Why is "West Asian" considered white in Europeans but not Hispanics?

[Tropico]

a lot of West Asian for "Pure Europeans"..

[Sikeliot]

a lot of West Asian for "Pure Europeans"..

Sicilians, southern Italians, and Greek islanders get a lot of West Asian. Iberians and mainland Greeks also, but they also get much higher (30%+) Atlantic-Baltic.

[Tropico]

Sicilians, southern Italians, and Greek islanders get a lot of West Asian. Iberians and mainland Greeks also, but they also get much higher (30%+) Atlantic-Baltic.

Hypocritical that when a New World person gets West Asian its classified as Jewish or Moorish ancestry but when its a Euro who shows West Asian its "Neolithic".

[HellLander87]

a lot of West Asian for Pure Europeans..

[Sikeliot]

Hypocritical that when a New World person gets West Asian its classified as Jewish or Moorish ancestry but when its a Euro who shows West Asian its "Neolithic".

Because Spaniards get so little West Asian, that when you see it in a Hispanic it cannot be Spanish, especially since mestizos in the New World even score more sometimes than full Spaniards do!

[Tropico]

Because Spaniards get so little West Asian, that when you see it in a Hispanic it cannot be Spanish, especially since mestizos in the New World even score more sometimes than full Spaniards do!

Thats not the point I'm making. I mean when European score West Asian its not seen as Non White, but when we do, it is... I don't care anyways because its Caucasoid regardless.

[Stormer99]

Thats not the point I'm making. I mean when European score West Asian its not seen as Non White, but when we do, it is... I don't care anyways because its Caucasoid regardless.
Yes. This is the typical hypocrisy. They base everything on social construct instead of objective genetics.

[YeshAtid]

Yes. This is the typical hypocrisy. They base everything on social construct instead of objective genetics.

Agreed, there are a lot of double standards vis a vis new worlders. But, what's with you liking Hawass?

[Tropico]

Yes. This is the typical hypocrisy. They base everything on social construct instead of objective genetics.

I scored around 9% West Asian on DNA tribes. And usually I get a decent amount of West Asian (or Red Sea, South West Asian, etc) on Gedmatch. Never more than 10% but still. West Asian expansion to Europe was crucial and very important. For them to deny their ancestry is... gross.

[Stormer99]

Agreed, there are a lot of double standards vis a vis new worlders. But, what's with you liking Hawass?

He defends ancient Egypt against Afrocentrists.

[Stormer99]

I scored around 9% West Asian on DNA tribes. And usually I get a decent amount of West Asian (or Red Sea, South West Asian, etc) on Gedmatch. Never more than 10% but still. West Asian expansion to Europe was crucial and very important. For them to deny their ancestry is... gross.

West Asian and Red Sea are different categories on GedMatch. How much of each category do you score on Eurogenes?

[Vesuvian Sky]

I honestly don't know what the big deal is around 'West Asian' but have noticed its the most politicized/controversial component.:rolleyes:

Regardless, its not 'original' to Europe or really 'European'. Neolithic farmers clearly brought it to Europe. Deal with it.

And if someone from any part of the world has it, all it means is they have some type of Neolithic farming ancestry. Sheesh....

[YeshAtid]

He defends ancient Egypt against Afrocentrists.

But the ancient Egyptians weren't negroid, it's obvious lol. Plus, he's a Jew hater

[Tropico]

West Asian and Red Sea are different categories on GedMatch. How much of each category do you score on Eurogenes?

1 North_Atlantic 27.96
2 West_Med 20.05
3 Amerindian 16.33
4 Sub-Saharan 9.28
5 East_Med 8.24
6 Baltic 5.24
7 Red_Sea 4.97
8 West_Asian 4.27
9 Northeast_African 2.02
10 Siberian 1.64

[Tropico]

Woah. lol I sound like I'm trying to start a War.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

1 North_Atlantic 27.96
2 West_Med 20.05
3 Amerindian 16.33
4 Sub-Saharan 9.28
5 East_Med 8.24
6 Baltic 5.24
7 Red_Sea 4.97
8 West_Asian 4.27
9 Northeast_African 2.02
10 Siberian 1.64

Interesting. I wonder how much "West Asian" I score

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Where do I check to know? xD

[Tropico]

Oh and lets not even talk about the preponderance of E-V13 and E-M81 in Southern Europe. I don't see how people can sit here and claim they are pure Europeans with all these halo groups and their admixture in autosomal results. But they will tell you "its small it doesn't matter". I mean, your DIRECT ancestor is Non European. lol Come on .

