Greeks, Jews and Southern Italians are Equally white in genes/phenotype

[GrebluBro]

I strongly believe that
Greeks, Jews and Southern Italians are (roughly) Equally white in genes/phenotype.

Meaning European component is pretty much same among all these three groups.
West-Asian/Levant covers most of the other non-European genes of them.

Please answer poll.

[YeshAtid]

Correct

[Sikeliot]

All three are roughly the same, but Jews the least and Greeks the most European. Southern Italians are intermediate.

[YeshAtid]

All three are roughly the same, but Jews the least and Greeks the most European. Southern Italians are intermediate.

AJs are ethnic Sicilians however

[GrebluBro]

AJs are ethnic Sicilians however

AJs got ligher or Sicilians got darker over the past 2000 years mostly due to climate.

[Sikeliot]

Based on the DNA results I have seen, I will say:

"All three are roughly the same" -- phenotypically this is true
"Greeks have more Euro genes" -- mainland Greeks make up the largest percent of the population, and they have less non-European elements
"Jews have the least Euro genes" -- they have higher SW Asian elements and more of an affinity to N. Africa

[YeshAtid]

AJs got ligher or Sicilians got darker over the past 2000 years mostly due to climate.
True, Sicilians are part Judean anyhow

[Sikeliot]

AJs got ligher or Sicilians got darker over the past 2000 years mostly due to climate.

Both got lighter.

Jews have mixed with Europeans, and the original Sicilians (before you got all of the Norman, Italic, Lombard etc. elements in the Middle Ages) would have been a Neolithic population who would have looked like Phoenicians pretty much.

[GrebluBro]

Based on the DNA results I have seen, I will say:

"All three are roughly the same" -- phenotypically this is true
"Greeks have more Euro genes" -- mainland Greeks make up the largest percent of the population, and they have less non-European elements
"Jews have the least Euro genes" -- they have higher SW Asian elements and more of an affinity to N. Africa

great points and I have already known it :) anyways thanks!

Relatively darker skin among Greeks and South Italians put them aside in many cases.

[Sikeliot]

great points and I have already known it :) anyways thanks!

Relatively darker skin among Greeks and South Italians put them aside in many cases.

Greek islanders on the other hand are nearly identical to southern Italians in all respects, especially the Calabrese and Lucanians.

[YeshAtid]

Greek islanders on the other hand are nearly identical to southern Italians in all respects, especially the Calabrese and Lucanians.

Are they the furthest from AJs?

[Dynamo]

Roughly what is the percentage( euro components)? For all three?

[Sikeliot]

Are they the furthest from AJs?

No.

Southern Italians (Calabrese, Lucanians etc), Sicilians, Greek islanders, and Jews are all similar. Mainland Greeks are more "European" genetically than all of them, due to influence from the north.

[GrebluBro]

Roughly what is the percentage( euro components)? For all three?

85-65%
Highest to lowest
Greeks, Southern Italians, Jews

[GrebluBro]

more votes!!

[Sikeliot]

The only thing obvious is that Greeks have the most European, or rather the least North African, Arabian, SW Asian and SSA.

[GrebluBro]

The only thing obvious is that Greeks have the most European, or rather the least North African, Arabian, SW Asian and SSA.

About 20% of Greeks easily pass in North-Western Europe.

[Sikeliot]

About 20% of Greeks easily pass in North-Western Europe.

Central Europe I'd say.
Some of the Pontid types are pseudo-Atlanto Med though.

Southern Italy has some Atlantid-influenced types that can fit in Central-Western Europe like the Alps and France, too.

[GrebluBro]

bump

[Anglojew]

It's wrong to equate Euro genes with whiteness. Almost all Europeans are white but not all whites are European. Europids have always lived outside of Europe's borders.

[GrebluBro]

It's wrong to equate Euro genes with whiteness. Almost all Europeans are white but not all whites are European. Europids have always lived outside of Europe's borders.

Some Greeks, South-Italians, Jews look very atypical European simply because of some West-Asian influence.

This thread is based on that logic alone.

[Prince Carlo]

Mainland Greeks aren't the majority of Greeks, considering that they have imported over 2 milions of asiatic Greeks on the mainland in 1920. On the Eutest they are roughly the same. Pure mainland Greeks are 10% more Northern than the other 2.

[GrebluBro]

//.


//.


You voted?
which options?

[Trun]

Mainland Greeks aren't the majority of Greeks, considering that they have imported over 2 milions of asiatic Greeks on the mainland in 1920. On the Eutest they are roughly the same. Pure mainland Greeks are 10% more Northern than the other 2.

1.5 million to be precise. Greece at that time had population of over 6 million. Majority of Greeks are mainland Greeks.

[Anglojew]

Some Greeks, South-Italians, Jews look very atypical European simply because of some West-Asian influence.

This thread is based on that logic alone.

