkaboutthefailuretoestablishchurchesamong theKurds.Wedonotjudgeany
missionaryforhisorherwork;therewardforfaithfulserv iceisnotseeninthisworld.However,
themissioninKurdistanfailed,asmeasuredagainstEliSm ith'sinauguralwords,tofind"the
leverwhichwouldoverturnthewholesystemofMohammedand elusion"(Joseph1961:44)."

Once the British mission failed, they opted for the Aramaic speaking Christians, whom were by documented Ottoman era evidence part of the Kurdish tribal system. ALL the Christians in Mesopotamian, be they Kurd, Aramaic, Armenian or Arab were united and the "Assyrian" nation re-invented. The fact that the Kurdish people denied the British their plans contributed to the "punishment" lashed at out them. Everything that happened to us after WW1 and the decline of the Kurdish people was due to the fact that we did not accept the British plan. Don't forget, we had a 2 year with the Indian British forces that did not succeed until the RAF came in and used chemical bombs on the Kurdish rebellion.

As for Kurds not being Mesopotamian. Well, tell me genius, why did Kurds not adopt the name of their Iranic conquerors like the Persians did? "Kurd" means son of the mountain, and this term can be found in ancient Sumerian and Assyrian sources. "Hennerbichler believes the term Kurd and similar ethnic labels to have been derived from the Sumerian word stem “kur”, meaning mountain." Some history lessons;

"Bytheendofthe8thcenturytheKurdsagainruledKurdistan politically.Kurdsfromoverpopulated
areascontinuedtomigrateandbetweenthe10thand12thcen turiesIslamicKurdsextendedtheirrule
fromYemenandLibyatoCentralAsia.TheydefendedtheMidd leEastagainsttheByzantinesandthe
Crusaders,shapingthecourseofIslamichistory.Duringt hiseratheyexcelledintheartsandsciences.
ThereligiousmovementMazdakhadbegunemergedintheearl yAD800sandledtoacenturyof
uprisingsagainstIslamicrule.SeveralindependentKurd ishdynastiesruledwesternIranandlaterthe
entireFertileCrescent.

Between932and1062ADtheKurdishdynastyofDaylamitessp readfromtheIndianOceantoAnatolia.
DaylamitespracticedtheCultofAngelsmixedwithsomeShi 'iteinfluences.SomeoftheDaylamite
leaderstriedtowipeoutIslam,buttheylosttheirlivesin theattempt.InAD1169theIslamicAyyubids,
underKurdishSaladin,defeatedtheCrusadersandgainedp owerovermuchoftheMiddleEastuntilthe
late15thcentury.ThesemedievalKurdishdynastieswerev erytolerantofJewsandChristians.
KurdishdominanceintheIslamicworldfadedinthebeginni ngofthe13thcentury,andforthenextfour
centuriestheTurkstookcontrol.Turkishnomadsmovedthr oughKurdistantowipeoutmanyofthe
culturesoftheMiddleEast.SmallKurdishkingdomscontin uedtoexistbutpaidtaxestotheTurks.The
majorKurdishpowersdisappeared.TheMongolinvasionsth atfollowedseemedmildcomparedtothe
ruthlessnessoftheTurks."

"InAD1497VascodaGamaroundedtheCapeofGoodHope,andint ernationaltraderoutessoonshifted
awayfromthesilkroad,leavingtheonceimportantKurdist aneconomicallyisolated.InAD1501the
PersianEmpirerevivedandthePersiansandtheOttomansba ttledonKurdishterritory.Kurdistanwas
tornbetweenthetwopowers,bothofwhichbrutallyoppress edtheKurds.Thewarringempiresliterally
burnedoffthelandinthenorthandwest,destroyingagricu ltureandleavingonlythenomadicKurmanj
toscrapealivingofftheland.AlargenumberofKurdswasde portedandresettledinPersiaand
Anatolia.Theonceprogressivesocietyhadbecomeimpover ishedanddevastated."

"TheKurdscontinuetoremainculturallydistinctfromthei rneighbors.Manyofthepeoplewhohave
movedintoKurdistanoverthepast5000yearshavebecometh oroughlyassimilatedintoKurdish
culture,buttheyhavealsoinfluencedit.Onceoneoftheim portantpoliticalandcommercialcentersof
theworld,Kurdistannowisvirtuallyisolatedfromtheres toftheworld.Itistooearlytoascertain
whetherthepresentexposurethattheGulfWargavetheKurd sisthebeginningOftheendforthis
isolation,orwhetheritisawindowofopportunitythatwil lsoonfade."