[Tropico]

Where do I check to know? xD

I just did Gedmatch, Eurogenes K13

[gregorius]

I honestly don't know what the big deal is around 'West Asian' but have noticed its the most politicized/controversial component.:rolleyes:

Regardless, its not 'original' to Europe or really 'European'. Neolithic farmers clearly brought it to Europe. Deal with it.

And if someone from any part of the world has it, all it means is they have some type of Neolithic farming ancestry. Sheesh....

indeed Id probably score the highest amount of caucasus here and I am fucking awesome. :laugh:

[Hadouken]

as a west asian man i will tell you that this doesnt bother me in the slightest

all this "white" talk is funny and interesting but only to a certain point

the obsession with whiteness is just ridiculuous .....especially since the term "white" doesnt matter in most countries and is a nonsense term in the first place because it is so subjective in the first place

[Tropico]

indeed Id probably score the highest amount of caucasus here and I am fucking awesome. :laugh:

Haha I like the non European Caucasoid elements in me. Swarthy is good. ;) Having ancestry from multiple places in the Mediterranean is a good thing. To me anyways.

[Insuperable]

Even if "Mother Nature somehow erases" your "West Asian" ancestry completely you (or other mixed Hispanics) still won't be a white man with all other "stuff". So why do you care?

[gregorius]

Haha I like the non European Caucasoid elements in me. Swarthy is good. ;) Having ancestry from multiple places in the Mediterranean is a good thing. To me anyways.

Your ignorance amaze me, Caucasus isnt a Med place.

[Tropico]

Even if "Mother Nature somehow erases" your "West Asian" ancestry completely you (or other mixed Hispanics) still won't be a white man with all other "stuff". So why do you care?

No one wants it erased. No one here wants to be white. Its just a question of why the hypocrisy exists.

[Tropico]

Your ignorance amaze me, Caucasus isnt a Med place.

I meant MY ancestry douche dick.

[StonyArabia]

West Asians are White, just compare a Circassian to a Purto Rican. West Asians like Circassians are Mongoloid shifted though.

[gregorius]

West Asians are White, just compare a Circassian to a Purto Rican. West Asians like Circassians are Mongoloid shifted though.

The only west asians that are frequently white are North Caucasians, The rest isnt.

[Carlito's Way]

West Asians are White, just compare a Circassian to a Purto Rican. West Asians like Circassians are Mongoloid shifted though.

hes talking about the west asian component in Europeans vs Hispanics
compare yourself to Tropico and see who looks less white :picard1:

[Stormer99]

I meant MY ancestry douche dick.

Components are components. You can't call one person mixed and the other white if they have the same exact DNA. It's very biased and unscientific IMO.

[Insuperable]

No one wants it erased. No one here wants to be white. Its just a question of why the hypocrisy exists.

It was explained nicely. Some Latin Americans score more West Asian than the people from Europe from whom this admixture should came from meaning that your "West Asian" score is partailly of European source or completely from non-European source (less probable probably) no matter if some Europeans still score a lot more of it than you. If it is not from Europe it is not "white" going by modern definition of white.

[StonyArabia]

The only west asians that are frequently white are North Caucasians, The rest isnt.

Yes Circassians are White and are West Asian they have the most of that component. Also they look White. Though are Mongoloid shifted due to the Kipchak khanate and alliance with the Crimean Tatars.

http://s13.postimg.org/kf6twvp07/Circassianprincess3.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


[url=http://postimage.org/]http://s12.postimg.org/6eth4wiel/Adygheasa2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[url=http://postimage.org/]

[Tropico]

It was explained nicely. Some Latin Americans score more West Asian than the people from Europe from whom this admixture should came from meaning that your "West Asian" score is partailly of European source or completely from non-European source (less probable probably) no matter if some Europeans still score a lot more of it than you. If it is not from Europe it is not "white" going by modern definition of white.

My point was that in Hispanics its usually classified as Non European but the SAME West Asian in Europeans would be classified as Neolithic. Neolithic or recent, West Asian is West Asian, they are absorbed in the same reference population.

[Smeagol]

West Asian is basically Georgian, so it depends on weather you consider Stalin White, or not.