Ashkenazi Jews show the second highest rate of Neolithic European, Early European Farmer (EEF) DNA, of any group http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?107551-Y-DNA-I-found-in-Mesolithic-Sweden(-I1)-and-Luxemburg-alot-of-other-good-stuff&highlight=Haplogroup

Near east EEF WHG ANE
Ashkenazi_Jew 93.1 0 6.9
Maltese 93.2 0 6.8

Study; http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2013/12/23/001552.DC1/001552-1.pdf




You're wrong. Ashkenazi Jews are pure Europids.

[Stormer99]

http://www.disnorge.no/cms/system/files/offentlige_filer/Haplogroup-R1b-U106%20Eupedia.gif

[GrebluBro]

You're wrong. Ashkenazi Jews are pure Europids.


they are white, so is any darkest Sicilian.

But genetically no one can be pure, so please loose yourself from your belief and vote in the poll.

[GrebluBro]

[IMG]

Say what do you think about these three groups pertaining to this thread.

answer poll as well.

[Prince Carlo]

1.5 million to be precise. Greece at that time had population of over 6 million. Majority of Greeks are mainland Greeks.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/DeportaLausanne.jpg

The asiatic Greeks were 20% of total population by 1928. :lol:

BTW The total population of Greece includes many Albanians and Fyromians.

[Trun]

BTW The total population of Greece includes many Albanians and Fyromians.

There were no Fyromians in Greece at that time. There were around 300 000 Bulgarians, most of them left for Bulgaria. Those who remained are Hellenized today, with minority who consider themselves "Macedonian".

[paksaltopam]

Greeks and Italians are similar. There are too many kinds of Jews to compare.

[GrebluBro]

Greeks and Italians are similar. There are too many kinds of Jews to compare.

Ya..but the thread is about genetics and phenotype of all these three groups.
Contrary to how they look, Greeks got more European genes than Jews

[Dianatomia]

What do people consider European genes? R1 and I? Because most Europeans have E3b and J2 as well. Jews have a lot of J1 which is semitic. This makes them less European as Greeks or South Italians. In a way, Finland, Estonia, Latvia and many Russians have less European genes than even Jews.

By the way, mainland Greeks, Greeks from Asia minor and Aegean Greeks do not differ that much in North European ancestry. Only Northern Greeks (Macedonia and Thrace) are a bit more northern than the rest.

[Prince Carlo]

Don't forget that there are about 600.000/700.000 Greek Cypriots, who are still Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Ya..but the thread is about genetics and phenotype of all these three groups.
Contrary to how they look, Greeks got more European genes than Jews

Greeks don't look less European than Jews.



Don't forget that there are about 600.000/700.000 Greek Cypriots, who are still Greeks.

Those are the Greeks who actually look like your people.. certainly Epirotes, Macedonians, and Thracians don't.

[Prince Carlo]

Greeks don't look less European than Jews.

Those are the Greeks who actually look like your people.. certainly Epirotes, Macedonians, and Thracians don't.

xD

Yes why not. "Macedonian" Greeks are 50% Armenian looking Anatolians. So are many Thracians and Epirotes.

[Sikeliot]

xD

Yes why not. "Macedonian" Greeks are 50% Armenian looking Anatolians. So are many Thracian Greeks.

They are of Pontic descent, and come from right next to the Caucasus.
Still, even with their influence, mainland Greeks are more "northern" genetically than people from Campania and certainly more so than Calabrese.

[Prince Carlo]

They are of Pontic descent, and come from right next to the Caucasus.
Still, even with their influence, mainland Greeks are more "northern" genetically than people from Campania and certainly more so than Calabrese.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?102824-north-vs-south-why-the-hate&p=2122648&viewfull=1#post2122648

Mainland Greeks are at 13 in Oracle, while Cypriots are at 17.

[Sikeliot]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?102824-north-vs-south-why-the-hate&p=2122648&viewfull=1#post2122648

Mainland Greeks are at 13 in Oracle, while Cypriots are at 17.

Oh. For some Sicilians especially those in the west of the island, the two come in at equal distance.

[Trun]

xD

Yes why not. "Macedonian" Greeks are 50% Armenian looking Anatolians. So are many Thracians and Epirotes.

Bullshit. Have you ever been in North Greece?

[Hellenas]

xD

Yes why not. "Macedonian" Greeks are 50% Armenian looking Anatolians. So are many Thracians and Epirotes.

Macedonian Greeks have nothing to do with Armenian look, only the minority of Pontian Greeks among Greek Macedonians have an armenoid influence, not rest of Greek Macedonians. Thracians are Meds and Epirotes Alpines with Dinaric and Med influence.

[GrebluBro]

//

When population transfer happened between Turkey and Greece, I read that some Muslim-Greeks stayed in Turkey and Christian-Turks moved to Greece.

It seems few conversions happened among Turks and Greeks..

You know numbers??