Edit: Copying from the source seems to mess things up, I'll fix it later. It should be understandable though.

Western Missionaries? You are speaking of 17th, 18th, 19th centuries. Anyways I'm unconvinced by your theory. Yeah their may be some psuedo kurds among the Nestorians but they are few and irrelevant to my personal ancestry. But I do sense that you are still pissed at me, so here's what I say to you: just forget about our argument. I honestly don't hold grudges. But I have a question for you though, that I'm curious about. What ancestry do you think the Jacobites had? I know you think the Assyrians are Kurds but what of those who are more in the western levantine areas that don't identify as Assyrian?

[alanr]

Western Missionaries? You are speaking of 17th, 18th, 19th centuries. Anyways I'm unconvinced by your theory. Yeah their may be some psuedo kurds among the Nestorians but they are few and irrelevant to my personal ancestry. But I do sense that you are still pissed at me, so here's what I say to you: just forget about our argument. I honestly don't hold grudges. But I have a question for you though, that I'm curious about. What ancestry do you think the Jacobites had? I know you think the Assyrians are Kurds but what of those who are more in the western levantine areas that don't identify as Assyrian?

I don't need to convince you and neither am I pissed with you, as I don't even personally know you. This is the truth. I have countless sources that state very clearly that the missionaries concluded that in order to convert the Kurds, the "Assyrian church" had to be reinvented. The mere fact that the ancient Assyrians survived through an Aramaic Christian society is a joke. These people are no more Assyrian than anyone else in Mesopotamia. Modern day "Assyrians" are just Christians of the region, composing of Semite, Iranic and Turkic people. I'm not going to spend much more time on this and you're free to enter British Missionaries Kurdistan into google books and read for yourself. You will find journals and diaries in which these missionaries admit to the nature of their "missions" you will also find that the Christian community were part of the Kurdish tribes and did not have separate tribes of their own, at least within the boundaries of Kurdistan.

Now this is the land time I will tell you. This land is our land. Kurdistan means land of the mountain people, be that Iranic, semite, christian, muslim or what have you.

[MarkyMark]

I don't need to convince you and neither am I pissed with you, as I don't even personally know you. This is the truth. I have countless sources that state very clearly that the missionaries concluded that in order to convert the Kurds, the "Assyrian church" had to be reinvented. The mere fact that the ancient Assyrians survived through an Aramaic Christian society is a joke. These people are no more Assyrian than anyone else in Mesopotamia. Modern day "Assyrians" are just Christians of the region, composing of Semite, Iranic and Turkic people. I'm not going to spend much more time on this and you're free to enter British Missionaries Kurdistan into google books and read for yourself. You will find journals and diaries in which these missionaries admit to the nature of their "missions" you will also find that the Christian community were part of the Kurdish tribes and did not have separate tribes of their own, at least within the boundaries of Kurdistan.

Now this is the land time I will tell you. This land is our land. Kurdistan means land of the mountain people, be that Iranic, semite, christian, muslim or what have you.

Alright, now are you going to answer my question about those who never identified as Assyrian and lived in western Syria and Lebanon? I am curious about your opinion..

[Yaroslav]

NOOOOO!

[Hong Key]

No because Diversity is our greatest strength.

[LightHouse89]

The Baloch are still the majority of their region. They have always wanted to have their own independent state. They have been forced to be in Iran and Pakistan. I believe they have right to their own self-determination.

What about the Kurds?

[alanr]

Alright, now are you going to answer my question about those who never identified as Assyrian and lived in western Syria and Lebanon? I am curious about your opinion..

They are irrelevant to me. My concern are the people that live within the boundaries of Kurdistan.

[alanr]

Mark here watch this,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdWMIZU4gsA

Listen to the priest say

"The Peshmerga protects us, the Iraqi government does not. If the Peshmerga ever withdraws, we're all dead"

Considering the fact that my people risk their lives to protect the fellow Christian mountain people, I don't appreciate the bigotry and ignorance portrayed by their western folk.