[Hadouken]

West Asian is basically Georgian,

oh then i got all this wrong lol

[StonyArabia]

hes talking about the west asian component in Europeans vs Hispanics
compare yourself to Tropico and see who looks less white :picard1:

I am more genetically and phyiscally Caucasoid. I am just mixture of West Asian and South West Asian Caucasoid. Well he has three main major racial groups. He looks like a Mestizo.

[Vesuvian Sky]

indeed Id probably score the highest amount of caucasus here and I am fucking awesome. :laugh:

Tr00thfully, West Asia was critical to the development of Eurasian history.

Its just not where IE languages originate from.

But, many aspects of civilization such as metallurgy, agriculture, proto-urbanization and it looks like now even the wheel originate from 'West Asia'.

So its not bad stock really.:cool:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

There has to be some gradation of what's More european and what's not. Simply moving to somewhere doesn't make it your origin. But I would not be certain that west asian component even comes from west asia, or that it can be taken as a marker of mixing percentage.

[gregorius]

I am more genetically and phyiscally Caucasoid. I am just mixture of West Asian and South West Asian Caucasoid. Well he has three main major racial groups. He looks like a Mestizo.

Indeed,
I think I would be a better example of a west asian though.

[StonyArabia]

Indeed,
I think I would be a better example of a west asian though.

Of course you are, because you lack SouthWest Asian Caucasoid which I have. SouthWest Asian Caucasoid is also distant to West Asian and European but is closer to the Med.

[Tropico]

Mestizo? as in 50% Euro, 50% Amerindian? lol I hope thats not what you meant.

[Carlito's Way]

I am more genetically and phyiscally Caucasoid. I am just mixture of West Asian and South West Asian Caucasoid. Well he has three main major racial groups. He looks like a Mestizo.

he looks more caucasoid than you, you can fit in his country as a triracial with 50% european, in fact you can probably pass as a heavily SSA Puerto Rican triricial from New York
you would be insane to think you look more caucasoid than the average puerto rican from PR hahahaha

[StonyArabia]

he looks more caucasoid than you, you can fit in his country as a triracial with 50% european, in fact you can probably pass as a heavily SSA Puerto Rican triricial from New York
you would be insane to think you look more caucasoid than the average puerto rican from PR hahahaha

LOL what a sad troll you are. Stop trolling me and saying things out of your ass. Since genetics does not agree with you nor my phenotype. I am an Alpinized-Arabid well some say Alpinized-Arabd with Armenoid which makes sense based on my background. No I don't. Stop it really it's lame bro. Why are you waging a self-defeating war.

[Insuperable]

My point was that in Hispanics its usually classified as Non European but the SAME West Asian in Europeans would be classified as Neolithic. Neolithic or recent, West Asian is West Asian, they are absorbed in the same reference population.

Classified by whom?

Do you understand that real northern European with 5% WA is not the same as Latin American with 5%, or in other words nobody gives a shit what to think about your 5% WA?

And do you understand that nobody gives a shit about this reference population you speak about? Only you and objectiverealist (who bas non-European ancestry) care about this shit.

Do you understand that "white" in Europe means much less than in the US? ...just to write it anyway...

Do you understand that reference populations may not mean everything, since who knows what someone can still discover to change our view on this?

[Tropico]

Classified by whom?

Do you understand that real northern European with 5% WA is not the same as Latin American with 5%, or in other words nobody gives a shit what to think about your 5% WA?

And do you understand that nobody gives a shit about this reference population you speak about. Only you and objectiverealist (who bas non-European ancestry) care about this shit?

Do you understand that "white" in Europe means much less than in the US? ...just to write it anyway...

Do you understand that reference populations may not mean everything, since who knows what someone can still discover to change our view on this?

Insults come when there is a lack of a plausible argument.

[Stormer99]

How is it not the same? It's the exact same component in the same exact proportion.

[StonyArabia]

How is it not the same? It's the exact same component in the same exact proportion.

I lack Amerindian admixture and the guy says I look triracial. Heck I don't even have much SSA at all not worth mentioning. I do have a lot of West Asian, Med, and SouthWest Asian anyone can look up my result. I am pred Caucasoid. Anyone can see them since their posted on this very place.

[Carlito's Way]

LOL what a sad troll you are. Stop trolling me and saying things out of your ass. Since genetics does not agree with you nor my phenotype. I am an Alpinized-Arabid well some say Alpinized-Arabd with Armenoid which makes sense based on my background. No I don't. Stop it really it's lame bro. Why are you waging a self-defeating war.

hahahahahahahaha Tropico and the average puerto rican has a better chance passing in Europe than you do, you even stand out among Lebanese people for example hahaha

[Tropico]

Guys this isn't about my or anyone else's phenotypic "whiteness". This is about discussing Old World West Asian in Europeans vs New World West Asian ancestry and discussing if they are the same in origin or not.