[Prince Carlo]

Armenian/Georgian legacy in Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians_in_Greece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgians_in_Greece

Famous Georgians in Greece

Giorgi Shermadini

http://sportall.ambebi.ge/images/new_photo/QARTULI/BASKETBALL/Legion/giorgishermadini/giorgi-shermadini-21092012-00123.jpg

Ilias Iliadis

http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/ilias-iliadis-2011-8-26-12-52-48.jpg

Tamta

http://ilarge.listal.com/image/2373627/936full-tamta.jpg

Pure aryans.

[tamilgangster]

Jews are not a race, there are jews from many different racial types, there are malayali jews, ethiopian jews, etc. But im assuming u mean ashkenazi. Id say greeks would be the least white of the bunch

[GrebluBro]

Jews are not a race, there are jews from many different racial types, there are malayali jews, ethiopian jews, etc. But im assuming u mean ashkenazi. Id say greeks would be the least white of the bunch

You go by skin color ??

Greeks are darker but European genes are more in them..Jews also got majority European genes but for some reason they are lighter.

OVerall, all three groups are roughly same

[Prince Carlo]

A better photo of Ilias Iliadis

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/51181951-ilias-iliadis-of-greece-receives-the-medal-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QAPEjhR5jlDCG2Y0%2F09lxicI72 UAVqHJ5zupyF1%2FdfLLWSo%2BKc9gxK%2FEgigXsz3drQ%3D% 3D

Him with his Georgian cousin Zurab Zviadauri

http://judo.com.gr/thumbs/ilias.zurab.1.jpg

http://timer.ge/uploads/posts/2013-01/1358324963_zurab_zviadauri_1.jpg

[Hellenas]

When population transfer happened between Turkey and Greece, I read that some Muslim-Greeks stayed in Turkey and Christian-Turks moved to Greece.

It seems few conversions happened among Turks and Greeks..

You know numbers??

No "Christian Turks" ever moved to Greece, just Greek Orthodox christians citizens of Turkey

Greek genocide

Origins

"The Greek presence in Asia Minor has been dated to at least the time of Homer around 800BC. Prior to their conquest by the Turkic people the Greeks were one of several indigenous peoples living in Asia Minor."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide#cite_note-11

Greek refugees

"Greek refugees is a collective term used to refer to the Greeks from Asia Minor who were evacuated or relocated in Greece following the Treaty of Lausanne and the Population exchange between Greece and Turkey."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_refugees

Population exchange between Greece and Turkey

"The 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey (Greek: Ç ÁíôáëëáãÞ, Turkish: Mübadele) was based upon religious identity, and involved the Greek Orthodox citizens of Turkey and the Muslim citizens of Greece. It was a major compulsory population exchange, or agreed mutual expulsion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey

Greek refugees

Population strength

"Today, about 40% of the population of Greece claims full or partial descent from the Asia Minor refugees; as does an almost equal percentage of diasporan Greeks."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_refugees

They were Greeks, that's why Greeks have zero mongoloid admixture.

[GrebluBro]

^thanks bro

[GrebluBro]

bump

[StonyArabia]

South Italians and Greeks have neolithic influence.

[GrebluBro]

South Italians and Greeks have neolithic influence.

I've seen some Italians playing Jewish role in movies

[GrebluBro]

bump

[wvwvw]

Mainland Greeks aren't the majority of Greeks, considering that they have imported over 2 milions of asiatic Greeks on the mainland in 1920. On the Eutest they are roughly the same. Pure mainland Greeks are 10% more Northern than the other 2.

No you idiot Anatolian Greeks aren't the same as Pontic Greeks and they weren't "Asiatic" they were Greeks. And they weren't 2,000,000 retard but 1,200,000, of whom 130,000 were Pontic Greeks,mthey were and still are overwelmingly minority among mainland Greeks

[wvwvw]

A better photo of Ilias Iliadis

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/51181951-ilias-iliadis-of-greece-receives-the-medal-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QAPEjhR5jlDCG2Y0%2F09lxicI72 UAVqHJ5zupyF1%2FdfLLWSo%2BKc9gxK%2FEgigXsz3drQ%3D% 3D[/IMG

Him with his Georgian cousin Zurab Zviadauri

[IMG]http://judo.com.gr/thumbs/ilias.zurab.1.jpg

http://timer.ge/uploads/posts/2013-01/1358324963_zurab_zviadauri_1.jpg

He is adopted moron what's your point? Fucking gypsy Nordcapelli

[wvwvw]

When population transfer happened between Turkey and Greece, I read that some Muslim-Greeks stayed in Turkey and Christian-Turks moved to Greece.

It seems few conversions happened among Turks and Greeks..

You know numbers??

No such thing as "Christian Turks", the Christians of the Ottoman Empire were Orthodox Greeks who also spoke Greek as their native tongue and were Greeks, the Armenians who had their own Armenian Orthodoxy, and Assyrians in S.East turkey and Iran where they also had their own church.

There were no conversions of Turks to Christianity. The punishment in Islam for apostacy is death. No Turk could convert to islam and live to see the next day.

Even today in year 2014 apostates are put to death in many Islamic countries. You can imagine how much worse things were then.

[wvwvw]

......

[GrebluBro]

//

Greek Cypriots are obviously a mix of Greeks & Levantines and speak Greek...
By genotype/phnenotype, who they resemble more?

[wvwvw]

Greek Cypriots are obviously a mix of Greeks & Levantines and speak Greek...
By genotype/phnenotype, who they resemble more?

Indians

[GrebluBro]

Indians

Greek Cypriots are full-blooded Greeks ?

Earlier, I guessed Levantine admixure cuz the Cyprus is very close to Levant & Far from Greece

[wvwvw]

Greek Cypriots are full-blooded Greeks ?

They are Greeks with different admixture than other Greeks. Cyprus never had an IE invasion for example, but had Phoenicians. Some resemble Greeks more, and some Cypriots resemble the lebanese most.

[Prince Carlo]

No you idiot Anatolian Greeks aren't the same as Pontic Greeks and they weren't "Asiatic" they were Greeks. And they weren't 2,000,000 retard but 1,200,000, of whom 130,000 were Pontic Greeks,mthey were and still are overwelmingly minority among mainland Greeks

1,200,000 immigrated in Greece as far as 1928, but there were 2,000,000 of Greeks in the whole Anatolia and Caucasus area before 1923. Obviosuly they all went to Greece after 1928.


He is adopted moron what's your point? Fucking gypsy Nordcapelli

I've said that he is Georgian descent and not Greek. So what's your problem?

[wvwvw]

1,200,000 immigrated in Greece as far as 1928, but there were 2,000,000 of Greeks in the whole Anatolia and Caucasus area before 1923. Obviosuly they all went to Greece after 1928.

I've said that he is Georgian descent and not Greek. So what's your problem?

Yeah there were 2,000,000 Greeks in Turkey, correct, but a great number of Greeks had already died in death marches, so obviously they weren't 2 million anymore. Google Pontic Genocide.

They didn't all went to Greece. In fact a huge number of them emigrated to USA, Austraiia and Germany.

That guy Ilias Iliadis that you posted is not even Georgian but Central Asian.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Nygreeks.jpg
"Turks Slaughter Christian Greeks", The Lincoln Daily Star (article), October 19, 1917.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greekgeno.jpg
Newspaper published by The Scotsman on July 20th 1915 entitled, Greek Population of Turkey, A Crisis At Aivali

According to various sources the Greek death toll in the Pontus region of Anatolia ranges from 300,000 to 360,000. Estimates for the death toll of Anatolian Greeks as a whole are significantly higher, a team of American researchers found in the early postwar period that the total number of Greeks killed may approach 900,000 people.

According to the figures by the Greek government a total of one million people were estimated to be massacred.[47]
According to the International League for the Rights and Liberation of Peoples, between 1916 and 1923, up to 350,000 Greek Pontians were reportedly killed in massacres, persecution and death marches. Merrill D. Peterson cites the death toll of 360,000 for the Greeks of Pontus. According to George K. Valavanis "The loss of human life among the Pontian Greeks, since the Great War (World War I) until March 1924, can be estimated at 353,000, as a result of murders, hangings, and from punishment, disease, and other hardships."

Constantine G Hatzidimitriou writes that "loss of life among Anatolian Greeks during the WWI period and its aftermath was approximately 735,370."[51] Edward Hale Bierstadt states that "According to official testimony, the Turks since 1914 have slaughtered in cold blood 1,500,000 Armenians, and 500,000 Greeks, men women and children, without the slightest provocation."At the Lausanne conference in late 1922 the British Foreign Minister Lord Curzon is recorded as saying "a million Greeks have been killed or have died."

In 1916, Emanuel Efendi, a Ottoman deputy, said that "550,000 Greeks... were killed."

[Maleficent]

Added this up and took note awhile back to compare myself to the top three ethnicities I'm genetically closest to:

Non Euro According to EUtest

Average Ashkenazi: 55.85% Non-European

Average Sicilian: 54.57% Non-European

Average Greek: 55.45%Non-European

Me: 50.78% Non-European

I was only counting North-Central_Euro, Atlantic, West_Med, South_Baltic, and East_Euro as European components, of course.

[Prince Carlo]

Yeah there were 2,000,000 Greeks in Turkey, correct, but a great number of Greeks had already died in death marches, so obviously they weren't 2 million anymore. Google Pontic Genocide.

There were 1,818,000 Greeks in Anatolia alone as far as 1923. The sources you have quoted date from 1915 and 1916. I dunno how many Greeks there were in Caucasus and the Levant. Perhaps between 100 and 200 thousands.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/DeportaLausanne.jpg


They didn't all went to Greece. In fact a huge number of them emigrated to USA, Austraiia and Germany.

So did many mainland Greeks. Scholarios posted a complete list of Greek diasporas, with many reliable sources, and most of them seemed to be from Central and Northern Greece.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks from the western Anatolian coast, of which I share with a few on 23andme, cluster near Sicilians. It's Pontians that are outliers.