[StonyArabia]

hahahahahahahaha Tropico and the average puerto rican has a better chance passing in Europe than you do, you even stand out among Lebanese people for example hahaha

Look, I don't know what is your problem. Honestly you have trolled other people just for kicks. No I can easily pass in Lebanon especially the Southern areas, I can pass in most of the Middle East so no one agrees with you. However my phenotype is mostly found in the Arabian pen. It's not triracial like I have told you it's the most distant Caucasoid to Europeans but closer to Med. Arabids are not found in Europe nor Latin America. It's unique to Arabia. I am Arabid nothing more and nothing less but it's found across the Middle East, and I have some Armenoid probably because of my Kavkazian side. Stop saying things out of your behind. Purto Rican have European admixture of course they will look more European but I am more Caucasoid. Look at my genetics you baboon.

[Carlito's Way]

anyways someone mentioned that spaniards do not get a lot of SW, where are the sources for that? did they test every region of Spain for them to come to that conclusion?

[Stormer99]

I lack Amerindian admixture and the guy says I look triracial. Heck I don't even have much SSA at all not worth mentioning. I do have a lot of West Asian, Med, and SouthWest Asian anyone can look up my result. I am pred Caucasoid. Anyone can see them since their posted on this very place.

I was talking about West Asian in North Europeans vs. West Asian in Latin Americans. I know you are not triracial.

[Carlito's Way]

Look, I don't know what is your problem. Honestly you have trolled other people just for kicks. No I can easily pass in Lebanon especially the Southern areas, I can pass in most of the Middle East so no one agrees with you. However my phenotype is mostly found in the Arabian pen. It's not triracial like I have told you it's the most distant Caucasoid to Europeans but closer to Med.

i dont troll, im honest and dont kiss ass to make people feel better about themselves

[StonyArabia]

i dont troll, im honest and dont kiss ass to make people feel better about themselves

Dude you troll. I have seen you attack ME people for some reason.

[Tropico]

Dude you troll. I have seen you attack ME people for some reason.

Both of you FUCKING STOP or I'm reporting this shit and having it deleted.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I just did Gedmatch, Eurogenes K13

Ok here is my results:

West_Asian -
Red_Sea 2.69%

[Hadouken]

Dude you troll. I have seen you attack ME people for some reason.

why does he attack us ?

[Tropico]

Ok here is my results:

West_Asian -
Red_Sea 2.69%

LOW lol

[Carlito's Way]

why does he attack us ?

hes dumb, dont believe him :picard1:

[StonyArabia]

why does he attack us ?

I have no idea, but he does not like ME people. I have seen him troll me, and troll randomguy. He probably believes we are White wanna bes or something but far from it. He also says iam triracial when genetically I am not but pred-Caucasoid and says i can not pass in Lebanon a troll, I can pass in Lebanon especially Southern Lebanon because my phenotype is quite common there.

[Hadouken]

I have no idea, but he does not like ME people. I have seen him troll me, and troll randomguy. He probably believes we are White wanna bes or something but far from it.

Carlos Carlos Carlos

why dude ? what did we do to you ?

[Tropico]

I have no idea, but he does not like ME people. I have seen him troll me, and troll randomguy. He probably believes we are White wanna bes or something but far from it. He also says iam triracial when genetically I am not but pred-Caucasoid and says i can not pass in Lebanon a troll, I can pass in Lebanon especially Southern Lebanon because my phenotype is quite common there.

What did I fucking say? Stop or I will report both of you guys.

[Carlito's Way]

I have no idea, but he does not like ME people. I have seen him troll me, and troll randomguy. He probably believes we are White wanna bes or something but far from it. He also says iam triracial when genetically I am not but pred-Caucasoid and says i can not pass in Lebanon a troll, I can pass in Lebanon especially Southern Lebanon because my phenotype is quite common there.

oh wow cause i "troll" both of you with the truth, that now means im trolling all Middle Eastern people :picard1: you are so pathetic

[Tropico]

Carlos Carlos Carlos

why dude ? what did we do to you ?

Hes lying. Carlos doesn't troll MENA folk. That MENA version of Gigolo is lying.