But what we must remember is, when we see mainland Greeks on Dodecad, Eurogenes, 23andme etc. we are seeing people who do already have the Anatolian and Pontic mixed in.. so without it, they'd be clustering more northern. You can see among even Thessalian and Central Greeks on the new Eurogenes plot that some are much more southern than others.. those are the ones with Anatolian and Pontic ancestry.

[Dianatomia]

Thessaly and central Greece did not receive refugees from asia minor.

[Trun]

I was only counting North-Central_Euro, Atlantic, West_Med, South_Baltic, and East_Euro as European components, of course.

What makes the Caucasus component non European?

[Prince Carlo]

Because otherwise syrians and kurds would be 80 pc european.

[Kamal900]

Greeks from the western Anatolian coast, of which I share with a few on 23andme, cluster near Sicilians. It's Pontians that are outliers.

But what we must remember is, when we see mainland Greeks on Dodecad, Eurogenes, 23andme etc. we are seeing people who do already have the Anatolian and Pontic mixed in.. so without it, they'd be clustering more northern. You can see among even Thessalian and Central Greeks on the new Eurogenes plot that some are much more southern than others.. those are the ones with Anatolian and Pontic ancestry.

Are the Anatolian Greeks genetically predominately West-Asiatic or European? And which regions they plot/cluster with the most?

[Styrian Mujo]

Are the Anatolian Greeks genetically predominately West-Asiatic or European? And which regions they plot/cluster with the most?
Lets just say that Arabs can pass better in Greece than Greeks can even pass in southern Germany.

[Maleficent]

What makes the Caucasus component non European?

I know it peaks somewhat relatively high in certain parts of Europe, but there seems to be so much debate as to whether it should be considered European. It still peaks and originates outside of Europe. There was also a bit of debate as to whether the East Med component is European when EUtest first came out(it's not).

[Sikeliot]

Are the Anatolian Greeks genetically predominately West-Asiatic or European? And which regions they plot/cluster with the most?

Anatolian Greeks are similar to southern Italians and Cypriots.
Pontians are Hellenized Black Sea natives, like Georgians.
Cypriots are Hellenized Levantines with minor Greek input.
Mainland Greeks have more northern influence, be it Indo-European or Slavic.
Aegean islanders are intermediate between mainland Greeks and southern Italians, but slightly closer to the latter.

[Kamal900]

Anatolian Greeks are similar to southern Italians and Cypriots.
Pontians are Hellenized Black Sea natives, like Georgians.
Cypriots are Hellenized Levantines with minor Greek input.
Mainland Greeks have more northern influence, be it Indo-European or Slavic.
Aegean islanders are intermediate between mainland Greeks and southern Italians, but slightly closer to the latter.

So the Anatolian Greeks are genetically West-Asiatic like Turks and Cypriots? I wonder how they look like though? maybe they resemble to western Turks or racially Anatolid?

[Sikeliot]

So the Anatolian Greeks are genetically West-Asiatic like Turks and Cypriots? I wonder how they look like though? maybe they resemble to western Turks or racially Anatolid?

They are similar to southern Italians more or less.
Cypriots are more West Asian than both, as are Pontians (since both groups are Hellenized, and have very little genetic Greek ancestry).

[Kamal900]

They are similar to southern Italians more or less.
Cypriots are more West Asian than both, as are Pontians (since both groups are Hellenized, and have very little genetic Greek ancestry).

I've seen pontic Greeks that can pass as Israelis or Transcaucasians. What's their racial phenotype? Are they Armenoids?

[wvwvw]

Pontic Greeks and Cypriots have always been the most isolated populations. Anatolian Greeks look like regular Greeks only slightly more med.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2a6p7wx.jpg

[Faklon]

Thessaly and central Greece did not receive refugees from asia minor.

They did actually.

Especially Euboea and Attica,Thessaly also received some.

[wvwvw]

I've seen pontic Greeks that can pass as Israelis or Transcaucasians. What's their racial phenotype? Are they Armenoids?

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

[Kamal900]

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

what does this having anything to do with anything? Ya kaleb!

[Sikeliot]

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

There are Palestinians who can pass as Sicilians.

Anyway about Pontians, to me they look kind of similar to Georgians, and to some extent, Armenians. Others look more Balkan, but genetically they are distinct. They might look more like mainstream Greeks than a Cypriot would, though.

Anatolian Greeks are more or less like Aegean islanders -- a more "Med" version of mainlanders.

[Faklon]

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

I knew one,she wasn't the most pan-European face but certainly different than the stereotypical Yemeni or Egyptian.

[wvwvw]

I knew one,she wasn't the most pan-European face but certainly different than the stereotypical Yemeni or Egyptian.

I always confuse them with yemenis but anyway.

[Kamal900]

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

First, i don't look Yemeni nor Egyptian you bitch, I look Levantine along with my family. Palestinians can have a variety of looks depends on the region. Don't try to change the subject of this thread and i'm talking to Sikeliot, not you. So fuck off.

[Faklon]

First, i don't look Yemeni nor Egyptian you bitch, I look Levantine along with my family. Palestinians can have a variety of looks depends on the region. Don't try to change the subject of this thread and i'm talking to Sikeliot, not you. So fuck off.

Well bitch,it's called an opinion.

[Kamal900]

There are Palestinians who can pass as Sicilians.

Anyway about Pontians, to me they look kind of similar to Georgians, and to some extent, Armenians. Others look more Balkan, but genetically they are distinct. They might look more like mainstream Greeks than a Cypriot would, though.

Anatolian Greeks are more or less like Aegean islanders -- a more "Med" version of mainlanders.

So the pontic Greeks cluster with Turks and Armenians?

[wvwvw]

what does this having anything to do with anything? Ya kaleb!

It has everything to do with your yemeni armenoid ugly race. instead of commenting about things you know nothing about take a look in your armenoid yemeni brothers who pretend they have something to do with ancient Phoenicians.

[Kamal900]

Well bitch,it's called an opinion.

She's the one who changed the subject just to insult me. I'm just talking to my friend about Greek phenotypes in each region.

[Faklon]

Gamiseta

[Kamal900]

It has everything to do with your yemeni armenoid ugly race. instead of commenting about things you know nothing about take a look in your armenoid yemeni brothers who pretend they have something to do with ancient Phoenicians.

Lol, I'm racially Armenoid with East Med, along with my family. Why are you insulting me? I'm just talking with my friend. Don't try to change this into a senseless flame war.

[wvwvw]

So the pontic Greeks cluster with Turks and Armenians?

No moron, there's no such thing as Pontic Greek today, only Greeks with Pontic Ancestry and those are the minority. And Pontic Greeks aren't hellenized people just Greeks with more caucasian admixture. Even Gerogians have a whoping 20% Greek ancestry.

Even modern day black sea Turks carry significant Greek Pontic Ancestry with some Turanid influences. A turk told me that black sea Turks are the lightest Turks in turkey and that they look 'like a cross of Pontic Greeks and Georgians.'

[Kamal900]

No moron, there's no such thing as Pontic Greek today, only Greeks with Pontic Ancestry and those are the minority. And Pontic Greeks aren't hellenized people just Greeks with more caucasian admixture. Even Gerogians have a whoping 20% Greek ancestry.

Again, why are you frustrated? I'm just asking questions. If pontic cluster with Greeks with minor caucasian admixture then it's fine. You didn't need to insult me and my people for it.

[StonyArabia]

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

No they don't I am familiar with Palestinians and they look like Lebanese the majority, we'll some will look like Egyptians due to geography like in Gaza. Some Negev Bedouin tribes are of Yemenite origins. There is nothing wrong with looking like an Egyptian or a Yemenite both areas have very rich history and culture.

[Sikeliot]

No moron, there's no such thing as Pontic Greek today, only Greeks with Pontic Ancestry and those are the minority. And Pontic Greeks aren't hellenized people just Greeks with more caucasian admixture. Even Gerogians have a whoping 20% Greek ancestry.

Georgians and Pontic Greeks are probably close to the same people genetically.. Georgians do have Greek ancestry, too.
Pontians are probably Colchians who were Hellenized, with some Greek admixture.

But on 23andme, all Greeks except Pontians score some "Balkan" and "Italian".. Pontians come up 90% "Middle Eastern".

[Smeagol]

What makes the Caucasus component non European?

It's not.

[Kamal900]

Georgians and Pontic Greeks are probably close to the same people genetically.. Georgians do have Greek ancestry, too.
Pontians are probably Colchians who were Hellenized, with some Greek admixture.

But on 23andme, all Greeks except Pontians score some "Balkan" and "Italian".. Pontians come up 90% "Middle Eastern".

Well, what about Southern Italains? How much percentage of West Asian admixture do they have?

[Sikeliot]

Well, what about Southern Italains? How much percentage of West Asian admixture do they have?

They are the genetic equivalent of half northern Italian, half Levantine.

[Smeagol]

It still peaks and originates outside of Europe.

I consider Georgians to be European.

[Kamal900]

I consider Georgians to be European.

Not really. Georgians plot with other trancaucasians and other west Asians like Turks. All Europeans are genetically related to one another and form their own cluster, while the West Asiatics form theirs. To be considered European you need to be both phenotypically and genetically European.

[wvwvw]

Georgians and Pontic Greeks are probably close to the same people genetically.. Georgians do have Greek ancestry, too.
Pontians are probably Colchians who were Hellenized, with some Greek admixture.

But on 23andme, all Greeks except Pontians score some "Balkan" and "Italian".. Pontians come up 90% "Middle Eastern".

There are Pontics today that live in Turkey and abroad, there are no Pontic Greeks in Greece anymore so how could they have come up with 90% middle eastern? I don't believe for a second this nonsense. Show me a category in dodecad where it says "Pontic Greek" or "Anatolian Greek" there isn't any for a reason.