[Carlito's Way]

Carlos Carlos Carlos

why dude ? what did we do to you ?

lol hes so pathetic, now i cant tell him the truth cause that means im going against all middle eastern people haha

[Carlito's Way]

anyways, other latinos should post their West Asian percentage to compare

[StonyArabia]

Hes lying. Carlos doesn't troll MENA folk. That MENA version of Gigolo is lying.

Ask Randomguy then. Don't make fun of Asian Alpines bro

[Rambo07]

a lot of West Asian for "Pure Europeans"..

West Asians are Caucasoids but they are not White. White is more of a cultural designation for Europeans.
Hispanic people are mixed with Amerindian or Negroid depending on location.

[Tropico]

West Asians are Caucasoids but they are not White. White is more of a cultural designation for Europeans.
Hispanic people are mixed with Amerindian or Negroid depending on location.

Again. Off topic. This is specifically about New World West Asian vs European West Asian.

[Tropico]

Eurogenes K13 :
Red_Sea 4.97
West_Asian 4.27

[StonyArabia]

They got it from the Moors probably who escaped to the Americas or Sephardim.

[Tropico]

They got it from the Moors probably who escaped to the Americas or Sephardim.

The Moors/Sephardim who escaped werent that numerous. Not enough to account for all of Latin America. Your theory fails on numbers alone.

[Stormer99]

They got it from the Moors probably who escaped to the Americas or Sephardim.

Or in some cases Canary Islanders.

[Carlito's Way]

Or in some cases Canary Islanders.

yeah im thinking Canary Islanders

[Han Cholo]

The Moors/Sephardim who escaped werent that numerous. Not enough to account for all of Latin America. Your theory fails on numbers alone.

All of Latin America score high west asian and red sea? Seems fishy?

[Tropico]

yeah im thinking Canary Islanders

Much more Possible. How much West Asian do they score? (exclude North African obviously).

[StonyArabia]

The Moors/Sephardim who escaped werent that numerous. Not enough to account for all of Latin America. Your theory fails on numbers alone.

Since the discussion has turned serious. I would say they might have contributed to the West Asian found in Latinos/Hispanics. Also many Sephardim were crypto-Jews not open about it, and this might have been also true of the Moors who might have ended up in the Americas. Also the Canary Islanders

This might interest you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TIi0maJZQU

forward to 3:03


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiDMP_KJg4

[Carlito's Way]

Since the discussion has turned serious. I would say they might have contributed to the West Asian found in Latinos/Hispanics. Also many Sephardim were crypto-Jews not open about it, and this might have been also true of the Moors who might have ended up in the Americas. Also the Canary Islanders

This might interest you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TIi0maJZQU

forward to 3:03


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiDMP_KJg4

that is more about Mexicans and Mexican-Americans, that history has nothing to do with other Latin Americans who have a different history, for example the Caribbeans with their Canary ancestry, Mexico with Jews/Moors, Peru with Moorish invasion during colonial days, and the list goes on

you cant apply the history of Jews in "hispanics" to all Latin Americans, in that video the "hispanic" part refers more towards mexicans

[Stormer99]

The Middle Eastern ancestry in Spain is East Med more.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

LOW lol

Yes lol I hardly have any.

[Tisibis]

Before the Jews, Moors, and even Phoenicians, West Asian people have been migrating to the Mediterranean for several centuries. This is not easily detected because these migrations took place during the Bronze Age and predate historical records in Iberia and Italy. The Greeks knew of an ancient maritime population that they called the Pelasgians. They were known to have reached Spain before the Greeks and Phoenicians and founded several coastal cities. The Etruscans are probably a subgroup of the Pelasgians, who are also of West Asian character.

When we talk about West Asians we have to split it into 2 groups, the southern (ie. Semitic) and northern (ancient Armenian or Alarodian). The northern population is connected to the one from the southern Caucasus, and split during the expansion of the Early Transcausian Culture (ETC).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J03Y0Hn6roE

A few have hypothesized that one of those ETC groups, such as the Hurrians of northern Mesopotamia, made their way to Spain. Hurrians in Spain (http://www.science-bbs.com/13-archaeology/f0ed1e5520266a80.htm)

They point out the "Hittite" characteristics of cultural remains in Spain, as opposed to the Semitic Phoenician type. Hittite culture was in basic terms an extension of the more ancient Hurrian one. The Spaniards who traveled to the New World would most likely come from the coastal towns that were infused by genetics from those ancestral West Asian/Hurrian areas.