[Kamal900]

They are the genetic equivalent of half northern Italian, half Levantine.

Are there any other Europeans that can have similar admixture?

[Smeagol]

Not really. Georgians plot with other trancaucasians and other west Asians like Turks. All Europeans are genetically related to one another and form their own cluster, while the West Asiatics form theirs. To be considered European you need to be both phenotypically and genetically European.

No, Georgians look European, and not like Arabs. They only cluster closely to Turks because Turks have a significant amount of European ancestry.

[Kamal900]

No, Georgians look European, and not like Arabs. They only cluster closely to Turks because Turks have a significant amount of European ancestry.

Who ever said Arabs? West Asia is what is now the Near East like Iran, Turkey, Transcaucasia and etc. Turks and other West Asians cluster to one another, while Europeans cluster to each other. They are genetically West-Asians, not European. Turks don't look Arab either and neither the Iranians for that matter. Europeans have a variety of phenotypes but are still genetically close to one another.

[Sikeliot]

There are Pontics today that live in Turkey and abroad, there are no Pontic Greeks in Greece anymore so how could they have come up with 90% middle eastern? I don't believe for a second this nonsense. Show me a category in dodecad where it says "Pontic Greek" or "Anatolian Greek" there isn't any for a reason.

I can show you the results of people I know on there who claim 100% Pontic ancestry.

[Smeagol]

Who ever said Arabs? West Asia is what is now the Near East like Iran, Turkey, Transcaucasia and etc. Turks and other West Asians cluster to one another, while Europeans cluster to each other. They are genetically West-Asians, not European. Turks don't look Arab either and neither the Iranians for that matter. Europeans have a variety of phenotypes but are still genetically close to one another.

Georgians mainly cluster with other Caucasians, and I consider the Caucasus to be part of Europe. Turks are basically a mix of Europeans, and non-European Middle Easterners. Georgians have some non-European influence too, but mostly they're European Europids.

[Kamal900]

Georgians mainly cluster with other Caucasians, and I consider the Caucasus to be part of Europe. Turks are basically a mix of Europeans, and non-European Middle Easterners. Georgians have some non-European influence too, but mostly they're European Europids.

Didn't you listen on what i have said? West Asians cluster to one another, and no, the caucasus is in between Europe and Asia. Armenians, Azeris, Iranians, Kurds, Turks and etc are genetically related to one another and form their own cluster. All Europeans, whether they're Nordic, Denaric, Alpine, Med and etc share the same genetic European ancestry, as in the case to the West Asian peoples. I'm not saying that Georgians don't have any European genes, but they plot mostly to Azeris, Armenians, Iranians and etc, not with Russians or Ukranians.

[YeshAtid]

Again, why are you frustrated? I'm just asking questions. If pontic cluster with Greeks with minor caucasian admixture then it's fine. You didn't need to insult me and my people for it.
Palestinians are predominantly Arab not Levantine.

[Kamal900]

Palestinians are predominantly Arab not Levantine.

I'm not going to bother reply to you. Palestinians, Syrians and Jordanians have Arabian admixture during the Islamic conquest which is why we have such mix Arabids within our populace, much like how the Ashkenazi Jews have european admixture. mtDNA, we share with the rest of the levant. This thread is about Greeks, not Palestinians, so get away for me.

[YeshAtid]

I'm not going to bother reply to you. Palestinians, Syrians and Jordanians have Arabian admixture during the Islamic conquest which is why we have such mix Arabids within our populace, much like how the Ashkenazi Jews have european admixture. mtDNA, we share with the rest of the levant. This thread is about Greeks, not Palestinians, so get away for me.
Palestinians are Arabians who invaded Israel and claim to be native. Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly Levantine.

[Kamal900]

Palestinians are Arabians who invaded Israel and claim to be native. Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly Levantine.

go fuck yourself you filthy hook nose kike. stupid troll.

[YeshAtid]

go fuck yourself you filthy hook nose kike. stupid troll.
I see you're residing in the Arabian Peninsula, your homeland.
Hooked noses are a Levantine trait :thumb001:
My nose isn't especially hooked, habibi.

[Loki]

Palestinians are Arabians who invaded Israel and claim to be native.

No, not true.

[YeshAtid]

No, not true.
study by the University of Chicago found that Arab populations, including Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouin, have at least some sub-Saharan African genes. Non-Arabs from the region, including Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Azeris, Georgians, and Jews did not have any African roots. [1] A possible explanation is the proximity of the Arabian peninsula to the Black African nations. This conclusion is favored by the fact that Yemenite Arabs have 35% Black African genes in their mtDNA (which passes through the mother), while others have less. Yemen, of course, is very close geographically to several Black African nations. Other Arabs, especially those far away from the Arabian peninsula, have as little as 10% African blood in their mtDNA. As such, it is possible that the African gene was merely diluted by the introduction of non-Arab (and non-African) genes to the pool when Arabs began to conquer other Middle East people after the rise of Islam. The "real" Arabs -- those who have Arab ancestors stretching beyond the last 1,400 years – are actually 35% Black in their mtDNA. These Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula.[2]

Other populations that are now called ‘Arabs’ became Arabized through intermarriage and adoption of the Arabic language and culture. These people are partially Arab and partially descendants of the nations that lived in their region prior to the rise of the Muslim faith. Just as their "Arab gene" was diluted by mixing with local genes, so too the 35% of the mtDNA that is Black African was diluted and reduced to around 10%.

The reduction of the Black genes from 35% to around 10% also suggests that the large majority (around 70%) of genes belonging to the Arabs outside the Arabian peninsula come from the local nations. The claim is supported by the historical fact that the original Arab population was relatively small and could not have populated a region stretching from Iraq to Morocco with such density, no matter the birthrate (and, in any event, where did the original populations go?). Both historically and genetically, it is almost definite that the Arab population intermarried with locals, including Palestinians, upon their conquest.

Palestinians, however, differ from other Arabs in some ways. As the web site for Harper’s Magazine reported, one study showed that Jews and Palestinians have common ancestry that is so recent that it is highly likely that at least some of the Palestinian blood actually descends from Jews. [3] Another study by New York University confirmed a remarkable similarity between Jewish and Palestinian genes. "Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," said Dr. Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, who worked on the study. "And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years. [4]

According to several other studies, Palestinians and Jews are genetically closer to each other than either is to the Arabs of Arabia or to Europeans [5]. A study of congenital deafness identified an allele limited to Palestinian and Jews of Ashkenazi origin (those who lived in Europe in recent centuries), suggesting a common origin. Furthermore, Y-chromosome polymorphism is very similar among Palestinians and Sephardic Jews. [6]. While current studies show a lot of similarities and genetic closeness may be used to confirm claims of both sides to Israel/Palesitne, but right now, results are incomplete and are subject to much interpretation. [7] The above statements are based on the currently available information, but may be questioned by future studies.

There is a significant Christian population among Palestinian Arabs, leading some to claim that at least part of the Palestinian population (the Christians) descended from the original followers of Christ, who were, of course, Jews (they were Jews ethnically, even if they didn't follow Judaism). Despite extensive research, I have not been able to find any scientific studies supporting this claim.

Furthermore, the fact that there is joint heritage of 2,000-3,000 years ago does not mean that new genes were not introduced into the Palestinian genetic pool. For one, genes from the Arabian peninsula were introduced after the spread of Islam. As part of the Arabian genes, African genes were introduced, as described above.

Several studies have shown that Palestinians have a larger than usual (among Arabs) European blood. This may be explained by the Crusades and the establishment of a Crusader Kingdom in medieval times. It is highly likely that at least some percentage of the Palestinian population mixed with Europeans, either through intermarriage or rape of Arab women by Europeans, as well as European women by Arabs. Additionally, cities with significant Palestinian populations, including Bethlehem, Nazareth and Jerusalem, are sites of many Christian holy landmarks, which draw a large number of European tourists. This, too, may have played a role in the disproportionate amount of European genes found among Palestinians.

In more recent times, among Palestinian Muslims, there is a significant number of people who are recent immigrants from other Arab states. Official records of the Ottoman Empire (colonial power until WWI) and Britain (colonial power from the 1920's to 1948) show that there was very significant Islamic immigration into holy land. In some years, there were more Muslim new-comers than Jewish.

[randomguy1235]

Most of the palestinians I ve seen look like Yemenis and Egyptians. I have never seen a so called 'levantine palestinian' wonder where they are hiding;

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3740/12208549996_cb3cf61cc6_c.jpg

You have now.

[Smeagol]

go fuck yourself you filthy hook nose kike. stupid troll.

It's funny an Arab says that.:laugh:

[YeshAtid]

It's funny an Arab says that.:laugh:
Self loathing much? Palestinians are mulatto Arabs actually.

[Smeagol]

Self loathing much? Palestinians are mulatto Arabs actually.

Well I agree, they look like Sudanese to me.

[YeshAtid]

Well I agree, they look like Sudanese to me.
Randomguy is probably the only Fakestinian with any Levantine blood, no?

[Smeagol]

Randomguy is probably the only Fakestinian with any Levantine blood, no?

Well what do you mean by Levantine blood? Because there's no such thing as a pure Levantine, they've been a mix of Mediterranids, and Semites (Arabids) since ancient times.

[YeshAtid]

Well what do you mean by Levantine blood? Because there's no such thing as a pure Levantine, they've been a mix of Mediterranids, and Semites (Arabids) since ancient times.
Levantine meaning Israelite in this scenario.

[Smeagol]

Levantine meaning Israelite

He doesn't seem to show JB influence so maybe.

[randomguy1235]

Randomguy is probably the only Fakestinian with any Levantine blood, no?

Fakestinian? You're so creative.

[YeshAtid]

Fakestinian? You're so creative.
It's true nonetheless. Palestine is a recent political phenomenon.

[Loki]

Thread closed for now. I will reopen it later.